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Lui
April 20th, 2010, 05:48 PM
I was just reading this blog:http://chuckiev.blogspot.com/2010/04/swimming-thoughts-galore.html

This guy claims that he never swam before in his life. At first it took him 36 minutes to swim 1500 meters. After only one year he could swim that in LESS than half the time.
After 17 years of swimming I can't swim 1500 meters in less than 18 minutes. Either I'm doing something wrong or that guy is full of.....

Is it possible to get that fast THAT FAST?

__steve__
April 20th, 2010, 06:34 PM
1500M in 18 min is just 1.x min over world record time. Some people are fast bloomers

Couroboros
April 20th, 2010, 07:11 PM
I believe it's possible. He seems to have been quite fit beforehand. He has bicycled with the likes of Lance Armstrong.

There's a kid on my team who started swimming at age 16 coming up on two years ago now. He's probably 18 now and he is the fastest guy on the Senior team (which he has been so for about seven months, I'd say). My team isn't a slow one, either.

And what did he do right before swimming?

Track, cross country. :)

As compared to someone like myself, who did practically everything (especially if it was individual) when I was 7-13 years old, and then high school came when I buried my nose in books and writing and let the internet consume me, and I completely dropped any semblance of physical activity altogether until I was 20 years old. I have had and still have a lot of debts to pay off.

But "a Lannister always pays his debts." Gold star for whoever gets the reference!

pendaluft
April 20th, 2010, 07:59 PM
But "a Lannister always pays his debts." Gold star for whoever gets the reference!

Would that be Tyrion or Jaime?

Gold is the color for Lannisters!

Couroboros
April 20th, 2010, 08:09 PM
Hooray! Someone else here gets it! :D

I think it's both... but I like it better when it comes out of Tyrion's mouth.

rtodd
April 20th, 2010, 08:11 PM
That's sick fast, but possible given his age of 21 and competative cycling. The only missing ingredient is near perfect form and a feel for the water.

The time drops are huge for the first year, even first three years, then they flatten quickly. What's his 400IM time?

tjrpatt
April 20th, 2010, 09:10 PM
Maybe his mother had a one night stand with an Australian 1500 medalist! Once this guy started swimming, genetics kicked in, hardcore!!! ( I kid!)

I went from a 19:25 LCM free in May 2009 to a 18:24 in Aug. 2009 but I really had to bust my hump and the Aug 1500 LCM free was tapered.

18 minutes in one year is pretty phenomenal.

Lui
April 21st, 2010, 02:35 AM
Either I'm doing something wrong or that guy is full of.....


In other words I'm doing something wrong:cry:
I'm not even close to being that fast....Oh, well...I guess I'll continue my swimming at this pace:cane:
:D

Karl_S
April 21st, 2010, 08:54 AM
[stuff cut] ...guy claims that he never swam before in his life. At first it took him 36 minutes to swim 1500 meters. After only one year he could swim that in LESS than half the time.
[stuff cut]
Is it possible to get that fast THAT FAST?

That is amazing, but within the realm of possible. As an age-group and HS swimmer I saw some remarkable time drops. One kid, who was so slow that he wasn't even on my "radar screen" came back after a summer away and blew away everyone on the team in the 500 free. He must have gone from ~8 min to 5:15 over one summer.

lefty
April 21st, 2010, 10:40 AM
1500M in 18 min is just 1.x min over world record time. Some people are fast bloomers


Actually it is 4 minutes from the world record, which is a significant amount. I only frame that because a 15 minute 1500 (ie 1 minute off the WR) would be close to world class and I doubt that any non-swimmer could pull off that feat in one year. BUT clearly this guy has a ton of raw athletic / endurance talent and I am super-impressed with this achievement.

I also suspect that the 36 minute 1500 was not exactly a best effort. Kind of like the Biggest Loser: contestants pack on weight the week before the first weigh in.

lefty
April 21st, 2010, 11:01 AM
okay not to pooh-pooh anyone but I do have one small problem:

This was in the blog: "So, JD, ready for some 5K TTs at Scott Carpenter Pool when I return to Boulder?! Give me 12 weeks and we'll get you down to 48-minutes!"

Not one single soul in the world can do 5,000M in 48 minutes. It is possible he was referring to a 5,000Y in which case I would say there are a few people who can do that but none of them are swimming Masters, much less triathlons.

Sub 19 would have easily been a top 10 swim in 1990 in the 1500M (when the swim feat was accomplished) Hmmm, I wish the top 10 went back that far so we could see exactly what this guy did.

ande
April 21st, 2010, 11:23 AM
it's possible but unlikely

the World record for 1500 freestyle is 14:34.56 by Grant Hackett from Australia

We need to get more facts about his situation and the actual swim,
like:
scm or lcm,
how old was he?
I need more facts

as for you, stop Comparing and Despairing
Read Tip 80 Comparing and Desparing (http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=40466&postcount=289)

you can Swim Faster Faster (http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=210462&postcount=1405)
Read em & reap, now get to work

Ande




I was just reading this blog:http://chuckiev.blogspot.com/2010/04/swimming-thoughts-galore.html

This guy claims that he never swam before in his life. At first it took him 36 minutes to swim 1500 meters. After only one year he could swim that in LESS than half the time.
After 17 years of swimming I can't swim 1500 meters in less than 18 minutes. Either I'm doing something wrong or that guy is full of.....

Is it possible to get that fast THAT FAST?

Karen Duggan
April 21st, 2010, 11:25 AM
Lefty-
I think in cycling and in running, 5K is either 2.7 or 3.2 miles. I can never remember. Definitely do-able in 48 minutes.
:twocents:

knelson
April 21st, 2010, 11:27 AM
Sub 19 would have easily been a top 10 swim in 1990 in the 1500M (when the swim feat was accomplished) Hmmm, I wish the top 10 went back that far so we could see exactly what this guy did.

I'm wondering if it's a case of "the older I get, the faster I was." Remember he said he swam 1500 meters in "less than half the time" he did (36:00) a year before, so that means he went under 18:00. It's possible, but I'm definitely skeptical. I looked at the USMS archive site and a search for his last name (Veylupek) didn't come up with any matches.

tjrpatt
April 21st, 2010, 11:39 AM
I'm wondering if it's a case of "the older I get, the faster I was." Remember he said he swam 1500 meters in "less than half the time" he did (36:00) a year before, so that means he went under 18:00. It's possible, but I'm definitely skeptical. I looked at the USMS archive site and a search for his last name (Veylupek) didn't come up with any matches.

He could have done a Recognized Masters meet. You don't to be registered with USMS to do it. Don't get me started on these meets! :bitching: But, still, why would you swim a 1500 and not be registered with USMS so it could be in the Top Ten. That is the main reason why I do the 1500. OH yeah, I don't have any fast twitch muscles for sprinting.

knelson
April 21st, 2010, 11:41 AM
We need to get more facts about his situation and the actual swim,
like:
scm or lcm,
how old was he?

Based on other info he was born probably in 1969. He says he was 21 when he did that swim.

The guy is certainly a great athlete. He was 11th in the Hawaii Ironman in 1994 and won Ironman Canada one year. In Hawaii he was 15th coming out of the water with a time of 51:44. That's a pace of just over 20 minutes for 1500 meters.
http://ironman.com/assets/files/results/worldchampionship/1994.pdf

Chris Stevenson
April 21st, 2010, 11:57 AM
Sub 19 would have easily been a top 10 swim in 1990 in the 1500M (when the swim feat was accomplished) Hmmm, I wish the top 10 went back that far so we could see exactly what this guy did.

Top Ten from 1990 in 18-24 age group (sorry for the poor formatting):

Michael D Collins 24 17:29.87
Chris Sikes 24 18:39.30
Craig Paradee 21 18:42.40
Thorsten Anderson 23 19:25.30
Steve Olson 21 19:47.00
Geoff Ellett 21 20:15.27
Bruce D Christenson 23 21:00.39
Christopher J Krupiarz 23 21:12.42
Keith J Yost 21 21:45.10
James R Moore 23 21:55.13

The following swims are the only recorded TT times faster than 18 min that age group:

Keith Ryan 23 17:12.07 2007
James D Allen 24 17:12.51 1991
Brad Winsor 23 17:12.53 1995
Keith R Ryan 24 17:17.48 2008
David Spires 22 17:23.27 2005
Keith Ryan 22 17:24.11 2006
Steve Cohen 21 17:28.17 1993
Michael D Collins 24 17:29.87 1990
Sam J Chestnut 22 17:34.63 1992
Michael D Collins 23 17:43.31 1989
Matthew Roper 23 17:44.50 2004
Keith R Ryan 21 17:45.50 2005
Matthew D Roper 24 17:54.18 2005
Thomas A McCleary 24 17:55.72 1987
Jamie Lipszyc 24 17:56.71 1996
Shawn l Kline 24 17:57.59 1992

knelson
April 21st, 2010, 12:01 PM
Is this for long course, Chris? What about short course, or heck, even the 1650?

One of the guys in that list, Chris Krupiarz, was a teammate and friend of mine in age group swimming!

lefty
April 21st, 2010, 12:06 PM
Lefty-
I think in cycling and in running, 5K is either 2.7 or 3.2 miles. I can never remember. Definitely do-able in 48 minutes.
:twocents:

Read the article. It is very clear he is talking about a 5,000 swim (he mentions breaking it up into 10x 500's) The only question is meters or yards.

mctrusty
April 21st, 2010, 12:14 PM
okay not to pooh-pooh anyone but I do have one small problem:

This was in the blog: "So, JD, ready for some 5K TTs at Scott Carpenter Pool when I return to Boulder?! Give me 12 weeks and we'll get you down to 48-minutes!"

Not one single soul in the world can do 5,000M in 48 minutes. It is possible he was referring to a 5,000Y in which case I would say there are a few people who can do that but none of them are swimming Masters, much less triathlons.

Sub 19 would have easily been a top 10 swim in 1990 in the 1500M (when the swim feat was accomplished) Hmmm, I wish the top 10 went back that far so we could see exactly what this guy did.

Scott Carpenter is a LCM pool and a pretty slow one at that. Plus, it's at 5300 ft altitude.

knelson
April 21st, 2010, 12:20 PM
I think in cycling and in running, 5K is either 2.7 or 3.2 miles.

3.1 miles, actually.


Definitely do-able in 48 minutes.

Yeah, running or on a bike! :)

By the way, the fastest USMS time for the 5K postal is 58:23:56 by Jeff Erwin. Swimming a 5K in 48 minutes requires a pace of 57.6 seconds/100 meters and that's faster than Hackett's WR 1500 pace.

aquageek
April 21st, 2010, 12:23 PM
I just posted on his blog asking which meet he did this in. I'm not buying it.

lefty
April 21st, 2010, 12:24 PM
Based on other info he was born probably in 1969. He says he was 21 when he did that swim.

The guy is certainly a great athlete. He was 11th in the Hawaii Ironman in 1994 and won Ironman Canada one year. In Hawaii he was 15th coming out of the water with a time of 51:44. That's a pace of just over 20 minutes for 1500 meters.
http://ironman.com/assets/files/results/worldchampionship/1994.pdf

Yeah the dude has awesome credentials. He Q'd for Boston with a 112 Mile Bike as warmup.

scyfreestyler
April 21st, 2010, 12:28 PM
I wonder if push ups were his secret weapon. :bolt:

lefty
April 21st, 2010, 12:33 PM
I am having deja-vu.

The claim of the 5,000M swim in 48 minutes is...well... outrageously stupid. It is funny the things people claim when they think noone is listening. I wont say who, but an Olympian claimed he was going to swim an openwater 1500 in 13 minutes to a group of star-struck triathletes. Maybe he was planning on drafting, I hear you can get some amazing results from that strategy.

lefty
April 21st, 2010, 12:34 PM
I wonder if push ups were his secret weapon. :bolt:

Maybe 100 x 100's on 1:10

:bolt::bolt::bolt:

(I promise this comment was for comedic reasons only!)

knelson
April 21st, 2010, 12:40 PM
My gut feeling is this guy did make incredible improvements in his swimming in a short time, but he may be exaggerating a little, or maybe just not remembering his time from 20 years ago exactly. We can throw away the 48 minute 5K bit. Hopefully that part was a joke.

aquageek
April 21st, 2010, 12:41 PM
I wont say who, but an Olympian claimed he was going to swim an openwater 1500 in 13 minutes to a group of star-struck triathletes. Maybe he was planning on drafting, I hear you can get some amazing results from that strategy.

There are some OW events where this is theoretically possible for top swimmers, rivers and ocean with a serious current. But, I think this guy is full of it.

Jeff Commings
April 21st, 2010, 03:10 PM
I would have to have video proof or results from a swim meet to make sure this guy wasn't just gloating for the sake of gloating.

ande
April 21st, 2010, 03:54 PM
a friend of mine wrote a song called

"the older I get the better I used to be (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shamblin/from/ande)"

maybe his story morphed overtime, it's difficult to improve that much

lefty
April 21st, 2010, 04:16 PM
He is claiming his "guys at USA Swimming" espoused bilatteral breathing. I could be wrong, but I don't think that any elite coaches have recommended bilatteral breathing for 30 years. Anyone with more knowledge on the matter?

elise526
April 21st, 2010, 04:46 PM
I just posted on his blog asking which meet he did this in. I'm not buying it.

I agree. Maybe he meant that he almost cut his time in half. I could buy into him getting down to 20 minutes, but not under 18.

lefty
April 21st, 2010, 05:01 PM
Colorado record is 18:57 for age group

http://www.comsa.org/records/COMSA-Records09.pdf

Chris Stevenson
April 21st, 2010, 05:18 PM
Is this for long course, Chris? What about short course, or heck, even the 1650?

One of the guys in that list, Chris Krupiarz, was a teammate and friend of mine in age group swimming!

Yes, it was LCM. For SCM that year there were only 9 swimmers, none faster than 20 minutes:

Terence W Kerrigan 22 20:27.50
Michael A Bell 21 20:42.62
Joey Lee 22 20:44.80
Curt McLellan 24 23:19.73
Craig Conner 23 23:30.66
Stuart A Barton 22 23:48.10
George A Klamo 22 26:06.15
James A Weis 21 26:13.63
Greg Matteck 23 32:52.24

Here are all the TT times recorded for that age group under 18 min:

Jeff Poppell 23 16:15.25 1993
Brad Winsor 24 16:18.65 1995
David Spires 22 16:39.09 2005
Andy Nonaka 24 16:48.74 2003
Travis J Carranza 23 17:02.39 2007
Michael D Collins 23 17:03.17 1989
Jay Griffin 21 17:04.97 1996
Matt Grahn 23 17:12.50 1995
James Boegman 24 17:43.37 1988
Ryan White 22 17:44.22 1996
John C Scurlock 24 17:49.06 1989
Max R Biessmann 23 17:57.10 2008
Alexander Payne 24 17:58.12 2008
Travis J Carranza 24 17:58.92 2008

In SCY, the TT times in 1990 for the 1650 were

Michael D Collins 24 17:05.44
Mike Lotz 24 17:27.98
Paul A Eure 24 17:38.00
Richard J Wills 20 18:43.57
Paul Von Destinon 23 18:43.75
Steve Plamondon 24 18:49.73
Mark O Smith 22 18:58.27
Steven G Behrens 23 19:19.26
Thorsten Anderson 23 19:35.68
John W Armfield 24 20:03.01

There were many people (70+) in the TT in that age group who have been faster than 18 minutes in the 1650 over the years, so I won't list them all. But I didn't see his name in any Top Ten listing for the 1650 or 1500 in any course.

BUT...Tom is right in that, if he swam in a Recognized meet but wasn't a USMS member, his time wouldn't appear in the TT. Heck, there are lots of official USMS times that weren't submitted for TT consideration, especially 20 years ago. I know for a fact that some years, my predecessor TT Recorders in Virginia would fail to submit times.

So all I can say is that I am unable to confirm that his time ever appeared in the official USMS Top Ten, which isn't quite the same thing as saying he never did it (an "absence of proof is not proof of absence" type of thing.)

ourswimmer
April 21st, 2010, 05:29 PM
He is claiming his "guys at USA Swimming" espoused bilatteral breathing. I could be wrong, but I don't think that any elite coaches have recommended bilatteral breathing for 30 years. Anyone with more knowledge on the matter?

Not for the pool, but I gather from reading about elite-level OW training that coaches do recommend bilateral breathing for OW specialists, which should include aspiring elite-level triathletes.


Maybe he meant that he almost cut his time in half.

My thought too. Maybe he is rounding rather generously.

At the same time, I have no trouble believing that a gifted athlete in his early 20s could go from being barely capable to being totally competent or even really good in a year, by paying a lot more attention than most people do to technique, and by using top-level coaching and lots of technology for feedback.

lefty
April 21st, 2010, 06:01 PM
Not for the pool, but I gather from reading about elite-level OW training that coaches do recommend bilateral breathing for OW specialists, which should include aspiring elite-level triathletes.


So here is my question: why should OW swimmers bilateral? It doesn't make sense to me. Waves were crashing down to my right at my last OW ocean swim and I had to breath to the left. I never do that. OH well. I am not going to swim improperly due to a rare occurrence. As for sighting. Hmmm, not sure what possible advnatage you get from looking left and right. I am more concerned about what is ahead of me.

orca1946
April 21st, 2010, 06:05 PM
Eating waves on the breathing side for the swim is not fun ! :badday:

ourswimmer
April 21st, 2010, 06:31 PM
So here is my question: why should OW swimmers bilateral? It doesn't make sense to me.

So as not to derail this thread, GIYF (as is the search function here). Other details of the blogger's story may be implausible, but I don't find that aspect to be.

elise526
April 21st, 2010, 07:05 PM
I have no trouble believing that a gifted athlete in his early 20s could go from being barely capable to being totally competent or even really good in a year, by paying a lot more attention than most people do to technique, and by using top-level coaching and lots of technology for feedback.

Same here. The only problem is that some forget it does take somebody extremely gifted to do such a thing.

Over the years, I really enjoyed coaching triathletes in the pool. At times, though, I found it a little frustrating when some did not understand that one does not become a good swimmer overnight. As a former triathlete, I found it pretty easy to become a decent cyclist within one year, but I think that is how it works for most people who take on triathlons. Hence, they come to the pool with the same expectation about swimming.

knelson
April 21st, 2010, 07:17 PM
As for sighting. Hmmm, not sure what possible advnatage you get from looking left and right.

How about sighting other competitors? I don't want someone to sneak by me on the left because I'm always breathing to the right and didn't see him/her. I don't think bilateral breathing is important for OW swimmers, but the ability to breathe comfortably to both sides is.

lefty
April 22nd, 2010, 10:33 AM
So as not to derail this thread, GIYF (as is the search function here). Other details of the blogger's story may be implausible, but I don't find that aspect to be.

When the founders of this forum established the framework their intention was to have threads be alive. Threads change direction to reflect the changing views and spin off topics that are inevitable when conversation progresses. And besides, pointing back to older threads as rule of law implies that innovation does not occur.

Oh and I don't know what GIYF means.

Tothe original question: is it possible to improve from 36:00 to sub 18:00 in one year in the 1500M, I think the answer is *maybe* but it probably has never been done before.

Chris Stevenson
April 22nd, 2010, 01:20 PM
Oh and I don't know what GIYF means.

"Google is your friend." At least, that's what I found out when I googled it... :) And it seems to make sense in the context of the post.

pendaluft
April 22nd, 2010, 04:30 PM
http://www.acronymfinder.com/

has answered a lot of these questions for me.

lastof7
April 22nd, 2010, 08:28 PM
Is this for long course, Chris? What about short course, or heck, even the 1650?

One of the guys in that list, Chris Krupiarz, was a teammate and friend of mine in age group swimming!

Hey Kirk, long time no see! :) My sister stumbled across this thread and let me know. I see later that Chris clarified that it was LCM, but I really think it was a SCY 1650 time at UMBC. My memory may be foggy, but I really don't recall doing any long course 1500s during that time. That's back when Teresa and I were training for Chesapeake Bay Swim in case you were wondering what the heck I was doing trying to be a distance swimmer. ;)

Chris Krupiarz

rtodd
April 22nd, 2010, 08:35 PM
I did a tri with a 1000m swim leg as a complete non swimmer and went around 26min. I do this tri every year as a relay and I slowly moved it down to 16:30, but it took five hard years of swimming to do it and it did not all come the first year. In fact the biggest time drop was the second year of training.

If this guy cut it in half in the first year to an 18min, then I think he was on track to make an Olympic Trials bid with five more years of training or so. Where did the rest of his swimming career take him?

Lui
April 23rd, 2010, 03:33 AM
as for you, stop Comparing and Despairing
Read Tip 80 Comparing and Desparing (http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=40466&postcount=289)

you can Swim Faster Faster (http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=210462&postcount=1405)
Read em & reap, now get to work

Ande

Thanks, I needed that:blush:
Your thread is great btw. I'm getting to work now:agree:

lefty
April 23rd, 2010, 10:56 AM
I did a tri with a 1000m swim leg as a complete non swimmer and went around 26min. I do this tri every year as a relay and I slowly moved it down to 16:30, but it took five hard years of swimming to do it and it did not all come the first year. In fact the biggest time drop was the second year of training.

If this guy cut it in half in the first year to an 18min, then I think he was on track to make an Olympic Trials bid with five more years of training or so. Where did the rest of his swimming career take him?


I don't know what the trial cut in the 1500 was in 1992, I am going to guess around 16:20. If someone went from 36:00 to 17:45 with their goggles falling off (and a run of the mill masters meet where they probably lapped the field) then the implication is that said swimmer could qualify for trials with just a few more months of training.