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ande
September 8th, 2009, 11:10 PM
FINA Considers Tinkers To Swimsuit Regulations

Amy Shipley; Washington Post Staff Writer

Just weeks after adopting new rules designed to end the controversy over high-tech, full-body suits, FINA, world swimming's governing body, is having second thoughts and considering tinkering with its swimwear regulations as early as January, several U.S. and international officials said.

Since FINA decided in late July to allow only waist-to-knee textile suits for men and neck-to-knee textile suits for women, the governing body has been under pressure to make men's and women's swimsuits equal in size, the officials said.

"There's an enormous amount of pressure on the FINA Bureau [the 22-member executive leadership board] now to have the body coverage be the same for men as for women," said Chuck Wielgus, USA Swimming's executive director. "We are very concerned that FINA might not stick with what was approved in Rome by the FINA Congress."

USA Swimming had put forth the proposed rule changes that were adopted by a nearly unanimous vote of the congress -- more than 200 member nations of FINA -- before this summer's world championships in Rome, but the national governing bodies for Britain and Australia kicked off a rethinking of the ban just days after the vote, officials said.

Both sent letters to the governing body proposing equal body coverage for men and women.

British Swimming Chief Executive David Sparkes said in an e-mail that the British governing body would take no action beyond the letter it sent, but added, "no doubt this matter will be given further consideration."

Said Swimming Australia spokesman Lachlan Searle: "Swimming Australia had raised with FINA in Rome the possibility of equality for male and female in neck-to-knee coverage in relation to the proposed new swimsuit ruling. However, at this stage we have had no advice from FINA that it has any intention of changing its proposed rule."

A spokesman for FINA said no such proposal was yet on the agenda of the next FINA Bureau meeting, tentatively scheduled for Jan. 15-16 in Bangkok. But the proposal would be added to the agenda if put forward by a FINA committee, and FINA's technical committee plans to consider it in November, according to Carol Zaleski, the chair of the committee.

Zaleski said FINA Executive Director Cornel Marculescu instructed her in an e-mail to add the suit issue to the technical committee's agenda.

"I truly don't understand where Australia and Great Britain are coming from on this," Zaleski said. "Why anyone is having second thoughts afterward I don't quite get. For me, it's common sense: Men's and women's suits have always been different for obvious reasons."

Zaleski said she did not know where the other 14 members of the technical committee stood on the issue.

She and other officials speculated that the coverage issue was less about equality of the sexes than sponsorship concerns -- and the legal ones that tend to arise when sponsors feel threatened.

Sponsor logos are readily visible on suits that extend over the chest, but they can't be seen well -- particularly when swimmers are still in the water -- on the men's waist-to-knee "jammers."

USA Swimming officials say the rules enacted this summer were designed to minimize the impact of suits and put the focus on the swimmer. That, they said, should be sport officials' highest priority.

Since FINA adopted the current ban, the NCAA and National Federation of State High School Associations put similar bans in place. USA Swimming, meantime, planned to formally adopt the ban at its annual meeting in September, setting an immediate implementation date.

September 2, 2009


http://athleticbusiness.com/articles/lexisnexis.aspx?lnarticleid=1032366752&lntopicid=136030023

pwb
September 8th, 2009, 11:21 PM
Let the flip-flopping begin.

I used to think that I didn't watch soap operas, but I'm beginning to rethink that as I watch FINA handle the tech suit fiasco.

Thanks for posting, Ande.

Jim Dolan
September 9th, 2009, 11:21 AM
OK, that's FINA, but ... i'm embarrassed to admit i don't know this, where do we stand w/respect 'the suits' in USMS? following FINA's lead or....?

Mswimming
September 9th, 2009, 11:30 AM
I don't think anyone really knows where the usms stands regarding the suits.

thewookiee
September 9th, 2009, 11:31 AM
OK, that's FINA, but ... i'm embarrassed to admit i don't know this, where do we stand w/respect 'the suits' in USMS? following FINA's lead or....?

USMS hasn't released their official stance on the suit issue yet. They, along with the other masters organization around the world, are waiting to hear from the FINA Masters Tech. before issuing a statement.

Jim Dolan
September 9th, 2009, 11:40 AM
'twere up to me, we'd keep 'em. i love not having to shave anything but me arms....

Peter Cruise
September 9th, 2009, 11:46 AM
What fresh hell is this...

knelson
September 9th, 2009, 11:49 AM
Sponsor logos are readily visible on suits that extend over the chest, but they can't be seen well -- particularly when swimmers are still in the water

They could be if they put the logos across the butt! In all serious, if this is a concern, why not put the logos across the seat?

Jim Dolan
September 9th, 2009, 11:52 AM
i was a USCF cyclist back in the 80s and we routinely had sponsor logos written on the back of shorts just below the waistband...

thewookiee
September 9th, 2009, 11:59 AM
They could be if they put the logos across the butt! In all serious, if this is a concern, why not put the logos across the seat?

I can see it now at major meets, when doing the introductions. The men will have to turn their backs to the camera and bend over to show the logo.

knelson
September 9th, 2009, 12:01 PM
I can see it now at major meets, when doing the introductions. The men will have to turn their backs to the camera and bend over to show the logo.

If the issue is seeing the logo I'd say the rules should be changed to allow a second logo rather than changing the suit coverage.

thewookiee
September 9th, 2009, 12:07 PM
If the issue is seeing the logo I'd say the rules should be changed to allow a second logo rather than changing the suit coverage.

My comment was made in jest at the idea of putting logos on the butt and having the men turn around to the cameras to show their backside.

Dolphin 2
September 9th, 2009, 12:16 PM
The solution for “Putting all the worms back in the can” is for FINA to TIVO back to the 1970s and the rules for suits in effect then will still be in effect today -and for the foreseeable future.

For those who are into the suit technology fad and spent big $$$ on LZRs, etc., that would be the moral equivalent of an asteroid colliding with the earth, but it’s the only solution to a problem that shouldn’t have happened in the first place.

Dolphin 2

Syd
September 9th, 2009, 12:22 PM
What fresh hell is this...

Oh, I couldn't agree more... 我的天哪!:afraid:

knelson
September 9th, 2009, 12:29 PM
My comment was made in jest

I realize that, but I do think there are rules limiting the size and number of logos.

thewookiee
September 9th, 2009, 12:31 PM
I realize that, but I do think there are rules limiting the size and number of logos.

At one time, yes, there did limit the size of logos. Don't know about the number but if you look at some of the logos over the last few years, they do seem to have gotten bigger on the suits.

Rykno
September 9th, 2009, 01:54 PM
USMS hasn't released their official stance on the suit issue yet. They, along with the other masters organization around the world, are waiting to hear from the FINA Masters Tech. before issuing a statement.

This was posted today at 11:47 GMT -1 (my rough translation



before the start of the Europeans championships in Cadiz, the European federadtion, LEN, sent out a clarification about the rules for swimsuits.

- participants at championships for masters kan use which ever swimsuit model they so wish (whether or not it was approved by FINA), since the Duba Charter cover meets for Masters.

- The use of more than one suit is forbidden

- use of wetsuits (defined as suits made of neoprene for the use in sports diving, windsurfing, kayaking and other water sports and that have heat insulation as well as offer lift in the water is forbidden.


basically the european swim federation is allowing the use of all fullbody suits!

nkfrench
September 9th, 2009, 02:28 PM
At one time, yes, there did limit the size of logos. Don't know about the number but if you look at some of the logos over the last few years, they do seem to have gotten bigger on the suits.

Sure, and the logo areas are probably non-permeable ...

YGBKM about the suits issue being raised again.

The Fortress
September 9th, 2009, 03:19 PM
basically the european swim federation is allowing the use of all fullbody suits!

Brilliant!

I don't think tinkering with the coverage is going to cause "hell," is it? Let the guys have their chest coverage. Coverage seems less significant than type of material anyway. I frankly hope FINA allows full body suits for USA swimming, as I hate kneeskins just the way some guys hate jammers.

aquageek
September 9th, 2009, 03:43 PM
I can see it now at major meets, when doing the introductions. The men will have to turn their backs to the camera and bend over to show the logo.

Hair Club for Men would be your logical sponsor, Haircheese.

That Guy
September 9th, 2009, 03:52 PM
They could be if they put the logos across the butt! In all serious, if this is a concern, why not put the logos across the seat?

Back in the day, Fairfield University swimmers had prominent FU logos on the back of their briefs. Don't know if they still do that. Hope they do.

meldyck
September 9th, 2009, 05:08 PM
Back in the day, Fairfield University swimmers had prominent FU logos on the back of their briefs. Don't know if they still do that. Hope they do.

Hmmm. Where I grew up FU usually meant something else...

pwolf66
September 9th, 2009, 05:16 PM
What fresh hell is this...

This be FINA

slowcat
September 9th, 2009, 05:18 PM
I've considered tinkling in my suit a time or two.

ehoch
September 9th, 2009, 05:43 PM
This is great - the big change next year will be "exposing" my calf :applaud:

Get rid of the materials and let the rest be as it was pre LZR...

pwolf66
September 9th, 2009, 05:45 PM
Get rid of the materials and let the rest be as it was pre LZR...

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

geochuck
September 9th, 2009, 07:58 PM
If FINA gets big bucks they will allow out board motors attached to the swim suits. They may regulate the octane content???

thewookiee
September 9th, 2009, 08:32 PM
This is great - the big change next year will be "exposing" my calf :applaud:

Get rid of the materials and let the rest be as it was pre LZR...

Double Amen!

Muppet
September 9th, 2009, 11:52 PM
Since FINA decided in late July to allow only waist-to-knee textile suits for men and neck-to-knee textile suits for women, the governing body has been under pressure to make men's and women's swimsuits equal in size, the officials said.

"There's an enormous amount of pressure on the FINA Bureau [the 22-member executive leadership board] now to have the body coverage be the same for men as for women," said Chuck Wielgus, USA Swimming's executive director. "We are very concerned that FINA might not stick with what was approved in Rome by the FINA Congress."

Thank you - this is what I've been saying all along. :dedhorse:

orca1946
September 10th, 2009, 11:54 AM
Why not jammers & tops for women?

rodent
September 10th, 2009, 03:45 PM
The problem is not with coverage but with fabric that provides flotation. I like chest to knee coverage because I don't have to shave. I am too old to wear less coverage than provided by chest to knee suits. The Pre LZR suit standards, circa 2002, are fine by me.
No polyurethane or other flotation should be permitted.

West
September 10th, 2009, 04:07 PM
I just hope they allow Yingfa suits so I can stop spending too much $$$ on tech suits.

Peter Cruise
September 10th, 2009, 08:17 PM
In case anyone misunderstands, the 'hell' to me is not whether tech suits or not, it is the endless gormless flailing by fina (they don't deserve capitals). A Sartre character in his play 'No Exit' declaimed 'Hell is other people'...naw, it is fina that deserves that slam.

__steve__
September 10th, 2009, 08:21 PM
what?

Allen Stark
September 10th, 2009, 10:36 PM
If they change the rules so that men can have the same covering as women but keep the no zipper rule I believe all the companies will need a new design.Is there any current mens racing suit that covers the chest and does not have a zipper?

geochuck
September 10th, 2009, 11:29 PM
I saw a bunch of male and female swimmers at the BC provincial championships wearing neck to knee suits no zippers.

Stevepowell
September 11th, 2009, 10:31 AM
Back in the day, Fairfield University swimmers had prominent FU logos on the back of their briefs. Don't know if they still do that. Hope they do.


Don't forget the South Carolina Gamecocks!:D:D

http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/9/9/23/f_gococksm_ea5f9fa.jpg

jim thornton
September 11th, 2009, 12:01 PM
In case anyone misunderstands, the 'hell' to me is not whether tech suits or not, it is the endless gormless flailing by fina (they don't deserve capitals). A Sartre character in his play 'No Exit' declaimed 'Hell is other people'...naw, it is fina that deserves that slam.

Mr. Cruise, you are a magnificent educator!

1) I always thought it was Woody Allen or Emily Dickinson or perhaps a love child of the two who said "L'enfer, c'est les autres"--but it was not! As you correctly pointed out, it was the author of Nausea himself.

2) you have introduced a magnificent new word to the USMS lexicon: gormless, which at first I suspected was a typo. Not so!

gormless (comparative (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#comparable) more gormless, superlative (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#comparable) most gormless)
Positive
gormless

Comparative (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#comparable)
more gormless

Superlative (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#comparable)
most gormless



(chiefly British (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/British_English), of a person) Lacking intelligence (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/intelligence), sense (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sense) or discernment (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/discernment), often implying lack (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lack) of capacity (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/capacity) of will (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/will) to remedy (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/remedy) the condition (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/condition).
(British (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/British_English)) Inexperienced (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/inexperienced), naďve (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/na%C3%AFve), innocent (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/innocent) to the point of foolishness (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/foolishness).


Thanks for making me feel gormless in my previously pseudo-intellectualism. Now that I know what gormless means and who said hell was other people, I have taken one giant step towards becoming less gormless, then lessor gormless, then least gormless, then peri-intellectualism--with my ultimate goal, of course, to someday be compared favorably to one absolutely ungormless Mr. Peter Cruise, a true and unmitigated intellectual!

jim thornton
September 11th, 2009, 12:08 PM
If they change the rules so that men can have the same covering as women but keep the no zipper rule I believe all the companies will need a new design.Is there any current mens racing suit that covers the chest and does not have a zipper?

I suggest a one-shoulder-strapped body suit, not unlike the cave man clothing caricature. This would allow us quasi fatsos to easily don the thing, though it might expose one breast depending on the acuteness of the diagonal angle.

Perhaps Speedo could include a complimentary club with which we might bean women swimmers and drag them back to our lairs?

gull
September 11th, 2009, 02:20 PM
Here's a zipperless suit on Johnny Weissmuller at the 1924 Olympics.

jim thornton
September 11th, 2009, 02:22 PM
Here's a zipperless suit on Johnny Weissmuller at the 1924 Olympics.


Do we need to wear the codpiece, too?

geochuck
September 11th, 2009, 02:39 PM
Are they going to put * beside his Olympic swims???

stillwater
September 11th, 2009, 06:01 PM
Why the beef?

Weissmuller's suit is still legal for masters.

geochuck
September 11th, 2009, 06:19 PM
No Beef but latest from FINA says at the momment men can only wear waist to knee but they may change the rule. I was wondering if they make that change will they take Johnny's gold away for using a high tech neck to hip suit. It is just - if it happens what will the end result be.

orca1946
September 11th, 2009, 07:26 PM
How can they say waist ti knee for men ,but allow women to neck?

geochuck
September 11th, 2009, 07:57 PM
They made such a bad job by allowing the rubber suits in the first place they are scrambling to fix their mistakes. I think we will be back to Nylon or Nylon/Lycra our poly suits only.

Chris Stevenson
September 11th, 2009, 11:02 PM
How can they say waist to knee for men ,but allow women to neck?

Probably because they feel that the purpose of a swimsuit is for modesty reasons, not performance-enhancement (I believe the revised rule says as much but I can't find it right now). How quaint.