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evilwatersprite
November 3rd, 2010, 05:47 PM
Swimnetwork seems to think it's for real. I expected to read that she was working out with the FAST crew at her old pool but she has allegedly reunited with Schubert.

http://www.swimnetwork.com/News/Swimming/Blogs/Casey-Barrett/2010/11/Rumors-of-a-Queens-Comeback.aspx

knelson
November 3rd, 2010, 06:05 PM
Wait a minute. where the heck is Schubert coaching? Didn't he take a leave of absence from his position as National Team coach or whatever his exact position was?

evilwatersprite
November 3rd, 2010, 06:15 PM
Wait a minute. where the heck is Schubert coaching? Didn't he take a leave of absence from his position as National Team coach or whatever his exact position was?

Yeah, he did. Wonder if that is the reason why.

pwb
November 3rd, 2010, 06:24 PM
This would be way cool. If you watch events like the women's marathon in running (admittedly much longer) you see a fair number of women in their mid to late 30s. If someone was going to make a comeback, I would think distance swimmers would have an easier time than sprinters since muscle mass is less a determinant of success in the d-events than sprint events.

Glenn
November 3rd, 2010, 07:29 PM
You go girl!!!:applaud:

tjrpatt
November 3rd, 2010, 10:32 PM
This would be so cool. You always see sprinters/stroke specialists in their late 30s/40s making back to the elite levels. She would be the first distance swimmer(?) to make it back to the elite levels.

knelson
November 4th, 2010, 12:02 AM
You always see sprinters/stroke specialists in their late 30s/40s making back to the elite levels.

Really? Name one besides Dara Torres.

MAC swimmer
November 4th, 2010, 05:39 AM
The article states that she may set goals in her same old events...just the idea is heroic. Crushing training sets of distance free...20 x 400 descends. 800 builds...in your 40s!?

Grit...thy name is Janet Evans!!! I love this chic!!!!

gobears
November 4th, 2010, 07:28 AM
Really? Name one besides Dara Torres.

Susan (Rapp) von der Lippe won Silver in the 200 breast in the 80's then qualified for the most recent Olympic Trials in the 100 breast and the 100 fly.

knelson
November 4th, 2010, 10:09 AM
Susan (Rapp) von der Lippe won Silver in the 200 breast in the 80's then qualified for the most recent Olympic Trials in the 100 breast and the 100 fly.

OK, good start. Now name someone else. :)

Maybe Susan is who Tom was thinking of. I'm just curious who he had in mind. On the men's side the number who have even made an OT cut over the age of 40 could probably be counted on one hand.

pdjang
November 4th, 2010, 10:20 AM
If the comeback rumor is true then there is a good chance of her coming to the Holiday Invite at Belmont Plaza Pool - hosted by the Grunions. I was planning to go anyway - but if she decides to swim at the meet - well, all I can say is "lookout masters record book".

The Fortress
November 4th, 2010, 10:58 AM
OK, good start. Now name someone else. :)

Maybe Susan is who Tom was thinking of. I'm just curious who he had in mind. On the men's side the number who have even made an OT cut over the age of 40 could probably be counted on one hand.

I thought Wally Dicks held the record for oldest OT qualifier (100 breast) at 40 until SVDL beat him out by a few months at the last trials.

jroddin
November 4th, 2010, 11:44 AM
I thought Wally Dicks held the record for oldest OT qualifier (100 breast) at 40 until SVDL beat him out by a few months at the last trials.

To my knowledge, Wally was the oldest swimmer to swim in Trials when he swam in 2000 (he was 37). I think Rowdy may have qualified when he was older than 37, but didn't actually swim in the meet. So you have to be careful using the phrases, "oldest to qualify" vs "oldest to swim." In 2008 Susan became the oldest male or female to swim in Trials. Vlad Pyshnenko also swam in 2008 Trials and was older than 37, so he moved up to become the oldest male to swim in Trials.

I don't have a recollection like Skip, so this may not be accurate. Hopefully somebody can correct me if I am wrong.

Jeff

Chris Stevenson
November 4th, 2010, 11:46 AM
This would be so cool. You always see sprinters/stroke specialists in their late 30s/40s making back to the elite levels. She would be the first distance swimmer(?) to make it back to the elite levels.


Really? Name one besides Dara Torres.


Susan (Rapp) von der Lippe won Silver in the 200 breast in the 80's then qualified for the most recent Olympic Trials in the 100 breast and the 100 fly.

It depends on how you define elite. I think there is a pretty wide gulf between making OT cuts and winning an Olympic medal. And SVDL hardly attempted a "comeback," she just tries to fit swimming in "around the edges" (like most masters swimmers).

Like Tom, I do kind of wonder if DT's comeback success has as much to do with her events as with her talent/determination. If Janet Evans does seriously go after it, then it would be an interesting test case.

Dennis Baker's oh-so-near-miss of the OT in the 200 fly while in his upper-40s deserves mention in this regard. I guess I intuitively feel we mere mortals lose more in an event like the 200 fly (or the distance frees) with age than we do in the sprints. But maybe not.

pwb
November 4th, 2010, 12:14 PM
I guess I intuitively feel we mere mortals lose more in an event like the 200 fly (or the distance frees) with age than we do in the sprints. But maybe not.

I'd like to think that too, but I think other sports prove otherwise -- such as the 38 year old winner of the 2008 marathon gold (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantina_Di%C5%A3%C4%83-Tomescu). I think what really happens is that we either don't have the time or the inclination to do the training for distance swimming events like we did when we were younger.

You mention Dennis Baker and I hear stories that he does still train like an age grouper. Most of us don't and to do really well at the 800/1500 and even the 400 requires a kind of training I know I'm just not able/willing to do these days. If Janet makes a comeback and has the drive to do that, I think she's got a realistic shot at making the team ... beating the British women and some of the other d-stars, though, is a taller order.

swimshark
November 4th, 2010, 12:16 PM
You mention Dennis Baker and I hear stories that he does still train like an age grouper.

Yes, he does.

tjrpatt
November 4th, 2010, 12:21 PM
Really? Name one besides Dara Torres.


Mark Foster of Britain is in his 40s, right? I saw a clip of him in the 92 Olympics final.

There is that Australian 100 fly Geoff, but he might be in his mid 30s?

knelson
November 4th, 2010, 12:34 PM
Mark Foster of Britain is in his 40s, right? I saw a clip of him in the 92 Olympics final.

Yes, but did he ever take off any extended time from high level swimming? There's also Mark Warnecke who specializes in the 50 breast. He's 40.

ande
November 4th, 2010, 01:23 PM
Interesting, wonder if she's really making a comeback.
I wish her well if she does.

When Dara made her come back she started in masters kind of under the radar, no big announcements to the press. She swam pretty fast in 2006 worlds at stanford on a 4 x 50 relay, think she was 25.8, on not much training. Then she swam with a masters group during and after her pregnancy, she swam in a scy masters meet in April 2007 & went 50 fr 21.9 & 100 fr 48 low. Shortly after that she announced that she was training for 2008 trials and hoped to make the US team for Bejing.

When I told one elite female freestyler about Dara's announcement, this swimmer said
"Well she's not taking my spot."

Dara developed the ability. She was the real deal.

Spitz' 1992 comeback was more hype with not enough ability, he was just out of training for too long.

I wish Janet the best, she was truly great & I'm curious to see what hard training will do for her. I'm also curious how much training she's done during her retirement.

Peter Cruise
November 4th, 2010, 03:11 PM
I wish her the best. I feel that she can become very good again, but as I recall, her best efforts were as she was younger; she began to grow into her adult body that posed a real challenge to her old stroke (she was riding much higher in the water when younger). I wonder if advances in nutrition, weight training might help her now.

Frank Thompson
November 4th, 2010, 03:48 PM
To my knowledge, Wally was the oldest swimmer to swim in Trials when he swam in 2000 (he was 37). I think Rowdy may have qualified when he was older than 37, but didn't actually swim in the meet. So you have to be careful using the phrases, "oldest to qualify" vs "oldest to swim." In 2008 Susan became the oldest male or female to swim in Trials. Vlad Pyshnenko also swam in 2008 Trials and was older than 37, so he moved up to become the oldest male to swim in Trials.

I don't have a recollection like Skip, so this may not be accurate. Hopefully somebody can correct me if I am wrong.

Jeff

Jeff:

You are correct on all points. Wally Dicks back in 2000 was 37 when he swam a 1:05.00 to make the Olympic Trials standard and at that time he was the oldest swimmer to achieve that. Since then Susan Von der Lippe and Dara Torres both were older in making the OT standards. Rowdy Gaines did qualify at age 37, in 1996 but decided not to swim them. He also qualified in 1992 at 33, but had that terrible Guillaine-Bare Syndrome and could not swim them. He would have been the oldest to swim at that time if he was able to swim. Dennis Baker, at the age of 46, in 2008 swam a 2:04.25 in the 200 meter fly and missed making the trials standard at 2:03.99 by .26 and if he made it he would have been the oldest. SVL at the age of 43 is still the oldest.

I have not seen a major press release about this comeback and went to the official Janet Evans website and it says nothing about this. I would think this would be a major news story for both Janet Evans and Mark Schubert with his current leave of absence from USA Swimming. So right now we can treat it as a rumor and just speculate about what is going to happen.

In thinking about all of the comments so far, I thought about this one. There has never been anyone that I can think of at the age of 33 or older that has ever been ranked in a distance event on the world class level. In Masters swimming, you see times of both men and women in sprints that can make OT standards and have a chance to make top 16 at the meet but never in an event 400 or over.

Another fact to look at is the records in Masters swimming for both USMS and FINA World Records. The times of swimmers in the younger age groups in the 50's and 100's make and sometimes qualify for Top 16 in the nation. You never see that and its not even close in distance events like the 400 IM, 400 Free, 800 Free, and 1500 Free.

With these two points, its going to be very difficult to qualify, final, make the Olympic team, and medal at the 2012 Olympics. I realize that we are not just talking about any swimmer and Janet Evans was ahead of her time and the greatest distance swimmer we have seen but that was 20 years ago. In fact it was over 20 years ago because that is where the 4:03.85, 8:16.22, and the 15:52.10 times were swam and at almost age 42 this might be asking a lot.

As Ande mentioned, Dara got into this very slowly and the seeds were planted as far back as the 2006 Nationals at Coral Springs when in less than a month after having a baby, she was swimming in the meet. At the 2006 Worlds in the 200 Mixed Free Relay she lead off the relay in :25.98 and at that time was very close to what the top American swimmers were doing and she had not announced the comeback. I remember seeing that relay and watching Dara swim stroke for stroke with Trip Hedrick and seeing Rich Abrahams hold off a charge from Rowdy Gaines.

Janet Evans has been out of swimming for 14 years and would have to be ready in less than 2 years. Unlike Dara, where she was competitive with the top sprinters from the get go, we don't know how Evans would do with today's top distance swimmers. The current crop of distance swimmers are the best they have been in years. On the national level you have Hoff, Zeigler, Sutton, Schmidt, Burckle, Knutson, and any unkown future stars that always come out of the workwork. On the world level you have Pellegrini, Adlington, Jackson, Goldman, Gorman, Friis, and Etienne and each of these swimmers are going times as fast or faster than what Evans did 20 years ago.

One of Janet Evans strengths was the incredible huge training base that she built up over the years and it would be asking a lot at her age to duplicate that work load. The older swimmers of today do not attempt the workouts they did in there younger years because they just can't recover like they did. After all that time off, I don't know if its possible both mentally and physically to do this.

I think we have to see how this develops and if she is successful it would be as much or more ground breaking than what Dara Torres has done.

pwb
November 4th, 2010, 04:53 PM
Skip,

I loved your post ... extremely insightful and I get your points. What puzzles me about training loads, though, is why / how you see "older" people in events like the marathon succeed on a world-class level and yet, as you rightly point out, we see a greater divergence in swimming distance events as age progresses. As someone who trained high volumes in the 80s, I know it's hard mentally to keep that level up and I choose not to do that today in my Masters career. But, is the reason mental or physical? For me, I think it's mental: I just don't want to train like that ... but I'm not close to contemplating making a trials cut. My hypothesis is that, were I willing to train like I did in the 80s, I could approach my old 400 to 1500M times.

If Janet's got the mental fortitude and time to train and if we see other older athletes in other endurance events, why can't she re-approach her peak performance in swimming?

scyfreestyler
November 4th, 2010, 06:00 PM
http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/25511.asp

Chris Stevenson
November 4th, 2010, 06:10 PM
http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/25511.asp

Well, that might make me want to go to ARIZ nats...

pwb
November 4th, 2010, 07:20 PM
http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/25511.asp

Way cool ... glad I'm sprinting at that meet so I don't get my butt whooped by her :)


Well, that might make me want to go to ARIZ nats...Yeah, but if too many people think like that, it'll ruin my argument that the lack of tech suits is destroying Masters' meet attendance.:afraid:

The Fortress
November 4th, 2010, 07:29 PM
Yeah, but if too many people think like that, it'll ruin my argument that the lack of tech suits is destroying Masters' meet attendance.:afraid:

Maybe Tall Paul got to her.

swimshark
November 4th, 2010, 08:17 PM
Skip,

I loved your post ... extremely insightful and I get your points. What puzzles me about training loads, though, is why / how you see "older" people in events like the marathon succeed on a world-class level and yet, as you rightly point out, we see a greater divergence in swimming distance events as age progresses. As someone who trained high volumes in the 80s, I know it's hard mentally to keep that level up and I choose not to do that today in my Masters career. But, is the reason mental or physical? For me, I think it's mental: I just don't want to train like that ... but I'm not close to contemplating making a trials cut. My hypothesis is that, were I willing to train like I did in the 80s, I could approach my old 400 to 1500M times.


I'm curious as to how you view high yardage vs lower, targeted yardage? I can tell you I was doing higher volume, 5 days a week as a kid but now I'm doing lower volume 4 days a week in my 40's but I'm beating my HS times. It can be done. When I was in my teens, training was more like 110% effort the whole time. Now, it is 120% effort but it's less overall yardage and more rest in between. And I train with a very successful coach and age group team.

pwb
November 4th, 2010, 10:31 PM
I'm curious as to how you view high yardage vs lower, targeted yardage? I agree that more quality and lower yardage can be better and produce good to great results in shorter events. I think it can be applied to the 500-1650/400-1500 to some extent, but that some measure of pounding out some serious pace work is required for those distances. Given time constraints now (early 40s), a GREAT week of training is around 20,000 yards. When I did my best 1500 time back in my youth, 20K could be a single day of training ... not every day, but weeks were more in the 70,000 to 90,000 meter range during the intense parts of training. I don't think I'd need to go that high now, but I think I'd need to be training 50K a week consistently to contemplate times that approached my best HS & college 1000 and 1650 times.

swimshark
November 5th, 2010, 08:49 AM
I agree that more quality and lower yardage can be better and produce good to great results in shorter events. I think it can be applied to the 500-1650/400-1500 to some extent, but that some measure of pounding out some serious pace work is required for those distances. Given time constraints now (early 40s), a GREAT week of training is around 20,000 yards. When I did my best 1500 time back in my youth, 20K could be a single day of training ... not every day, but weeks were more in the 70,000 to 90,000 meter range during the intense parts of training. I don't think I'd need to go that high now, but I think I'd need to be training 50K a week consistently to contemplate times that approached my best HS & college 1000 and 1650 times.

Well, I just made top 10 in the 400 IM and just missed it in the 400 free (only swam it once at an age group meet). Due to ankle surgery, I didn't do the 800 or higher this summer. I'm not a sprinter by any means and my distance is getting faster as I get older and get wiser and more targeted training. I usually only do about 17k in a week and that's a full week. But I think as I've gotten older, my training has gotten wiser. I do dry land which I didn't do when I was younger and I do ART stretching now (getting it done in about an hour in fact since I have a meet tomorrow). Plus our team has a nutrition program that we follow. So maybe it can be done now with the new techniques in training that weren't around when Janet was younger without her having to pound out the higher yardage.

lefty
November 5th, 2010, 11:12 AM
I seem to recall that Evans fell off alot from 92 to 96. She will have to be faster than she was in 96 to make the team. It doesn't matter who you are or were, just going out there and giving it your best is admirable.

pwb
November 5th, 2010, 11:30 AM
It doesn't matter who you are or were, just going out there and giving it your best is admirable.Absolutely. Even if she doesn't make whatever lofty goals people might expect of her, I hope she continues to swim Masters, that she finds the joy in it that many of us do and that that encourages more former super-stars to jump back into the pool. I love going to Nationals and seeing/hearing stories about the guys and gals in the pool who swam in Olympics past and are still going strong. It's incredibly motivating.

Frank Thompson
November 5th, 2010, 11:51 AM
Lefty:

I agree that its admirable and no matter what happens it will be big boost to USMS to have Janet be a USMS member and swim in our meets.

There was a drop off between 92 and 96 but there was a bigger drop off from 88/89 to 92 from the WR times that were swam in the 400 Free and 800 Free. Her winning time in the Olympics in 1988 was 4:03.85 compared to the time of 4:07.37 in 1992 for silver. Her 8:17.12 in 1988 and 8:16.22 in 1989 were faster than her winning time 8:25.52 in 1992.

In 1996 she swam a 8:38.91 for a sixth place but I don't believe that year she went under an 8:30 and her time at OT was 8:33.60 and in the 400 Free she was 9th missing the finals by two seconds at 4:13.60 when at the Olympic Trials she went for 4:10 and would have easily qualified for the final with that time. I remember a protest was filed by USA to FINA because Michelle Smith entered a qualifying time past the FINA deadline for submitting a time for this event at the 1996 Olympics and FINA upheld the time and denied the protest otherwise she would have been able to swim the 400 Free final.

orca1946
November 5th, 2010, 01:49 PM
As fast as she was with that straight arm recovery, I would be pleased if she would again join us in the pool ! Good luck to her !

ourswimmer
November 5th, 2010, 08:26 PM
To put it in perspective, Janet Evans's best-ever 1500LCM was 15:52. Someone could break the current USMS W40-44 record for 1500LCM (17:56.52) and still be lapped almost twice--in long course--by someone swimming as fast as Janet Evans did at her peak. I don't think there's any way a 40-year-old can train the way a 20-year-old distance swimmer trained in the late '80s/early '90s, but I agree that it will be interesting to see how close she can come to her earlier speeds with whatever way she can train now.

I actually can think of someone for whom the USMS record in the 1650 for W40-44 would not be a ridiculous goal. I would love to see that person come to Arizona and race Janet Evans in the 1650. If the field for the W40-44 1650 at 2011 SCY nationals were like the field at 2010 SCY nationals, we would not give Ms. Evans much of a challenge, unless the challenge were whether or not she could lap the second-place finisher four times.

200free
November 6th, 2010, 02:15 PM
Therese Alshammar from Sweden is 33 and almost broke the world record in the 100 fly this weekend. Nice to see swimmers shattering the old myth that you had to retire from the sport after college.

I hope Janet does make a comeback. It would be great to see whether it's possible for a distance swimmer to get back to top shape at that age. She looked like she was in great shape when she appeared on Celebrity Circus last year so at least she's not starting from scratch.

oldwahoo
November 7th, 2010, 12:14 PM
Really? Name one besides Dara Torres.


Lars Frolander - Just check the news - yesterday at age 36 he won the 100 fly at the World Cup is Stockholm - 51.26 for 100 meters (sc) fly - that's just off his lifetime best of 50.44 (scm) in 2000 (the year he won the Olympic gold). Swimmers (and others) just keep expanding the perceived age limits for high level human performance.

Karl_S
November 8th, 2010, 01:57 PM
I'm curious as to how you view high yardage vs lower, targeted yardage? I can tell you I was doing higher volume, 5 days a week as a kid but now I'm doing lower volume 4 days a week in my 40's but I'm beating my HS times. It can be done.
'curious here: What events have you beaten your HS best times in? Were these your focus events in HS? ...and how many years did you go without competing?

lefty
November 8th, 2010, 03:16 PM
Lars Frolander - Just check the news - yesterday at age 36 he won the 100 fly at the World Cup is Stockholm - 51.26 for 100 meters (sc) fly - that's just off his lifetime best of 50.44 (scm) in 2000 (the year he won the Olympic gold). Swimmers (and others) just keep expanding the perceived age limits for high level human performance.

Nice grab. I would say that 51.26 isn't quite "just off" 50.44 but we are mid-season so I think it qualifies for what we are looking for.

I thought the last time Lars announced came back (this is not the first time ) he was only going to be doing freestyle.

swimshark
November 8th, 2010, 03:23 PM
'curious here: What events have you beaten your HS best times in? Were these your focus events in HS? ...and how many years did you go without competing?

Let's see, I have my HS record book in front of me. I have beaten my 50 fly, 100 fly, 200 breast, 50 breast (just barely), 100 free, 50 free, 200 IM and 100 IM.

Breast was my focus stroke. Mostly the 200 breast. Once my knee went bad, I switched to fly. Now I'm really a distance swimmer but in working on improving my distance events, my sprint events have gotten faster. I am 40 now. I stopped competing for 11 years - from when I was 18 until I was 29. I didn't swim in college.

knelson
November 8th, 2010, 03:32 PM
You swam stroke 50s in HS or are you talking about relay splits? As far as I know the high school order of the events is very standard across the US and includes the stroke 100s, 50-500 free, 200 IM and the 200 medley and 200 (since the early '90s or so) and 400 free relays.

I've definitely gone faster in masters than in HS in the 100 and 200 free. I think those are the only ones. I'm sure I'm faster in the 50, too, but my HS coach was smart enough not to ever put me in that event! :)

That Guy
November 8th, 2010, 03:32 PM
'curious here: What events have you beaten your HS best times in? Were these your focus events in HS? ...and how many years did you go without competing?

I have beaten my best HS time in Masters in these events: 200 free, 500 free, 200 IM, 100 fly, 100 back. At my final high school meet, tapered and shaved, I swam the 200 free and 100 back and led off the 400 free relay. I surprised my coach by choosing the 100 back instead of the 100 fly. It's not a high school event, but I've also handily beaten my high-school-era time in the 200 back.

I have NOT beaten my best HS time in Masters in these events: 50 free and 100 free. I've gotten pretty close in the 100 free. If I ever swim the 100 free tapered and shaved in Masters, I should beat my HS time easily.

Although it is a high school event, I don't recall ever swimming the 100 breast in high school, so I haven't listed it in either category. I didn't swim the 200 fly, 400 IM, 1000 free, or 1650 free until college. And I didn't swim the 200 breast until Masters :)

Karl_S
November 8th, 2010, 07:00 PM
Let's see, I have my HS record book in front of me. I have beaten my 50 fly, 100 fly, 200 breast, 50 breast (just barely), 100 free, 50 free, 200 IM and 100 IM.

It's very impressive that you have taken down your HS times across the board, the 200 breast and 200 IM, especially so.

I didn't compete for 26 years (but swam quite a lot on and off over the years and stayed active). I'm 46 now. In HS my focus events were 500 free & 200 IM, and to a lesser degree 100 back. I haven't even tried the 500 or 200 IM in masters. My best guess based on practice times is that I would be 25-30s off in the 500 and 10s off in the IM. I'm several seconds off from my HS 100 back best. I led-off the 4x100 free relay often in HS and I'm now within <1s of that time in the 100 free. Only did the 50 free once in HS. I have essentially matched that time in a relay lead-off. 50 fly isn't a HS event, but I am quite certain that I have beaten my age-group best in that event. Based strictly on my experiences, it looks like the lomger the event, the more challenging it is to regain your former speed, as is a theme in this thread. Is this due to some aspect of the aging process, or because I swim 1/3 the yardage that I did in HS? I don't know, and tripling my yardage isn't going to happen any time soon. Perhaps more will respond and provide more data.

couldbebetterfly
November 8th, 2010, 11:13 PM
Well I'm not much help data-wise as I never swam distance until Masters. I swam 200m free at my back-of beyond club only once a year and never dropped below 2.30. I beat that at the ripe old age of 28 having not swum much at all from age 18-25, and I went on to do a PR when I was 31 about 18 months after having my first baby.

Sprint-wise, I came very close to PRs in 50 free, 100 free and 50 fly (but was still a good 2 secs off my 100 fly) at 28 and before I got pregnant. After then I concentrated on longer distances - it was easier to train for the distance free than fly in the group I swam with. Maybe I missed a golden opportunity of swimming distance as an age grouper - who knows?

And now another 5 years on I staggered in at 2.33 on 200m free this summer in a hot pool shortly after finishing an IM. But that's what a second baby and an international move does to you!

:blah::blah::blah: So I have no idea really - personally I feel my distance has improved as I have got older and I find it harder to find that explosive excitement necessary to sprint.

swimshark
November 9th, 2010, 07:01 AM
You swam stroke 50s in HS or are you talking about relay splits? As far as I know the high school order of the events is very standard across the US and includes the stroke 100s, 50-500 free, 200 IM and the 200 medley and 200 (since the early '90s or so) and 400 free relays.

I've definitely gone faster in masters than in HS in the 100 and 200 free. I think those are the only ones. I'm sure I'm faster in the 50, too, but my HS coach was smart enough not to ever put me in that event! :)

When I say HS I mean HS age. Some of my times are from age group meets, like the 50s. The 100s are generally from HS meets, though. The only 50 I see listed as a HS meet is from a relay, although I did graduate prior to 1990's :afraid:

knelson
November 9th, 2010, 09:58 AM
We never had stroke 50s in age group meets, either. At least not above the 11-12 age group. That was always fine by me. Sprints were certainly never my forte.

Allen Stark
November 9th, 2010, 08:20 PM
I only swam BR in HS,100 mostly but 200 a couple of times when we swam against college JVs and 50s as relay time trials.Now at 61 I am faster than my HS times in all 3.I train smarter,I race smarter,but also I wasn't that good in HS and the rule changes in BR have made it a totally different stroke.

BrandonNE
November 9th, 2010, 08:38 PM
GO JANET!!! I think she is going to shock people!!! You can bet she will show up at USA Swimming meets.. Hope to see her at the 2012 Trials and Masters Nationals

carlos_fernandez
November 9th, 2010, 11:14 PM
Re: drop-off from '88-89 to '92 and '96

I used to work out w/ Janet back in high school (a couple of lanes over, I must admit), and while I was not privy to what was going on for her, I do recall hearing from mutual friends...


She got burned out to a degree
her body changed and it was difficult to make adjustments
the limelight and the pressure took a massive toll


Again. This is very 2nd hand and 15 years+ ago, so take it w/ a grain of salt. It's also not too revealing.

But if she's anywhere near where she was in training back in the early '90s, she'll be a threat to qualify. She used to routinely pull sub 4:20's during sets in workout.

Typical set back in '87, '88: 5x400 lcm
warm-up on 5:00
then 4:50
4:40
4:30
4:20

She would make the set easily.

knelson
November 10th, 2010, 12:31 AM
her body changed and it was difficult to make adjustments

Considering how much she grew it's pretty impressive she didn't fall off more. She was just a tiny thing in Seoul in '88 and her stroke seemed totally adapted to that slight frame. I guess the bottom line is she's incredibly talented and a fierce competitor and that kept her on top when others might have faltered. I certainly wouldn't want to count her out from getting to the top again if that's her goal.

Gail Roper
November 10th, 2010, 10:58 AM
My daughter asked Janet once why she thought she performed better than anyone else. Janet said she just worked harder. I think that saying swimmers have "talent" just discounts all the work they do.

lefty
November 10th, 2010, 11:11 AM
My daughter asked Janet once why she thought she performed better than anyone else. Janet said she just worked harder. I think that saying swimmers have "talent" just discounts all the work they do.

Or you could view what Evan's said (if she said it) as an insult to swimmers who work really really hard and don't make the Olympics ( I don't actuall view it that harshly).

(Besides, she got slower. Did she quit working hard?)

Everyone knows it takes both. One you are born with the other one is a choice. Some are born with the talent but don't make the choice to do something with it. Some are born without talent but make the choice to try and squeeze everything out of what they got.

Ahelee Sue Osborn
November 10th, 2010, 12:26 PM
Anyone see this interview yet?

http://tv.swimmingworldmagazine.com/shows/split-time/split-time-episodes/6791 (http://tv.swimmingworldmagazine.com/shows/split-time)

Long... but by the end Garrett brings it out.
Ed Moses likely coming back -on a bet.

havepoolwillswim
November 13th, 2010, 11:56 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see a 4:50-4:55 in the 500 from her this spring. If she's closer to 4:40, then there will be a lot to talk/speculate about.

Karl_S
April 12th, 2011, 02:14 PM
Well, that might make me want to go to ARIZ nats...
'don't see her in the psych sheets:(

Karen Duggan
April 12th, 2011, 03:12 PM
I read somewhere that she didn't get her entries in on time. She can go in my spot as I'm not going, although I didn't enter any freestyle.

ande
April 12th, 2011, 03:24 PM
Needs to update her website

her Career Highlights (http://janetevans.com/index2.html): say
Still holds 400, 800 1500 freestyle World Records

I wonder:

How much she's training?
guess someone could ask her agent evan@pmgsports.com

How fast she could go if she totally went for it?

How fast those who broke her records would have gone if they wore the same kind of suit?