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aztimm
June 23rd, 2010, 01:52 PM
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That Guy
June 23rd, 2010, 02:10 PM
Set up your week so that you're used to swimming those events on those days. Swim a 1500/1650 every Friday. Swim a 200 breast at race pace every Saturday. And keep doing those long runs on Sunday! I'm doing something similar for my next meet - the 400 IM is on a Saturday so I'm shifting IM Day to Saturday, and the 200 fly is Sunday so Long Continuous Fly Day (for lack of a better name for it) is moving to Sunday. Sunday used to be my lazy no-swim day but that's moved to Monday for the time being.

qbrain
June 23rd, 2010, 02:43 PM
Pacing was my biggest concern going into my first and only (so far) 1500.

You want to hold a 1:30 pace, which strangely, is exactly what I wanted to do. I was confident I could do it, but was worried I would go out too fast.

I did several Xx100 sets holding exactly my goal pace on short rest. I recommend this to help ingrain pacing. I only did 15x100s once, but I did 3 or 4 shorter sets holding my goal pace leading up to the 1500.

If you look at my times, you will notice I did go out too fast. I was seeded next to Bobby Patten who holds several 1500 Zone and National records, and I tried to go out with him, before I realized that was moronic. After that I had no problem dropping into my goal pace and holding it until the last 500.

If having Bobby on one side wasn't bad enough, I had my wife on the otherside, and she was beating me going into the last 500 (Bobby lapped me twice). So I picked up the pace because I couldn't let her win! She won.

Morale of the story, learn your goal pace and stick with it and be happy with that. Girls and old men are going to beat you. This actually requires that you swim SLOWER than you normally would, and minimize rest. 100s on 1:35 holding 1:30 would be my suggestion.

tjrpatt
June 23rd, 2010, 03:01 PM
Tim,
Just go to Kino one day at noon and do a test set, 100s on 2:00 or 2:30 to see if you can hold 1:25s or 1:30s on your LCM 100s. If there is a space, obviously. Or, go to your gym pool/local Chandler pool and do a warmup and do a 15 x 100s on 2:00 or 2:30 seeing if you can hold about a 1:15 in yards.

pwb
June 23rd, 2010, 03:10 PM
Tim,

Good for you. I wish I could be there to count for you. Although I don't swim it in Masters, this used to be one of my favorite events back in the day. A few thoughts:


Conceptually, settling into your pace on the 2nd 200 like you did on the 800 is not a bad idea.
I like to think of it as 3 x 500, where the only one I'm actually trying to aim to build is the 3rd one. The first 500 needs to almost feel too easy or else you're probably going out too fast. The second one should start to hurt a little near the end, but you should still aim to feel strong. Then, slowly build the last one.
I find that counting strokes per lap is a great way to try to stay on pace. I tend to count my right hand entering the water because I always start on my left and that makes a full stroke cycle. Settle into a stroke count on your second and third 100s and then try to hold that through about the 1200 or 1300. After that, you can let all hell break loose.
Find someone who can count for you, take 100 splits and provide you simple signals with the counter (e.g., no movement = good, up & down = speed up, side to side = slow it down).
As for prep work in the pool, in addition to the 100s, you need to do some longer sets on short intervals (e.g., 3 x 500, 6 x 250, etc.) to get your body acclimated to race pace over a longer distance.

As for your 200 breaststroke, make sure you cool down extensively after the 1500, a minimum of 500, and then plan on a slightly longer warmup the next day if you're feeling sore.

I assume you're swimming this at the AZ State meet which is a great, cool water pool to race in. Get there early to grab shade under the trees or bring shade.

qbrain
June 23rd, 2010, 03:29 PM
If your goal was to hold 1:30, then maybe I need to adjust mine. You're much faster than me!


Ermm... hhmm... The 1500 was Friday evening and everything else was Saturday morning. My goal was just to go fast enough to make the top 10 without expending too much energy that I wouldn't enjoy the meet Saturday.

I think I am in much better shape now than I was when I swam the 1500. We will find out Sunday.

knelson
June 23rd, 2010, 03:43 PM
100s on 1:35 holding 1:30 would be my suggestion.

In my opinion if you can make this set then you should be able to hold a much faster pace than 1:30 on a 1500. When I do pace sets I aim for a 2:1 swim to rest ratio and I find that's pretty difficult. So for a 1:30 pace that would mean a 2:15 sendoff. There's no way I could hold my pace with only five seconds rest.

lefty
June 23rd, 2010, 04:13 PM
In my opinion if you can make this set then you should be able to hold a much faster pace than 1:30 on a 1500. When I do pace sets I aim for a 2:1 swim to rest ratio and I find that's pretty difficult. So for a 1:30 pace that would mean a 2:15 sendoff. There's no way I could hold my pace with only five seconds rest.


I agree with Kirk. Maybe not 2:1 but certainly more than 5 seconds.

osterber
June 23rd, 2010, 04:33 PM
Sprint the first 50, and then hold on for dear life. :-)

In actuality, the 3 x 500 is a good strategy. You want the first 500 to feel easy. Some coaches would say "stupid easy", like you could swim that pace all day long and never get tired.

Are you working with a coach? If you're working with a coach, you could come up with target pacing per 100, and then if you're able to have someone on the sidelines try to help you signal based on your pace projection for too fast, too slow, or just right. The big thing that people often have trouble with is how a pace feels in practice vs. how it feels at a meet, when you've got much more adrenaline running.

Often, you'll want to be toning down the first part of the of the race, so you can come home strong.

And no matter what happens, try to build the last 500 to finish strong.

-Rick

qbrain
June 23rd, 2010, 04:43 PM
In my opinion if you can make this set then you should be able to hold a much faster pace than 1:30 on a 1500. When I do pace sets I aim for a 2:1 swim to rest ratio and I find that's pretty difficult. So for a 1:30 pace that would mean a 2:15 sendoff. There's no way I could hold my pace with only five seconds rest.

Knowing what I know about Tim and knowing his goal is 22:30, the 1:30s on 1:35 will work for him. He will end up going faster than 22:30 and he will negatively split the race. He has no experience with the 1500 and a little experience with the 800, so going out with a comfortable pace and having plenty to come home strong I think is a good strategy for a first 1500. I used that strategy for my first 1500 last summer and am planning on swimming the event again.

If it wasn't his first 1500, and it wasn't Tim, I wouldn't give any advice on a 1500. It is certainly not a race I know anything about and my suggestions can't be generalized.

aquageek
June 23rd, 2010, 05:24 PM
Either negative split it, do what pwb says by 500 or get your counter to pace you. I have a rhyme for my count pacer - side to side let it ride (ahead of pace), up and down wear a frown (behind pace), hold steady be ready (right on pace).

I'm not sure what you can really accomplish in 5 weeks for the 1500 training wise. I'd just do what everyone says and get in some long sets with low rest. I'd probably do some 10 X 300s (world's greatest set), or 20 X 200s or 6 X 500s a few times a week. I certainly wouldn't do any running the week before that race if you want to put up a good time.

pwb
June 23rd, 2010, 07:51 PM
Hey, if you really want a great 1500, head up to Flagstaff in a week, train there for 3 weeks and then come down for the meet. This strategy worked very well for Kate Ziegler a few years back (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/18/AR2007061801792.html). My kid's club team saw a number of great 1500s at a meet this past weekend after being up at altitude for a week of hard training.

ande
June 23rd, 2010, 08:54 PM
I'm not a D guy, but if I were going to prepare a 1500 M fr I'd train for the 1500 in practice, work on endurance, conditioning, racing, speed, and pacing.


Swim several 1500's & further in practice


Before the Race

shave
warm up well
make it so your goggs won't fog
wear a fast suit


in the swim

breathe every 2

use a 2 beat kick

Swim the first 200 way easier than you think you should.
you're going to settle into a pace and you'll settle into a faster ave pace if you don't kill yourself on there

Hold the same per 50 pace for the next lengths 5 - 28
sprint the last 100

Stay relaxed

even to negative splitting is the way to swim it

couldbebetterfly
June 23rd, 2010, 10:49 PM
Sounds like you've done a lot of pace work in practice to know how it should feel and raced 800m already so you know how that feels too.

I have raced only one 1500 SCM, and never specifically trained for it as I was concentrating on my 400, and like PP suggested and 'cos I was way more experienced in a 400, I split the race into 4 parts. That way once I got to 1100m with 400 to go, I could speed up or steady off on the pace as I was back in my comfort zone. So if your distance is the 800, make that last 800 feel like your normal 800 swim.

Good luck!

knelson
June 24th, 2010, 11:50 AM
Swim the first 200 way easier than you think you should. you're going to settle into a pace and you'll settle into a faster ave pace if you don't kill yourself on there

I think this is really the best advice. You can have a coach or your counter tell you if you're holding the pace you want, but ultimately your body is going to tell you what pace it can hold. Personally, I've never used any external method to tell me my pace. My experience is it doesn't matter. If you are swimming too slow, you are going to swim slow. You might be able to pick up the pace temporarily, but you'll probably fall back to where you were and all it will accomplish is making you more tired for later in the race. The key is reading your body and knowing what kind of pace you can hold. What feels fairly easy early on might not feel so easy at the 1000 meter mark!

bzaks1424
June 24th, 2010, 12:43 PM
For the record- I'm right there with you - except much slower. I will be swimming that race this Saturday in my first LCM race ever! I fully expect this to be a record in slowness! (but still a P.R.!)

swimmerb212
June 24th, 2010, 02:35 PM
For the record- I'm right there with you - except much slower. I will be swimming that race this Saturday in my first LCM race ever! I fully expect this to be a record in slowness! (but still a P.R.!)

You know, I was going to swim my 1500 this weekend for time, but maybe I should set the PR benchmark low? I don't think that's in the right spirit, though, because what if I never do it again?

Michael Heather
June 24th, 2010, 02:54 PM
I like the setup that Rick O used, the first 500 "stupid easy."

I once knew a distance swimmer that swore by negative splits, and have been using that to excellent effect in my own swims. I timed him in a 1650 one time and he actually did swim each 100 slightly faster than the previous. Sometimes only .20 second, but progress, nonetheless.

It cannot be stressed too much that the first third has to be very easy feeling to you. Do not panic, the last 500 will feel terrific.


Best of luck!

Herb
June 24th, 2010, 10:26 PM
I'm swimming it this saturday, hoping to break 25 minutes. I've been doing sets of 2000-2500 trying to maintain 1:40/100 on a 1:50 interval in a 25M pool. I do this for any combination of 100s to 500s. I've been almost right on that pace but I'm not positive I'll pull it off. Swim time converter also predicts an extra 24 seconds for LCM but then again flip turns are my nemesis so don't know if that will be a factor.

swimmerb212
June 30th, 2010, 02:15 PM
Any creative tips for a 1500, other than to not die?


Last weekend I completed my first 1500. In order to slow myself down and not burn out my shoulders, I did every other length with alternate-side breathing, and it felt alright. I ended up averaging a 1:51 for each 100 (and later swam the actual 100 as a 1:23.)

If I ever do it again, I'll have to come up with some way to make it not so boring, or get a better song stuck in my head.