PDA

View Full Version : weight loss



jerrycat
August 11th, 2003, 09:27 AM
Hey Everyone!

I've noticed that it was so much easier to loose weight with running, as opposed to swimming. It seems even though i'm swimming hard, the 13 or so pounds that I need to loose haven't budged. When I was running, my diet didn't have to be really clean...in fact I ate pizza at least once a week, and found that it helped me during high mileage. During running, my weight was very low despite the pizza habit. While swimming makes me hungrier, and I'm probably burning more calories per workout, the weight loss isn't there.

Why is this?

Thanks,
Jerrycat

eliana2003
August 11th, 2003, 10:09 AM
Admittedly, I'm not a sports expert, but I've heard that swimming will NOT take weight off... However, I do find (that at least with me) I tend to tone up rather well (as I'm rather stocky, I get muscular really easily), but my weight goes up, because muscle weighs more than fat...

Have you toned up at all? Maybe it's that the muscle that you've been building is counter-acting the weight loss that would otherwise be noticeable on the scale...


peace...

mattson
August 11th, 2003, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by eliana2003
Maybe it's that the muscle that you've been building is counter-acting the weight loss that would otherwise be noticeable on the scale...

In high school, I could tell I was getting in shape because my weight would increase during the season (muscle mass from the weights and swim workouts). That has now changed to "getting in shape = weight loss" due to the spare tire around the waist. :(

Shaky
August 11th, 2003, 12:00 PM
Evolution.

The muscles in the lower body, mostly "dark meat," have evolved in such a way that the body powers them by burning fat. Body fat provides an almost limitless source of energy, allowing the muscles to be used for long periods of time, while walking long distances. Lower body exercise like walking, running or biking taps into these muscles' ability to burn fat.

The muscles in the upper body are mostly "white meat" and have evolved to be powered by burning glycogen stored in the muscles themselves. These muscles evolved for quick bursts of activity, such as throwing, grasping, tearing or lifting, instead of sustained activity.

Since it takes more time to get energy out of stored fat, the glycogen serves as a quick start system. The white muscles will burn fat, but the body resists letting them do it until their glycogen reserves are depleted. Likewise, the dark muscles will burn glycogen for quick bursts of speed, but are optimized to burn fat. The two types of muscle correspond roughly to aerobic and anaerobic exercise, swimming having a large anaerobic component provided by the resistance of the water.

Since more muscle mass can store more glycogen, working muscles anaerobically will cause the body to react by building muscle. Exercise that is more aerobic will build less muscle, since the the muscle mass isn't necessary to store glycogen to power the muscles that way.

To put that all into the context of your question, when you run, you are not building very much muscle, but you are burning fat. You're losing fat weight without building muscle weight. When you swim, even though you lose fat, you will not lose it as efficiently as when running because the muscles in use don't draw on the fat reserves as readily. Meanwhile, you're also building muscle when you swim, which offsets the weight you lose from fat.

You also mentioned the hunger that comes from swimming. That's a direct result of glycogen depletion. When you burn the glycogen out of your muscles, your body will want to replenish it as quickly as possible in order to be ready for the next burst of activity. When you burn fat through lower body exercise, the body tends to keep running on the fat reserves for a while once the process has gone into high gear, and it thinks that it doesn't need any additional fuel. Thus hunger is suppressed.

For many swimmers trying to lose weight, the loss of glycogen causes a craving for carbohydrates. Carbs are the quickest way to replenish the glycogen in the muscles. The problem is that eating carbs without a balancing portion of protein causes them to hit the blood system as sugar more quickly than the muscles can absorb them, and the blood sugar level spikes. To counter that spike, the body releases insulin. Insulin triggers the formation of fat; it causes the sugar to be taken out of the bloodstream and stored for future use in the fat cells.

Tell me if this sounds familiar: You get out of the pool starving. You eat something starchy to satisfy your hunger. But half an hour later you desperately want a nap, and if you don't get it your brain goes into a fog.

That's caused by an insulin spike. Your body wants glycogen, so you give it carbs. Insulin is released to get rid of the excess. It works too well, so your blood sugar goes a little low. When your blood sugar goes low, your body responds by trying to shut down for a while to recover.

You can avoid that by eating some protein with your carbs. The protein is more difficult to digest, and when it is mixed with the carbs in the digestive system it prevents them from being absorbed as rapidly. Thus, the body can keep up with the sugar entering the system without releasing an insulin spike, thus avoiding issuing a command to the body to store fat.

Finally, that business about running keeping you from being hungry because it jostles your internal organs is a wives' tale. You can pound on someone's abdomen with a billy club, but if his muscles are depleted of glycogen he'll still be hungry.

jerrycat
August 11th, 2003, 01:53 PM
Shaky,
Thanks so much for that thorough answer. Finally I understand what's going on! When I was running--it was always long distance in training for full length marathons. That's why I could scarf down the pizza with no effect. Now I'm injured and not running or even walking, but finally went to a doc, and think I'm going to be ok in about 8 weeks.

Since I understand what's going on now I'm going to add some eliptical machine to help burn fat. Lord knows my jeans could stand to be a little less suffocating!

Thanks!!
JoAnne ;)

exrunner
August 11th, 2003, 04:38 PM
The fundamental rule of weight loss is

3500 calorie deficit (surplus) = 1 pound weight loss (gain).

This equation holds true whether your calorie expenditure is from swimming or running, and whether your calorie intake is in the form of pizza or alfalfa sprouts. The equation is also true whether your weight loss is from lean tissue or fat.

If you want to lose weight from swimming, and don't mind doing a little arithmetic, (1) Figure out how many calories you need in a day (2) Keep a daily log of what you eat and how much you swim, (3) ensure that you maintain a (let's say) 500 calorie defict each day. That would put you on track to lose one pound a week. There are free websites for doing all of the calculations above.

I lost 30 pounds myself using this approach. It's not that difficult, and there's a certain satisfaction.

Bill Volckening
August 11th, 2003, 06:44 PM
I respectfully disagree with the statement that you can't lose weight swimming.

Last year, I lost 70 lbs. in eight months. Swimming was, and still is, my only exercise activity.

The first 50 came off quickly in 4 months, and the last 20 came off a little less quickly, in 4 months. I went from a size 42 waist to a 34, and after the first 50 lbs., when buying a dress shirt I learned my neck measurement was an inch smaller.

In addition to losing the weight quickly and maintaining it successfully for the past year, I have had almost 40 lifetime best swims in pool competition during the last year.

By the way, I am 37 years old, I only swim about 1600 meters per day (in a 25 meter pool), and all of my PRs in the last year were unshaved, unrested, and untapered. Perhaps the most dramatic time drop was in the 1500 meter freestyle (SCM), where I dropped from 19:53 to 18:34. The previous best time was from 1993. I also dropped from 19:34 to 18:36 in the 1650, and 20:49 to 19:40 in the 1500 long course, among the many other improvements.

My result is strong testimony to the power of mindful, balanced nutrition combined with regular exercise.

Bill

Shaky
August 11th, 2003, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Bill Volckening
My result is strong testimony to the power of mindful, balanced nutrition combined with regular exercise.


Yeah, but JoAnne wants to be able to eat pizza!

Come to think of it, so do I.:D

Fisch
August 11th, 2003, 09:56 PM
Jerrycat,
Re: weight loss:


Exrunner's advice plus Bill's advice = weight loss!

Bottom line...Burn more calories than you eat and you will lose weight.

Whether or not you lose muscle mass is more along the line of what Shaky is talking about...

Are you willing to maintain your current weight if you lower your
% body fat?

exrunner
August 11th, 2003, 10:39 PM
Weight loss should only be undertaken as a set of permanent lifestyle changes (incorporating exercise and sensible eating). Depriving yourself of pizza and other treats will only increase the odds of the plan failing. Therefore I recommend the calorie-count approach. You can eat any food item you wish, as long as you keep to your calorie limit (and meet basic nutritional requirements).

A slice of commercially produced cheese pizza might be something like 400 calories. If you have 2000 calories in your daily budget, you can have a slice during lunch with plenty of caloric headroom to work with the rest of the day.

Tomorrow, in fact, I plan to meet my Dad at the Chinese buffet.

Bill Volckening
August 12th, 2003, 01:08 AM
This may be a tangent (sorry) -- but I never said you couldn't eat pizza!

In fact, I make my own now, and it's every bit as good as the brick oven pizzas you can get at the fancy pizzarias. Here's how it's done...

I make my own dough: (simple...mix together: 1 part warm water, 3 parts flour, 1 cake yeast), knead and let it rise for 45 min to an hour, divide it in three and use 1/3 rolled very thin (@ 1/8th inch). You can freeze the other two portions and use them later. I then place the rolled dough on a pizza paddle that is well-dusted with cornmeal, top it and bake in a pre-heated oven (hot - 475-500 degrees) for 8-10 minutes on a pizza stone. For toppings, I recommend using a lot less cheese than what you might be used to using. Use a flavorful cheese, and a smaller amount. If you use mozzarella, try a very light sprinkling just as the "glue" to hold the other toppings in place.

Recently, I copied (and modified slightly) Wolfgang Puck's BBQ chicken pizza...I used some spicy BBQ sauce, thinly sliced tomatoes, sliced grilled marinated chicken, a very light sprinkling of coursely chopped red onion, a small amount of mozzarella to hold it together, and some crumbled Israeli sheep milk feta for some extra flavor. After it came out of the oven, I sprinkled some coursely chopped fresh cilantro leaves over the top. It was awesome! I ask, why would anyone eat Dominoes pizza when they could easily make their own.

Back to the main point: diets are restrictive. I didn't go on a diet. Instead, I really got into food, and learned how to prepare food the way the top gourmet chefs prepare it -- with as many seasonal, fresh ingredients as possible. I spent a little time watching the cable television food network, where the whole world has access to some of the best teachers: Sara Moulton, Bobby Flay, Jamie Oliver, Kathleen Daelemans, Emeril Lagasse, Rocco DiSpirito, etc., etc.

When you do it right, you can routinely prepare great meals that are less than 500 calories (watch those portion sizes, though), cost just a few bucks, and go together in 15 minutes or less (pizza dough takes longer, but with advance prep, it goes together quickly).

People still ask me how I dropped the weight, and I have started to tell them it was eating gourmet food in the proper amounts and swimming every day.

So, anyway, my apologies for turning the USMS Discussion Forum into the Cooking Thin Fan Forum from www.foodtv.com -- and for rambling on and on about food -- but I hope people know they can enjoy themselves and really enjoy food without feeling restricted when trying to lose weight. Exercise is the non-negotiable part of the formula -- and to go back to the original premise of this thread -- swimming is an excellent form of exercise and you can lose weight doing it.

As you forum readers can probably tell, weight loss has become a very important issue for me during the last couple years. This year, I have been sharing parts of my story in SWIM Magazine, with the hope that I can help others. If I can do it, you can, too!

Bill

jerrycat
August 12th, 2003, 09:26 AM
Bill,
Thanks so much for the encouragement to make my own pizza. You're talking my language when you talk cooking. I love to cook! In fact, on the weekends, I spend sometimes 8-12 hours each day cooking. And, I'll admit that pizza dough has always been that one thing I could never make--I tried once, and it was so bad that I never tried again. But, your recipie, I know I can do. In fact, I'm going to do it this weekend--if not before.

I have a home office--and it's really easy to skip meals during the day. In fact, I know that's one of the main reason for weight gain. So, I'm going to get on track with eating 3-5 times a day...that is sure to get results as well as swimming and adding some additional cardio.

Congrats on your weight loss. I'm sure you feel like a whole new person!

Thanks everybody for your feedback--it is extremely helpful!!! :D
Have an awesome day!
Jerrycat (JoAnne)indigo

gull
August 12th, 2003, 10:03 AM
Bobby Flay is a flash in the pan. . .

exrunner
August 12th, 2003, 11:36 AM
Bill and other pizza fans. Let me pass along a few tips on making your own pizza. I learned much of this from watching foodtv as well as the hard way.

(1) Divide the dough before the final rise, rather than after;
(2) Refrigerate the dough (oiled and covered in plastic) in the refrigerator overnight;
(3) Do not punch down the dough or roll it out. Instead, tap it down gently with fingers, and stretch the dough to shape it;
(4) Bake at the highest temperature your over allows. (500 degrees should work fine).

Leonard Jansen
August 12th, 2003, 11:37 AM
YUMMMMMMMM....

Sounds like we need a recipes thread.

-LBJ

Bill Volckening
August 12th, 2003, 01:30 PM
Good tips, exrunner! I also recommend a pinch of sugar when dissolving the yeast in the warm water...gives the yeast something to feed on.

And, by the way, I disagree with the statement that Bobby Flay is a "flash in the pan" -- sure, he's a bit abrasive (in a metropolitan east coast way :) ), but I look past that when I see what he creates. We should all eat that well!!

Bill

gull
August 12th, 2003, 02:01 PM
Bobby Flay only won once on Iron Chef and never competed again, whereas Iron Chef Morimoto has competed and won countless times.

jerrycat
August 12th, 2003, 02:59 PM
people can always argue about what chef has talent, etc. etc. There's no need to slam anybody--there are always things that can be learned from another person...even if it's not what to do.

All I know is that any chef could probably run rings around me...and the iron chef! What a crazy concept! Surly a great creator of food won't be judged by that show. Not everyone performs at their top without obvious preparation, the allowance to cook in their own style, and not against the clock. It really seems like the chefs are racing... I'd rather save the racing for the swimming pool. Then again, I'm not a famous chef--but still...the Iron Chef? Come on! When did the art of fine cooking evolve into a sporting event?


:rolleyes:

mattson
August 12th, 2003, 05:40 PM
Shaky, that was a very informative posting. But the more I think about it, there are some things which I'm not sure match what you are saying (in my experience).

You broke down the difference to (mostly) upper body vs lower body exercise. But when I use an ergometer or a Nordictrack, machines that would involve the upper body as well as the lower, my "hunger response" is the same as running. (And not as much as swimming. But maybe others have a different experience.)

Similarly, the urge to "power nap" after a workout is independent of the type of exercise, what I've eaten, or whether or not I've eaten.

Or maybe you are commenting about the "typical" running vs swimming workout. Would your argument change if you compared a sprinting running workout (muscle building) vs. a long distance moderate pace swim (aerobic)?



Originally posted by Shaky
Finally, that business about running keeping you from being hungry because it jostles your internal organs is a wives' tale. You can pound on someone's abdomen with a billy club, but if his muscles are depleted of glycogen he'll still be hungry.

I'll trust your word about this. But considering your experience at the Y, I'm wondering if you should try to get a grant for medical/sports research, using your co-swimmers as subjects. (Whack! Whack! Whack! "Are you still hungry? Good!" :D )

Scansy
August 12th, 2003, 11:06 PM
I agree with Bill V - it is possible to lose weight with swimming. I got back into swimming this year and have lost 30# in 6 months. In addition to the swimming, I have cut back on junk food. Not easy with the sweet tooth I have....

I did some research on the internet. All of the info I found that said swimming was not a good weight loss exercise referred to swimming at speeds of 20 yards/meters per minute. I'm not the fastest swimmer at my Y, but I would have trouble going that slow! Even when rests are figured in. That works out to be 88 minutes/mile!

I swim 4-5 times a week, 2500 to 3000 yards in an hour depending on the stroke and number of drills, kick sets, etc. The weight has come off.

Shaky
August 13th, 2003, 01:01 PM
Just to be clear with everyone, I agree that swimming is not only a great way to lose weight, but also just about the best all around exercise available. I'm not arguing for running, since I hate running and generally feel that an adult human shouldn't run unless he's being chased. Still, if weight loss is your most immediate goal, lower body exercise is generally a more efficient way to metabolize fat without gaining muscle mass than upper body exercise.


Originally posted by mattson
You broke down the difference to (mostly) upper body vs lower body exercise. But when I use an ergometer or a Nordictrack, machines that would involve the upper body as well as the lower, my "hunger response" is the same as running.

Evolution has optimized the white muscle for anaerobic power. That doesn't mean that white muscle won't metabolize fat; it MUST be able to switch over from anaerobic power to aerobic power in order to sustain muscle activity.

In fact, most physical activities present a combination of aerobic and anaerobic exercise. Running is more aerobic, but all you have to do is run up a hill to provide enough resistance to increase the anaerobic component. Weightlifting is mostly anaerobic, but while it would likely be dangerous to do so, you could increase the aerobic component by doing the reps as fast as possible. Swimming provides an almost perfect combination of aerobic and anaerobic activity: the sustained motion gives the aerobic component, while the resistance of the water provides the anaerobic component.

Thus, your Nordictrack hunger response makes sense. It's a sustained activity with more of an aerobic component than anaerobic. Your body is powering itself off your fat reserves and suppresses the appetite because it doesn't think it needs immediate replacement of calories. If you think of it as a balance between the two types of exercise, the results of the aerobic activity are outweighing the results of the anaerobic component.


Originally posted by mattson
Would your argument change if you compared a sprinting running workout (muscle building) vs. a long distance moderate pace swim (aerobic)?

I don't think so. While I can't personally attest to the effects of a sprinting running workout (since I'm not much of a runner), I do experience a difference in my hunger response between distance workouts and interval workouts in the pool. For example, I sometimes swim a 4000 to 5000m non-stop endurance workout, attempting to maintain a constant, reasonable pace throughout with my heart rate near its target level. When I get out of the pool, I generally have little desire to eat. When I have done this workout in the morning, on an empty stomach, I come out of the pool still hungry but unable to eat very much before feeling full.

In contrast, when I swim intervals I am always hungry afterwards. The main set of my favorite workout is ten 100m IM on 2 minute intervals. My stomach usually starts growling soon after that set, and the rest of my workout has me thinking about what delicious things await me when I get out of the pool.

(And yes, that response is the same when I've had a "full contact" workout with other swimmers kicking me in the sides. :D )

As you can see, I'm not saying that swimming doesn't burn fat or that running doesn't burn glycogen, nor am I saying that all swimming or running workouts affect the body the same way. What I'm saying is that, generally, our bodies have evolved to power the muscles in our upper and lower bodies differently to reflect the different kind of activities required of them, and that understanding this difference can help to understand why some types of exercise result in weight loss more quickly than others.


Originally posted by mattson
Similarly, the urge to "power nap" after a workout is independent of the type of exercise, what I've eaten, or whether or not I've eaten.

I'm studying Japanese. Whenever I start a lesson, fifteen minutes into it I desperately want a power nap, but it has nothing to do with burning carbs either. I just mentioned wanting a nap after satisfying a carbohydrate craving as part of the explanation of what's happening in the body in that particular situation, not as an explanation of every narcoleptic fit. I just thought a lot of swimmers might be able to relate to that specific situation.

Switching gears...


Originally posted by exrunner
The fundamental rule of weight loss is

3500 calorie deficit (surplus) = 1 pound weight loss (gain).

This equation holds true whether your calorie expenditure is from swimming or running, and whether your calorie intake is in the form of pizza or alfalfa sprouts. The equation is also true whether your weight loss is from lean tissue or fat.

While that may be a reasonable weight loss guideline at the basic level, it's really more complicated than that.

The 3500 calorie number is the specific number of calories in a pound of fat. Muscle contains far fewer calories per pound, and muscle gain differs from muscle loss in the amount of calories absorbed or expended. For example, bodybuilders and weightlifters will tell you that you have to absorb an additional 2500 calories to gain a pound of muscle, but you only have to burn 500-600 calories to lose a pound of muscle if you get your diet screwed up. If your calorie deficit were to cause you to lose 3500 calories from muscle, your actual weight loss would be six to seven times greater than if you lost 3500 calories of fat. Therefore it is not true that your equation works whether your weight loss is from lean tissue or fat; it doesn't even out.

The equation also doesn't hold true for different types or combinations of food, since it assumes that all calories consumed will be absorbed by the body. Whether fat is stored depends upon the body's insulin response. If there is more sugar in the bloodstream than the muscles can store, insulin is released, which then triggers storage of that excess sugar as fat. If it isn't stored in the muscles as glycogen or as fat from an insulin response, it's passed from the body.

Some people are lucky enough to have an unusually low insulin response to everything they eat. You know them; they're the ones who seem to be able to eat anything and never gain a pound, even though they don't exercise that much. Don't you hate them? Whatever calories their bodies don't need are passed out of the body without being stored. These people specifically fly in the face of the that equation.

Likewise, diabetics disprove the validity of that equation. One of the warning signs that diabetes has taken hold is weight gain. These weight changes can occur even when the diabetic has not changed his caloric intake or level of physical activity. What happens is that there's a change in insulin response in the body, and calories that before were passed out of the body as waste are being stored as fat in response to the higher insulin output. If 3500 calories really equalled a pound of fat in practice, a diabetic shouldn't gain weight at the onset of the disease unless he increased his caloric intake.

Furthermore, the presence of protein in the diet affects the insulin response and drastically reduces the effectiveness of that formula. When the body attempts to digest protein and carbs at the same time, the protein slows the absorption of the carbohydrates and helps reduce the rate at which they hit the bloodstream as sugar. This in turn reduces the amount of insulin released, and the body stores less of the sugar as fat. Meanwhile, because the digestion of the carbs has been slowed, less of those calories are actually absorbed by the body before being passed on down the tube.

Thus, 3500 calories consumed is not necessarily 3500 absorbed by the body, and 3500 calories lost doesn't necessarily equal a pound of weight. How much of it is absorbed or lost is dependent on what was eaten and what kind of tissue was involved. While it's attractive to try to simplify it down to a nice little formula that everyone can follow, the reality is that the human body is too complicated to be reduced to an equation.

exrunner
August 13th, 2003, 03:34 PM
As Shaky pointed out, 3500 calories = 1 pound of fat, rather than any combination of fat and lean, as I had posted earlier.

I maintain that the equation is a useful rule of thumb for healthy people trying to lose fat pounds. I've used it successfully myself.

Conniekat8
August 13th, 2003, 07:48 PM
Jerrycat,

An example of fat-loss:
I started swimming about 4-5 weeks ago. 2000-3500 Meters a day.
I have no idea if I lost any weight, since I decided to not obsessively weigh myself.
I am watching my diet and calorie intake, and I've noticed I dropped one dress size within the last month.
I also noticed a lot of positive changes in the muscle tone, upper and lower.

I read somwehere several years ago that one dress size change usually adds up to 8-10 pounds of fat loss.

Hoping this continues so I can be around 4 or 6 in 2 months :)

Also, I started off coming out of very sedentary lifestyle for couple of years.
For those of you who have been working out all along, you may need to introduce different kind of change in your diet/exercise style.

As for swimming and fat... Our bodies tend to react to being cold (lower temperatures in water) by wanting to store some fat, which can lead to extra hunger. I tend to be very hungry after a distance swim.
Occasionally I take an appetite surpressant. When you're that hungry, sometimes it is too easy to overeat. With an appetite suppresant, I can limit the calorie intake to what I need, rather than what I feel like.

dulfin
August 13th, 2003, 07:49 PM
Well kids, on the who eats more when issue, I just got off the phone with my mom, yes I called my mom on this, and asked her to think back to when my sister and I were in high school and the different sports seasons. Specifically, I asked her if there was any season that we ate more food and if so, which one. Hands down and without hesitation, swimming was first, followed by basketball, then softball/track & field.

Softball and track remained relatively normal in food portions and how often we ate. Basketball "hunger" increased but no where near what swimming did. Mom agreed, what we ate during the swim season (thank goodness we didn't swim all year round!) was at least double our normal food portions.

Mind you, my sister and I were not (still aren't - hee hee) overweight either. I remember being very lean and very toned. Things that jiggle now surely didn't back then. (Oh, I can't wait to get back into the pool!)

So, it's been just over 10 years since I've graduated, however I clearly remember eating like there was no tomorrow. I could consume an entire pizza and still be hungry. Wanna laugh? On the nights of a home meet - we'd run home and eat a pizza before we swam then had dinner after the meet! On nights of an away meet - mom would pack an extra lunch for us to eat on the bus then had dinner after the meet - we had to eat!

Shaky, since you've an unusual (and slightly abnormal) amount of technical knowledge on the white-meat-dark-meat-muscle-top-and-bottom-workouts....can you tell me why during the swimming season my sister and I drank milk like we owned the cow? It's a safe bet that during the swim season we would consume 2-3 gallons of milk a week - MMMMOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Okay, I'm laughing at myself right now. I can't add anymore to this thread...hee hee. After my confessions of eating like a whale, you probably think I look like one - I'm going to do some crunches - that would be the exercise, not the chocolate bar!

mattson
August 14th, 2003, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by dulfin
...can you tell me why during the swimming season my sister and I drank milk like we owned the cow? It's a safe bet that during the swim season we would consume 2-3 gallons of milk a week - MMMMOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

I'd be interested to hear this one too. Still need to satisfy the milkshake craving daily (although I make sure to use skim milk now :) ).

I remember an age-group swim clinic where they mentioned that the lactate in milk would be good during training, as it is close enough to lactic acid. If your body gets used to disposing more lactic acid, that would help to delay fatigue during races. (This was the '80s, so I don't know if this is "urban legend" or valid sports nutrition.)

Shaky
August 14th, 2003, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by dulfin
can you tell me why during the swimming season my sister and I drank milk like we owned the cow?

Beats me.

I learned the other stuff because I noticed that proponents of different types of exercise and different diets seem to create their own individual mythologies to explain what's happening in the body, and the explanations were inconsistent and sometimes contradictory. Even on this site, I found discussions that would seem to make sense if swimming were the only type of exercise in existence, but which fell apart as soon as you tried to apply the same conclusions to other sports. But because people tend to stick with specific sports or specific diets once they've bought into a particular mythology and resist crossing into unfamiliar territory, the myths seem to be perpetuated forever.

I just kept reading and looking for explanations that made the most sense. I do that sometimes when I get a bug to learn about something.

Edward The Head
August 14th, 2003, 03:36 PM
I can tell you that swimming will help you lose weight. After I got out of college I started to gain weight. Being 6'2" I got up to 215 pounds or so. I got sick of it and started to swim to get in shape. After a month or so I had dropped 10 pounds. I stayed at 200 or so for a long time, it wasn't until later I realised I was gaining muscle. Now, two and a half years later, I'm down into the low 180s and dropped a bit more then 3 inches off my waist. I still have a bit of a tire around the middle but I'm in good shape.

Dominick Aielloeaver
August 14th, 2003, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by jerrycat
Hey Everyone!

I've noticed that it was so much easier to loose weight with running, as opposed to swimming. It seems even though i'm swimming hard, the 13 or so pounds that I need to loose haven't budged. When I was running, my diet didn't have to be really clean...in fact I ate pizza at least once a week, and found that it helped me during high mileage. During running, my weight was very low despite the pizza habit. While swimming makes me hungrier, and I'm probably burning more calories per workout, the weight loss isn't there.

Why is this?

Thanks,
Jerrycat

Dominick Aielloeaver
August 15th, 2003, 12:11 AM
Hi jerry, when you finish your swim work out or training . take approx. 5 minutes rest . then swim 50 or 100 laps at a reduced speed or moderate speed. the trick to useing calories is as much constant movement as you can do. when you are done ,drink water and eat fruit and vegys. by the way do this all freestyle and do not stop, untill you have reached 50 to 100 laps. when you have supper have protiens alot. but once you have finished supper , go back to water and vegys or fruit. Also maybe excerise in the gym, using the same eating routine. Of course after you can make eating and workout adjustments.

jerrycat
August 15th, 2003, 11:25 AM
Well, I'm proud to say that I've gotten myslef on a better nutrition plan, and have lost two pounds. Also, I'm going to therapy to rehab my knee, and also have added some additional cardio to my routine. I'm doing 6 days a week of workouts, rather than just 3 or 4 as well--and wow! d o I feel better!

This diet includes clean proteins and lots of veggies...it's great, and I'm eating 5-6 times a day. Also, I've quit drinking...so there's nothing but imporovement that's going to happen from here. Thanks for the info everyone--this has been so very helpful!

Go swim! and have an awesome weekend!!
;)
Jerrycat

Courteous Swimmer
August 16th, 2003, 12:09 PM
Shaky is probably right. The relationship between legs muscles and fat loss/muscle gain sounds accurate. Weight lifters realized this years ago, which is why squats are so important weight lifters.

I enjoy fitness swimming. One thing I've noticed at nearly every pool, is that those who do just one stroke(usually free style) and do it enlessly, don't look good. They're usually a little chubby. Swimmers who mix it up, and do at least two strokes, and take rests between sets, tend to look much better.

sparx35
September 16th, 2003, 05:21 PM
hmmmm...my remedy,eat less swim more...
that recipe for pizza:-
dial.08256 956623 and ask for deep pan pepperoni...

sparx35
September 16th, 2003, 05:31 PM
with the amount of views this post has had i'd say there's a lot looking to lose some weight,and it seems we're all swimmers,maybe swimming makes you fat!!!

eliana2003
September 16th, 2003, 06:04 PM
yumm... actually, I reward myself with a slice of pizza (or some other type of high calorie food, like a good, ol' curry) at the end of the week, if I managed to stick to my training schedule... food is a great motivator!!

Courteous Swimmer
September 18th, 2003, 03:07 AM
I've noticed that people who swim in intervals, look a lot better than those who do endless laps.

I used to be one of those people who went up-and-down the lane doing endless front crawl. Now, I rest between 100's or 200's. I perform beginner's workouts that are published in SWIM Magazine.

Here's my new workout plan. I've lost a few pounds doing it:

Workout one: Cardio, 25 mins(approx.) usually jogging

Workout two: Cardio, 20 mins, usually jogging, weightlifting 40 mins.

Workout three: Swimming


Since beginning this workout plan, I've lost a few pounds. I expect to lose more because I have not missed a workout in a month.

When I was swimming two to three times a week, I was missing workouts all the time. That's probably why I was gaining weight. Now, I've taken all the pressure off myself to get to the pool all the time. It's impossible here in Queens NY.

This Friday, I'll go to the Asphalt Green for an uninterrupted workout in the 25-yard lanes. No kids. No crusty senior citizens performing the doggy paddle or floating. No pushy Queens types to get in my way. I'm swimming in style this week.

As for the running phase of my workout, I like to throw in some backwards laps. Jogging backwards is great for the quads, puts much less stress on your knees and ankles, and burns more calories. Even jogging in place at a fast pace will keep you in the aerobic zone.

Swimmer Bill
March 19th, 2004, 01:40 AM
Hi again,

I just made a really tasty pizza. It was a super thin, homemade Italian herb whole wheat crust with basil, oregano, and rosemary, baked on a pizza stone for 10 minutes at 500 degrees until the crust was cracker crisp. It was topped with a relish made of sundried tomatoes and roasted red peppers, and was also topped with shrimp, feta cheese, kalamata olives, a sprinkle of parmesan and mozzarella. It was finished with fresh chopped Italian flat leaf parsley after it was pulled out of the oven.

Believe it or not, you can lose weight eating things like this pizza. It's about quality, flavor, texture, fresh ingredients, and loving food!

See attached photo.

Enjoy!
Swimmer Bill

dorothyrd
March 19th, 2004, 08:33 AM
I'll be over!

jean sterling
March 19th, 2004, 09:23 AM
That's cruel and unusual punishment to post such a yummy looking picture. Now I'm hungry!

butterflybeer
March 19th, 2004, 09:49 AM
Bill,

Do you deliver to Canada?

Swimmer Bill
March 19th, 2004, 04:15 PM
It was very good. The best part about it is you can enjoy foods like pizza, stay on track with balanced nutrition, and even lose weight at the same time! I have also learned that you can truly eat like royaty, on a budget, without spending a lot of time in the kitchen.

I make the dough in larger batches, portion it off and freeze it. Then, I take out one portion in the morning and it is thawed and has risen again in time for dinner. I usually turn on the oven and let it preheat for a while with the pizza stone in the oven (sometimes an hour or more). Other than these advance prep steps, the prep time for this pizza (topping and baking) is about 15 minutes total.

I served this pizza with a shaved fennel salad (PICTURED with roasted salmon -- SEE ATTACHMENT). The salad was made with shaved fennel, excellent quality extra virgin olive oil, champagne vinegar, orange zest, chopped capers, chopped kalamata olives, chopped red pepper, Italian flat-leaf parsley, and a little kosher salt and fresh ground black pepper. It was wonderful!

Sorry, I don't deliver to Canada. When I get a chance, I will post more ideas, recipes and pictures.

Cheers!
Swimmer Bill

dorothyrd
March 19th, 2004, 04:23 PM
Oh my, now I am getting hungry, looks delicious!

Venus
March 20th, 2004, 07:48 AM
I've lost 59.5 or 60 if you want to round up with swimming being my primary cardio. I don't mean to say it was ONLY swimming. I swim 1 hour 3 days a week but I also kickbox and strength train and take yoga classes. However, swimming has still been primary. I've followed WW and the combination worked well for me. I started out just swimming for exercise and now I'm actually going to try a meet this year and bring up the rear for fun. :)

I have to agree with the calories in vs. calories out. I know there's more to it than that, but essentially if you burn more than you take in you will ultimately lose. At least it works that way for me.

Venus
March 20th, 2004, 07:51 AM
Swimmer Bill can you please post the recipie for your pizza crust or email me at TheVenus_32@hotmail.com? I have been looking for a good scratch crust.

Swimmer Bill
March 20th, 2004, 11:34 AM
Hi Venus,

The basic recipe is on the first page of this thread, along with some more details. Here's a recap:

1 cup warm water
3 cups flour (approx) -- I use 1 cup whole wheat and a little less than two cups white
1 cake yeast
1/2 tsp. sugar

Dissolve yeast in warm water with sugar. Add flour 1 cup at a time, and mix until it starts to come together. If you are adding other sesonings to the crust (dried basil, rosemary, oregano), add them with the flour so that they will be well distributed. Turn dough out on a wooden bread board dusted with flour. Knead until you get a smooth, elastic dough. Form a ball, and place in a bowl that has been lightly greased with olive oil. Cover bowl with plastic wrap and let it rise in a warm place for 45 min to an hour, until doubled in size.

Punch-down dough to get the air out, divide dough into three smaller balls, and store the two unused portions in ziploc bags in the freezer or refrigerator. Roll the remaining ball very thin (@ 1/4 to 1/8th inch). Place the rolled dough on a pizza paddle that is well-dusted with cornmeal, add your toppings, and bake in a pre-heated oven (hot - 475-500 degrees) for 8-10 minutes on a pizza stone. For toppings, I recommend using a lot less cheese than usual. Use a flavorful cheese, and a smaller amount. If you use mozzarella, try a very light sprinkling just as the "glue" to hold the other toppings in place.

I have experimented with all types of flavored crusts, including Italian herb, sundried tomato, curry, and saffron/currant. Let your imagination run wild!

Enjoy!
Swimmer Bill

swimshark
March 20th, 2004, 01:03 PM
Bill, you may not deliver to Canada, but I'm only 20 min. away from you. So what time will you be here with the pizza? hee-hee

Venus
March 21st, 2004, 04:03 PM
Thanks Bill! I'm fairly new to cooking but I've been learning the past year or so (used to nuke everything or eat out ack), so I appreciate the details. :)

cinc3100
March 21st, 2004, 09:20 PM
Well, I lost weight from 216 to around 188. I need to also diet better. But swimmers that are less overweight, the loss of pounds is probably going to be less.

Swimmer Bill
March 21st, 2004, 09:28 PM
Hi Swimshark!

I tried boxing one of these pizzas, and I brought it over to a friend's house, but it lost its just-out-of-the-oven crispiness. I think the steam caused the crust to lose something in transit....

So, you'll just have to come here for pizza! Or get a pizza stone and a pizza paddle and try the recipe at home. It's not rocket science unless you're a PC user....

;) SB

Swimmer Bill
January 5th, 2005, 03:17 PM
Here's some news for anyone interested in nutrition, recipes, etc.

The USA Swimming Web Site has a section for Masters and Fitness swimmers, and we have a recipe of the month.

This month's recipe is called Fulton Street Fisherman's Stew, and it is a hearty, easy-to-prepare, reduced-calorie, tomato-based dish that's great for warming up on a chilly winter evening.

Check out the complete recipe and other Masters features at:

http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/ViewMiscArticle.aspx?TabId=585&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en&mid=1169&ItemId=1457

jean sterling
January 5th, 2005, 03:40 PM
Looks DELICIOUS!! I printed it out.

Rob Copeland
January 5th, 2005, 03:57 PM
It does look Great!

Bill, the instructions says “add tomatoes and liquid” but the ingredients don’t seem to list any other liquids??? And is it OK to substitute sea salt for the kosher salt?

Swimmer Bill
January 5th, 2005, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Rob Copeland
It does look Great!

Bill, the instructions says "add tomatoes and liquid" but the ingredients don't seem to list any other liquids??? And is it OK to substitute sea salt for the kosher salt?

Hi Rob,

Use the liquid from the canned tomatoes. It's kind of like tomato juice. And yes, it's perfectly fine to substitute sea salt.

Enjoy!
Bill

2go+h20
January 5th, 2005, 05:10 PM
Bill,
Good thing I checked in as I am off to pick up some seafood for a seafood lasagne. This will be lovely for lunch tomorrow.
I want to thank you so much for all your delicious recipies. Always very healthy and simply delicious.
As a person who has to eat so carefully, I appreciate your suggestions.
Keep them coming!!
Kiwi

Celestial
May 9th, 2014, 08:45 AM
Evolution.

The muscles in the lower body, mostly "dark meat," have evolved in such a way that the body powers them by burning fat. Body fat provides an almost limitless source of energy, allowing the muscles to be used for long periods of time, while walking long distances. Lower body exercise like walking, running or biking taps into these muscles' ability to burn fat.

The muscles in the upper body are mostly "white meat" and have evolved to be powered by burning glycogen stored in the muscles themselves. These muscles evolved for quick bursts of activity, such as throwing, grasping, tearing or lifting, instead of sustained activity.

Since it takes more time to get energy out of stored fat, the glycogen serves as a quick start system. The white muscles will burn fat, but the body resists letting them do it until their glycogen reserves are depleted. Likewise, the dark muscles will burn glycogen for quick bursts of speed, but are optimized to burn fat. The two types of muscle correspond roughly to aerobic and anaerobic exercise, swimming having a large anaerobic component provided by the resistance of the water.

Since more muscle mass can store more glycogen, working muscles anaerobically will cause the body to react by building muscle. Exercise that is more aerobic will build less muscle, since the the muscle mass isn't necessary to store glycogen to power the muscles that way.

So, Shaky, does this mean that we might speed our weight loss in the pool if we added more kicking to our workouts?

I've been trying this week to really be good, food wise, and I might have gone overboard, because I've lost 5lbs in 4 days - I accidentally forgot half my lunch one day & ate only stuffed celery - but it kept me full!! And my appetite is just waning (fortunately). I saw on Dr.Oz yesterday that a good idea for a carb restriction diet is 80gm daily - not complete elimination. But this makes it difficult to workout - you might be fine doing normal things at work & around the house, but a quality workout requires carbohydrates (at least for me). However, I believe you can become accustomed to carb restriction & begin to have quality workouts anyway -- but does anyone have an idea of how long does it take before you "convert" to a more efficient glycogen conversion? I want to ride this train as long as it will let me, but I was trash in the water this morning!!

trexleradam
May 9th, 2014, 01:46 PM
You revived a nine year old thread to ask this? I do love all the pizza recipes though...

Karl_S
May 9th, 2014, 01:50 PM
You revived a nine year old thread to ask this? I do love all the pizza recipes though...
While I have no intent to lose weight, I'm glad this thread got revived. I'v never seen it before and it has some really interesting posts.

Celestial
May 9th, 2014, 05:47 PM
Women are always on a diet trexlerdam, didn't you know that? Besides some of the explanations about glycogen and gluconeogenesis, were pretty interesting, and I never thought of myself as having dark meat and white meat. I'm not a chicken, after all (and hopefully not a turkey either!). :D

Sojerz
May 10th, 2014, 10:32 PM
While I have no intent to lose weight, I'm glad this thread got revived. I'v never seen it before and it has some really interesting posts.

I'd never seen it too. thanks for reviving Celeste. I did manage to lose 45 lbs spinning/swimming and knocking out eating junk and drinking to much beer. Took about 12 months or so and I gained about 25 back by slacking. I'm on the way back down again and have added in more running and the weight is dropping and waist and butt are downsizing quickly. My response to swimming and running has been exactly as Shaky described in his original post.

I have read that after middle age an alkaline blood pH plays a significant role in muscle development, so I try to eat things that drive blood pH alkaline (certain fruits and veggies and avoid foods that are highly acidic (some cheeses etc.). You can check your urine pH to see where you stand.

__steve__
May 11th, 2014, 11:49 AM
Blood pH?

Maybe vitamin C is why I can't budge the scale over 164lbs. Being skinny does have advantages but I would like to be at least 170

orca1946
May 11th, 2014, 10:32 PM
From a while back when I could run, yes the pounds came off & stayed off much easier then now. 4 hip operations later & no running ever have added to the "ORCA" size.

DeniseMW
May 15th, 2014, 07:28 AM
I just found this thread and I'm going to try that pizza recipe.

There's been research since this thread started, and yes, swimming does take weight off. Some people complain that swimming makes them hungry, but in my experience that's true of any exercise, and I've never felt hungrier from swimming. You need to keep hydrated. That's something many of us who are newbies forget. I keep a water bottle by the lane and drink throughout my workout. I eat 1/2 cup of yogurt with fresh fruit and flax and drink a lot of water after swimming. Mostly, I'm sleepy after a swim, but I feel that way after a bike ride, too. The toughest thing for me is to avoid sugar and not over-indulge in carbs in the evening, and that's something I'm still working on.

rigato
May 15th, 2014, 07:50 AM
I can't wait to try the recipe! :)

Sojerz
May 15th, 2014, 10:58 AM
I just found this thread and I'm going to try that pizza recipe.

There's been research since this thread started, and yes, swimming does take weight off. Some people complain that swimming makes them hungry, but in my experience that's true of any exercise, and I've never felt hungrier from swimming. You need to keep hydrated. That's something many of us who are newbies forget. I keep a water bottle by the lane and drink throughout my workout. I eat 1/2 cup of yogurt with fresh fruit and flax and drink a lot of water after swimming. Mostly, I'm sleepy after a swim, but I feel that way after a bike ride, too. The toughest thing for me is to avoid sugar and not over-indulge in carbs in the evening, and that's something I'm still working on.

I think I'm hungrier at night if I swim in the morning - running or cycling at night takes a bit of the edge off. Munchies are more of problem at night - Triscuits are a killer.

Celestial
May 15th, 2014, 07:21 PM
So no one wants to conjecture about whether or not more kicking will help more with weight loss? After all, the leg & butt muscles are bigger muscles. Help help - I really don't want to learn to run!

Sojerz
May 15th, 2014, 10:22 PM
So no one wants to conjecture about whether or not more kicking will help more with weight loss? After all, the leg & butt muscles are bigger muscles. Help help - I really don't want to learn to run!

In my opinion you would burn fat kicking by either long intervals of slow kicking (boring) or sets of fat burning tabata kicking sets - sets of 8 reps of 20 sec hard kick (~one length) followed by 10 sec EZ recovery kick and repeat 8 times. Do the sets of 8 reps with 1-3 min of recovery sw between each set. Not sure how many sets one could hold up to. We do about 8-10 tabata sets spinning in 60 min., and im dead, but im guessing half that number of kicking would produce a pretty big burn and help your sprint kicking. Not sure why I never thought of this and will have to try it next week.

__steve__
May 15th, 2014, 10:33 PM
Long walks are an excellent way to burn fat.

aquajock
May 15th, 2014, 11:14 PM
Swimming definitely makes most people hungrier, making them more likely to go for higher calorie foods. I have heard this time and time again from clients and experienced it myself. I weighed about 20 pounds more when I was exclusively swimming for exercise, but after practice I could easily wolf down 10 pancakes. Since I started teaching fitness classes and cross training, I can eat what I want and now weigh what i did at age 16. When cross training, I seem to only want moderate amounts of food and have learned to choose wisely! I just read an article today in HEALTH about how women are so terrified of food and this just isn't right! Finding healthy balance so you can enjoy food that is nourishing and healthful is possible, but some people embark on things so fanatically, they never give themselves a chance to experience that!

wilmeret
May 17th, 2014, 09:21 AM
I do both and find that running is the best for cardio, but swimming is the best for general muscle workout. When I put in 30 mins of each exercise in the calorie counter here, moderate running burns 423 cals and moderate swimming 296 cals.

I'd reccomend working out in various forms though

Celestial
May 17th, 2014, 09:47 AM
I can eat what I want and now weigh what i did at age 16. . . . . . . . I just read an article today in HEALTH about how women are so terrified of food and this just isn't right!

Fortunately I still weigh about what I did when I was 16, but I think I was overweight then. I was thinner in my 20's after 2 babies, lol! I can totally relate to being terrified of food - I'm not terrified of it, just terrified of becoming a blimp!!

Celestial
May 17th, 2014, 09:55 AM
In my opinion you would burn fat kicking by either long intervals of slow kicking (boring) or sets of fat burning tabata kicking sets - sets of 8 reps of 20 sec hard kick (~one length) followed by 10 sec EZ recovery kick and repeat 8 times. Do the sets of 8 reps with 1-3 min of recovery sw between each set. Not sure how many sets one could hold up to.

I'll find out this afternoon. :)

I wonder also, if it makes a difference if you use zoomers (not long fins) or go "naked" or not. I used to do set of 6 x 50 kick, descending interval - starting at 60 sec, dropping by 5 sec each one, until I was ~35 sec. But tabata sounds more like HIIT, which is actually kinda fun (I like to do 20 x 50 @ ~ 1:00 & mix it up with pull equip sometimes, sometimes paddles & fins, but usually just "naked" -- really breaks up a boring, solo workout).

So far today: weights at the gym. Home for yummi egg souffle. Soon, off to "Tree Top Tallahassee" - which is an awesome 3 hour zip line aerial thing that is a blast; then finish off with a nice swim. It's a beautiful day today & I'm going to take advantage of it!! Ya'll have fun mowing the lawn!

aquajock
May 17th, 2014, 09:59 AM
Fortunately I still weight about what I did when I was 16, but I think I was overweight then. I was better in my 20's after 2 babies, lol! I can totally relate to being terrified of food - I'm not terrified of it, just terrified of becoming a blimp!!

I suggest finding strategies that will help you and then just try to let go and live. My two major "diet" strategies, if you want to call them that, are rarely eating out and not buying food at the grocery that I'd likely overindulge in. If I'm really craving a doughnut or piece of cake, I'll buy a single serving so I feel better :) I also exercise at least an hour a day. I also suggest not drinking diet soda and eating preservative-rich foods. Studies have shown these items lead to weight gain.

Celestial
May 17th, 2014, 10:04 AM
I suggest finding strategies that will help you and then just try to let go and live. My two major "diet" strategies, if you want to call them that, are rarely eating out and not buying food at the grocery that I'd likely overindulge in. If I'm really craving a doughnut or piece of cake, I'll buy a single serving so I feel better :) I also exercise at least an hour a day. I also suggest not drinking diet soda and eating preservative-rich foods. Studies have shown these items lead to weight gain.

You and I are on the same page! I'm not totally Paleo, but I do try to eat "from the ground". I swim ~90 mins or 5000LCM 3-4 x weekly, and do weights and possibly a swim 2 days a week (~2500 SCY those days). You'd think I was exercising plenty -- but apparently I have an efficient body that doesn't require much food. My newest trick is pimento cheese stuffed celery. That stuff will keep you full for hours, and has like, 12 calories. 8 pounds to go. . .

DeniseMW
May 20th, 2014, 08:45 AM
I really think it depends on the individual. When I was training in martial arts, I could eat whatever I wanted because I was training two hours/day, six days a week, but I drank tons of water. My metabolism always ran high until I hit my 50s and then it came to a screeching halt, or that's what it felt like. I've seen a lot of studies that say swimming takes the weight off just as well as any other workout but without the potential for injury. Unless you bonk your head at the edge of the pool, LOL. Or do like my sister and accidentally kick the rope and break your toe. Some people do report hunger after a swim. That doesn't seem to be an issue with me.

I think the main thing is to drink plenty of fluids throughout the day and eat moderate amounts of carbs with lots of protein. If I exercise late in the day, I can't sleep. And I get the munchies at night no matter what I do. The only thing that doesn't kick my hunger into high gear is lifting weights.

I'm wondering about a good cross-training program. I have heard a lot about CrossFit and wonder if anyone here has tried it, or what you think is the best exercise to balance swimming.

SLOmmafan
May 21st, 2014, 05:07 PM
I know people that swear by CrossFit. I do think it has a good number of potential benefits; but also some downsides. I think injury is a good possibility due to often times extreme over exercise or improper technique with certain weight lifting. And at least from what I have seen and participated in, there is also a very competitive environment to the whole system.

But I have seen some people radically transform their bodies...like from "pudgy" to solid ripped within 6 months to a year.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

DeniseMW
May 22nd, 2014, 08:55 AM
Thanks, SLOmmafan. It looks like it requires a huge commitment, but it's something I've thought about trying, though being in my early 60s it may not be the smartest route. I'm going to ask a personal trainer at my rec center if she can can put me on a modified CrossFit style routine to use on off days. I appreciate your input, which makes me think. I really want to add a form of exercise that doesn't interfere with swimming but does help me on my journey to losing weight and maintaining better health.

Anne00
July 2nd, 2014, 02:47 PM
Old thread, but good thread. I guess I just wanted to add my perspective... I swam my senior year in HS ('99). I remember initially being frustrated because my clothes began to fit tighter, and I was hungry ALL THE TIME. And then, woosh, the weight fell off (and I was still eating a lot). With that in mind, I just started swimming again on my own, hoping for similar results. I think running can burn more calories in a shorter amount of time, but (for me at least) swimming is more pleasurable. I can spend an hour or longer in the pool steadily swimming, and still feel like I don't want to leave. If you aren't modifying your diet, I think that means you have to work out longer, harder to actually see results, and personally I can only sustain that long of a work out w swimming.

StewartACarroll
July 3rd, 2014, 11:09 AM
Old thread, but good thread. I guess I just wanted to add my perspective... I swam my senior year in HS ('99). I remember initially being frustrated because my clothes began to fit tighter, and I was hungry ALL THE TIME. And then, woosh, the weight fell off (and I was still eating a lot). With that in mind, I just started swimming again on my own, hoping for similar results. I think running can burn more calories in a shorter amount of time, but (for me at least) swimming is more pleasurable. I can spend an hour or longer in the pool steadily swimming, and still feel like I don't want to leave. If you aren't modifying your diet, I think that means you have to work out longer, harder to actually see results, and personally I can only sustain that long of a work out w swimming.

This is a good short article on the calorific differences between running and swimming.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/46330-calories-burned-swimming-vs.-running/

DeniseMW
July 3rd, 2014, 11:38 AM
Great article. I have never been a good runner, and frankly, my joints protest when I try to run, so I walk. I know plenty of runners who've had to quit past age 55, but have not ever heard of a swimmer quitting past 55 because their knees or hips gave out. Then I look at the bodies of people who do both. I would much rather look like a swimmer. I found this article, which is pretty amusing. http://swimswam.com/10-telltale-signs-swimmers-body/

When I hear that people gain weight swimming because they get hungry and wolf down whatever they want, I throw my hands up in the air and say, "dude" or "dudess." Anyone who knows about basic nutrition and exercise in any form will tell you diet is 90% of it. I'm guilty of not restricting my calories enough, but when I swim regularly I'm likely to eat clean and lose weight.

Swimspire
July 3rd, 2014, 12:50 PM
Ideally, swimming can and should aid in weight loss, but as with any other sport, you still need to be mindful of what you eat. I actually wrote an article recently discussing 10 common misconceptions about swimming, and the weight loss issue is #1! http://www.swimspire.com/10-misconceptions-swimming/

Anne00
July 3rd, 2014, 02:10 PM
This is a good short article on the calorific differences between running and swimming.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/46330-calories-burned-swimming-vs.-running/

Thanks. That is what I've seen in other research; not all miles are created equal.

Anne00
July 3rd, 2014, 02:18 PM
When I hear that people gain weight swimming because they get hungry and wolf down whatever they want, I throw my hands up in the air and say, "dude" or "dudess." Anyone who knows about basic nutrition and exercise in any form will tell you diet is 90% of it.

I think you can lose weight, and still scarf down food (as I did), but it means you have to put a lot more time/effort into your daily exercise. I was swimming 5x week for 2ish hours. It was actually pretty great to not have to worry about calories. However, it was also really tiring... So, like #9 in the article, I ate and napped. I would even nap in my car during lunch break.

DeniseMW
July 3rd, 2014, 02:45 PM
Julia, thanks for posting your article. It was informative and reinforced a few things for me. No exercise program is going to help if you follow it with Arnold-sized portions of whatever you want. Ask me how I know. On the other hand, when I trained karate 5-6 days/week 2 hours/day, I could eat pretty much anything. The one caveat is that I was younger and hadn't hit mental pause, so my metabolism was still as revved as a sports car. I couldn't gain weight if I tried. Alas, that is no longer true.:cry:

Anne00, the only thing better than a nap in a car is a nap on Sunday lying in a hammock, IMHO.

ElaineK
July 3rd, 2014, 02:54 PM
Ideally, swimming can and should aid in weight loss, but as with any other sport, you still need to be mindful of what you eat. I actually wrote an article recently discussing 10 common misconceptions about swimming, and the weight loss issue is #1! http://www.swimspire.com/10-misconceptions-swimming/

Excellent article, Julia! :applaud: Thanks for sharing.

ElaineK
July 3rd, 2014, 02:57 PM
I was younger and hadn't hit mental pause, so my metabolism was still as revved as a sports car.

:lmao:

Swimspire
July 3rd, 2014, 08:14 PM
Excellent article, Julia! :applaud: Thanks for sharing. I am so glad you liked it! Thanks for all your support :)

greg27
July 6th, 2014, 06:33 AM
if your trying to get your leg muscles more involved get some short training fins . i swim one length just with my arms [freestyle] then switch to my back and swim back using only my legs. for me this has the added benfit of letting me breath normally on the length back and can be done for hours.

DeniseMW
July 6th, 2014, 11:00 AM
greg27, I need to forward your post to the woman swimming in the lane next to me this morning. She had pretty fancy fins and wasn't moving her legs at all, just gliding along. She was swimming slower than me, which takes some effort. :bolt:

kzjenna
July 6th, 2014, 05:11 PM
Hey all,

I'd love to hear personal weight loss due to swimming success stories! I'm working on an article for Swimmer Magazine on the subject. If you or anyone you know has lost 10 or more llbs swimming and healthy eating shoot me an email kzjenna at gmail dot com!

If you have tried to lose weight swimming but it just doesn't work for you, I'd like to hear from you, too!
drop me an email!

thanks!
Jenna

Anne00
July 7th, 2014, 10:22 AM
Ideally, swimming can and should aid in weight loss, but as with any other sport, you still need to be mindful of what you eat. I actually wrote an article recently discussing 10 common misconceptions about swimming, and the weight loss issue is #1! http://www.swimspire.com/10-misconceptions-swimming/

Thanks for the article! I finally got to read it (for some reason is wasn't opening at first).

Bill Sive
July 13th, 2014, 09:40 AM
Hey all,

I'd love to hear personal weight loss due to swimming success stories! I'm working on an article for Swimmer Magazine on the subject. If you or anyone you know has lost 10 or more llbs swimming and healthy eating shoot me an email kzjenna at gmail dot com!

If you have tried to lose weight swimming but it just doesn't work for you, I'd like to hear from you, too!
drop me an email!

thanks!
Jenna


When I started swimming my weight was 235 lbs. I currently weigh 173 lbs. No diet, no running, no weights, no bicycling. I only swim.

Anne00
July 15th, 2014, 10:54 AM
Hey all,

I'd love to hear personal weight loss due to swimming success stories! I'm working on an article for Swimmer Magazine on the subject. If you or anyone you know has lost 10 or more llbs swimming and healthy eating shoot me an email kzjenna at gmail dot com!

If you have tried to lose weight swimming but it just doesn't work for you, I'd like to hear from you, too!
drop me an email!

thanks!
Jenna

I am a little over a month getting back into swimming. I swim a mile (alternating between all swim strokes except butterfly, kickboard, and hand paddles), and I don't watch my calories. I haven't lost any pounds on the scale, but people have been asking me if I've lost weight. My arms are smaller as my blazers are fitting better in that area. This is similar to what happened in High School (1999) when I joined the swim team. I held onto my weight (per the scale), was bloated in the stomach (pants fit tighter), but overall appeared thinner. Then about three months into training the weird bloating went down and I lost tons of weight in what seemed like overnight.

Anne00
July 15th, 2014, 12:45 PM
If you are not seeing weightloss keep this in mind:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat.html
Many people have noted that fat loss is often discontinuous, that is it often happens in stops and starts. So you’ll be dieting and dieting and doing everything correctly with nothing to show for it. Then, boom, almost overnight, you drop 4 pounds and look leaner.
What’s going on? Back during my college days, one of my professors threw out the idea that after fat cells had been emptied of stored triglyceride, they would temporarily refill with water (glycerol attracts water, which might be part of the mechanism). So there would be no immediate change in size, body weight or appearance. Then, after some time frame, the water would get dropped, the fat cells would shrink. A weird way of looking at it might be that the fat loss suddenly becomes ‘apparent’. That is, the fat was emptied and burned off days or weeks ago but until the water is dropped, nothing appears to have happened.
For nearly 20 years I looked for research to support this, I was never sure if it was based on something from the 50’s or he just pulled it out of thin air as an explanation. Recently, one paper did suggest that visceral fat can fill up with water after massive weight loss but that’s about it.
Somewhat circumstantially, people using Bioimpedance body fat scales (which use hydration to estimate body fat levels) have noted that body fat appears to go up right before a big drop. This implicates water balance as the issue here.
As well, women, who have more problems with water retention, seem to have bigger issues with stalls and whooshes than men. Further, some individuals who have done dry carb-loads (high carbohydrate refeeds without drinking a lot of water) have seen them occur; presumably the body pulls water into the muscles and out of other tissues (fat cells). In lean individuals, appearance is often drastically improved with this approach, it doesn’t do much for those carrying a lot of fat.
I’d note that dry carb-loads suck because you’re so damn thirsty. Interestingly, even normal refeeds often work in this regards, perhaps the hormonal effect ‘tells’ the body to chill out and release some water. So not only do refeeds seem to improve stubborn fat mobilization the next day (as discussed above), they may help the body drop some water so that you can see what is happening.
Finally, many have reported whooshes following an evening which included alcohol. A mild diuretic, this would also tend to implicate water balance issues in the whoosh phenomenon.
I’d also note that this isn’t universal, lean dieters often see visual improvements on a day to day basis; a lot seems to depend on whether or not they tend to retain water in general. Folks who do have problems with water retention tend to have stalls and whooshes, those who don’t show nice consistent visual changes.