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Allen Stark
April 28th, 2010, 07:34 PM
Looking at the Top Times there seem to be more results missing than usual.(I know of 3 meets not listed,that has never happened before and that is just the meets I know.)Previously anyone could submit the times and sometimes I did if I saw they were online and Top Times didn't have them.Now that is no longer an option evidently.I don't want to bug meet directors but how can we get all the meets listed.If current trends continue some people are going to be very surprised when TT comes out and they drop 5-6 places.

The Fortress
April 28th, 2010, 08:37 PM
Looking at the Top Times there seem to be more results missing than usual.(I know of 3 meets not listed,that has never happened before and that is just the meets I know.)Previously anyone could submit the times and sometimes I did if I saw they were online and Top Times didn't have them.Now that is no longer an option evidently.I don't want to bug meet directors but how can we get all the meets listed.If current trends continue some people are going to be very surprised when TT comes out and they drop 5-6 places.

Methinks you need to have a conversation with Jeff Roddin about the burdens of USMS administrators. :bolt:

Don't most people know that current times will be significantly revised when the Zones and Nats results come in?

tjrpatt
April 28th, 2010, 09:34 PM
some meet directors don't know or use meet manager or they lose their meet manager files. I experience this in my LMSC.

ALM
April 28th, 2010, 10:14 PM
Allen,

There are several ways that meet results are tracked on the USMS web site. Let me briefly explain each of them.

If you go to www.usms.org and mouse over the "Competition" tab, you will see these subcategories:

Meet Results
Event Rankings (used to be "Top Times")
Individual Results
Top Ten


1) Meet Results: This is a collection of links to meet results that are posted on other (usually club or LMSC) web sites. None of this data is stored on the USMS web site; it is merely a collection of links. Anyone (swimmer, coach, innocent bystander) can submit a link using the form on that page. A staff member verifies the link before it is added to the published list.

2) Event Rankings: This used to be called "Top Times" but people were getting it confused with Top Ten so the name was changed. This is a database that resides on the USMS web site. It consists of results from every meet submitted during a given year. Anyone can submit results from a meet, but they must be in one of three acceptable formats: SDIF format, or Hy-Tek's Commlink format, or Meet Manager backup zip format. Meet results in another format, such as an Excel spreadsheet or a PDF document, cannot be submitted because they cannot be imported into the database. Meet results may be submitted via email to MeetResults(at)usms(dot)org; they will be added into the database by the awesome Jeanne Seidler. :bow: A number of LMSC Top Ten recorders have been trained in how to upload results directly into the database rather than emailing them to Jeanne.

The Event Rankings database contains unverified meet results. Not all of these results will make it into the USMS Top Ten. For example, if it is found that a pool was not properly measured, the times from that meet will not be considered for the annual Top Ten tabulation.

The Event Rankings display swims by known USMS members and by swimmers whose current membership status is unknown. (A swimmer with unknown status shows up in red.) If someone has been positively identified as a non-USMS member, their results will not appear in the Event Rankings.

3) Individual Results: This is pulled from the same database as the Event Rankings. It features query tools to allow searches for specific swimmers. Swimmers with unknown registration status, as well as known non-members, appear in red in these listings.

4) Top Ten: The Top Ten rankings are compiled each year by our Records and Tabulation Committee volunteers. They are compiled from submissions from our 52 LMSC Top Ten Recorders, who have verified the accuracy of the results of the meets held in their LMSCs. Only confirmed USMS members appear in the Top Ten tabulations.

----
Part of the problem with getting meet results is that right now there are 52 separate sanctioning processes (one in every LMSC), and no centralized sanction database. So USMS doesn't have visibility of every meet that is held throughout the country. It is up to the LMSC volunteers to follow up on the meets that they sanction and collect the results after the meet is held.

Many times it is a pain to try to track down the Hy-Tek file after the fact. I suggest that an LMSC find a representative to take a jump drive to the meet. At the end of the meet, ask the computer operator to put the Hy-Tek backup file onto the jump drive. That way the LMSC has a backup, in case the meet director does not follow through with sending the results to the LMSC.

jroddin
April 29th, 2010, 07:52 AM
Many times it is a pain to try to track down the Hy-Tek file after the fact. I suggest that an LMSC find a representative to take a jump drive to the meet. At the end of the meet, ask the computer operator to put the Hy-Tek backup file onto the jump drive. That way the LMSC has a backup, in case the meet director does not follow through with sending the results to the LMSC.

I would like to add a word of caution on this last option. Most meet directors find errors the day after the meet and correct them prior to making their results official. So the file at the immediate conclusion of the meet is better than nothing, but usually not exactly the same as the final results. If it is my meet, I would not be comfortable giving out the backup file at the conclusion of the meet and would not export it to anybody until the results are official - otherwise it is too risky that the files get confused as to which one is official and which one is not.

Chris Stevenson
April 29th, 2010, 08:53 AM
Previously anyone could submit the times and sometimes I did if I saw they were online and Top Times didn't have them.Now that is no longer an option evidently.

The policy has not been changed. Anna Lea gives a good explanation. As she said, anyone can submit the results but you have to have the file in the proper format:

http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/submitmeet.php

(It says "meet director" but it doesn't have to be; it is just that it is usually the meet director who has the proper file. My impression is that, in practice, it is usually the meet director or the LMSC's top ten recorder who does the submission.)

But don't get confused with this:

http://www.usms.org/comp/addresults.php

which is where anyone can submit a link to meet results posted online. These results are not added to the meet results database.

There have always been meets missing from he meet results database; I don't think it is getting worse (actually I think the submission rate is improving). The list of meets included in the database (and hence the "Current Event Rankings") is here:

http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/

Although there are meets going back to 2000, it looks like submissions began in earnest in 2004 or 2005. I suppose if someone is enterprising enough, s/he can count the number of meets submitted by year and check for trends. I'll probably get to it some day...

Chris Stevenson
April 29th, 2010, 09:13 AM
I suppose if someone is enterprising enough, s/he can count the number of meets submitted by year and check for trends. I'll probably get to it some day...

Okay, I went ahead and did it (anything to put off grading) and have attached the results. Submissions have been going up over the years, as I suspected. But last year we had 148 meets submitted that occurred before Apr 25, and this year there are only 119. There might be more submitted later; I guess it is a little harsh to give meet directors or TT recorders less than a week to get their results submitted...(but congrats to the two who did so).

ande
April 29th, 2010, 09:48 AM
here's where people check their times (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/toptimes.php)


2010 SCY South Central Zones Results (http://www.asicampbell.com/SCZ-SC/usms_scz_sc_results_2010.pdf) aren't in it yet

chowmi
April 29th, 2010, 11:54 AM
Allen,

There are several ways that meet results are tracked on the USMS web site. Let me briefly explain each of them.


If you go to www.usms.org (http://www.usms.org) and mouse over the "Competition" tab, you will see these subcategories:

Meet Results
Event Rankings (used to be "Top Times")
Individual Results
Top Ten

1) Meet Results: This is a collection of links to meet results that are posted on other (usually club or LMSC) web sites. None of this data is stored on the USMS web site; it is merely a collection of links. Anyone (swimmer, coach, innocent bystander) can submit a link using the form on that page. A staff member verifies the link before it is added to the published list.

2) Event Rankings: This used to be called "Top Times" but people were getting it confused with Top Ten so the name was changed. This is a database that resides on the USMS web site. It consists of results from every meet submitted during a given year. Anyone can submit results from a meet, but they must be in one of three acceptable formats: SDIF format, or Hy-Tek's Commlink format, or Meet Manager backup zip format. Meet results in another format, such as an Excel spreadsheet or a PDF document, cannot be submitted because they cannot be imported into the database. Meet results may be submitted via email to MeetResults(at)usms(dot)org; they will be added into the database by the awesome Jeanne Seidler. :bow: A number of LMSC Top Ten recorders have been trained in how to upload results directly into the database rather than emailing them to Jeanne.

The Event Rankings database contains unverified meet results. Not all of these results will make it into the USMS Top Ten. For example, if it is found that a pool was not properly measured, the times from that meet will not be considered for the annual Top Ten tabulation.

The Event Rankings display swims by known USMS members and by swimmers whose current membership status is unknown. (A swimmer with unknown status shows up in red.) If someone has been positively identified as a non-USMS member, their results will not appear in the Event Rankings.

3) Individual Results: This is pulled from the same database as the Event Rankings. It features query tools to allow searches for specific swimmers. Swimmers with unknown registration status, as well as known non-members, appear in red in these listings.

4) Top Ten: The Top Ten rankings are compiled each year by our Records and Tabulation Committee volunteers. They are compiled from submissions from our 52 LMSC Top Ten Recorders, who have verified the accuracy of the results of the meets held in their LMSCs. Only confirmed USMS members appear in the Top Ten tabulations.

----
Part of the problem with getting meet results is that right now there are 52 separate sanctioning processes (one in every LMSC), and no centralized sanction database. So USMS doesn't have visibility of every meet that is held throughout the country. It is up to the LMSC volunteers to follow up on the meets that they sanction and collect the results after the meet is held.

Many times it is a pain to try to track down the Hy-Tek file after the fact. I suggest that an LMSC find a representative to take a jump drive to the meet. At the end of the meet, ask the computer operator to put the Hy-Tek backup file onto the jump drive. That way the LMSC has a backup, in case the meet director does not follow through with sending the results to the LMSC.

This is awesome, and comprehensive! I never knew you could directly upload to event rankings! Jeannie has always done this for me. She is totally awesome! So is Mary Beth Windrath. And for anyone worried about NT, I already submitted official top ten SCY for 2010 before leaving for the zone meet, 04/09. The official top ten submission excludes the mystery 100IM from the B70 shootout, which seems to appear in event rankings. It seems since the initial round of gripes, not a peep has been heard again, since everyone who griped was asked to be the next top ten recorder.....

Ahelee Sue Osborn
April 29th, 2010, 01:40 PM
Robert Mitchell has a new company called SwimPhone.com

http://www.swimphone.com/mobile/meets

Heat sheets and results are immediately available on deck by phone - at the meets!

We have a team member who does not want to swim meets, but her husband does. She acts as a team manager, sitting in the team area poolside and pulls all the heat/lane assignments for everyone during the meet!

After the UCLA Meet, I pulled my clip board out of my backpack and she had written out all the splits and final times for each swimmer.

Hardly gets better than this for a coach!

Awesome Robert :)