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ehoch
November 4th, 2009, 10:22 PM
I am guessing this will be the fastest of the Masters SCM meets. Who is coming to town ? Who is ready to suit up one last time ?



Friday, December 4, 2009

Warm-up 8:00 a.m., Meet starts at 9:00 a.m.

Check in for 1500 m Freestyle closes at 8:30 a.m.



1. 1500 m Freestyle (Women, Men)

2. Womenís 200 m Individual Medley

3. Menís 200 m Individual Medley

4. Womenís 100 m Freestyle

5. Menís 100 m Freestyle

6. Womenís 200 m Backstroke

7. Menís 200 m Backstroke

8. *800 m Freestyle Relay* (Women, Men, Mixed)



Saturday, December 5, 2009

Warm-up at 8:00 a.m., Meet starts at 9:00 a.m.

Check in for the 400 m Freestyle closes at 8:30 a.m.



9. Womenís 400 m Freestyle

10. Menís 400 m Freestyle

11. Womenís 50 m Butterfly

12. Menís 50 m Butterfly

13. 400m Freestyle Relay (Women, Men, Mixed)

14. Womenís 100 m Backstroke

15. Menís 100 m Backstroke

16. Womenís 100 m Breaststroke

17. Menís 100 Breaststroke

18. Womenís 200 m Butterfly

19. Menís 200 m Butterfly

20. *200 m Medley Relay* (Women, Men, Mixed)

21. Womenís 50 m Freestyle

22. Menís 50 m Freestyle

23. 400 m Individual Medley (Women, Men)



Sunday, December 6, 2009

Warm-up at 8:00 a.m., Meet starts at 9:00 a.m.

Check in for the 800 m Freestyle closes at 8:30 a.m.



24. 800 m Freestyle (Women, Men)

25. Womenís 100 m Butterfly

26. Menís 100 m Butterfly

27. Womenís 50 m Breaststroke

28. Menís 50 m Breaststroke

29. 400m Medley Relay (Women, Men, Mixed)

30. Womenís 200 m Freestyle

31. Menís 200 m Freestyle

32. Womenís 200 m Breaststroke

33. Menís 200 m Breaststroke

34. Womenís 50 m Backstroke

35. Menís 50 m Backstroke

36. Womenís 100 m Individual Medley

37. Menís 100 m Individual Medley

38. 200 m Freestyle Relay (Women, Men, Mixed)

The Fortress
November 4th, 2009, 10:30 PM
I am guessing this will be the fastest of the Masters SCM meets. Who is coming to town ? Who is ready to suit up one last time ?


Argh, everyone always says that! It is NOT the National SCM championships. And I assure you there will be some fast swimming on the east coast as well. Yes, LB may be the biggest meet, but not the fastest across the board. :-P And I'm definitely not crazy about that order of events, though at least you have 3 days to spread it out.

That said, good luck to all!

I'm sure everyone will be wearing their tech suits.

Allen Stark
November 4th, 2009, 11:16 PM
I'll be there and if my Jaked doesn't rip I'll finally be able to swim in it.

pwb
November 5th, 2009, 03:20 AM
Alas, another year, another missed Long Beach meet. Last year I got so far as to enter and I thought I would be able to make it. This year, not even that level of optimism.:badday:

Ahelee Sue Osborn
November 5th, 2009, 09:41 AM
Argh, everyone always says that! It is NOT the National SCM championships. And I assure you there will be some fast swimming on the east coast as well. Yes, LB may be the biggest meet, but not the fastest across the board. :-P And I'm definitely not crazy about that order of events, though at least you have 3 days to spread it out.
That said, good luck to all!
I'm sure everyone will be wearing their tech suits.

Right Fort... it isn't the national championships.
But we since we (USMS) do not see fit to host a SCM Nationals, it seems that Long Beach is the largest representation of such a meet in the USA.
This subject has been discussed already and just perhaps not resolved.

The Grunions do an amazing job with this event.
But every year the threat of facility shutdown creates talk of "what about and where next year?"

I think it would be GREAT for another venue anywhere to host the SCM Championship event.
Hype it up and get the numbers like Long Beach does each year!
Any meet director will tell you its tough going though at this time of year.
Long Beach gets numbers!

Personally, I do not get why we (USMS) continue to insist on holding the SCY Nationals as the premier event each year.

No one in the world gets SC Yard times except for Americans.

I was just watching a race clip from Clovis where the race announcer screamed, "A NEW World Record! Oh I mean, new National Record"...

SHEEZ!!

Probably not in my lifetime, but I hope some day the powers that be will see the light and switch it.

National Spring Championship meet - short course meters - just like the rest of the world.
The training for SCM & SCY is no different and it certainly could be done.
Perhaps allowing extra pool time at warmup or the day before the meet starts so athletes can familiarize themselves with the pool.


SO READERS - if you are not going to Long Beach...
WHERE are you swimming SCM fast times?

For now we race virtually - USMS & FINA TOP TEN BABY!

chowmi
November 5th, 2009, 10:06 AM
There is no where left to hide! Fast swims in all age groups, all the way down to #10 in top tens and beyond!!! I agree with Fort - there are several flagship SCM meets across the USA to go to, and great racing in any one of them!!

Boo hoo - I can't come to the Ron John in AZ this year. That's my #1 choice for the SCM 2 day format meets!

ourswimmer
November 5th, 2009, 10:19 AM
Six or eight Manatees are planning to be there, dressed in sleek black and aiming for SPMA high point towels!

Ahelee Sue Osborn
November 5th, 2009, 10:28 AM
the Ron John in AZ this year. That's my #1 choice for the SCM 2 day format meets!

Agree about the Ron Johnson Invitational Michelle!
Some won't agree since it isn't indoors though.
Last year the weather was perfect in Tempe.
AZ hosts some great meets - and certainly some could be revised to a 3 day format.

I think there could be more SCM meets offered, but the winter weather across the nation limits when pool are outdoors.

The Fortress
November 5th, 2009, 10:30 AM
Right Fort... it isn't the national championships.
But we since we (USMS) do not see fit to host a SCM Nationals, it seems that Long Beach is the largest representation of such a meet in the USA.
This subject has been discussed already and just perhaps not resolved.

The Grunions do an amazing job with this event.
But every year the threat of facility shutdown creates talk of "what about and where next year?"

I think it would be GREAT for another venue anywhere to host the SCM Championship event.
Hype it up and get the numbers like Long Beach does each year!
Any meet director will tell you its tough going though at this time of year.
Long Beach gets numbers!

Personally, I do not get why we (USMS) continue to insist on holding the SCY Nationals as the premier event each year.

No one in the world gets SC Yard times except for Americans.

I was just watching a race clip from Clovis where the race announcer screamed, "A NEW World Record! Oh I mean, new National Record"...

SHEEZ!!

Probably not in my lifetime, but I hope some day the powers that be will see the light and switch it.

National Spring Championship meet - short course meters - just like the rest of the world.
The training for SCM & SCY is no different and it certainly could be done.
Perhaps allowing extra pool time at warmup or the day before the meet starts so athletes can familiarize themselves with the pool.


SO READERS - if you are not going to Long Beach...
WHERE are you swimming SCM fast times?

For now we race virtually - USMS & FINA TOP TEN BABY!

Hahaha!

I get that it's a big fast meet. But you CA types sometimes forget that swimming occurs in other parts of the country. Now, to be sure, SCM meets rarely occur in this part of the country, and unfortunately we are at a severe disadvantage in that respect. In PV (one of the largest LMSCs) this fall, there are ZERO SCM meets. There was some thought to having a one day SCM meet over Thanksgiving weekend. Nope, it was changed to yards.

Totally agree -- I would love to see our Nationals Champs be in SCM instead of SCY. I had no sentimental attachment to SCY, just as I have no sentimental attachment to the old suits.

I'll be swimming at the NE Champs in Boston in mid Dec. in a 2 day format. I understand Chris Stevenson and Mike Ross will also be there. I'm betting no one goes faster than them at Long Beach. :-P :-P Well, maybe ehoch in free, but it'll be close!

JimRude
November 5th, 2009, 10:45 AM
SPMA Regionals -who is ready to swim fast ... ... not me. SCM comes too soon after my looooong summer break.

I shall re-emerge in Atlanta. So to speak.

Luctor et emergo.

Allen Stark
November 5th, 2009, 10:57 AM
There are fast swimmers all over the country,unfortunately there are not big meets in fast pools for SCM all over the country(our LMSC didn't get any bids for Zones this year.)I'd love the idea of Spring Nats as a SCM Meet(now that we are calling it that instead of SCY Nats we could have it SCM and not even change the name.)In 1989 There was the Pan Pacific Masters Championships held in Indy as a SCM meet.The record book was totally rewritten.Twice I broke the WR and finished 3rd.There are more good SCM meets now than then,but a National SCM meet would be full of records and fast swims.
Until then we just need a SCM gridge.So who is calling who out.(It doesn't matter for me as my nemesis will be at SPMA anyway.)

ehoch
November 5th, 2009, 11:52 AM
Aren't we a little "touchy" on the Fastest meet comment . Did not intend to diminish the fast swimming at other meets. There are always fast meets all across the country - even Long Course Nationals did not have the fastest swims across the board in all age groups - that is a given.

Having said that, I would be glad to total the number of records in Long Beach and compare to any other meet - last year there were over 30 world records :applaud: and I expect more than that this year.

I wish, I could race Mike Ross in the Free - I guess we will have to continue our virtual racing for now .... Can't race Chris Stevenson, he cheats in the backstroke - he does these strange dolphin kicks in backstroke, that seems like cheating to me :)

pwolf66
November 5th, 2009, 12:12 PM
Can't race Chris Stevenson, he cheats in the backstroke - he does these strange dolphin kicks in backstroke, that seems like cheating to me :)

Mike Ross does the same thing in Free.

knelson
November 5th, 2009, 12:24 PM
Alas, another year, another missed Long Beach meet.

Same here. I just don't think my training has been good enough this fall to justify a meet I'd have to fly to (even though flights to Long Beach were really cheap from SEA when I checked!). I'll be doing a SCM meet here in Washington on November 22nd, but I'll be very interested to see the results from the Long Beach meet. Good luck to all those who will be swimming!

Chris Stevenson
November 5th, 2009, 01:37 PM
Personally, I do not get why we (USMS) continue to insist on holding the SCY Nationals as the premier event each year.

No one in the world gets SC Yard times except for Americans.

Probably not in my lifetime, but I hope some day the powers that be will see the light and switch it.

National Spring Championship meet - short course meters - just like the rest of the world.
The training for SCM & SCY is no different and it certainly could be done.
Perhaps allowing extra pool time at warmup or the day before the meet starts so athletes can familiarize themselves with the pool.

Don't be blaming TPTB: our current rule book already says that Spring nationals can be SCY or SCM:

"104.1 Meet Categories
USMS national championship meets shall be awarded in the following categories and
held during the following dates:
104.1.1 Short Course (25 Yards or 25 Meters)—Between April 15 and May 31."

Perhaps Jeff Roddin or someone else from the Championship Committee could comment further, but I suspect one big reason Spring nationals is always SCY is that there probably aren't that many facilities in the country that have two 8-lane SCM competition pools and another warm-down pool for 2000 competitors. (I think I heard that it was SCM one year, though.)

If there IS such a place, they absolutely should apply to have Spring nationals there. It would be so cool.

Although it will be fun to race Mike in person and Erik virtually, I'm not swimming any freestyle events. And thankfully I have aged out of that cut-throat age group, although 45-49 is awfully fast, too...

thewookiee
November 5th, 2009, 02:28 PM
Don't be blaming TPTB: our current rule book already says that Spring nationals can be SCY or SCM:

"104.1 Meet Categories
USMS national championship meets shall be awarded in the following categories and
held during the following dates:
104.1.1 Short Course (25 Yards or 25 Meters)óBetween April 15 and May 31."


If there IS such a place, they absolutely should apply to have Spring nationals there. It would be so cool.

...

Well, Atlanta could be a SCM nationals. If they put the bulkheads together in the middle of the pool, then there are 2-25 meter courses. The diving well and the lap pool next door could be used as a warm-up/warm-down pool.

Indy could as well.

Chris Stevenson
November 5th, 2009, 02:35 PM
Well, Atlanta could be a SCM nationals. If they put the bulkheads together in the middle of the pool, then there are 2-25 meter courses. The diving well and the lap pool next door could be used as a warm-up/warm-down pool.

Indy could as well.

If a place like Atlanta had bid for nationals as a SCM arena, I wonder if it would affect attendence (and hence their bottom line)?

thewookiee
November 5th, 2009, 02:40 PM
If a place like Atlanta had bid for nationals as a SCM arena, I wonder if it would affect attendence (and hence their bottom line)?

Don't know. I wonder if attendence would be better if the short course and long course nationals weren't so close together?

Would attendence be greater if the short course nationals were swum in scm in late November/early Dec. and long course moved late june/early August?

The Fortress
November 5th, 2009, 02:46 PM
Aren't we a little "touchy" on the Fastest meet comment.

I wish, I could race Mike Ross in the Free - I guess we will have to continue our virtual racing for now .... Can't race Chris Stevenson, he cheats in the backstroke - he does these strange dolphin kicks in backstroke, that seems like cheating to me :)

Not touchy, just busting your chops. :) The Clovis meet didn't seem much like a true Nationals to me either.

In my book, strange is good.

Do you think the competitive types that attend Nationals would really be put off by it being SCM?

SCY and LCM Nats, IMO, are too close together -- agree with Wookiee. Going to both is a non-starter for me.

Speedo
November 5th, 2009, 03:01 PM
The Clovis meet didn't seem much like a true Nationals to me either.
I found better competition at Clovis than I would have at either Texas or Indy Nats, but that may just be my age group. I would have placed top 5 in all four of my events at Indy, but didn't crack the top 10 in any except the 200 free at Clovis. And at Clovis, Josh Davis didn't even show and ehoch had aged up...

swim53
November 5th, 2009, 03:54 PM
I traditionally watch the SCM times come in every Dec. and see lots of fast ones from the East Coast. Sometimes I look at the Top Times (now called Event Rankings) and watch the list change quickly in every age group, though I know the list is not official at all.

Indy just held a Tyr Grand Prix Masters (SCM) meet with a decent turn out and some World Records. The good thing about it was that any "distance" relays swum on Oct 31 could be submitted for the first-ever World Records, which I gather have a publishing cut-off of Nov 1 (next cut-off to be May 1, 2110).:applaud:

NKMD
November 5th, 2009, 03:54 PM
The Great Lakes Zone SCM Championships-TYR Grand Prix will be the same weekend at the Univ of Chicago. (The pool that hosted the Gay Games).
This is a newer facility. Master's swimmers were the architect, steel builder company, locker room contributor and window contributor.

It is a two day format.

For more information: http://www.tyrgrandprix.com/

http://www.tyrgrandprix.com/files/2009/2009%20TYR%20Grand%20Prix%20-%20Chicago.pdf

swim53
November 5th, 2009, 03:55 PM
Whoops....I mean May 1, 2010

qbrain
November 5th, 2009, 04:32 PM
The Great Lakes Zone SCM Championships-TYR Grand Prix will be the same weekend at the Univ of Chicago. (The pool that hosted the Gay Games).
This is a newer facility. Master's swimmers were the architect, steel builder company, locker room contributor and window contributor.

It is a two day format.

For more information: http://www.tyrgrandprix.com/

http://www.tyrgrandprix.com/files/2009/2009%20TYR%20Grand%20Prix%20-%20Chicago.pdf

That looks like a nice pool (Chicago).

ehoch
November 5th, 2009, 06:40 PM
Of course one of the main reasons I like the Regional meet is the seeding by time, rather than age group - but I believe that has been covered.

We should just go by the Major Sports in the US - swim the spring meet short course meters and simply call it the World Championship..

I don't think attendance would suffer by going meters - we should have it meters every 3 or 4 years.

Gail Roper
November 5th, 2009, 07:36 PM
At Indy last weekend, someone told me (no names) that the reason they don't have SCM in the spring because all the swimmers that have birthdays in the summer and fall would move up into their age-group for the spring meet.

ande
November 5th, 2009, 08:48 PM
I'm looking forward to it
several longhorn masters team mates will be there

jim clemmons
November 5th, 2009, 11:10 PM
... And I'm definitely not crazy about that order of events, though at least you have 3 days to spread it out.


Wasamatta you:bump: - 50 back too close to the 200 breast for you?

knelson
November 6th, 2009, 01:39 AM
Wasamatta you:bump: - 50 back too close to the 200 breast for you?

Maybe you've heard the expression "Manny being Manny" in reference to Manny Ramirez? I think this is a case of "Fortress being Fortress." :)

Chris Stevenson
November 6th, 2009, 06:24 AM
Maybe you've heard the expression "Manny being Manny" in reference to Manny Ramirez? I think this is a case of "Fortress being Fortress." :)

Fort is expanding her repertoire: if I'm reading this correctly, I do believe she's unhappy about the order of events in a meet in which she isn't even swimming. :)

Some magical day, Fortress will declare herself happy (or at least satisfied) with the order of events in a zones or national championship meet. That may be, in fact, the end of days predicted by Mayans long ago...

thewookiee
November 6th, 2009, 07:51 AM
Some magical day, Fortress will declare herself happy (or at least satisfied) with the order of events in a zones or national championship meet. That may be, in fact, the end of days predicted by Mayans long ago...

Don't hold your breath Chris.

pwolf66
November 6th, 2009, 07:52 AM
That looks like a nice pool (Chicago).


It is a very nice facility.

aquageek
November 6th, 2009, 08:44 AM
Some magical day, Fortress will declare herself happy (or at least satisfied) with the order of events in a zones or national championship meet. That may be, in fact, the end of days predicted by Mayans long ago...

Sprinters are divas, every single one of them.

The Fortress
November 6th, 2009, 11:38 AM
Fort is expanding her repertoire: if I'm reading this correctly, I do believe she's unhappy about the order of events in a meet in which she isn't even swimming. :)

Some magical day, Fortress will declare herself happy (or at least satisfied) with the order of events in a zones or national championship meet. That may be, in fact, the end of days predicted by Mayans long ago...

Since the end of discrimination against fly-back sprinters appears to be in the next millennium, the magical day is far off and the Fort diva days remain.

I am hopeful that with USA-S swimmers increasingly focusing on SDKs, soon fly and back will become increasingly similar strokes. When that joyous time is upon us, there will then, and only then, be adequate rest for us divas at meets.

aquageek
November 6th, 2009, 01:17 PM
A press release by USMS Office of Executive Leadership was just leaked to me. The memo reads, "In response to our cadre of sprinters, Nationals in 2011 will be held over the period of seven weeks, with one event being held each Monday. This will allow sprinters to get adequate rest."

The memo goes on to state, "All the distance events (500 and over) will be held on the last day as distance swimmers don't seem to really care."

Betsy
November 6th, 2009, 01:21 PM
I'm looking forward to swimming in the NE SCM Championship meet in Boston. I'm sure it will be a fast meet. The Colonies Zone SCM in Flushing Meadows, NY, should also be very fast.

thewookiee
November 6th, 2009, 06:56 PM
A press release by USMS Office of Executive Leadership was just leaked to me. The memo reads, "In response to our cadre of sprinters, Nationals in 2011 will be held over the period of seven weeks, with one event being held each Monday. This will allow sprinters to get adequate rest."

The memo goes on to state, "All the distance events (500 and over) will be held on the last day as distance swimmers don't seem to really care."

Any meet that Geek(I shower between races Manny Ramiez) swims backstroke at, should provide enough rest for the rest of the swimmers. If he ever swims a backstroke race at the same meet I do, I will have to warm-up again and reshave down before my heat.

The Fortress
November 6th, 2009, 08:04 PM
A press release by USMS Office of Executive Leadership was just leaked to me. The memo reads, "In response to our cadre of sprinters, Nationals in 2011 will be held over the period of seven weeks, with one event being held each Monday. This will allow sprinters to get adequate rest."

The memo goes on to state, "All the distance events (500 and over) will be held on the last day as distance swimmers don't seem to really care."

Can you just imagine a diva on a 7 week taper? :afraid:

ehoch
November 17th, 2009, 04:26 PM
Early Entry (meaning cheaper) closed yesterday -

62 teams
488 swimmers

6 more days until final entries close

The Clubassistant people are doing the entries and you can see all the teams and swimmers - which is a great feature for coaches and swimmers.

Looks like NOVA and Mission Viejo are coming with big teams ....

Michael Heather
November 18th, 2009, 01:32 AM
Now 496 swimmers, MVN has 60, Nova 61. Gonna be a big meet.

ehoch
November 23rd, 2009, 07:41 PM
This is going to be one of those "be careful what you wish for" meets ...

561 swimmers - deadline to sign up is today midnight.

Saw Karlyn Pipes-Neilsen will be there ... she is good for at least 6 records by herself.

The Fortress
November 23rd, 2009, 08:19 PM
This is going to be one of those "be careful what you wish for" meets ...

561 swimmers - deadline to sign up is today midnight.

Saw Karlyn Pipes-Neilsen will be there ... she is good for at least 6 records by herself.

She's apparently also swimming at the other national champs on the east coast. :)

tjrpatt
November 23rd, 2009, 09:39 PM
At Indy last weekend, someone told me (no names) that the reason they don't have SCM in the spring because all the swimmers that have birthdays in the summer and fall would move up into their age-group for the spring meet.

We have a local SCM meet in late January or Early February and you always have to put your age for what it will be on Dec. 31 or something.

Michael Heather
November 24th, 2009, 01:47 AM
She's apparently also swimming at the other national champs on the east coast. :)

On the same weekend? Doubtful.

The Fortress
November 24th, 2009, 10:44 AM
On the same weekend? Doubtful.

630 swimmers at NE Champs on Dec 12-14. Closed entries last night before LB. :-P

Ahelee Sue Osborn
November 24th, 2009, 10:46 AM
Anyone still interested in entering Long Beach?

The deadline has been extended thru Wednesday the 25th!
Relay only swimmers $10. can be entered Friday morning at the meet.

https://www.clubassistant.com/club/meet_information.cfm?c=1293&smid=1750

This morning the entries stand at 580.

Come on EHOCH!
You've got the biggest damn regional/team/club/workout group in the nation - add some more swimmers and show it!

Actually :chug: to you for rallying 49 participants out of what - 1,000+ athletes?
I'd love to see some of that great SCAQ energy you all showed up with in Thousand Oaks!

As long as swimmers/coaches do a good job of scratching out of events not swum, I for one, hope we go OVER 600 entries.

Ahelee Sue Osborn
November 24th, 2009, 10:51 AM
630 swimmers at NE Champs on Dec 12-14. Closed entries last night before LB. :-P

Nice job Northeast coast states!

Next we find someone to merge the results and come up with a virtual championship!

Chris Stevenson
November 24th, 2009, 11:20 AM
Just to be clear, "NE Champs" is the New England LMSC Championships.

The Colonies Zone champs is the week before in NY (ie, it is the same weekend as LB). It won't be as big as the NE championships but it will be pretty substantial and there will be some good swimming at both meets.

But I AM sorry to burden left-coasters with information inconsistent with the notion of their meet as the center of all things SCM... :)

Ahelee Sue Osborn
November 24th, 2009, 11:28 AM
Just to be clear, "NE Champs" is the New England LMSC Championships.

The Colonies Zone champs is the week before in NY (ie, it is the same weekend as LB). It won't be as big as the NE championships but it will be pretty substantial and there will be some good swimming at both meets.

But I AM sorry to burden left-coasters with information inconsistent with the notion of their meet as the center of all things SCM... :)


Ah... so how many total in both events?
We need to combine the Colonies Zones Champs in the mix of Northeast states.
Sounds like a lot more swimmers than we have in Long Beach.

But thats' really only because EHOCH's state of Los Angeles (SCAQ) is not fully represented in LB!

ehoch
November 24th, 2009, 12:15 PM
You've got the biggest damn regional/team/club/workout group in the nation - add some more swimmers and show it!



But thats' really only because EHOCH's state of Los Angeles (SCAQ) is not fully represented in LB!

Thanks for the "encouragement" - if the team was mine, we would have 200+ people, believe me ... but I can do only so much begging :bow:


to burden left-coasters with information inconsistent with the notion of their meet as the center of all things SCM...

Left Coast ?? There is more than one coast ?

I think we could get twice as many people, but the meet is indoors and who wants to swim indoors at 75 degrees in December :angel: . The pool is right on the beach, just steps from the sand, but it's hard to convince people to go to a swim meet instead of surfing on a Sat morning. Much easier to get somebody from snow plowing duties.

Robert Strand
November 24th, 2009, 12:57 PM
Well I don't know if the mailed entries are included but it looks like 600 swimmers for Long Beach for sure. As far as the east coast/west deal I'll go on record and say more world and national marks go down in Long Beach. If KPN breaks a bunch in LB she will have to go faster then her new records to count for the east coast.

Mswimming
November 24th, 2009, 01:31 PM
but it's hard to convince people to go to a swim meet instead of surfing on a Sat morning.

A swim coach who understands!!! :applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud:

Maui Mike
November 24th, 2009, 01:44 PM
Thanks for the "encouragement" - if the team was mine, we would have 200+ people, believe me ... but I can do only so much begging :bow:

". . . it's hard to convince people to go to a swim meet instead of surfing on a Sat morning. Much easier to get somebody from snow plowing duties."

My senior year in high school was at Mission Bay HS in San Diego. An accepted excuse for dogging it in practice was, "I don't want to be too tired for surfing."

knelson
November 24th, 2009, 02:34 PM
Based on the SCM meet attendance and lots of swimmers trying to get a last hurrah out of their tech suits and I think we're going to see a much fast Top Ten list for SCM in 2009.

Gail Roper
November 24th, 2009, 03:37 PM
World top ten closed November 1, USMS top ten goes to the end of the year.

ourswimmer
November 24th, 2009, 03:48 PM
World top ten closed November 1.

:confused: Swims from the 2008 SPMA meet, which was also the weekend after Thanksgiving, appeared in the 2008 FINA SCM TT listing.

Gail Roper
November 24th, 2009, 03:55 PM
I hope you are right............I'll check on that.

Allen Stark
November 24th, 2009, 04:52 PM
I am surprised that the NE meet is bigger than LB,but more power to you.Nearly 600 is enough to make me glad I am staying until Mon and don't have to catch a flight out Sun after the meet.

jim clemmons
November 24th, 2009, 05:13 PM
I hope you are right............I'll check on that.

I think it's actually a printing deadline. That's why the hussling after Pacific's Champs - so our relay's would make the printed copy.

This is what has spurred one of Rich Abraham's goals, which is to beat us (our relay) by 50+ seconds - assuming they don't get DQ'ed while attempting to do so.

Nonetheless, we always will have been first, first. :cool:

Gail Roper
November 24th, 2009, 05:18 PM
Colorado set a lot of relay records last weekend in AZ.........there were 23 world records set.

Rich Abrahams
November 24th, 2009, 06:21 PM
I think it's actually a printing deadline. That's why the hussling after Pacific's Champs - so our relay's would make the printed copy.

This is what has spurred one of Rich Abraham's goals, which is to beat us (our relay) by 50+ seconds - assuming they don't get DQ'ed while attempting to do so.

Nonetheless, we always will have been first, first. :cool:

Jim,

I think we cleared your record by :57. We went a 4:10 for the 400 mixed medley. I was definitely the weak link on that relay.

Chris Stevenson
November 24th, 2009, 06:30 PM
I am surprised that the NE meet is bigger than LB

Hmph, more left-coast elitist swimming snobbery.:)

jim clemmons
November 24th, 2009, 06:48 PM
Jim,

I think we cleared your record by :57. We went a 4:10 for the 400 mixed medley. I was definitely the weak link on that relay.

Well, Rich, thanks for not making it a whole minute. :blush:

We'll keep the page warm for you for the next 5.5 months.:anim_coffee:

Take care.

Ahelee Sue Osborn
November 29th, 2009, 09:57 AM
Long Beach psych sheets will be out on Tuesday.
Knowing The Grunions, it might be sooner.

601 in the final meet entry.
:)

Meet information is here:

http://www.lbgrunions.org/generalinfo.html

ande
December 1st, 2009, 06:08 AM
Psych Sheet (http://www.lbgrunions.org/psychsheets.html)


Timeline (http://www.lbgrunions.org/timeline.html)



Results (http://www.lbgrunions.org/results.html)

Many of us are staying at the Long Beach Westin,
I thought I got a pretty good deal on hotwire for $64 a night
then I saw jeff commings used priceline & got his room at the westin for $50 a night

Looking forward to this meet and seeing all the nice folks

ehoch
December 1st, 2009, 12:59 PM
Timeline and Psychsheet are up !

Long days for all sessions - but one thing I really don't like is that it is virtually impossible for a non-distance swimmer to warm up in the competition pool.

I vote for a 30 min break after the 1500 / 400 / 800 ....

Ahelee Sue Osborn
December 1st, 2009, 04:59 PM
Timeline and Psychsheet are up !
Long days for all sessions - but one thing I really don't like is that it is virtually impossible for a non-distance swimmer to warm up in the competition pool.
I vote for a 30 min break after the 1500 / 400 / 800 ....

Erik -
Did you ask The Gunions about a break between events and they said no?

Or are you simply asking the forum for their opinion...?

I agree there should be a relatively short (no more than 30 minutes) break after the first distance event of the day as well.
Our head coach is calling the event organizers today to get the answer.

If there is no break allowed, our swimmers are going to carpool up early - warmup and then return home until later in the day. Its worth it to check out the Belmont Pool walls in advance - even if you have swum there before.

ehoch
December 1st, 2009, 05:19 PM
Did not ask - but I agree with you and Mark -- so that makes already 120 swimmers and 20% of the meet in case we are voting ..... I know the session would last even longer - but I would say 75% of the swimmers will not be able to practice a start or turn in the competition pool.

The drive down is just too far to go back and forth - getting down there early to warm up and then sit for 3-4 hours is even worse.

The Fortress
December 1st, 2009, 05:43 PM
Don't breaks have to be indicated in writing on the meet info/entry form? Not sure they can just be added ... at least that's what I've been told.

Ahelee Sue Osborn
December 1st, 2009, 07:00 PM
Don't breaks have to be indicated in writing on the meet info/entry form? Not sure they can just be added ... at least that's what I've been told.

There is a published timeline.
But there is also a morning checkin and heats could be re-seeded.

I imagine a break could be worked in if there are scratches in the distance events offering up extra time to the timeline.

Ahelee Sue Osborn
December 1st, 2009, 07:03 PM
New announcement that Long Beach will be livestreamed this weekend.

Thanks to Liveswim.net!

http://liveswim.net


Livestream Sponsor Opportunities:
http://grunions.liveswim.net

rtodd
December 1st, 2009, 07:31 PM
I looked at the heat sheets and they're a we bit faster than Colonies. But it looks like there will be some fast swims at the New England meet.

http://www.metroswim.org/

Ahelee Sue Osborn
December 1st, 2009, 09:22 PM
Quit buggin' the meet director. He's got better things to do than listen to those who wants a break, and the next call is from someone who wants to put the relays somewhere else because people can't (won't?) stay all day to swim them. With a meet this big, you can never please everyone.
There is no such thing as a 30 minute break.

Definitely agree that the race director does not need to get 200+ emails asking for a break! (Glenn, please edit your post!)

But Julie, this is a valid request from swimmers and it could certainly be accomodated.
Maybe not at this meet, but in the future with planning. The rough time-line really helps us all - coaches and swimmers. Everyone needs to use it.

I find it interesting that the same athletes so concerned about the length of the meet are the same asking for warm-up time between events.

This is the championships. Plan for it - food - reading - nice relaxing time with good friends.
How about coming out to support your team mates for some of the day?
Offering to timing in a lane for a few heats/events?
Need to get out of the building? Take a lunch (starbucks) order for your team and make a food run!

Sorry I just don't see it as a long boring day... or even 3 days.
There are 601 swimmers who have worked hard toward swims in this meet and they're the ones who make it fun - if they're happy.

Glenn
December 1st, 2009, 09:42 PM
Julie,

Sorry, guess I wasn't thinking that 200 people might e-mail Ken!:bolt:

So, back off ............. any of you people who might be thinking to bother the meet director!!!!!

Can not bring Stinky Felix home on Friday as I am staying at the LB Westin Fri and Sat night.......don't want to drive to LB for my early morning swims.:bed:

Robert Strand
December 1st, 2009, 11:01 PM
Shame on you Glenn! You started this whole warm-up deal and is typical of your "out of step lifestyle". I was going to skip the 50 free on Saturday but now I think I will swim it in hopes a "trimming your sails". Warm-up in competition pool??? We don't need no "stinkin warm-up".

Stinky Felix
December 1st, 2009, 11:03 PM
Shame on you Glenn! You started this whole warm-up deal and is typical of your "out of step lifestyle". I was going to skip the 50 free on Saturday but now I think I will swim it in hopes a "trimming your sails". Warm-up in competition pool??? We don't need no "stinkin warm-up".

Me too!

Karen Duggan
December 1st, 2009, 11:36 PM
At large meets I always get up early and warm up, go back to the hotel sleep or watch TV, and then re-warm up in the warm up pool.

Please no break! The meet is long enough :afraid:

Glenn
December 2nd, 2009, 12:18 AM
Bob,

I've already conceded the 50 breast to you. Don't even bother to show up for the 50 free..........it's mine.

Oh, and I went down to LB today to work some of those tricky bulkhead walls.............piece of cake.:D

Allen Stark
December 2nd, 2009, 12:57 AM
Shame on you Glenn! You started this whole warm-up deal and is typical of your "out of step lifestyle". I was going to skip the 50 free on Saturday but now I think I will swim it in hopes a "trimming your sails". Warm-up in competition pool??? We don't need no "stinkin warm-up".

Glenn,don't tug on Superman's cape.
Also I see we are both in the 100 IM.If I could swim backstroke you should be worried(but I can't,clearly some people have a misguided idea of which is the evilstroke.)

Glenn
December 2nd, 2009, 11:10 AM
Allen,

Thanks for the advice, but I don't see any reason to give Bob a break. We swim together every day at Rose Bowl and I don't give him a break then either!:D

Allen Stark
December 3rd, 2009, 02:35 PM
Sorry,I have to cancel at the last minute.I just got a call that my son at college is ill and I need to drive up to be with him.I wish I could be there,swim fast.

thewookiee
December 3rd, 2009, 02:44 PM
Sorry,I have to cancel at the last minute.I just got a call that my son at college is ill and I need to drive up to be with him.I wish I could be there,swim fast.

Be safe. Hope you son is better soon!

Allen Stark
December 3rd, 2009, 03:12 PM
Be safe. Hope you son is better soon!
Thanks,it doesn't sound too serious,but he is worried and needs Dad.

Michael Heather
December 4th, 2009, 12:28 PM
Anyone wanting to watch the meet can see it live here:

http://grunions.liveswim.net/

pwb
December 4th, 2009, 03:57 PM
Anyone wanting to watch the meet can see it live here:

http://grunions.liveswim.net/

That's cool. Are live results being posted anywhere?

pwb
December 5th, 2009, 10:04 AM
Wow! Some really fast swimming as expected. I'm only really paying attention to the M 35-39, 40-44 and 45-49, but some smoking swims from some usual suspects:

Event 1 Men 35-39 1500 SC Meter Freestyle
================================================== =============================
WORLD: W 15:58.20 11/20/1999 BOBBY PATTEN, USA
NATL: N 15:58.20 11/20/1999 BOBBY PATTEN
Name Age Team Seed Finals Points
================================================== =============================
1 Kostich, Alex 39 UNAT 16:15.00 15:56.57W 9

Event 1 Men 40-44 1500 SC Meter Freestyle
================================================== =============================
WORLD: W 16:10.52 12/13/2008 DANIEL SERRA, ESP
NATL: N 16:28.84 12/4/2005 MIKE SHAFFER
Name Age Team Seed Finals Points
================================================== =============================
1 Shaffer, Mike 44 VCM-33 17:15.00 16:09.32W 9

Event 3 Men 40-44 200 SC Meter IM
================================================== =============================
WORLD: W 2:07.71 12/6/2008 ERIK HOCHSTEIN, USA
NATL: N 2:07.71 12/6/2008 ERIK HOCHSTEIN
Name Age Team Seed Finals Points
================================================== =============================
1 Santos, Roque 41 WCM-38 2:07.95 2:05.46W 9


Event 3 Men 45-49 200 SC Meter IM
================================================== =============================
WORLD: W 2:10.49 2/15/2009 TAIHEI SAKA, JPN
NATL: N 2:13.42 6/22/2008 GLENN MILLS
Name Age Team Seed Finals Points
================================================== =============================
1 Rasmussen, Anders 46 TXLA-43 2:14.00 2:11.28N 9
28.91 1:02.40 (33.49) 1:40.65 (38.25) 2:11.28 (30.63)

Robert Strand
December 5th, 2009, 11:05 AM
My 200 IM was a real disappointment. Wanted to go 2:28 but just did'nt get it done. That said watching the other swims was awesome. When this meet is done the amount national and world records is going to be incredible. I don't want to stir the sh-t to much but the east coast is going to have to really rock to compete with the times plus the depth of Long Beach.

The Fortress
December 5th, 2009, 11:12 AM
Don't forget the chicks! WRs by Laura Val, Jody Smith and Ahelee Sue Osborne (and maybe others).

Is Lisa Dahl not swimming? I saw she swam a 50 free split in the 100 free, but didn't swim the 50 fly ...

Nice 100 breast for David Guthrie!

Michael Heather
December 6th, 2009, 12:51 AM
43 individual WR so far. 645 people entered.

JimRude
December 6th, 2009, 08:16 PM
Awesome swimming in LB everyone! I am motivated again.

Allen Stark
December 6th, 2009, 08:52 PM
Wow,Bob Strand destroyed his WR's in the BRs,amazing!!

ehoch
December 7th, 2009, 04:24 PM
Great meet everybody :applaud:

A lot world records, a lot of personal records.

It was long, but well worth it ... although my swimmers almost "revolted" on Friday evening at 8:30 pm waiting for the 800 Free relay. Gonna make some suggestions to speed things up at a later point ...

The Grunions did a great job hosting the meet as usual.

Karen Duggan
December 7th, 2009, 04:47 PM
The humongous Walnut Creek contingent (all 8 of us!) were discussing how it might be possible to speed up the meet. One suggestion was to put the 1500 on Thursday all by its lonesome. If you're going to let 106 people enter it, and mind you 115 entered the 100 free, then you need to give it its own day. Of course then you're asking to use the facility one more day, volunteers, etc. But if you did that you could move more events to Friday and shorten all the days. Just a thought.

I haven't been to that meet in at least 10 years. I must say that the timers were exceptionally friendly. I got so caught up talking at one point I missed the long whistle and said, "I'll be back in a minute!" Major kudos to all of the timers in all of the lanes. They were nice, supportive, and motivational. A great group of people!

:angel:

Ahelee Sue Osborn
December 7th, 2009, 05:15 PM
I ABSOLUTELY agree that this meet should be a 4 day affair!

There was some discussion at the officials table at one point during the meet EHOCH and I was looking around for you to join in with us!

There is always a place for constructive criticism and new ideas in the SPMA!

We have a new SPMA Chair, Nancy Reno and At-Large, Rob Dumouchel who are both at most meets. Rob has a super excellent SPMA blog at:

http://www.robaquatics.com

Swimmers should remember that their LMSC works for them and so does the USMS. Keep the communication open so at least your voice is heard.

pwb
December 7th, 2009, 06:25 PM
I've still never made it to this meet (though I did enter and intend to go in 2007) primarily because it conflicts with a big age group meet here for my kids. So, the suggestion that will fall on deaf ears would be to move it one weekend later.

A serious suggestion, though I know everyone's partial to that pool and indoors and the great job I hear the Grunions do, would be to move it to a facility where you could run two 25 meter courses simultaneously. Then maybe you could expand to 1000+ swimmers and justifiably (if not officially) call in the Masters SCM Nationals.

Irvine anyone?

ourswimmer
December 7th, 2009, 06:48 PM
Belmont may not be warm and toasty, but at least you won't get rained on!

In my experience, that depends somewhat on where you stand. But yes, I do prefer the "indoor" environment at Belmont at this time of year to a totally outdoor pool.

And let me add mine to the voices thanking the Grunions once again for a fine meet. My swimming was not as fast as it might have been, but I'll have to look inward to find someone to criticize there.

pwb
December 7th, 2009, 06:54 PM
No way!!! Belmont is indoors. Irvine is not.

Today it is 49 (and that's our HIGH) and raining. I don't think anyone would be comfortable at an outdoor pool today.

Belmont may not be warm and toasty, but at least you won't get rained on!

I don't think we have an indoor pool in Southern California that is capable of running two 25 m courses.


Don't get me wrong. Though I prefer training outside, I prefer racing inside. To shorten the meet, though, you either need to ...


Limit participants (e.g., qualifying times), OR
Have multiple courses, OR
Spread it out over more days

As to the temps, we had 14 & unders racing in 37 degrees yesterday outdoors in Arizona. I knew the Californians were soft, but 49 is quite nice. Shoot, chaos swam in 48 degree water yesterday!

Mswimming
December 7th, 2009, 07:22 PM
I was just looking through the results and WOW that was a fast meet. I swam my personal best in the 100 IM at 1:06.97 and that was only good enough for 9th in my age group!!! Talk about stacked, it took a :58.xx to medal. Amazing.

Lots of incredibly fast swims. :applaud:

Allen Stark
December 7th, 2009, 09:37 PM
Call me a wimp or a diva,but I don't want to go to a taper meet and be cold and I REALLY don't want to be cold and wet.You can be macho,I'd rather be fast.The Grunions do a great job at the meet and it would be tough to top that,but 4 days might be nice(one day for each BR race after the distance day on Thur.)

pwb
December 7th, 2009, 09:46 PM
But was it raining? To me, that makes all the difference in the world. Cold is bad, cold+rain is worse.

Not yesterday. Today, though. And, generally, it rains this first weekend in December and there's a big age group prelims-finals meet and the kids and parents tough it out. Maybe it's the months of baking in the sun that fires the bellies to keep them warm throughout the weekend. Or, they're just tough.:)

Hey, I'm totally in favor of indoor racing. I froze my butt off last spring at the Rinconada meet in mid-March (my wife hid out in the locker room in between my events to keep warm). I'm just saying that a 2 x 25 meter course could make the meet run faster and, apparently, no one in the state of California recognized that it actually gets cold there sometimes. (To be fair, neither has anyone in Arizona ... a fact that's even more stupid as October and April are about the only months where it is pleasant to have a swim meet here). BUT, there are a number of beautiful outdoor facilities in SoCal (UCSD?) that could host a bigger meet with 2 courses.

Ahelee Sue Osborn
December 7th, 2009, 10:02 PM
We were discussing the fact that the SW Zone Championships are now going to rotate between SoCal and Arizona year to year.

But no doubt The Grunions will continue to host their winter meet - and at Belmont Plaza as long as it is standing!
I'm not likely to ever pass up a Grunions hosted meet - but thats' just me.

Most clubs, even some with amazing perfect facilities, are not willing or "able" to host a masters meet.

Ahelee Sue Osborn
December 9th, 2009, 08:39 AM
Below is the championships wrap-up letter sent by Ken Brisbin and the Long Beach Grunions to all championship participants last night.

We have written about The Long Beach Grunions on the forums before and with all the interesting ideas circulating to improve our various championship meets, I'm sure we will again.

But I would like to appreciate once more, the interest and care that this organization takes in serving all the swimmers. Sometimes the more competitive or goal oriented we become, the easier it is to forget our new and more novice meet swimmers.
The Grunions simply don't forget anyone. Thanks for another great weekend of swimming Grunions!


Letter:

Hello Ahelee Sue,

I would like to take this opportunity to personally thank you for attending the 2009 SPMA Short Course Meters Championship hosted by the Long Beach Grunions.

This year we hosted a staggering 650 swimmers over the three days. The increased attendance brought its own challenges and rewards. While our time line suffered a little, your participation elevated this meet to one of top attended regional championship events in the nation.

The Belmont Pool continues to draw elite master swimmers from all over North America resulting in over 80 national records and 70 world records. Just as exciting were the number of "first meet" swimmers who we expect will become our future record breakers.

This year we also went global with the help from our friends from LiveSwim.net. Almost every event was broadcast live over the Internet. We encourage swimmers to become a sponsor of LiveSwim.net by donating at http://grunions.liveswim.net (http://grunions.liveswim.net). Sponsors will receive a CD with all the races captured for playback in full quality.

The Grunions are excited to have hosted another successful SCMC. We are equally interested to see what you think, both positive and negative, so please send me your feedback.

The complete results are available now at http://www.lbgrunions.org/results.html (http://www.lbgrunions.org/results.html).

Ken Brisbin
Long Beach Grunions
Meet Director
Long Beach Grunions
http://www.lbgrunions.org/ (http://www.lbgrunions.org/)

Grunion
December 10th, 2009, 12:19 PM
Thanks everyone for the kind words and suggestions.
The items you mentioned are the same thoughts/concerns we have.
While our least favorite option is to limit the overall number of swimmers we do understand that we will have to do something. There were over 40 volunteers involved in this meet and adding a 4th day will make it more taxing on those individuals but rest assured we will move this meet in the right direction to keep you coming back.

Thanks to everyone who attended and if you missed it mark your calendar now for Dec 3rd, 4th, 5th 2010.

Kenny Brisbin
www.lbgrunions.org
Meet Director