PDA

View Full Version : help on 50 free please



geo123
November 5th, 2009, 12:20 AM
Guys I am facing some problems in my 50 freestyle (LCM). I have a pretty good first 25 meter. where i have a best time of 11.58 (it was digitally timed so no room for error) but i fall out as i get nearer to the wall. My best time in the 50 free LC is 26.60 (I am really new in swimming, i have only timed myself over the 50 three times). So i am taking almost 3.5-4 seconds more in the 2nd 25 where as the elites take from 1.2-1.9 seconds normally from what Iíve seen from a site called swim.ee. Here is the link of mens 50 free from Sydney.
http://swim.ee/competition/sydney2000/mfre50.html
and womens 50 free from Sydney.
http://swim.ee/competition/sydney2000/wfre50.html
Now what can i do to to improve my 2nd 25 of the 50 free. I have a low endurance level. It feels like in the end that i am getting very tired and it is mainly because of my lack of endurance. But then also my stroke also becomes a bit sloppy in the last 7 or 8 meters. I take 3 breaths throughout the 50. i take all three in the 2nd 25. my breathing technique is also very bad. everytime i breath i lose the rythm of my stroke and it is also another factor. So guys can you tell me what can i do to improve my 50 freestyle and be able to do the distance in 23.5-24 seconds in two months time. ALL THE ADVISES WILL BE VERY MUCHHHHHHHH APPRECIATED............................

nkfrench
November 5th, 2009, 10:56 AM
Is your time for the 25m based on a hand touch on a 25m swim ?
Or is it a foot touch as the 25m split on a 50m swim ?

Elite swimmers generally do not get to their level of swimming with just a couple of months preparation.

Sprinters need to be detail oriented in each aspect of their race. There's not much room for error on short events.

These are typical beginner things I see:
* Look at your turn - how quick, appropriate depth (avoiding surface turbulence), how well you streamline, the pushoff, underwater kicking and breakout, and how air-hungry you get.
* Work on your breathing so it isn't disrupting your stroke.

[Edited]
My apologies, I didn't read carefully enough. You were asking about LCM not SCM therefore no turn.

Warren
November 5th, 2009, 03:52 PM
Since you are new to swimming it should be expected that you fade in the last 25 from lack of years of training. But one huge advantage that you have is that you have natural speed and tons of room for improvement.

The easiest way to get faster in two months is to improve your technique. Adjusting your technique to reduce drag will save energy and help you in your back half. This summer I cut 2 tenths of my 25 time when I was untrained by taking 1 underwater video. I thought my body position was correct but after watching the video I realized that it was not. Just because you think that you are doing something doesn't mean that you are. I thought that my head position was streamlined to my body but it was actually tilted up a little. After adjusting my head position it dropped my 25 scm time from 11.5 to 11.3. This also lowered the difference between my first 25 and the second 25 in the 50 because the stroke required less energy due to the reduced drag. If you have access to an underwater camera you should use it and post the video on here.

Another way to improve your back half is to do lactate sets such as 6 x 50 ALL OUT on 5 minutes.

SolarEnergy
November 5th, 2009, 09:29 PM
Geo123, going under 30 LCM early in an adult swim career suggest abundance of well trained Fast Twitch muscle fibers.

Did you use to do weights? Still do some?

geo123
November 5th, 2009, 10:16 PM
@nkfrench: my time for 25 was on a hand touch. Thanks for your advice.

@warren: Thanks for the inspiring words. I don't believe technique is the real big problem for me. I am able to complete a 25 meter in 10-12 strokes with 1 or 2 dolphin kicks at a slow-moderate pace. When i sprint 25 meter from a push i do it in 17-19 strokes. But i will definitely try to video tape my stroke and post it here.

@SolarEnergy: I am still 16 years old and i am not a masters swimmer or something and i have never done weights.

ande
November 5th, 2009, 10:36 PM
everybody gets tired on their 2nd 25
don't go so hard on your first 25
breathe
improve your kick
get stronger
improve your 25 speed



Guys I am facing some problems in my 50 freestyle (LCM). I have a pretty good first 25 meter. where i have a best time of 11.58 (it was digitally timed so no room for error) but i fall out as i get nearer to the wall. My best time in the 50 free LC is 26.60 (I am really new in swimming, i have only timed myself over the 50 three times). So i am taking almost 3.5-4 seconds more in the 2nd 25 where as the elites take from 1.2-1.9 seconds normally from what Iíve seen from a site called swim.ee. Here is the link of mens 50 free from Sydney.
http://swim.ee/competition/sydney2000/mfre50.html
and womens 50 free from Sydney.
http://swim.ee/competition/sydney2000/wfre50.html
Now what can i do to to improve my 2nd 25 of the 50 free. I have a low endurance level. It feels like in the end that i am getting very tired and it is mainly because of my lack of endurance. But then also my stroke also becomes a bit sloppy in the last 7 or 8 meters. I take 3 breaths throughout the 50. i take all three in the 2nd 25. my breathing technique is also very bad. everytime i breath i lose the rythm of my stroke and it is also another factor. So guys can you tell me what can i do to improve my 50 freestyle and be able to do the distance in 23.5-24 seconds in two months time. ALL THE ADVISES WILL BE VERY MUCHHHHHHHH APPRECIATED............................

geo123
November 6th, 2009, 03:33 AM
Thanks a lot ande. But there is one thing gary hall jr,ervin,kizierowski,alexander popov,bousquet,draganja and many other guys admit to going all out in the 50 free from the begining. So shouldn't i try to go all out from the start in the 50? And can you help me with some sets to work on my 2nd 25 so that i don't fall out as much in the end and be able to keep the 2nd 25 under 2 seconds of the 1st 25 time.............................................. ..........

__steve__
November 6th, 2009, 10:55 AM
All out on a 50M pool maybe.

Anyhow, with either pool:

"don't go so hard on your first 25
breathe
improve your kick
get stronger
improve your 25 speed"

SolarEnergy
November 6th, 2009, 04:49 PM
@SolarEnergy: I am still 16 years old and i am not a masters swimmer or something and i have never done weights. I still think that the problem that you seem to have completing a 50m may be related to a combination of heavy muscle *blood rush* along with a severe acidosis which prevents your from maintaining proper stroke mechanics at the end of your event.

Given your age? I'd simply say don't focus on the 50 for now. You are already gifted on this aspect.

Pay more attention to the 100 and your 50 should improve (at least the end of it). Also, if my assumption regarding muscle blood rush is true, then near the end your muscles are getting inflated and stiff. If it's the case then you got to improve the Stretching aspect.

Now you may be wondering "Hey solar! I want to be good in competitive swimming not figure swimming". Well I'd answer that very comprehensive and thorough stretching is an activity in which every single high level swimmer is getting tightly committed. Stretch these upper body muscles to the extent that some flexibility remain even if your muscles are inflated with blood (end of your races).

Typically, from the days I used to coach to a high level, the team would:
- Stretch
- Perform tubing exercises and Vasa swim (swim bench) exercises
- Perform medicine ball exercises
prior to every evening session + the Saturday morning session

I don't know you at all, but given your statement of the facts, your age, your potential, if you don't pay a lot of care to stretch I am pretty sure that your bottleneck is right there.

*note* in case it's not clear enough, body builders know very well about *blood rush* phenomenon. It occurs during and shortly after any gym session. They look at themselves in a mirror and see their muscle mass being bigger (in volume) than usual. Since it's all due to more blood being stored in the muscle, the muscle becomes rigid and loose a lot of its flexibility. For a body builder? no problem. For a sprinter, that has a detrimental impact on technique.

Acidosis is a phenomenon that occurs when blood ph is dropping along with an increase in lactic acid. That probably occurs to you more than in some of your mates due to presumed outstanding anaerobic power metabolism. The higher the rate of your anaerobic metabolism (ability to burn sugar as energy) the higher the level of acidosis (that's the price to pay if you may). Your ability to finish your races will improve along with the ability your system has to buffer (use or get rid) of the substances causing the acidosis. And that will occur more rapidly (one thing in your post is that you mention about 4months for reaching a goal) while exercising over longer distances (100m). By doing so, you allow more time to your system to learn to handle this situation, and the slow down will defer. That along with stretching should bring massive improvement over 50m.

rtodd
November 7th, 2009, 04:53 PM
IMHO, I think to some degree there are 5 competative strokes, fly, back, breast, free and 50 free.

At least to me the catch is a bit different in the 50 than the 100 catch where there is just a bit more glide on entry and then a hand exit a bit farther back. I think you need to focus on the 50 and swim alot of 25's and 50's to get good at the 50. Weight room would help too.

I think you can hold back a bit on the first 25 in scy because you have another wall to reaccelerate back to speed. Not true in LCM, where your dive speed is the max and you want to hold onto it as long as possible. There is no reaccelerating in LCM, you gotta hang on.

I think the body burns one type of energy for about 10 sec max, than switches to another anaerobic system. As someone mentioned you gotta train that one as well with repeats.

Just some thoughts.

SolarEnergy
November 7th, 2009, 07:44 PM
IMHO, I think to some degree there are 5 competative strokes, fly, back, breast, free and 50 free.

At least to me the catch is a bit different in the 50 than the 100 catch where there is just a bit more glide on entry and then a hand exit a bit farther back. I think you need to focus on the 50 and swim alot of 25's and 50's to get good at the 50. Weight room would help too. hmmm this is some smart comment and advise. I agree on the difference in stroke mechanics before the 50 and the 100, especially compared with the 100 and all other distances.

In fact, I kind of agree too with your prescription to focus on the 50 to improve the 50. Weight room may also help the kid to get to his short term goal although at 16yo, since he usually don't visit the gym, he'd better consult a swim coach to get a program.

But at 16y of age. This kid maybe has a huge potential (impossible to tell with the data that we have right now). If it's the case, the 50m may as well continue to improve (say over 6-12 months) without even the need to address it specifically, as a result of continuing to grow and get stronger, more powerful and to deliver more power in presence of acidosis.

Again though, your suggestions are smart and are certainly no waste of time. Specificity, specificity, specificity.

androvski
November 8th, 2009, 04:35 AM
26.60 is an EXCELLENT time for someone who's just starting out. You're clearly a natural. Be sure to follow everyone's advice in this thread and take a look at Ande's invaluable tips -- Swimming Faster Faster (http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?t=4229&page=1).