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ande
December 23rd, 2010, 10:57 AM
Swimsuit ban puts brakes on records (http://www.skynews.com.au/sport/article.aspx?id=555657&vId=)

Not a single long course world record fell in 2010 - after 2009 saw all but four of the current 32 established.

orca1946
December 23rd, 2010, 11:44 AM
I just watched the Dubai S C meet ! They did not wear long tech suits , but jammers - although the women still get to wear what I am not allowed to wear anymore ?? !!
Vote for equality in suit coverage area !!

debaru
December 23rd, 2010, 11:46 AM
I just watched the Dubai S C meet ! They did not wear long tech suits , but jammers - although the women still get to wear what I am not allowed to wear anymore ?? !!
Vote for equality in suit coverage area !!

Okay, I'm all for equality. So, we women get to swim topless?? :bump:

orca1946
December 23rd, 2010, 12:00 PM
Be carful in what you wish for :afraid:
I don't think that will happen ,I just think that men can use the same coverage as women, although you will still look better than a guy in the same suit !

debaru
December 23rd, 2010, 12:04 PM
Be carful in what you wish for :afraid:
I don't think that will happen ,I just think that men can use the same coverage as women, although you will still look better than a guy in the same suit !

Believe me, I am not wishing for that kind of equality. :D

Redbird Alum
December 23rd, 2010, 12:12 PM
... Not a single long course world record fell in 2010 - after 2009 saw all but four of the current 32 established.

But, there were short course records broken. Perhaps this suggests that technique in the starts and turns overcame the slight loss of "fluidity" the suits gave one in the straights.

Thoughts?

The Fortress
December 23rd, 2010, 12:14 PM
I just watched the Dubai S C meet ! They did not wear long tech suits , but jammers - although the women still get to wear what I am not allowed to wear anymore ?? !!
Vote for equality in suit coverage area !!

Give it a rest. Men don't have boobs or the body fat women do. If we looked the same, maybe the same suit would be warranted.

And did you expect long tech suits on men? You're aware they're illegal?

How can they call Lochte an "emerging" star?!

knelson
December 23rd, 2010, 12:17 PM
Vote for equality in suit coverage area !!

When exactly does this vote take place?

I think men should be allowed to wear women's knee-length suits--but be required to wear false breasts under the suit if they do... :bolt:

debaru
December 23rd, 2010, 12:21 PM
When exactly does this vote take place?

I think men should be allowed to wear women's knee-length suits--but be required to wear false breasts under the suit if they do... :bolt:

These might do the trick: http://www.exsilbreastforms.com/self_adhering_breast_form.html

Redbird Alum
December 23rd, 2010, 12:23 PM
These might do the trick: http://www.exsilbreastforms.com/self_adhering_breast_form.html

This thread has taken a severe and ugly turn from where I thought it was going to go....

BR KnuckleDragger
December 23rd, 2010, 12:29 PM
Bring back the suits!

:2cents:

The Fortress
December 23rd, 2010, 01:07 PM
Bring back the suits!

:2cents:

+1

tjrpatt
December 23rd, 2010, 01:56 PM
Lochte and several others Top Swimmers in the World are adjusting pretty well without the suits. You can always wear tech suits at practice!

rtodd
December 23rd, 2010, 03:31 PM
Ande,

Could the reason be that top swimmers are on a four year periodization? Do we need to wait untill OTs to really find out?

knelson
December 23rd, 2010, 03:33 PM
Could the reason be that top swimmers are on a four year periodization?

In that case you'd expect very few records in the year following the Olympics, which was 2009. Instead we saw records in nearly every event.

Midas
December 23rd, 2010, 04:11 PM
Give it a rest. Men don't have boobs or the body fat women do. If we looked the same, maybe the same suit would be warranted.



While I don't agree with Fort on resurrecting the suits, I'm in agreement with her here. There are obvious physiological differences between men and women. It's not unfair that women get to wear different suits with greater coverage than men. In any event, it shouldn't matter because men and women don't compete against one another (for the most part) and therefore all men are on an even playing field relative to one another.

Midas
December 23rd, 2010, 04:17 PM
Swimsuit ban puts brakes on records (http://www.skynews.com.au/sport/article.aspx?id=555657&vId=)

Not a single long course world record fell in 2010 - after 2009 saw all but four of the current 32 established.

I think it would be awesome if nobody broke any records until the 2012 Olympics (but then some were broken--hopefully by Lochte). It makes it so much more meaningful when records aren't broken yearly.

Chris Stevenson
December 23rd, 2010, 04:29 PM
It makes it so much more meaningful when records are broken

Absolutely agree with this. And it is nice that the first question when hearing about a great swim is now not "what suit?"

So we can go back to arguing about PEDs now. Ah, the good old days...

BR KnuckleDragger
December 23rd, 2010, 05:16 PM
Lochte and several others Top Swimmers in the World are adjusting pretty well without the suits. You can always wear tech suits at practice!

Lochte and several other top swimmers don't have the body fat of a 48 year old masters swimmer...

If I had Lochte's or even Soni's body fat i wouldn't want the suits back either...

:banana:

rtodd
December 23rd, 2010, 09:56 PM
In that case you'd expect very few records in the year following the Olympics, which was 2009. Instead we saw records in nearly every event.

I think the suits were even further developed the year following Beijing and they learned how to swim in them. They also could hear the end was coming politically, so their training plan included worlds to try and take down records. Maybe now they are focusing on 2012 and it did not include this year's short course.

Just a thought.

Chris Stevenson
December 24th, 2010, 09:34 AM
I think the suits were even further developed the year following Beijing and they learned how to swim in them. They also could hear the end was coming politically, so their training plan included worlds to try and take down records. Maybe now they are focusing on 2012 and it did not include this year's short course.

Just a thought.

I don't think there is much question that the main factor was the suit ban, and all other considerations are fairly minor by comparison.

Although there were no LCM records set this year, there were several close calls. My prediction is that there will be a few WRs in the year of the Olympics, though not a huge number. (They will not necessarily be set at the Olympics themselves; often people swim a little faster in the trials.)

I think the main draw of Olympic swimming to "the common person" will be the story-lines (eg, Lochte vs Phelps); indeed one can argue that has always been the case. Phelps' pursuit of his "octet" was independent of the whole suit thing.


Lochte and several other top swimmers don't have the body fat of a 48 year old masters swimmer...

If I had Lochte's or even Soni's body fat i wouldn't want the suits back either...

I'll never understand this argument. If you put on body fat, you should pay the price in the pool and not kid yourself about it. In this sense the suit ban gives an incentive for healthy behavior.

Fine physical specimens they may be, but their (lack of) body fat is certainly not what set Lochte and Soni apart from their peers.

tjrpatt
December 24th, 2010, 12:09 PM
Lochte and several other top swimmers don't have the body fat of a 48 year old masters swimmer...

If I had Lochte's or even Soni's body fat i wouldn't want the suits back either...

:banana:


There are Masters Swimmers in the late 40s that are more ripped/less body fat than Lochte and Soni. I have body fat and I seem to manage just fine without a tech suit.

knelson
December 24th, 2010, 01:08 PM
I'll never understand this argument.

Same here. I'd prefer an apples to apples comparison to Lochte and/or Soni. Yes, it's a rude awakening, but at least you know how you really compare.

jim thornton
December 24th, 2010, 07:17 PM
Give it a rest. Men don't have boobs or the body fat women do. If we looked the same, maybe the same suit would be warranted.


I am not entirely ready to stipulate this, dearest Leslie. Though I am certainly not our team's Dolly Parton, I think I can humbly say I fill out a bikini top more amply than some of the women.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record (for those who don't know what this means, the "needle" on the "record player" somehow gets stuck in a "groove" leading to the repetitive and eventually obnoxious replay of part of the "song" till somebody gets up, and saunters over to the "Victrola" and gives it a good "whack"), I wonder if anyone has compared the men's and women's times to their respective previous year's performances, what I think Patrick may have termed a "regression analysis" in order to determine whether, and to what extent, the still-legal women's suits continue to provide a "cheating" (in the loosest sense of the word) advantage compared to the women's suits legal before this entire "hullaballoo" began?

And I have no "idea" why I am using "quote marks" all over the place, other than fatigue and an acute "sense of injustice" that won't "leave me alone!"

fmracing
December 25th, 2010, 01:32 AM
I have body fat and I seem to manage just fine without a tech suit.

+1 :)

stillwater
December 25th, 2010, 10:20 AM
I think I can humbly say I fill out a bikini top more amply than some of the women.

Please submit photographic proof.

Peter Cruise
December 25th, 2010, 11:35 AM
the horror...this thread may lead to the re-emergence of the infamous large man in small speedo picture...or worse

jim thornton
December 25th, 2010, 12:15 PM
Please submit photographic proof.

I would, but I don't want to run afoul of the Mann Act--transporting photographs of my moobs across state lines for prurient purposes.

Rich Abrahams
December 25th, 2010, 12:27 PM
I obviously don't have enough to do this morning. I did an analysis of masters world records broken in 2008 and 2009. They are as follows:

2008 Short Course Men 46 Women 51
Long Course Men 79 Women 70

2009 Short Course Men 56 Women 69
Long Course Men 80 Women 64

Now we just have to wait for FINA to post the 2010 records to possibly see the impact of suits and gender. I know there are some flaws to these statistics. E.g. the FINA year ends on 10/31 and I didn't bother to do the records by actual date set, but I figured it would even out over the course of three years and we'd have to wait till late 2011 to see the records set after Nov. 1 this year. I originally thought there would be more records set in 2008 because there was a LC world championships, but this didn't seem to be the case.

Jim, you seem a bit bored these days. Perhaps you could massage these statistics to make them more accurate.

Rich

stillwater
December 25th, 2010, 12:40 PM
I would, but I don't want to run afoul of the Mann Act

A scalywag response.

If you can't support your claim, I think your moobs have a lack of support.

Pasties would work.

jim thornton
December 25th, 2010, 12:43 PM
Jim, you seem a bit bored these days. Perhaps you could massage these statistics to make them more accurate.

Rich

Rich, you are absolutely correct in your assessment of my boredom levels.

However, your suggestion that "massaging these statistics" might help me with my boredom is, perhaps, dangerous counsel.

Were I to do this, it is quite possible that I would become so bored my heart would stop.

I shall leave this job, therefore, to the more mathematically inclined and search out alternative, and arguably more exciting, forms of massage for myself.

jim thornton
December 25th, 2010, 12:50 PM
A scalywag response.

If you can't support your claim, I think your moobs have a lack of support.

Pasties would work.

Okay. Point taken.

Here is me putting Leslie's amble boobage to shame.

http://forums.usms.org/picture.php?albumid=182&pictureid=1395

ElaineK
December 25th, 2010, 01:15 PM
Okay. Point taken.

Here is me putting Leslie's amble boobage to shame.

http://forums.usms.org/picture.php?albumid=182&pictureid=1395

You have me beat! :afraid:

stillwater
December 25th, 2010, 01:20 PM
AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGG,
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhH,


OH MY OH MY OH MY OH OH OH OH MY MY MY.

MY EYES, MY EYES, I CAN'T SEE.

'm tyring to tyep butt I;m blnded.

May God hvi merci on your sole.

jim thornton
December 25th, 2010, 01:53 PM
.

May God hvi merci on your sole.

Did you just ask God to thank my fish?

stillwater
December 25th, 2010, 02:20 PM
I once was blind, but now I see.

No man should go hence forth without the burka.

I pray to FINA that what I have seen shall never see the light of day.

"Oh God of Water, strike my eyes from my skull, for I have seen a vision not ment for a mere man. Please help me to move forward in my quest to purge my brain from the pain. I am your servant, I follow your rules."

jim thornton
December 25th, 2010, 02:30 PM
"Oh God of Water, strike my eyes from my skull, for I have seen a vision not ment for a mere man. Please help me to move forward in my quest to purge my brain from the pain. I am your servant, I follow your rules."

Be of good cheer, Stumpwanker!

Let nothing human disgust you.

I say this on the day of my son's birth.

Go and be in peace and be troubled no more.

--Jim Thornton speaking in tongues, i.e., God's own ventriloquist dummy

rodent
December 25th, 2010, 05:19 PM
If swimmers could swim fast enough to break the existing records they would be doing it. The tech suits were an advantage. W/O them everyone, especially men are slower.
If the suits weren't an advantage they wouldn't have been banned, all those WR's wouldn't have been broken by swimmers wearing them and swimmers would not have paid $400 a pop for them. The fact that in the two full years since they have been banned few WR's have been broken is because of the suits.

orca1946
December 26th, 2010, 06:35 PM
ANYHOW - I will not miss the price tag of the not so long lasting suits !

ande
December 26th, 2010, 06:46 PM
no way, most coaches want their swimmers to swim as fast as they can every season


Ande,

Could the reason be that top swimmers are on a four year periodization? Do we need to wait untill OTs to really find out?

stillwater
December 26th, 2010, 07:10 PM
[QUOTE][Go and be in peace and be troubled no more.
/QUOTE]

Sahib, may I ask for total enlightment?

Carl Spackler told me that he had obtained it.

I'd like to one-up that dang groundskeeper.

Dolphin 2
December 27th, 2010, 10:47 AM
Swimsuit ban puts brakes on records (http://www.skynews.com.au/sport/article.aspx?id=555657&vId=)

Not a single long course world record fell in 2010 - after 2009 saw all but four of the current 32 established.

So what if no records were broken in lieu of the ban on tech suits?

The opinion of many lay people (about Phelps winning all those gold medals in 2009) is that swimming is really not about breaking records through “suit technology” and accordingly, the public has been pretty Hooo Huuum about the records set by using those suits.

And from many who watched the swimming events, their attitude was “So what the hell - so why doesn’t FINA just allow swimmers to use paddles and flippers and even more records would be broken?” :confused:

D2

jim thornton
December 28th, 2010, 10:01 AM
[QUOTE][Go and be in peace and be troubled no more.
/QUOTE]

Sahib, may I ask for total enlightment?

Carl Spackler told me that he had obtained it.

I'd like to one-up that dang groundskeeper.


So what if no records were broken in lieu of the ban on tech suits?

D2


We can all, provocateurs everyone, benefit from getting to know the wisdom of the Lamma.

YouTube - Bill Murray, Caddy shack in the Dalai Lama skit , HD version!!

BR KnuckleDragger
December 28th, 2010, 11:59 AM
There are Masters Swimmers in the late 40s that are more ripped/less body fat than Lochte and Soni. I have body fat and I seem to manage just fine without a tech suit.

You might manage just fine without a suit but would be a heck of a lot faster with one...

Midas
December 28th, 2010, 01:23 PM
You might manage just fine without a suit but would be a heck of a lot faster with one...

You succinctly state the arguments both for and against the suits!