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Bluewater34
February 8th, 2010, 12:12 AM
Just wondering if anyone had experienced this:

Started 2nd swimming life in fall 2007 and have been hard at it since. For the first 9 or 10 months, I was just swimming long and slow until I could go no more. I began throwing in some sprint sets after a good 1600 or so for the next few months. During this period, say a year or so, I dropped 40 lbs, from 235 to 195 (I'm 6'3"). Breaking 190 was my goal, though 190 is probably where I should be.

Throughout 2009, I could no longer stand the long swims and did more and more sets, 400's, 200's, 100s & 50's between a warm-up 500 and a warm down 500. My goal is 3000 - 3200/day and try to get as close to 16k per week as I can by doing some variation of the sets above.

Over the last year of doing this, I've noticed more muscle I think, and my clothes all still fit right, but the scale is alarming me. I'm hovering around - and some weeks over - 200 again.

I think I've slipped in my eating habits (definitely did over the holidays), but I was wondering if anyone has seen this before? Are these sprints where I'm constantly trying to improve my times putting muscle on me that are causing me to fret over the weight gain? Or do I just need to stay away from the fridge? Or what?

Blue

PS> I know all the sites regarding weight loss & swimming, I just want the answers from the horses' mouths. Thanks!

knelson
February 8th, 2010, 12:44 AM
Do you have any idea how your body fat percentage compares then to now? Do you think your current body fat pct. is where it should be? I would be inclined to track this as opposed to your weight. That weight you gained could very well be mostly muscle mass.

spell_me
February 8th, 2010, 08:05 AM
Muscle weighs more than fat. If it's just the numbers on the scale that are bigger, and not your rear end, I wouldn't worry.

The Fortress
February 8th, 2010, 11:43 AM
That weight you gained could very well be mostly muscle mass.

Probably correct.

I always say that swimming makes me fat. I put on weight when I started swimming as opposed to running. Massive big shoulders. I think it's mostly muscle, but could be some extra body fat too.

qbrain
February 8th, 2010, 12:38 PM
Blue,

Clean up your diet. There is no reason not too, right? You will probably be happier with a leaner you and if that 5lbs was all muscle, you will be happier with a healthier you.

From personal experience, swimming does create a stronger hunger response than other exercise. This results in more frequent visits to the fridge, which contains some quick, easy and unhealthy calorie options which is what you eat because you are hungry now. This increased appetite is what swimming gets a bad rap for making people gain weight.

aztimm
February 8th, 2010, 02:02 PM
I agree with Q and recommend cleaning up the diet as much as you can. Drop high calorie/high carb snacks and switch to high protein whenever you can. If you're drinking soda, beer, or other drinks, cutting them back can also help. When I dropped my daily Coke, I noticed a drop in weight of about 5 lbs.

Swimming gets a bad rap on weight for a variety of reasons, but I don't think many of them are quite valid. When I did the hour swim, trying to get in as much distance in an hour, I wasn't nearly as hungry after as usual. It felt more like an hour run, when I could go 7 miles and burn around 900 calories. It is rare for me to do swims like that though, most of my swimming is interval-based, say 10 x 200 @ 3:00, where my running and cycling is mostly nonstop, with some patterns thrown in.

If you lift weights, you may notice the same cravings after as from swimming. And one of these days, I'm going to try a running track workout, and I'd expect that would be the same.

qbrain
February 8th, 2010, 03:20 PM
Swimming gets a bad rap on weight for a variety of reasons, but I don't think many of them are quite valid. When I did the hour swim, trying to get in as much distance in an hour, I wasn't nearly as hungry after as usual. It felt more like an hour run, when I could go 7 miles and burn around 900 calories. It is rare for me to do swims like that though, most of my swimming is interval-based, say 10 x 200 @ 3:00, where my running and cycling is mostly nonstop, with some patterns thrown in.

If you lift weights, you may notice the same cravings after as from swimming. And one of these days, I'm going to try a running track workout, and I'd expect that would be the same.

This is very interesting Tim. I have the same hunger issue with lifting as I do with swimming but never put the interval aspect of the two together. I am tempted to do a continuous swim tomorrow and see if I experience the same level of hunger.

Thanks for pointing this out.

Bluewater34
February 8th, 2010, 03:33 PM
All great advice, Thanks! I did most of my diet correction the same week I started back swimming in 2007. I quit all drinks with sugar (was drinking 2 - 3 cokes/day...sadly), cut out all fried foods, and tried to limit snacks to things with multi-grain options and the like. I like beer, but probably only have it a couple of weekends per month. And in typical fashion, I was too scared of what the body fat calipers would say when I started exercising and have no idea where I started on that.

I'm proud to say that I've had 1 coke since October, 2007. I think the problem with the diet is that I've slipped on snacks and sweets. Somehow I've gotten it in my mind that I "deserve" some sweet treat since I work out so hard in the pool. I have a bad sweet-tooth too. But I've got to reign in the sweets, they should be a treat, not a staple.

So, I now think that perhaps I have put on some muscle and abused my dietary intake, combining for some added padding and added muscle. So a double whammy.

Thanks for the motivation, I'm going to re-tackle my love of food issues and not fret any muscle addition.

Blue

tjrpatt
February 8th, 2010, 03:58 PM
Alot of my weight loss in the last two year came from swimming. But, it is all about adding yardage/meterage and adding intensity. of course, the weight loss from swimming is pretty slow. I noticed that added weights with higher reps and smaller weights helped alot too. You are probably adding more muscle. Lately, I haven't seen that much weight loss on the scale but people who only see me once every few months notice a difference in my appearance.

clyde hedlund
February 8th, 2010, 11:47 PM
I've been told that swimming encourages the storage of fat because the body wants to insulate itself from the cold water. So swim in a warm water pool and see how that works with your appetite. I get great results by adding a brisk one hour walk to the swimming routine, which also preserves my precious muscle glycogen stores needed to do those hard sprint pieces in cold water.

joshua
February 9th, 2010, 01:57 AM
Very interesting thread.
I would add that everything I have read indicates that swimming is not the best exercise for weight loss due to a number of factors, some mentioned in this thread (added muscle mass, increased hunger due to heat loss) and some not (lower hr in the horizontal position and when immersed in water).
Bluewater34 didn't mention how old he was (I'm assuming he was not born in 1934) but 6"3 and 195 seems to me to be fine. I am 6"2 and weigh about 205 and I'm 56. I would like to get down to 200lbs. but why should a 6"3 male swimmer try to get under 190? If one is well muscled what's the problem?
Let's not get obsessive abut weight. Of course one could take up long distance running and look like a plucked chicken :afraid:. Is that what we want? Didn't think so.

qbrain
February 9th, 2010, 09:46 AM
but why should a 6"3 male swimmer try to get under 190?

This?
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:2VUGIigYwAE2bM:http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/4704357/abs-main_Full.jpg)

Lump
February 9th, 2010, 10:52 AM
I think it depends on where you are coming from. In my 2nd swimming life I'm coming from 15 years of being out of pool, doing weights, playing rugby, eating like crap, etc. So I'm coming from being a "big guy" that is pretty thick muscularly and with a bit too much around the middle. Since I've been swimming (basically 20-25K a week) I have leaned out quite a bit. I've gone from about 255 to 225, and while I'd like to get down to 205-210 eventually I can tell I've lost inches everywhere. Clothes that used to fit perfect are big, stuff that used to be tight and make me look fat now fits, etc.

So for me, swimming has had an opposite effect. I'm going from looking more footballish to lean muscle, which I like ALOT better. I would say the more aerobic swimming you do (yeah, that means distance!) the more you'll lean out. I'd throw in some jogging/running too on your dryland days. I've pretty much plataued, so I'm starting to run again....although my back is fighting me on that decision.

Speedo
February 9th, 2010, 11:07 AM
I record my weight on a daily basis and put it in a spreadsheet, along with any activity I did that day, its duration, and whether it was aerobic or anaerobic in nature. So far, I've just used it qualitatively in terms of looking at what activities influence weight (for me, at least), but some day I hope to do more statistically-oriented work with the info.

I've been looking at a recent trend in the info I've been collecting about myself. At the beginning of December, I was averaging about 172lbs after a number of months of sprintish workouts and moderate weight lifting. Since December, I've changed my swimming to more endurance-based (and higher) yardage and also increased the weight training intensity- I have since brought my average up to a consistent 175lbs, despite the increase in yardage.

I would have thought that the yardage increase would have kept the weight gain in check, but apparently there is something else going on here. Is it a seasonal weight increase? Possibly. But I tend to think it's more due to the weights and muscle mass gains.

So I agree with the previous posts, in that there are a number of factors that could be playing with your weight.

jeffsab
February 9th, 2010, 11:08 AM
I lost 30 pounds this past summer during bike/run triathlon training, and while swimming 5x/week this winter has not helped me lost that last 10, it has significantly increased my muscularity. Swimming makes me hungry as a horse, so I don't expect to lose any more weight until summer when I start running again.

nkfrench
February 9th, 2010, 02:50 PM
I get best weight loss results (10#/month) when I finish workouts tired enough that I just want to go home and sleep, not go home and eat. Same as with other exercise modes.

shahboz
February 9th, 2010, 04:41 PM
I would think that as efficiency in the water increases your calorie burning potential decreases. Basically, the better you get at swimming the harder you have to work to burn the same amount of calories. From my experience, I drop weight when I add more intensity to my workouts. So, when I tapering and doing high intensity sets with less yardage I usually drop upwards of 10 pounds (Ill get down to 165 at 6 feet). I will put the weight back on when I increase yardage and go a bit more aerobic.

I can also drop weight if I start swapping runs for swims (I run short distances >5k or intervals). I am a horribly inefficient runner.

I think its pretty simple, take in less calories than you burn... Not sure I buy a lot of the "low heart rate in a horizontal position" and "water temp" stuff. We have a ton of noodlers and water aerobics folks that workout daily in a vertical position and in a warm pool and never loose weight. They also have no intensity in their workout (I cant speak for their diet). Im not being hard on them I commend them for being active ;-)

joshua
February 9th, 2010, 11:49 PM
This?
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:2VUGIigYwAE2bM:http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/4704357/abs-main_Full.jpg)

What ever turns you on. Why not try for Americas Next Top Model (if there is a male version)?

We should all be aware that it is estimated that weight loss is between 60%-70% diet. A "six pack" and "killer abs" are achieved by killer dieting.

I am also a fairly big guy who concentrated on lifting for a long time. I got big but too fat and deconditioned. I was over 98kg. I cleaned up my diet alot, increased my cardio a bit (swimming and kettlebell work) and dropped to 91kg. in a few weeks. The "secret" was cutting carbs - especially bread (which I love). After a few months I "fell off the wagon" and right now I am around 94kg. I am trying to combat this with increased swimming, so far without success. On the other hand I have experimented by cutting carbs for 1 day without increasing cardio. The result was a loss of 0.5kg.-1kg. in a day.

The bottom line: if you are serious about weight loss and already doing alot of exercise, the answer is in the diet.

5out6aintbad
February 10th, 2010, 07:58 AM
My experience is one of significant weight loss through swimming.

I'm 6 foot 3 and until I turned 40 was 84kg. I sail competitively and had focused on keeping my body weight in a particular zone. I used to run to keep the weight down.

From 40 to 53 I went up to 93kg - basically because I got lazy and wasn't racing boats in any particularly competitve way. My knees are not great (from sailing) and so running became tricky.

Started swimming last May and lane swan until September about four hours a week 2500 to 3000m at a time. Didn't lose weight but improved conditioning. It transpires I was a very inefficient swimmer.

Joined a club in September and traineed 4 to 5 hours per week, focusing on technique. In two months I was down to 90kg and now I'm at 86kg. I'm leaner than I was at 84kg but my lats, pecs and shoulders are way bigger.

I think it is the intensity of coached training compared to my lane swimming that has made the difference. I can't really see that anything else has changed!

2fish&1whale
February 10th, 2010, 09:40 AM
This has been the most frustrating thing for me about swimming.
I was able to loose some weight doing more frequent and long swims,but I did a lot of kick work and less intense long sets.
Dropped the kick work to a few 100 Yrds as well as the # of days I swim,but upped the intensity of the sets and added biking and running/walking on the other days.
The result has been no weight loss,my shoulders are bigger than ever and I'm hungrier after working out now than I ever felt after 2 hour swims.
I'm not going back to 5X 3500yrds a week-I want to enjoy swimming not feel like I'm serving a sentence in the pool.
I need something to motivate me to keep hauling my butt to the gym.

I swim Back/Breaststroke only-based on that-am I screwed regardless what I do with my workout?

qbrain
February 10th, 2010, 10:09 AM
I need something to motivate me to keep hauling my butt to the gym.


A progressive weight lifting program (http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/)

CrossFit (http://www.crossfit.com/)

Personal Trainer

Classes (Core, Yoga, Spin, etc)

Training for an event. My gym has an indoor 1 hour tri at the end of the month, 10 minute swim, 20 minute run, 30 minute bike. This got more people in the pool than New Years did.

orca1946
February 10th, 2010, 12:28 PM
Great job in the loss.:applaud:

ande
February 10th, 2010, 12:33 PM
you lost weight
you're swimming
you've gained weight

BLUE: "I dropped 40 lbs, from 235 to 195 (I'm 6'3"). Breaking 190 was my goal, though 190 is probably where I should be."
"Over the last year of doing this, I've noticed more muscle I think, and my clothes all still fit right, but the scale is alarming me. I'm hovering around - and some weeks over - 200 again."
BLUE: think I've slipped in my eating habits (definitely did over the holidays),
I was wondering if anyone has seen this before?
ANDE: you answered your own question. I did it to myself too. The weight gain isn't something that happened to you, you did, consciously or unconsciously you made choices to eat and drink more that you need and your current weight range is a reflection of that

BLUE:"Are these sprints where I'm constantly trying to improve my times putting muscle on me that are causing me to fret over the weight gain?"
you might have gained some muscle but it happens slowly

do I just need to stay away from the fridge?
probably

I'm in the same boat as you. If we lug less lard we're likely to swim faster.




Just wondering if anyone had experienced this:

Started 2nd swimming life in fall 2007 and have been hard at it since. For the first 9 or 10 months, I was just swimming long and slow until I could go no more. I began throwing in some sprint sets after a good 1600 or so for the next few months. During this period, say a year or so, I dropped 40 lbs, from 235 to 195 (I'm 6'3"). Breaking 190 was my goal, though 190 is probably where I should be.

Throughout 2009, I could no longer stand the long swims and did more and more sets, 400's, 200's, 100s & 50's between a warm-up 500 and a warm down 500. My goal is 3000 - 3200/day and try to get as close to 16k per week as I can by doing some variation of the sets above.

Over the last year of doing this, I've noticed more muscle I think, and my clothes all still fit right, but the scale is alarming me. I'm hovering around - and some weeks over - 200 again.

I think I've slipped in my eating habits (definitely did over the holidays), but I was wondering if anyone has seen this before? Are these sprints where I'm constantly trying to improve my times putting muscle on me that are causing me to fret over the weight gain? Or do I just need to stay away from the fridge? Or what?

Blue

PS> I know all the sites regarding weight loss & swimming, I just want the answers from the horses' mouths. Thanks!

uknick
February 12th, 2010, 11:50 AM
What an interesting thread...

I recently purchased some new scales from Amazon – they are by a company called Tanita and measured all aspects of body composition most importantly % body fat, muscle mass and also water! They cost a small fortune, but I figured that it was a good investment as like all other athletes, I obsess about my weight and body fat and would ideally like an accurate measure rather than some kind of guesstimate! And before you all start wading, in I know there is a lot of debate about the accuracy of these kinds of scales – but if you Google Tanita and read around the subject you will find that the empirical evidence is that they are actually pretty accurate!

This particular model also has an “athlete” mode which caters for people who exercise beyond the norm and as such have different body dynamics. The most important thing is to hold as many things constant as possible and so measure yourself at the same time of day – ideally naked! These scales have handles which you grasp and then a current passes harmlessly through your body and measures resistance which in turn leads to all the measures (and more) listed above.

I have been using them for about a month and in that time have increased my swim training to around 18k with 20k of indoor rowing a small amount of running and 2-3 gym sessions. In that time my weight has dropped around 1.5kg and my BF by 1% to 14%. More importantly my muscle mass has also increased. I like others above do watch my diet and eat plenty of food but follow a lowish carb diet with additional protein and fat. As a past runner I have hit 7% BF but this was achieved with high mileage and frankly is not good for you! My target is to get down to 11-12% while maintaining my weight at around 73kg – so load with additional muscle.

There are cheaper models from Tanita but my guess is that the majority of older competitive athletes are motivated by body shape and so make these a good long term investment… BTW the water measurement is also VERY useful – I fluctuate by up to 2 litres a day and this can make a huge difference to weight – I actually use the scales to check on my hydration and adjust my fluid intake accordingly!

Cheers Nick

Twitter: uknick
Facebook: Nick Ballard (look for the ugly one!)
FB Group: competitive @ 50 (a group for the serious older athlete)

uknick
February 12th, 2010, 11:53 AM
in case anyone is interested....

Tanita BC545 Glass Electronic Bathroom Scale with Body Fat Analyser: Amazon.co.uk: Health & Beauty

joshua
February 12th, 2010, 11:38 PM
The bf measurements on the Tanita scale are extremely inaccurate and should not be relied upon. I looked into this after my wife got me a Tanita for my birthday last year and the reading were ridiculously high. See here for example:

http://healthread.net/tanita.htm

or just Google "are Tanita scales accurate"

Bottom line: save your money.

aztimm
February 13th, 2010, 12:57 AM
The bf measurements on the Tanita scale are extremely inaccurate and should not be relied upon. I looked into this after my wife got me a Tanita for my birthday last year and the reading were ridiculously high. See here for example:

http://healthread.net/tanita.htm

or just Google "are Tanita scales accurate"

Bottom line: save your money.

If you read the book, "Racing Weight," (you can find it on Amazon), they note that yes the Tanita (and other bf-measuring scales) are not 100% accurate. But they are one of the most affordable and convenient options out there for most of us. In that book, they say not to take the reading as gospel, but to note variances, week-to-week preferred.

I myself have a Tanita scale, I think it cost around $40 at Linens & Things about 4 years ago. I've seen my body fat go through several shifts as my training (and diet) changed.

I just posted a bit about this over in my blog here (http://forums.usms.org/blog.php?b=7988). Leslie (the Fortress) also has some info on that book in her blog.

uknick
February 13th, 2010, 09:19 AM
The bf measurements on the Tanita scale are extremely inaccurate and should not be relied upon. I looked into this after my wife got me a Tanita for my birthday last year and the reading were ridiculously high. See here for example:

http://healthread.net/tanita.htm

or just Google "are Tanita scales accurate"

Bottom line: save your money.

Yes you are right they are inaccurate - if you don’t use them correctly. As I said above it is critical to weigh yourself at the same time of day and also this model has an "athlete" mode which makes it far more accurate than those without. In the end you need something you can compare day to day, week to week even if they tend to overestimate BF which they do for many - it is still a measure to track....

As it happens I do have a set of callipers and have calibrated the scales against skin fold measurement and they are very close. Bear in mind that even using callipers the results vary considerably particularly if you use different protocols.

I am actually going to have my VO2 max tested at the university of Bath soon and have asked that they also test BF so that I can compare their findings against the Tanita scales as well.

In the round I would prefer to have the scales and the measures they give me than not to have them!

Thanks Nick

uknick
February 13th, 2010, 09:31 AM
Another interesting question around this point is – what is the ideal BF for swimming? I understand that many elite swimmers have BF in the region of 11-12% vs elite runners that would be well under 10%.

In weight bearing sport like running your VO2 Max goes up as you lose weight as it is measured in litres per KG per minute. So by default if all other factors remain stable as you get lighter your VO2 increases. Is this the case with swimming where weight is not such a crucial factor in moving quickly (I don’t think). If it was you would have a load of skinny distance swimmers as they would be quickest! There is obviously a trade off between power and weight but I guess this might be different for every swimmer??

So for me as a 73kg swimmer with stable body fat of around 14% would I get quicker if I developed more power through greater muscle mass but also in so doing increased my weight? In the end my objective is to swim quickly but it seems to maximise potential we need to understand the biomechanics and physiology of the ideal swimmer??

Cheers Nick

Twitter: uknick
Facebook: Nick Ballard (look for the ugly one!)
Facebook Group: competitive @ 50 (a group for the serious older athlete)

chowmi
February 15th, 2010, 10:57 AM
Here's a joke I heard, so I won't take credit for it!

Q: What's your body fat ratio?
A: For most people, 1.0 - One body, and fat = 1.00. If you have 2 bodies, then it's 2.0 and so on.

joshua
February 16th, 2010, 04:00 AM
Another interesting question around this point is – what is the ideal BF for swimming? I understand that many elite swimmers have BF in the region of 11-12% vs elite runners that would be well under 10%.

In weight bearing sport like running your VO2 Max goes up as you lose weight as it is measured in litres per KG per minute. So by default if all other factors remain stable as you get lighter your VO2 increases. Is this the case with swimming where weight is not such a crucial factor in moving quickly (I don’t think). If it was you would have a load of skinny distance swimmers as they would be quickest! There is obviously a trade off between power and weight but I guess this might be different for every swimmer??

So for me as a 73kg swimmer with stable body fat of around 14% would I get quicker if I developed more power through greater muscle mass but also in so doing increased my weight? In the end my objective is to swim quickly but it seems to maximise potential we need to understand the biomechanics and physiology of the ideal swimmer??

Nick,
Yes I also have read about the higher level of bf in swimmers as opposed to runners or cyclists. You bring up some interesting points. I would like to propose a few more.

First is the matter that swimmers must propel themselves through, namely water, as opposed to runners propelling themselves through air. The viscosity of water is much higher than air. Therefore swimming would naturally encourage greater muscle development than running since you are using more force. The 4-to-1 rule seems to apply. Therefore there is a great similarity in times between, say, the 400m. run and the 100m. swim.

Also since you are much lighter when in water, bw is less of a factor. I swim early in the morning, before work, with other regular swimmers. Some are very fast and efficient. None are what you would call thin and some are heavy (one of the best swimmers is, in fact,quite overweight). Almost all are well muscled (most do not lift weights and only swim). At my pool there is also a gym with many treadmills. I see the regular runners as I enter. They are all thin, some verging on anorexic. No muscular development to speak of. I realize that all this is anecdotal but I do feel that it is indicative.

Finally, the skill factor must be considered. Swimming is a very technical activity. Much more so than running. Technique is a greater factor in forward progression in swimming than in running. Therefore, the nature of swimming w/o's are different, with more time dedicated to technique. This improves swimming but does not facilitate weight loss.

So the bottom line is that if one's goal is strictly weight loss, swimming would not be the optimal method.

orca1946
February 16th, 2010, 12:24 PM
How about the ladies in good looking clothes that also look at you ?

Midas
February 16th, 2010, 05:54 PM
A progressive weight lifting program (http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/)

CrossFit (http://www.crossfit.com/)

Personal Trainer

Classes (Core, Yoga, Spin, etc)

Training for an event. My gym has an indoor 1 hour tri at the end of the month, 10 minute swim, 20 minute run, 30 minute bike. This got more people in the pool than New Years did.

I might try that 5x5 program... Also, a 1 hour indoor triathlon sounds pretty fun. What distance is a 10-minute swim?

uknick
February 16th, 2010, 06:13 PM
Nick,
Yes I also have read about the higher level of bf in swimmers as opposed to runners or cyclists. You bring up some interesting points. I would like to propose a few more.

First is the matter that swimmers must propel themselves through, namely water, as opposed to runners propelling themselves through air. The viscosity of water is much higher than air. Therefore swimming would naturally encourage greater muscle development than running since you are using more force. The 4-to-1 rule seems to apply. Therefore there is a great similarity in times between, say, the 400m. run and the 100m. swim.

Also since you are much lighter when in water, bw is less of a factor. I swim early in the morning, before work, with other regular swimmers. Some are very fast and efficient. None are what you would call thin and some are heavy (one of the best swimmers is, in fact,quite overweight). Almost all are well muscled (most do not lift weights and only swim). At my pool there is also a gym with many treadmills. I see the regular runners as I enter. They are all thin, some verging on anorexic. No muscular development to speak of. I realize that all this is anecdotal but I do feel that it is indicative.

Finally, the skill factor must be considered. Swimming is a very technical activity. Much more so than running. Technique is a greater factor in forward progression in swimming than in running. Therefore, the nature of swimming w/o's are different, with more time dedicated to technique. This improves swimming but does not facilitate weight loss.

So the bottom line is that if one's goal is strictly weight loss, swimming would not be the optimal method.

Joshua - some interesting observations... I think that as swimmers often our desire for low BF is often nothing to do with going quickly but eveything to do with our vanity and ego's.

In running there is most definately a benefit in having low BF but as you say some of my fastest swimming buddies are - shall we say carrying an inch or two around the middle!!

If this is the case then the question it begs - is will we be actually faster if we hold onto the spare tyre? I reckon over the last month I have lost 1-2% of BF through hard twice a day training - but I am not swimming any quicker - in fact I am probably slower!! But of course I look great in my Speedo's! :blush:

swimrocket
February 16th, 2010, 07:56 PM
I reckon over the last month I have lost 1-2% of BF through hard twice a day training - but I am not swimming any quicker - in fact I am probably slower!! But of course I look great in my Speedo's! :blush:[/QUOTE]

I am in the military and although I get perverse enjoyment from looking fat and swimming fast, I need to lose some BF and build an endurance base. It looks like I will have six months to focus on not much else besides work and swimming (I'm deploying to Kuwait). How many yards are you putting in each day? How many hours? How many rest days do you take each week? I'm trying to figure out a reasonable goal for myself. I'm 50 years old and right now I'm swimming 5-6 days a week, up to 3,500 meters/day.

swimrocket
February 16th, 2010, 07:59 PM
Don't underestimate the importance the military attaches to looking good in your speedos.

joshua
February 17th, 2010, 12:36 AM
Joshua - some interesting observations... I think that as swimmers often our desire for low BF is often nothing to do with going quickly but eveything to do with our vanity and ego's.



OK, but remember that weight control is at least 50%, and more likely closer to 70%, diet.



In running there is most definately a benefit in having low BF but as you say some of my fastest swimming buddies are - shall we say carrying an inch or two around the middle!!



Being a metric guy myself, I wouldn't know about those extra inches...lol




But of course I look great in my Speedo's! :blush:

I use jammers - problem solved!

uknick
February 17th, 2010, 01:04 AM
I reckon over the last month I have lost 1-2% of BF through hard twice a day training - but I am not swimming any quicker - in fact I am probably slower!! But of course I look great in my Speedo's! :blush:

I am in the military and although I get perverse enjoyment from looking fat and swimming fast, I need to lose some BF and build an endurance base. It looks like I will have six months to focus on not much else besides work and swimming (I'm deploying to Kuwait). How many yards are you putting in each day? How many hours? How many rest days do you take each week? I'm trying to figure out a reasonable goal for myself. I'm 50 years old and right now I'm swimming 5-6 days a week, up to 3,500 meters/day.[/QUOTE]

Hi Swimrocket - I'll tell you what - you tell me how to swim like a rocket and I'll tell you how to shed a few LBS! :D

As rightly pointed out shedding BF is mostly about the kitchen and not the sports hall - however you asked specifically how much exercise I have done to drop the two % (also 2KG). Well over the last month I have been training twice a day most days with one swim and one other activity. Swim mileage from 6 sessions is 18KM so 3KM on average a session and then on top of that I have rowed on a Concept 2 30-35km in two sessions and run once or twice around 16 km in total. The rest of the workouts are in the gym either lifting, circuit or core work. In hours this adds up to 12-14 hours in total.

On the diet front I eat plenty of calories but restrict my carb intake as I believe that we eat far too many carbs. So apart from my post workout high GI bread I have low carb/low GI until the evening when I will have a portion with my evening meal. I beleive strongly in plenty of health fat - so oily fish, avocados, seeds are a staple with loads of vegetables, salad, fruit (moderation) I also think that taking flaxseed oil helps to stoke the metabolic machine and so take a tablespoon of Udo's Oil every day. I eat plenty of protein including the fish, chicken, eggs and also up to three 25g shakes a day.

All in all my goal is to increase endurance and speed while building muscle, shedding fat and probably weight. But as I said previously I need a bit of a re-think because the volume of training is making me slower in the pool :confused: and that is not good. I have a swim meet in two and a half weeks time and so the focus from tomorrow is to build speed for swimming and drop the longer low intensity endurance rowing....

Phew - need a rest after all that!

Nick
Twitter: uknick
Facebook: Nick Ballard
Facebook Group: Competitive @ 50

uknick
February 17th, 2010, 01:07 AM
OK, but remember that weight control is at least 50%, and more likely closer to 70%, diet.



Being a metric guy myself, I wouldn't know about those extra inches...lol



I use jammers - problem solved!

As a child of the 1950's I am ambidextrous - metres, miles, inches, CM, pints, litres - need I go on? :chug:

Yes humans are greedy - 70% diaet is about right

Love my jammers!!!

joshua
February 17th, 2010, 09:37 AM
Well over the last month I have been training twice a day most days with one swim and one other activity. Swim mileage from 6 sessions is 18KM so 3KM on average a session and then on top of that I have rowed on a Concept 2 30-35km in two sessions and run once or twice around 16 km in total. The rest of the workouts are in the gym either lifting, circuit or core work. In hours this adds up to 12-14 hours in total.




Slacking off again mate ?

2fish&1whale
February 17th, 2010, 11:28 AM
A progressive weight lifting program (http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/)

CrossFit (http://www.crossfit.com/)

Personal Trainer

Classes (Core, Yoga, Spin, etc)

Training for an event. My gym has an indoor 1 hour tri at the end of the month, 10 minute swim, 20 minute run, 30 minute bike. This got more people in the pool than New Years did.

I like the idea of a 1hour tri-i'll suggest it to my Y.
The weight lifting-not so much-the last thing I need is bigger shoulders and more testosterone!
My biggest enemy is junk food and getting bored with my workout, so I'm really trying to watch my intake and mixing up my workout.I've added more biking,and some weights.My goal is to do 2 days each of swimming,biking and walking/running by spring.
If I don't loose any weight that way I'm out of ideas.

uknick
February 17th, 2010, 11:35 AM
Slacking off again mate ?

Actually crashed and burned today and need two days emergency rest - that'll teach me!! :bed:

qbrain
February 17th, 2010, 11:37 AM
What distance is a 10-minute swim?

Midas... are you messing with me?

The competition is to see who can get the furthest in an hour. I don't know the details, but maybe there is a multiplier for the swim and the run to make those legs as valuable as the bike.

qbrain
February 17th, 2010, 11:44 AM
My biggest enemy is junk food

I think this might be more important than working out.

joshua
February 17th, 2010, 12:01 PM
I think this might be more important than working out.

For weight loss the most important exercise is pushing yourself away from the table.

joshua
February 17th, 2010, 12:07 PM
Actually crashed and burned today and need two days emergency rest - that'll teach me!! :bed:

I hope you feel better soon.

How are you going to proceed as to your swimming meet?

Your slowing down in the pool was probably a precursor to your crash. Your body was trying to tell you to back off.

uknick
February 17th, 2010, 12:25 PM
I hope you feel better soon.

How are you going to proceed as to your swimming meet?

Your slowing down in the pool was probably a precursor to your crash. Your body was trying to tell you to back off.

Yes your're right. Plan now is to back right off the mileage and go for speed, speed, speed!! seriously I need to worry less about the perfect plan and more about the event i.e swimming 50/100/200 fast. We are never too old or proud to learn from our mistakes!!! :bitching:

2fish&1whale
February 17th, 2010, 01:38 PM
For weight loss the most important exercise is pushing yourself away from the table.

True-I do find though that the more frequently and longer I swim the harder it is to get away from the table.And I don't think swimming burns enough calories to justify the increase in appetite.

joshua
February 17th, 2010, 10:49 PM
True-I do find though that the more frequently and longer I swim the harder it is to get away from the table.And I don't think swimming burns enough calories to justify the increase in appetite.

From my own experience, swimming and weight lifting tend to increase my appetite post w/o while jogging tends to depress hunger and increase thirst. The only problem is that I love to swim and lift and not to jog. So my solution is to try to eat healthy, low carb food after my swim. As long as I don't eat alot of carbs (including sweets of course) I seem to be ok no matter how much I eat.