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flyingfish1
November 9th, 2009, 05:42 PM
I used to be able to do all fly events, even if not so well, but now, after 5 years out, I am only able to do a 25 well and a 50 not so well. How do I get back whatever it is I lost in those 5 years. How do I work up from a 25 to a 50 to a 75 and 100?

rtodd
November 9th, 2009, 08:17 PM
You can try a few things:

Broken 100's like 4x25's with 20 sec rest, then 15, 10, 5, 0 sec rest.

and/or

You can do 75 free, then 25 fly, then go to 50 free/50 fly, 25 free/75 fly, all fly.

The other thing to work on besides how far you an fly in a single effort is your total fly volume per workout. Steadily work your fly volume up from 100-200 yards per workout to 400-600 yards, even more (look at Chris S. blog for insane fly volume). I think working fly when tired is important because it forces you to concentrate on moving through the water with the least effort. When you are swimming fresh, even poorly executed fly can feel fast, so you will not work on stroke correction.

elise526
November 9th, 2009, 09:00 PM
Doing sets of 12 x 25 fly on :45 is a good way to start towards building you up for longer swims. Next, try doing a set of 6 x 50 - odds are fly and evens are free. Do these with fins and with 20 seconds rest between each swim. You will then want to get where you can do the set without fins.

For the 100 fly, try doing a mixed a set of 4 x 100 25 free/25 fly/25 free/25 fly with fins. Eventually you will want to go to doing this without fins and try doing 100s as 50 fly/50 free and/or 50 free/50 fly.

On all swims with fly, be sure you take plenty of rest between each swim (20 to 30 seconds) as it is very important to maintain perfect technique.

gigi
November 9th, 2009, 09:07 PM
I like the above advice...

Last year I did my 1st 100 fly in 30 years after doing lots and lots of 25's and 50's in practice. I never did a 100 until I did it in the meet and It worked out just fine! even if you can't pull off a 100 in practice, it could be there for you on meet day...

rtodd
November 9th, 2009, 09:36 PM
Just to clarify,

I don't mean to do 4x25's and work your way down to zero rest in one set. I mean do them with 20 sec rest one week and over the course of months work that rest interval down to 5 sec.

As Elise says, maintain perfect form, but don't be afraid to swim fly tired. If it completely breaks down just switch to free to finish up.

Gigi is right, if you can swim 75's in practice, you can swim a 100 at a meet. I'm not sure if you can swim a 175 it ensures you can swim a 200 though!!

ande
November 10th, 2009, 10:07 AM
Hi Marcia,

Train for the 200 freestyle & do a little fly training

do 25's fly with plenty of rest
like
8 x 25 odds: easy speed evens: easy
then work up to 37.5
then work up to 50
then work up to 62.5
then work up to 75's
then work up to 87.5's
then do a 100

improve your SDK
Help my SDK is Horrible

Read Swim Faster Faster & apply ideas from it to your training

tips that might help you the most are

Tip 01 Swim fast in practice

Tip 05 ACTING AS IF


Tip 165 Build a Better Boat


Tip 265 Train harder, smarter, faster, further, more often, with a coach, with a team, in a convenient facility & at a convenient Time

good luck

hope this helps

ande



I used to be able to do all fly events, even if not so well, but now, after 5 years out, I am only able to do a 25 well and a 50 not so well. How do I get back whatever it is I lost in those 5 years.
How do I work up from a 25 to a 50 to a 75 and 100?

jeffsab
November 10th, 2009, 02:41 PM
I'm just getting back into the pool after many years and I've been doing sets of 100 IMs to build up fly yardage.

I have also been doing 100 fly sets where only 25 yards is full stroke and the other 75 is fly kick (25 right side, 25 left side, 25 back). Doing these will really make you feel it in your abs.

GaryHallSr
November 10th, 2009, 05:50 PM
Dear Flying Fish,

These are all good sets and good advice. In fly, its all about the legs. When your legs go in fly....so do you. Work your sets half with fins (to hold stroke and hips high) and half without (to gain humility). Work your legs in really hard sets of dolphin...When you can sustain good speed for 200 meters kicking, you will be ready to swim the 100 fly. Until then...keep working the legs.
One other tip, keep your shoulders down....way down. If you don't have the flexibility in your neck to lift just your head, then learn to breath to the side. Either way, with shoulders low on the water, you will be much more efficient in fly.

Gary Sr.

arthur
November 11th, 2009, 04:07 AM
I agree with what everyone has said above.

I watched Michael Phelps fly video last weekend and one of the things they said was because of the significant energy cost, Michael does a lot of different fly drills. A couple are triple kick fly and one double arm followed by one single arm with the single arm alternating left and right. Doing more fly drill should allow you to add more fly to your workout and also let you focus on technique such as hand entry.

SolarEnergy
November 11th, 2009, 09:12 PM
I used to be able to do all fly events, even if not so well, but now, after 5 years out, I am only able to do a 25 well and a 50 not so well. How do I get back whatever it is I lost in those 5 years. How do I work up from a 25 to a 50 to a 75 and 100?
If you have difficulty to just complete the distance then I'd probably suggest that you sort out the technical issues that prevent you to do so, then build some fitness that will allow you to book the distance more rapidly.

Building some fitness on some flaws can lead to frustration or/and injuries.

orca1946
November 12th, 2009, 05:51 PM
Try going slower to make the distance in practice , then work up to the speed you want.

spell_me
November 13th, 2009, 07:09 AM
Thanks for all the advice in this thread. I've been putting it all to good use. I'm not the OP but I needed help on this same issue.

Re Gary Hall Sr's advice on building up the legs-- I started doing exactly this about 4 weeks ago, in and out of the water, and got some fins. It's already making a big difference.

SolarEnergy
November 13th, 2009, 07:40 PM
here's a precious tip for anyone wanting to improve ability to swim BF at lower energy cost. I created this drill early '90s you'll see it's very simple. That really does 3 things (very well):
- Improves balance
- Improves timing of the two kicks and breathing relative to the undulation
- Get you into a relaxed state of mind, some of it hopefully will transfer into your full stroke.

I think it is self explanatory. I'd call this the 0-arm butterfly, as opposed to just body undulation. The later is often described with breathing patterns that don't fit the actual stroke. They do not make distinction between first and second kick if you will. There's a variation that is sometimes taught but I hate it. Too slow.

(Turn down the sound, I am sorry)
YouTube- Fly DrillSide

Get to do this and you'll be able to master both breathing and arm recovery aspects. That will get you much further in term of distances.

bud
November 14th, 2009, 12:48 PM
Great Thread. My favorite way to build up fly is a combination of the suggestions given here.

I start with sets of 50, and mostly just do 50's... changing the rest interval, and changing what I do in the 50 as I improve my technique, strength, and conditioning.

"It's all in the kick" is spot-on. Working on the kick is the only way to improve fly IMHO.

For my 50's I usually start with one length body dolphin on my back, then come back with different combinations of full stroke and one-arm-fly (right now it is 2ea full stroke followed by one-arm each side, repeat), ending with full stroke the whole way... and then rest. Eventually I will string some 50's together for a few 100's mixed in... etc. When my conditioning was better I was doing as many 50's as I could in 15min., up to 3x/practice session. (That allowed me to be able to do a 400IM and a 200 Fly... not pretty the whole way, or top-ten material, but I could finish the event without feeling like I was completely trashed.) Anyway... the idea is to gradually build up.

I agree about being tired. The ultimate test for me is how well I can keep my form while doing fly sets at the end of my practice session. If your technique breaks down significantly, then it is time to switch to something else (kicks? one-arm? another stroke?) till you are ready to give it another go with proper form.

There are numerous fly threads here... this is a list of some of them.

:)

orca1946
November 14th, 2009, 02:02 PM
It sounds as if more swimmers will do fly this year !

bamueller
November 15th, 2009, 04:30 PM
I like the above advice...

Last year I did my 1st 100 fly in 30 years after doing lots and lots of 25's and 50's in practice. I never did a 100 until I did it in the meet and It worked out just fine! even if you can't pull off a 100 in practice, it could be there for you on meet day...

That is what I like to hear. Is a 200 fly the same way? It's pretty much a 175 of all heart.

flyingfish1
November 15th, 2009, 06:48 PM
thanks for all these great suggestions! I'm using as many of them as I can, esp legs and broken 50 flys with 10 sec rest.