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pwolf66
April 22nd, 2010, 12:49 PM
For those not sure about the rules, this is a very nice little site that has video and a breakdown of the rules.

http://www.strokeandturn.com/

trout
April 22nd, 2010, 01:45 PM
Wow- that's a great site! Thank you for the tip.

aquageek
April 22nd, 2010, 02:14 PM
Maybe we can turn this thread into our annual debate over DQing Summer League kids. You - big, mean dream killer. Me - kind, gentle caring, loving and supporting.

Calvin S
April 22nd, 2010, 02:24 PM
Maybe we can turn this thread into our annual debate over DQing Summer League kids. You - big, mean dream killer. Me - kind, gentle caring, loving and supporting.

I believe in DQing them always, if only because then, at the championship meet, when the kid opens up on his 25 breast with 3 freestyle strokes, I don't have to hear "well they have been letting him do that all season so why not now too?"

aquageek
April 22nd, 2010, 02:37 PM
I believe in DQing them always, if only because then, at the championship meet, when the kid opens up on his 25 breast with 3 freestyle strokes, I don't have to hear "well they have been letting him do that all season so why not now too?"

Valid point and one Wolf makes.

Our championship meet is basically just year rounders anyway and is strictly officiated. I'm more talking about the poor 6/7 shrimps that Wolf DQs. Small tears - broken hearts.

Calvin S
April 22nd, 2010, 02:45 PM
Valid point and one Wolf makes.

Our championship meet is basically just year rounders anyway and is strictly officiated. I'm more talking about the poor 6/7 shrimps that Wolf DQs. Small tears - broken hearts.


When I swam summer club in high school my league was also dominated by the year rounders, but since our champ meet was huge and scored top 16, a lot of those shrimps in the lowr age groups helped make a difference, and it sucked to lose the meet because younger kids didnt get DQ'd for stuff they should not have been doing.

i am reminded of a child who swam the entire B final of the 25 fly freestyle and was allowed to score because the official who was presiding over that lane felt sorry for her. i guess i inherit my harsh views from my mother, who would DQ her own children without batting an eyelid (she DQ'd me twice in the same 200 fly once when i was 13)

osterber
April 22nd, 2010, 02:49 PM
My recollection is that in most of our non-championship summer league meets, if the meet wasn't close/competitive, a lot of borderline cases for the really little kids were not officially called, but reported to the coach as an almost-call. Coach can deal with it however he/she wants to.

-Rick

swimmj
April 22nd, 2010, 03:14 PM
Valid point and one Wolf makes.

Our championship meet is basically just year rounders anyway and is strictly officiated. I'm more talking about the poor 6/7 shrimps that Wolf DQs. Small tears - broken hearts.

Ah, but being DQed when you at 7 is much better than being DQed for the first time at 55. And it's a teaching moment for the kids. After the first few meets of the season, I can stand at the end of the pool and raise my hand like an official, and the kids instantly know what I mean. I coach, and I have sometimes had to tell my kids, "you were not DQed on that swim, but you should have been, and you gained an unfair advantage on the field by doing 3 dolphin kicks off the start on your breaststroke pulldown...."

And I do tell my 8 and unders that the officials don't want to DQ them but have to be fair to everyone. They do get it, sometimes with tears, but the ones that cry rarely get DQed for the same thing again. Harder to deal with are the kids that know better, but are not thinking and repeatedly DQ for simple stuff. Makes a coach want to hit their head on the table....

thewookiee
April 22nd, 2010, 04:00 PM
i guess i inherit my harsh views from my mother, who would DQ her own children without batting an eyelid (she DQ'd me twice in the same 200 fly once when i was 13)

My mom did the same to me, in the same event. She reminded me about it on the way home from the meet, a 3 hour trip.


If the call is questionable, I will give the benefit to the swimmer(regardless of age) but inform the coaching staff. If the swimmer has a clear rule infraction, regardless of age, they should be disqualified.

That Guy
April 22nd, 2010, 04:18 PM
Ah, but being DQed when you at 7 is much better than being DQed for the first time at 55.

There's truth in that. We had an SCY meet this spring in the same pool that annually hosts the Washington State Senior Games, or whatever they're called. I heard one of the officials telling a story from that meet - he DQ'd a guy, and not only did the guy argue the DQ, and demand that the DQ be reversed, he actually punched the official in the face! Then, since the punch in the face somehow still didn't result in a reversal of the DQ (because you know in Crazy Land, it totally would), the guy threatened to go get his gun out of his car! So the cops were called at the Senior Games that year... craziness...

Calvin S
April 22nd, 2010, 07:57 PM
had a friend, and this friend was doing the 200 im and dove in and did the first 25 fly minus the last stroke into the turn one-armed fly. now, if thats not astonishing enough, my mother was the referee (this is back when the ref was on the other side with the old recall system) and couldnt dq him cause he kicked out past her jurisdiction. this guy's father was the turn judge on that side of the pool, but the stroke judge on that side (the guy was in lane 8 mind you) didnt pay any attention. so we all watched as he did a full 25 one arm fly, and didnt get dq'ed. he never quite lived that one down.

Allen Stark
April 22nd, 2010, 09:23 PM
At a pentathlon last year a friend of mine who is an ace backstroker made an interesting error in the 100 IM.He came into the wall on the BK/BR turn and flipped on to his stomach.Realizing his mistake he flipped on to his back and as his head came back up exclaimed"Oh S:censor:" loud enough for everyone at that end of the pool to hear.Amazingly he wasn't DQd.Another friend laughingly told him"the turn judge is the only one in the building who didn't see that."

gobears
April 23rd, 2010, 07:39 AM
I swear, it's the reaction of the parent that makes a DQ so horrific in the eyes of the young swimmer. If every coach just explained to the swimmers that DQ's are a part of the learning process and that it's not something to be afraid of, it would go a long way. Might as well teach the kids to do it right from the start!