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Mookie
September 20th, 2009, 12:26 PM
How in the world do you approach the wall on the right side of the lane, flip, and depart on the other side without running into someone?

Up to this point, I guess have led a fairly charmed Masters Swimming life. On all the teams I've swum with, it was rare to circle swim. No more! I'm now swimming LCM with half a dozen others sharing the lane, which is great, but I can't flip turn now to save my life.

Normally, I come straight into the wall, flip straight over onto my back, come straight off the wall, and roll over in the streamline. That won't cut it in circle swim. How do you do it? I have to either lead the lane, and sneak over to the left coming into the wall, or go last and stay on the right.

What's the technique?

nyswimmer
September 20th, 2009, 01:12 PM
I wish I knew :dunno:

I'm unattached, so I do all my workouts on my own in a public lap swim, where I can't even be sure the other swimmers would even realize I'm going to flip turn and I can't predict where'll they'll be when (and if) I do.

I just do open turns when the pool is crowded and save the flips for when I have plenty of room (say, if no one else is in the lane).

Nopt the answer you're looking for, I know.

funkyfish
September 20th, 2009, 02:12 PM
Occasionally there will be some USS kids swimming in the pool that I go to, and they share a lane when they swim. In watching them swim, specifically turns, they tumble into the wall on the right side, and as they push off they do so to their right (at an angle) to the left. Not really an answer, but an observation.

I always had problems doing this (which is probably why I seldom did flip turns when I was younger and swam with a team). I'm sure it's a practice issue and can be learned with perseverance; I'm fortunate enough that at worse, I've only had to split a lane with one other swimmer, and we both pick a side and go because of the differing swim speeds.
:bliss:

Bobinator
September 20th, 2009, 02:46 PM
If you group yourself in a lane with people of the same speed and everyone waits 5 seconds (at least) between each swimmer it can work.
If the person behind you takes off on your feet and they're your speed you will hit them.
I just try and swim with the same people each practice. :applaud:

orca1946
September 20th, 2009, 02:50 PM
Go a little off to the rt to start the flip, then as you push off angle to the other side of the lane. One of the lane "secrets" is to leave enough room for the swimmer ahead of you to complete the turn before you enter.

stillwater
September 20th, 2009, 03:59 PM
You will figure it out.

Creep to the side you want to exit, and angle off on the push-off if you aren't able to go over far enough.

When I'm tired I find myself tangled up due to the fact that I'm twisting one way when I'm used to twisting the other. Kind of like bilateral breathing but different.

My problems come when I'm on sombody's heels and someone is on my heels, and we are swimming at a high intensity.

After a swimwreck most just say, "I'm sorry".

geminidragonizer
September 20th, 2009, 05:46 PM
After once going face-first into a teammate, I learned how to do avoid another crash.

Peek after doing a flip turn to see where the next guy is, angle, and finish off of the wall a little deeper than usual. It ain't pretty, but it works.

gobears
September 20th, 2009, 06:35 PM
If you leave at least five seconds apart (and are spaced properly so that you aren't then on someone's feet), you can swim toward the middle or even left of the lane after the flags as you approach the wall, then flip straight off. Trying to flip on the right and then streamline over to the correct side of the lane will likely cause a collision.

rtodd
September 20th, 2009, 07:43 PM
I can tell you I struggle with this since I don't normally share a lane and then I occasionally swim where I do. After I flip I roll clockwise which I think makes it harder than rolling the other way which should take you to the right of the lane. As a coach I would always teach the flip turn the way which makes circling easier.

Mookie
September 20th, 2009, 08:59 PM
I've tried all the sneaking over stuff and often there isn't enough room. I guess I should try to roll a little left instead of straight over? That should be entertaining; I normally have to fight rolling right. That has the disadvantage of rolling straight into oncoming traffic. My Mom says I was a lefty when I was little, but back then it was standard to beat it out of you. Maybe I can nurture the lost Lefty within.

cheakamus
September 20th, 2009, 09:40 PM
I learned to do flip turns only this year (age 58). Now I feel like I've been doing them all my life! In my masters' team, we always circle swim with a five-second delay between swimmers. I found when I was first starting that I did okay as long as there were only two or three people in the lane. Any more than that and I would get too nervous to concentrate and would then revert to open turns. After a couple of months, however, I learned to relax and not worry, especially about the person coming after me (they can see meI can't see them). I usually try to hit the wall dead center, turning slightly inward after the 5-yard marker and heading slightly outward after I kick off. That keeps me close to the lane ropes both coming and going.

Georgio
September 20th, 2009, 10:13 PM
I see others and sometimes find myself flipping and pushing off the wall diagonally underneath an approaching swimmer to the return side.

Muppet
September 21st, 2009, 12:00 PM
I usually try to hit the wall dead center, turning slightly inward after the 5-yard marker and heading slightly outward after I kick off. That keeps me close to the lane ropes both coming and going.

On our team, we try to go 10 seconds apart unless we've got a lot of people in a lane. This gives folks plenty of room to do a proper flip turn with the minimal amount of angling. As described above is generally how we do it.
One thing to note, however, that in all this, it is VERY easy for a swimmer to get used to this and start circling during pool races and swim at a slight angle generally (which comes in particularly unuseful during open water races). On top of that, it also contributes to pushing off the wall at strange angles. Be mindful of trying to keep your proper technique.
As mentioned above, the 10 seconds we have between swimmers on my team allows us to turn in early, hit the wall head on and push off straight without compromising our technique.

srcoyote
September 21st, 2009, 02:26 PM
I've tried all the sneaking over stuff and often there isn't enough room. I guess I should try to roll a little left instead of straight over? That should be entertaining; I normally have to fight rolling right. That has the disadvantage of rolling straight into oncoming traffic. My Mom says I was a lefty when I was little, but back then it was standard to beat it out of you. Maybe I can nurture the lost Lefty within.

This is probably your best bet. I'm a righty, but I have always rolled to the left probably as a natural effect of circle swimming all through my age group days. Will take some work, I'm guessing. I'm not sure I could even roll to the right off of a turn.

JHUSF
September 21st, 2009, 02:42 PM
One thing to note, however, that in all this, it is VERY easy for a swimmer to get used to this and start circling during pool races and swim at a slight angle generally (which comes in particularly unuseful during open water races). On top of that, it also contributes to pushing off the wall at strange angles. Be mindful of trying to keep your proper technique.

So very true... 15 years+ of angling in before the turn and angling out on the pushoff makes me circle swim even in races where I have the lane all to myself!

pwolf66
September 21st, 2009, 04:00 PM
This is probably your best bet. I'm a righty, but I have always rolled to the left probably as a natural effect of circle swimming all through my age group days. Will take some work, I'm guessing. I'm not sure I could even roll to the right off of a turn.

It's why we reverse circle at least one practice per week with our age group team. Which reminds me, gotta hit em with the first one, which causes ALL sorts of problems the first time.

knelson
September 21st, 2009, 04:12 PM
I usually try to hit the wall dead center

This is my strategy, too. Turn at the center of the lane and angle off toward the lane line when pushing off. I can't recall the last time I came close to colliding with someone coming into the turn when I was coming out. I do, however, often impact the lane line with my right shoulder at my breakout.

ehoch
September 21st, 2009, 06:20 PM
I am not sure why there is such a mystery -- the flip is done exactly in the middle of the lane - you come in on the right and go towards the middle on your last couple of strokes. Then you push off a little bit at an angle. I have never hit anybody who does it the same way.

The only problem are the "strange creatures" who turn way on the right and then try to make a dare devil cross-lane push-off - they have to be educated.

nyswimmer
September 21st, 2009, 06:24 PM
[quote=ehoch;194393
The only problem are the "strange creatures" who turn way on the right and then try to make a dare devil cross-lane push-off - they have to be educated.[/quote]

Well, yeah. The problem, especially in a public lap swim, is that there are lots of those creatures.

orca1946
September 22nd, 2009, 11:40 AM
The more seasoned a swimmer , the easier the lane use will be. It's the newer swimmers that need to learn this.

Rykno
September 22nd, 2009, 12:51 PM
even with only 2-3 secs between swimmers as you approach the wall, with your last 1-2 strokes you move to the left, and flip. your feet either land in themiddle or to the left of the middle. and push of to your new right leaving the lane clear for the next swimmer.

I have never had a problem with flip turns at practice.

two people swimming fly in opposite directions however is a problem

rtodd
September 26th, 2009, 10:44 AM
I've seen 6 in a lane all swimming fly on a college team. They all seamed to have an uncanny ability to avoid each other.

No one is mentioning how to roll. I roll the "wrong way" which makes circling more difficult. I rarely circle swim so when I join other workouts, so I struggle a bit if someone is right behind me.

EricOrca
September 27th, 2009, 10:42 PM
I usually dread this scenario as I have to hold my breath longer off the wall: I flip, as my feet touch (hands have connected above my head) I begin rotation to my left, then go deep into my sdk, usually if someone is right behind me, I'm going under them, sort of. If not then I'm doing what I'm suppose to be doing anyways...

aztimm
September 28th, 2009, 11:54 AM
I only learned flip turns in my early 20s, but I guess I've been swimming with teams so long I don't even think about circling and flipping. Not having to circle is a luxury I get to experience just a few times a year. The key is to be at least 5 sec apart, and be ordered from fastest to slowest. I go into the wall almost dead center, maybe a hair to the left, and push out a little to my right.

Problems are: people who don't go 5 sex apart, sandbaggers, and people who go into the wall to the right.