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Georgio
December 31st, 2009, 07:27 PM
I don't understand the following comments:

1. "Too many swimmers focus on pushing their hand back at the end of the stroke, which just delays getting it back to the power position".

2. ""hand's aren't pushing back far enough" knowing it was obsolete "

One of my favorite freestyle instructional videos of Lindsay Benco stresses "completing the stroke all the way past your hip".

Has emphasis on this phase of the stroke become obsolete, and a quicker recovery considered more efficient?

Also the coach yells, "Thumbs down your sides!" Does this still apply?

Thanks for your advice,

Georgio :drown:

jessicafk11
January 1st, 2010, 12:01 PM
Like so many things in swimming, do what works for you. I have been working on shortening up my stroke although I still finish further back than perhaps I need to. I went to a swim clinic and the idea behind not following all the way through is that it uses your triceps which are small muscles. The thinking here is that these smaller muscles won't give you as much propulsion as larger muscles which can be engaged earlier in the stroke and so you should shorten up the stroke to use the large muscles more. I think it was something like that. I any event, it has been working for me. Try swimming with more and less follow through to see how it feels one way versus the other and see which way is faster for you. Which ever way works better for you is the way you should be swimming, regardless of whether someone else thinks it is obsolete or not.

orca1946
January 1st, 2010, 12:13 PM
I think it depends on sprint or distance to finish further back or not.

Georgio
January 1st, 2010, 11:13 PM
I have been working on getting after myself when swimming to remember to follow through on strokes past my hips. I had a shorter stroke. I find my number of strokes per lap goes way down when I follow through more. The thinking being it is more efficient to get as much power out of each stroke, rather than a lot more strokes.

I guess this is where the distance vs. sprint factor comes in.

It's time to start comparing some times.

Thanks Much,

Georgio

shahboz
January 2nd, 2010, 11:24 AM
your triceps which are small muscles. The thinking here is that these smaller muscles won't give you as much propulsion as larger muscles which can be engaged earlier in the stroke and so you should shorten up the stroke to use the large muscles more.

ummm yeah...

A. The tricep is not a small muscle
B. The tricep is engaged throughout the pull. The long head of the tri helps to extend the shoulder (accessory muscle for the extension). Then drives the back half of the pull.

I think there are more important things to think about like:
A. Distance per stroke vs. turnover rate
B. Body roll during the entry/pull.

You want to set the lever, pull strong and finish with power.

BTW how many strokes per length(25y or m) are you taking?

fritznh
January 2nd, 2010, 02:30 PM
I don't understand the following comments:

1. "Too many swimmers focus on pushing their hand back at the end of the stroke, which just delays getting it back to the power position".

2. ""hand's aren't pushing back far enough" knowing it was obsolete "

One of my favorite freestyle instructional videos of Lindsay Benco stresses "completing the stroke all the way past your hip".

Has emphasis on this phase of the stroke become obsolete, and a quicker recovery considered more efficient?

Also the coach yells, "Thumbs down your sides!" Does this still apply?

Thanks for your advice,

Georgio :drown:


I think what Lindsay was saying was that the "new" way of swimming freestyle is to sweep your hand out, rather than to push your hand down to your suit. It is almost a karate chop motion, and it helps with getting your arms around for the next stroke. I would also expect that your hand speed is dropping as you try to shove the water back with just your arm, but you get actual propulsion out of sweeping your hand out.

The "thumb down your sides" idea may be to keep your hands and forearms perpendicular in the water, rather than sliding through. Thinking about the sweeping motion at the end of the stroke helped me, especially with butterfly. Rather than "dead ending" my hands at my thighs, it felt a lot better when I swept them out at the end of the stroke. It also helped me get them around, though I still have trouble after 85 yards.

clyde hedlund
January 2nd, 2010, 05:51 PM
I think what Lindsay was saying was that the "new" way of swimming freestyle is to sweep your hand out, rather than to push your hand down to your suit. It is almost a karate chop motion, and it helps with getting your arms around for the next stroke.


I like that "karate chop motion." No sense pushing back against water that's already moving backwards? The "karate chop" or skating style stroke helps locate a continuous supply of desirable "still water," for better and more efficient propulsion.

drowndrt
January 5th, 2010, 12:05 AM
I always thought of "thumbs down the side" to make sure you keep your arms close to your body, and "breaking" your arm. You don't want a straight arm throughout the stoke, you need to propel yourself through the water, not pull the pool around you.

I also think that the finish of the stroke is very personal. If someone isn't getting any benefit at all from finishing the stoke, then don't. Waste of time. But, this is another sculling movement many worked very hard to add and getting rid of the part of the stroke would actually hurt them.

I learned to swim as lazy as possible. I try not waste energy in something that doesn't benefit my stroke. And, if I find something, then I fix it.

__steve__
January 5th, 2010, 11:48 AM
I naturally forget to finish the final part of the stroke by pushing back, but when I add it in to the stroke it definately helps. There are very powerful muscles at optimal leverage at work here that would otherwise be creating drag.