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ande
November 9th, 2009, 12:49 PM
What Will Be the Longest Standing World Record of Suit Age? (http://tr.im/longeststandingrec)

Leonard Jansen
November 9th, 2009, 01:17 PM
I find it rather akin to what happened in the long jump at the '68 Olympics. Beamon buried the record and most say it was due to the altitude and the fact that the wind was a barely legal 2.0 m/s. It wasn't until 1991 that this was finally taken down(Still the record, BTW). Interesting that the current woman's mark in the long jump is from 1988.

-LBJ

Dolphin 2
November 9th, 2009, 03:29 PM
Because of all the variations in all the gadgets and gizmos that have come to the market (and those that could be on their way in the future), any new record set by using a mechanized swimming technique is basically a moot issue.

As I stated in one of my previous posts, the maximum speed will be determined by an individual swimmer’s power to drag ratio and the propulsion efficiency:

U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Is there a limit to how fast we can swim?


Therefore any mechanized swimming aid that maximizes the power to drag ratio will also set a new record.

However to be honest and truthful, any new record set using a tech suit should be listed with an asterisk (*) next to it -and it call it a day.

* That little flower-shaped character you see in ads that indicates there's a little bit more to the statement and things aren't quite as good as they seem!!! :cry:

D2

ande
November 9th, 2009, 04:14 PM
I don't think Bob did anything questionable, everything came together & he had that amazing WR leap that stood for years.

Suspect records might be FloJo's 100 & 200 M dashes at the 1988 olympics, those records still stand, in all these years, no ones come close to either, even Marion Jones (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/21138883/) who admitted to doping didn't beat them.

Were the rubber suits were better than drugs?



I find it rather akin to what happened in the long jump at the '68 Olympics. Beamon buried the record and most say it was due to the altitude and the fact that the wind was a barely legal 2.0 m/s. It wasn't until 1991 that this was finally taken down(Still the record, BTW). Interesting that the current woman's mark in the long jump is from 1988.

-LBJ

ande
November 9th, 2009, 04:32 PM
Phelps only wore lzr legs in the phenominal 400 IM (4:03.84)
the other swims were done in later generation suits

aquageek
November 9th, 2009, 05:34 PM
* That little flower-shaped character you see in ads that indicates there's a little bit more to the statement and things aren't quite as good as they seem!!! :cry:

D2

I would propose that any post you make regarding swimming be accompanied by an *.

ehoch
November 9th, 2009, 05:50 PM
Going to ignore one of the posters ...

The 50 Free will be untouchable and stand the longest.

400 IM - that will go down within the next ten years. That seems normal progress - just as the 400 Free. Thorpe went 3:40 - I can see somebody get this in a few years.

The 2:06 for women is interesting - based on the Men's times, women should be able to go 2:06 - the difference in 200s is usually 11-12 seconds - but I can't see it happen - same for the 2:01 Fly. But I can see people getting close.

The 50 Free though, I am not sure people will be within 1/2 a second at the next Olympics.

Leonard Jansen
November 9th, 2009, 08:15 PM
I don't think Bob did anything questionable, everything came together & he had that amazing WR leap that stood for years.

Suspect records might be FloJo's 100 & 200 M dashes at the 1988 olympics, those records still stand, in all these years, no ones come close to either, even Marion Jones (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/21138883/) who admitted to doping didn't beat them.

Were the rubber suits were better than drugs?

No, Beamon's jump is not in question, I was just making the point that we have a situation where we could have a record that lasts for a ridiculously long time a la Beamon's. That jump was something of a problem to the track & field work since it was legit by the rules of the day because no one understand all the implications of jumping at altitude, but it also was clearly an outlier. Later it was marked with an asterisk, but it was still the world record.

The women's long jump WR - by a Russian in '88 - is suspect at best.The women's 800 meter record from 1983 is positively a travesty. Flojo's runs are problematic to the T&F world on two counts: They were so far ahead of anything that she had done prior and there is a lot of doubt that the wind reading was made correctly and it was well over the allowable. On the other side, we have Usain Bolt in the men's sprints who is doing Flojo-like things and yet is tested constantly. So, if he is legit, then Flojo might have been a freak of nature as well. (No other way to describe Bolt - he's too fast to properly wrap your brain around.)

So... I just hope that this suit-era doesn't become an asterisk-based embarassment for swimming.

-LBJ

rtodd
November 9th, 2009, 08:24 PM
Biederman's 200 free was nasty fast.

That Guy
November 9th, 2009, 11:06 PM
As soon as I read the title of this thread I thought "Ariana Kukors" and sure enough, she was listed first in the article. With that said, Liu's 200 fly and Bousquet's 50 free will be very hard to beat. Of everything mentioned here, Biedermann's 200 free is the most vulnerable. *ahem* HEY PHELPS, NO WAY IN HELL YOU GO UNDER 1:42 IN LONDON. (And just like that, that record is toast. :chug:)

__steve__
November 10th, 2009, 12:01 AM
Water places severe limitations to time without external factors once 2.5 M/sec is reached. Records will be had with 0.000001 seconds in the future - lol

Mark Savage
November 10th, 2009, 12:42 AM
Water places severe limitations to time without external factors once 2.5 M/sec is reached. Records will be had with 0.000001 seconds in the future - lol


:) funny stuff

Lump
November 10th, 2009, 09:50 AM
Records will be had with 0.000001 seconds in the future - lol

Not unless they change the rule on what decimal place they go to.:D

ande
November 10th, 2009, 10:17 AM
the race that's gone unmentioned is the mens 800 freestyle (http://omegatiming.com/swimming/racearchives/2009/Roma2009/C73A1_Res1Heat_117_Finals_1_Men_800_Free.pdf)

the previous record was

WR 7:38.65 HACKETT Grant AUS Montreal (CAN) 27 JUL 2005
25.99 54.38
1:23.13 1:51.89
2:20.60 2:49.49
3:18.32 3:47.17
4:16.06 4:45.03
5:14.21 5:43.55
6:12.78 6:42.11
7:10.44 7:38.65

then Lin Zhang went 7:32

1 7 ZHANG Lin CHN 0.77 7:32.12 WR
26.94
28.26 55.20
28.84 1:24.04
28.51 1:52.55

28.61 2:21.16
28.71 2:49.87
28.71 3:18.58
28.21 3:46.79

28.23 4:15.02
28.26 4:43.28
28.51 5:11.79
28.57 5:40.36

28.90 6:09.26
28.77 6:38.03
28.10 7:06.13
25.99 7:32.12

knelson
November 10th, 2009, 10:43 AM
I graphed the men's freestyle records and expected to see an outlier, but it's actually pretty amazing how close the records seem to fit a curve (when graphed as race length in meters vs. avg speed in m/s). I'll leave this to the reader as an exercise, but here's the data:


race (m) avg speed (m/s)
50 2.39
100 2.13
200 1.96
400 1.82
800 1.77
1500 1.72

Dolphin 2
November 10th, 2009, 11:17 AM
Previous post from Aquageek:
"I would propose that any post you make regarding swimming be accompanied by an *".

Hey Aquageek
That's a very clever proposal and I'm taking your advice as shown in the example below!!! :D

"I would propose that any post you make regarding swimming be accompanied by an *". *

D2

JimRude
November 10th, 2009, 11:46 AM
Previous post from Aquageek:
"I would propose that any post you make regarding swimming be accompanied by an *".

Hey Aquageek
That's a very clever proposal and I'm taking your advice as shown in the example below!!! :D

"I would propose that any post you make regarding swimming be accompanied by an *". *

D2

Can someone please ban this joker? :bitching:

The Fortress
November 10th, 2009, 11:58 AM
Can someone please ban this joker? :bitching:

He should have gotten a 2 week boot for his horrific slurs against LBJ on that NSR thread. He shut up for awhile after that, and, sigh, is now back at it again, posting useless gibberish.

aquageek
November 10th, 2009, 12:23 PM
So, what happens if there was more to the crazy times than just the crazy suits? If training, coaching, etc has improved to such a point that we will continue to have records broken frequently, CAN I HAVE MY SUIT BACK?

__steve__
November 10th, 2009, 12:37 PM
Who is the fastest swimmer on earth without being suit assisted? Popov?

stillwater
November 10th, 2009, 01:14 PM
Can someone please ban this joker?

Just because you don't like what he writes and advocates for doesn't mean he should be silenced.

Last I checked, the clique doesn't make the rules.

stillwater
November 10th, 2009, 01:16 PM
Fastest swimmer on earth?

Gary Hall Jr.

orca1946
November 11th, 2009, 01:42 PM
The 50 free will hold for a long time, there is less time/distance to work with!

Warren
November 12th, 2009, 06:45 PM
I think that the relays will last the longest. Super swimmers like phelps and spitz will come along and take down some of the individual records but they will need 3 other incredible swimmers to help them with the relays. It might take the 4 fastest swimmers in the world to break the 4 x 100 free record. What are the chances that the 4 fastest swimmers in the world be from the same country? Has that ever happened before?

ehoch
November 12th, 2009, 07:09 PM
It's very interesting to see the current college kids talk about the suits. There is a thread on the college swimming board about the winning time for the 50 Free this year and they seem convinced that people will go as fast as last year. I think nobody will break 19 - winning time maybe 19.1 or so.

JimRude
November 12th, 2009, 07:48 PM
Just because you don't like what he writes and advocates for doesn't mean he should be silenced.

Last I checked, the clique doesn't make the rules.

I was not aware there was a clique. I guess that means I'm not part of it.

To the best of my knowledge, D2 only posts criticisms and witticisms about tech suits. That is fine. But after a few hundred of them, they probably don't add much value to the discussion forum.

Mark Savage
November 13th, 2009, 01:27 PM
I thought about starting a new thread, but my question is relevant to the one being discussed here: Do you think Phelps will be able to improve on his WR's in a non-tech suit? The 100/200 fly and recapture the 200 free? The 400 IM is out. The 200 IM?

Tim L
November 13th, 2009, 02:41 PM
It's very interesting to see the current college kids talk about the suits. There is a thread on the college swimming board about the winning time for the 50 Free this year and they seem convinced that people will go as fast as last year. I think nobody will break 19 - winning time maybe 19.1 or so.

I was thinking about the same, but Nathan Adrian went a 19.19 in the 50 (18.65 in a relay) and 42.77 in the 100 recently. Perhaps, somone will break 19 by just a little bit.

It will be very interesting to see what happens.

Tim

thewookiee
November 13th, 2009, 03:34 PM
I was not aware there was a clique. I guess that means I'm not part of it.

To the best of my knowledge, D2 only posts criticisms and witticisms about tech suits. That is fine. But after a few hundred of them, they probably don't add much value to the discussion forum.

While I don't disagree with you about his value to the forum, the same can be said about the whole suit debate after hunderds...thousands of debates on the issue...not much value anymore. I love the coverage but if it is outlawed...then we all have to adjust and move on.