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gull
January 5th, 2011, 09:06 PM
I ask the question because when I returned to the pool last month after a three week taper for scm zones, I was swimming faster in practice than I had in decades. Now I cannot hold the same pace that seemed almost effortless just a week ago. So do I tough it out as usual until it's time to taper again, or do I schedule recovery weeks throughout the season?

The Fortress
January 5th, 2011, 09:18 PM
I absolutely need recovery weeks. Take them after 3-4 weeks of hard training. Sometimes I plan my recovery weeks to coincide with resting for a meet. I also seem to do better these days on longer and more frequent tapers.

JimRude
January 5th, 2011, 10:10 PM
Recovery from what? I do not train enough to need to recover from anything.

The Fortress
January 5th, 2011, 10:18 PM
Recovery from what? I do not train enough to need to recover from anything.

What?! P90X is a piece of cake?

gull
January 5th, 2011, 10:42 PM
Recovery from what? I do not train enough to need to recover from anything.

At one time I did not think I trained enough to justify even a one week taper.

Chris Stevenson
January 6th, 2011, 11:07 AM
Do I schedule recovery weeks throughout the season?

I do 3-4 tapers every year largely just for this reason: the tapers serve as recovery. (I like swimming fast too, though I don't necessarily like the tapering process itself.)

If you don't want to taper this much, then yes I would do a recovery week ("long slow distance") every so often.

ande
January 6th, 2011, 12:27 PM
I don't take recovery weeks, I sometimes I skip practices or sets or swim recovery workouts when I:

did several pretty hard back to back practices, or

am feeling run down or

am about to get sick or

just don't feel like killing it or

didn't sleep well or enough the night before or

feel injured.


Sometimes when I feel tired, I just go to bed or fall asleep earlier.

Also you can't always trust how you feel. I've had practices where I was getting sick or sick or felt terrible, some I almost skipped but showed up anyway & swam much faster than I expected to.

Sometimes if I'm feeling bad in a practice, I'll change suits into something faster. like go from brief to jammer or jammer to legskin. Sometimes I just skip parts of sets.

The beauty of masters is we can modify.

JimRude
January 6th, 2011, 12:44 PM
What?! P90X is a piece of cake?

At the risk of Geek telling me to take this lovefest elsewhere, I will answer your question thusly:

P90X has built in rest weeks, of which I most certainly partake. But I really don't swim enough to warrant rest weeks, other than my two tapers for SCY and LCM... and my extended August/September 5+ week break. LOL.

jim thornton
January 6th, 2011, 12:49 PM
I also seem to do better these days on longer and more frequent tapers.

Leslie, this way leads disaster.

Longer and more frequent tapers?

Bolderdash!

The meaning of life is longer and more frequent episodes of brutal self-punishment in the pool, severe dietary restriction outside of it, and total ignoring and refusal to coddle any symptoms of discomfort and/or illness, be this real, non-delusional hypochondrical, or delusional hypochondriacal.

If life is not a ceaseless torment and uninterrupted tribulation, you are not a Real Swimmer.

--from The Manifesto of a Non-Complaining Non-Delusional Hypochondriac Who Refuses to Surrender to His Nature

aquageek
January 6th, 2011, 12:52 PM
Everyone is entitled to recovery - the Monday after a swim meet. Now, toughen up, Tex.

Oh, and JimRude - get a room!

kgernert
January 6th, 2011, 01:00 PM
If you don't take recovery weeks, how do you maintain a high enough level of training readiness so that you are still improving? I find that by mid-week (especially after a really tough distance workout), my legs are absolutely dead - and each workout thereafter gets progressively worse/harder/more frustrating. Ideas?

orca1946
January 6th, 2011, 01:18 PM
Last night at practice, my brain was just not into it! I mentally pulled out in the middle of a set of 4 x 500. When I started up again my stroke was slow , even by my standards.

The Fortress
January 6th, 2011, 01:36 PM
Leslie, this way leads disaster.

Longer and more frequent tapers?

Bolderdash!

The meaning of life is longer and more frequent episodes of brutal self-punishment in the pool, severe dietary restriction outside of it, and total ignoring and refusal to coddle any symptoms of discomfort and/or illness, be this real, non-delusional hypochondrical, or delusional hypochondriacal.

If life is not a ceaseless torment and uninterrupted tribulation, you are not a Real Swimmer.

--from The Manifesto of a Non-Complaining Non-Delusional Hypochondrac
Who Refuses to Surrender to His Nature

What about brutal self punishment in the gym?

I was under the impression that Sprinters were deemed a separate species that did not qualify as Real Swimmers anyway.

pwb
January 6th, 2011, 01:53 PM
Like JimRude, on an intellectual level I don't train enough to deserve recovery, but on a physical level, my body seems to want all of the following:


at least one swim workout a week where I'm not paying too much attention to the clock or pushing myself hard,
ideally two days a week where I don't swim at all,
At least two major tapers a year, but probably some form of mini / drop-taper 3 to 4 times a year,
At least one, but probably more like 2-3 weeks a year where I don't swim at all

I'm becoming more a fan of trying to swim faster in a few sets in a few workouts a week than trying to just slog it through.

In all honesty, though, it's generally life getting in the way of my training that causes all except #3 above.

chaos
January 6th, 2011, 03:31 PM
i'll rest when i'm dead

jim thornton
January 6th, 2011, 03:53 PM
What about brutal self punishment in the gym?

I was under the impression that Sprinters were deemed a separate species that did not qualify as Real Swimmers anyway.

Brutal self punishment in the gym is merely an excuse to avoid brutal self punishment in the pitiless waters.

You cannot drown in the gym, or rather, you can, but it is what the pathologists call a "dry drowning."

Real Swimmers, be they distance swimmers, or sprinters, or the most chosen elite of them all, middle distance freestylers in their late 50s, live always in the shadow of "wet drowning"--this signature risk in their lives is, in fact, what makes them such compellingly heroic figures in the minds of gym rats and other terra-cognita-huddled land lubbers the world over!

Chris Stevenson
January 6th, 2011, 04:24 PM
Also you can't always trust how you feel. I've had practices where I was getting sick or sick or felt terrible, some I almost skipped but showed up anyway & swam much faster than I expected to.

That's a good point. There is a fine line between knowing when to suck it up and push it, and when to back off and recover.


i'll rest when i'm dead

Worked for Warren Zevon... (can't believe we don't have an RIP smilie)

aquageek
January 6th, 2011, 04:38 PM
(can't believe we don't have an RIP smilie)

Smilies are the third rail of things that adults should avoid.

Recovery is for the weak.

JimRude
January 6th, 2011, 04:50 PM
Recovery is for the weak.

Or for people with some fast twitch fibers and more than one gear.

That Guy
January 6th, 2011, 05:00 PM
Smilies are the third rail of things that adults should avoid.

Wait... that's a double avoidance... so they cancel out and you do like smilies after all!

:bliss::banana::bouncing::bolt::cane::bow:

rtodd
January 6th, 2011, 05:29 PM
I've taken a a week off on a few occasions and it takes me several workouts to get moving again. Especially in terms of my shoulders loosening up and feeling good. They definately atrophy if I don't swim for a full week. Recovery swims are great for staying loose and not letting this happen while your body heals from hard training.

gull
January 6th, 2011, 06:39 PM
I've taken a a week off on a few occasions and it takes me several workouts to get moving again.

That has been my experience as well. I was really referring to a recovery week during which I still swim but back off substantially on the intensity.

MickYoung
January 6th, 2011, 08:09 PM
The meaning of life is longer and more frequent episodes of brutal self-punishment in the pool, severe dietary restriction outside of it, and total ignoring and refusal to coddle any symptoms of discomfort and/or illness, be this real, non-delusional hypochondrical, or delusional hypochondriacal.



"All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine."

-Fast Times at Ridgemont High

The Fortress
January 6th, 2011, 08:12 PM
There is a fine line between knowing when to suck it up and push it, and when to back off and recover.


Perhaps that depends on whether one has a tendency to overtrain or undertrain and for which events one is training. I can see where one might still be faster if they did not "suck it up." Let us not forget Tall Paul's "less is more" theory.

Midas
January 6th, 2011, 08:13 PM
That has been my experience as well. I was really referring to a recovery week during which I still swim but back off substantially on the intensity.

Our team does that after the hour swim. That plus two plus weeks of tapering leading up to the hour swim and I've lost more than 50% of the cardio benefit earned from all the hard training I put in leading up to the hour by the end... Even at my master peaks, I've not been training enough to merit more than a very short (less than one week) taper and almost no recovery afterwards.

As a kid, I definitely needed the recovery weeks after the big meets. But the intensity was WAY higher...

guppy
January 6th, 2011, 10:32 PM
I would have thought that brutal self-punishment in the pool entitles me to disregard any severe dietary restrictions out of the pool.

jim thornton
January 6th, 2011, 11:04 PM
I would have thought that brutal self-punishment in the pool entitles me to disregard any severe dietary restrictions out of the pool.

Wrong! Do not lie to yourself!

If it feels good, it is bad.

Rykno
January 7th, 2011, 11:40 AM
I have a hard time backing off in the water. even when I try to swim slow I swim faster than I want to. But if I go too many days without being able to reach 90% I feel I need to step back I don't swim one day.

I miss too many workouts because of work and family so it doesn't happen too often that I miss practice because I want to.