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Walt Reid
October 19th, 2009, 02:43 PM
Just a reminder that as of Sept 23, 2009 the "distance" Relay Events for Long and Short Course Meters are eligible for FINA Masters World Records. These events include the 400 Free, 400 Medley and 800 Free for Men, Women and Mixed. Standard World Record documentation is required.

Rykno
October 20th, 2009, 04:16 AM
nice, now the hard part, finding a masters meet that offers those events. in my 3 years of swimming masters I've only ever seen the 4x50 medley and free relays.

Glenn
October 20th, 2009, 09:53 AM
Come to Long Beach, California, December 4,5,6, that meet always has the 400 and 800 relalys. It was also the site of the '68 (and maybe one other) US Olympic trials. It is also one of two SCM meets in the US that can be considered a quasi- national championship meet (as you know, we don't have a SCM national championship meet).

ande
October 20th, 2009, 10:52 AM
Walt,

Do relays have to be done after 9/23/09 or will relay times done earlier count?

ie I swam on the Men's 160 - 199 SCM 400 Medley Relay National record of 3:50.93* on 11-15-08
Will it count or do we need to swim it again at another meet?

Ande

Walt Reid
October 20th, 2009, 12:10 PM
Yes, the swims must be done after the Sept 23 2009 date.

Betsy
October 20th, 2009, 05:45 PM
We have all relays at the meet in VA Beach on Nov 7.
Entry is at www.vaswim.org

orca1946
October 20th, 2009, 06:14 PM
At the Elgin Blue Waves meet in Elgin, Il - we had the long relays for just this reason last year.

Ahelee Sue Osborn
October 20th, 2009, 07:30 PM
Yes, the swims must be done after the Sept 23 2009 date.

So we'll just have to see how our U.S. National Records stand up to the FINA World Records...

Now I bet some of you wish you had stayed or come to play with us on relay day in Indy!!

mattson
October 20th, 2009, 08:01 PM
Now I bet some of you wish you had stayed or come to play with us on relay day in Indy!!

Except Indy was before Sept 23rd. ;)

ehoch
October 23rd, 2009, 07:16 PM
How will they determine the first records ? The fastest time at the end of the season ?

ourswimmer
October 23rd, 2009, 08:34 PM
How will they determine the first records ? The fastest time at the end of the season ?

My sources say first win after 9/23/09 in an age group = first record. These same sources have recently asked for my birth certificate or passport. :lmao:

Seeing as how your UCLA meet this coming weekend does not seem to offer a 4 x 200m relay, my World Record Holder status, if confirmed, may last all the way into November.

swim53
October 24th, 2009, 03:03 PM
The second weekend in December, both Hudson, OH and Columbia, MO have SCM meets that include longer relays. :applaud:

geochuck
October 25th, 2009, 09:19 AM
What Kind of swim suits are going to be worn???

Were their previous records made with swimmers wearing full length suits??? If there were records for these events are they going to be thrown into file 13???

Glenn
October 25th, 2009, 06:52 PM
Geochuck,

The only World Records for relays in Masters up until now were 200 meter SC & LC. Now (after Sept 23) FINA will recognize 400 free and medley relays and the 800 free relay for masters!

Since "tech" suits are OK until January, I suspect records will be set with them........and will be broken at some point, probably without them.

ehoch
October 25th, 2009, 08:50 PM
This seems like a little bit of a lazy way to do it ....

So you can swim a world record and be far off the USMS record ?

Not sure which other countries keep track like USMS - but at least, they should have used the USMS record as a "time to beat" to get a world record and if nobody does - just don't have a world record for that event.

Gail Roper
October 26th, 2009, 12:31 PM
FINA applications for World Records and World topten close November 1st Times sent in after that won't get submitted until May 1st. Maybe Walt can ask FINA to extend the deadline to Jan. 1st.

Walt Reid
October 26th, 2009, 01:25 PM
The FINA Masters World Records are updated as they are approved. A complete list of the approved records since 1985 for all events can be found at FINA.ORG under Masters under Records then select "Check the World Records Online" (http://www.fina.org/database/main/records.php).

Twice a year we take a snapshot of the "current" records from this database for publishing in the "FINA Aquatics World" (May 1 and Nov 1) and in the USMS Rule Book (Nov 1). Also, this published list (May 1 and Nov 1) is used to determing who should get a FINA Masters World Record Certificate for breaking the "published" record.

Gail Roper
October 26th, 2009, 03:35 PM
Thanks for the information Walt. There are medley relays scheduled on Oct. 31 at IUPU at the GRIN classic, also the free relays on Nov. 1. Are these times going to be eligible for the Nov. 1 deadline?

Gail Roper
October 27th, 2009, 11:43 AM
Walt, why can't you take a "snapshot" after all the USMS SCM close?

jroddin
October 27th, 2009, 11:50 AM
Walt, why can't you take a "snapshot" after all the USMS SCM close?

It's not my business to respond, but I'll take a stab: because FINA doesn't revolve around USMS!! If we (USMS) are unhappy with the timing of the FINA release of records, then USMS should alter their season. Not the inverse.

Gail Roper
October 27th, 2009, 12:00 PM
I agree, but USMS is steadfast in holding a "short course meters season" that goes until Dec. 31st. Why can't USMS get aligned with the rest of the world? Trying to swim a meet around Thanksgiving and Christmas is difficult.

ande
October 27th, 2009, 02:24 PM
here's where you can look up National Relay Records

http://www.usms.org/comp/records.php?slt=a&ri=r

some are soft, some are difficult

ehoch
December 8th, 2009, 10:22 PM
Follow Up question on this - how is this going to work - trying to get the right info to my swimmers ?

1) Is it true that relays with swimmers below age 25 are not allowed for FINA records - even if the combined age is 120+ or so (I am guessing because FINA does not recognize them as Masters swimmers) ???? Which would have been good to know prior to this weekend .....

2) Who will get FINA certificates ? IF there was no existing record - will everybody who completed the relay get a FINA certificate ? If there was a record, will every team who broke the record get a certificate ?

jim clemmons
December 8th, 2009, 10:56 PM
Follow Up question on this - how is this going to work - trying to get the right info to my swimmers ?

1) Is it true that relays with swimmers below age 25 are not allowed for FINA records - even if the combined age is 120+ or so (I am guessing because FINA does not recognize them as Masters swimmers) ???? Which would have been good to know prior to this weekend .....

2) Who will get FINA certificates ? IF there was no existing record - will everybody who completed the relay get a FINA certificate ? If there was a record, will every team who broke the record get a certificate ?

Erik,
I can only throw out an answer to question #1. Relays with swimmers less than 25 years old are not qualified to hold any FINA record, period, end of story. I believe it happened to a couple of the relays at the NorCal champs, they won the event, had 18-20somethings (< 25yo) but the second place teams (or third, maybe) got the WR 'cause they were all 25+.

Walt Reid
December 9th, 2009, 10:56 AM
FINA does not recognize any swimmer under age 25. This is not just for the new relay events. All relays submitted for FINA Top10 and Records must have all swimmers 25 and older.

As for the FINA Record Certificates and the new distance relays, only teams that become record holders will get certificates. This is different than the policy on individual events and the 200 m. distance relays where "record breakers" get certificates. With the distance relays there was no record to break so the FINA Masters Committee agreed with my proposal to only give certificates to record holders. This means that I wait 60 days after the swim to submit the request for certificates just to make sure no one has done it faster.

Walt Reid
FINA Masters Recorder