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Green_Ghoul
January 12th, 2011, 09:25 PM
It's my first time swimming it, and the most fly i've done is 100, and that was only twice.

Any advice would be appreciated

Oh, my shoulders have been bothering me at practice, mostly during free or backstroke. On the rotator cuff on my left arm, the top of the shoulders on both harms and on the sides. Would icing and heating be sufficient? or icy hot possibly?

Thanks!

couldbebetterfly
January 12th, 2011, 09:48 PM
It's my first time swimming it, and the most fly i've done is 100, and that was only twice.

Any advice would be appreciated


The first time I swam 200 fly (SCM at the ripe old age of 27) my goal was to finish and be able to clear the water with my arms down the last length.

Start out slowly, slower than slowly, find an easy rhythm and stick with it for 6 lengths. If there is anything left put a bit more power into the final 50. Don't go blasting off on length 7 though 'cos the piano is always close by and breathe often.

Good luck!

(My 200 fly career was short though, I haven't swum it in probably 6 years :blush:)

That Guy
January 12th, 2011, 09:48 PM
It's my first time swimming it, and the most fly i've done is 100, and that was only twice.

Any advice would be appreciated

Swim it in practice, once per practice, until you gain some confidence... or at least some experience. You can approach the race as easy 125 + hard 75, or you can approach it as 8 x 25, or you can invent your own way of thinking about how to complete the race. Whatever you do, start out nice and easy. :applaud:

The Fortress
January 12th, 2011, 09:58 PM
Oh, my shoulders have been bothering me at practice, mostly during free or backstroke. On the rotator cuff on my left arm, the top of the shoulders on both harms and on the sides. Would icing and heating be sufficient? or icy hot possibly?



No heat. RC exercises and ice.

Green_Ghoul
January 12th, 2011, 10:21 PM
What would icy hot do? all i know is that my coach doesn't want me to use it before races

no200fly
January 13th, 2011, 12:12 AM
My advice - no 200 fly.

craig68
January 13th, 2011, 12:40 AM
200 used to be one of my better events eons ago. Here's what I can remember. Make sure you get plenty of air - breathe every stroke if you can. Slso concentrated on relatxing your arms the first 100 or 150 and concentrating on hips and legs driving forward. Your upper body can stay relatively loose and strong much longer than upper body can! Good luck!

analazy
January 13th, 2011, 03:02 AM
My second best event, after 400m medley… some times do it negative split .
Advice: first 100 do it SLOW, second 100 go for it!
If have pain go to a specialist….

geochuck
January 13th, 2011, 07:28 AM
I agree no 200 fly or change your swim technique completely. If the rotator cuff hurts while swimming front crawl you are doing something. Many doctors recommend to lay off swimming if your rotator cuff is giving you trouble.


wrong.
My advice - no 200 fly.

pwb
January 13th, 2011, 10:10 AM
No comments on the RC issues other than this: if it's pain and not just soreness, you have to treat that.

As for the 200 fly, this can be a beautiful event in SCM or SCY if you pace it right and make smart turns. Swimming it in LCM borders on insanity! My strategy is similar to others with some tweaks, especially since this is your first:

LOAF, LOAF, LOAF and LOAF HARD the first 125. I'm talking cruising big time.
Like Craig said, try to concentrate on loose & relaxed arms on your recovery.
Take your turns slowly, grab a lungful or two of air and then work that streamline for all it's worth off the walls. Don't worry about a massive number of underwater SDKs -- 2 or 3 is probably fine -- and don't do power kicks, just some easy kicks to move you forward.
I'm a breathe-every-other-stroke guy normally, but I will do my last 2 strokes into the wall with a breath.
Build the last 75 so that you finish with power and style.
Pump your fist and smash the water like Phelps after beating Cavic.
OK, I skip the last one, but you should do that to celebrate your first 200 fly!

jaadams1
January 13th, 2011, 01:02 PM
I know the correct answer is to take it out slowly and under control, so you can begin building the 2nd hundred to finish strong.
For me though this doesn't work (check with "That Guy" for more info, he always seems to run me down the last 50). I die either way on the 200 fly even though I'm still good at it. So in that matter, I just take it out at a fast "relaxed" pace, and try not to die coming home... :afraid:

The one I'm worried about is coming up on the 23rd... I'm swimming in this order: 200 Fly, 100, Fly, 50 Fly, 100 Free, & finishing with a 500 Fly. :roids::whiteflag: Any reason as to why the :censor: I'm doing this? Or at least how should I finish it? Or can I finish it?
I will finish it, but how pretty it will be is the real question. I will not do any drill strokes, but I cannot guarantee two hand touches on each wall (since it's the 500 Free I can't get DQ'd). :bow: 6:15 is my entry/goal time.

That Guy
January 13th, 2011, 01:29 PM
(check with "That Guy" for more info, he always seems to run me down the last 50)

Don't change a thing, James! :cheerleader::cheerleader::cheerleader:

As to the 500y fly you're doing, well just imagine how much easier it will be than, say, a 400 LCM fly! :afraid: (In LCM, I've never attempted anything more than 200 fly.)

gdanner
January 13th, 2011, 02:13 PM
My race strategy is usually:

100 cruise
50 hard
50 whatever is left - all out

Time wise: your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th 50's might all be pretty close if you try it like that...it works for me.

# of SDK's is 6 off start and 4 off the walls. But you have to do what is normal for you in practice. You don't want to be out of breath after the first 50.

isobel
January 13th, 2011, 02:23 PM
Worried about 200 yd Fly.

Uh, and so you should be, little grasshopper.* Though I am quite sure you can do it. Best of luck, and really, really take care of those rotator cuff pains!

*It is an arduous event, I believe.

jaadams1
January 13th, 2011, 02:25 PM
Don't change a thing, James! :cheerleader::cheerleader::cheerleader:

As to the 500y fly you're doing, well just imagine how much easier it will be than, say, a 400 LCM fly! :afraid: (In LCM, I've never attempted anything more than 200 fly.)

The 500 fly will be piece of cake...but be ready next time we duel in the 200 fly...time for a change...:bump:

Bobinator
January 13th, 2011, 03:17 PM
I've only done the 200 fly 2X in a meet. I am not very fast and I am a 55 year old female. I thoroughly enjoyed both my swims and my strategy was: Swim relaxed/smooth with a set breathing pattern the first 150; give it whatever is left the last 50 and breath all you want or need. My breathing pattern was alternate 2 strokes head down, 2 strokes w/breath.
I think having a pre-set plan to execute gave me a focus point while swimming and enabled me to NOT think about how tired or bad I felt!
Good luck and have fun!
ps--The only reason I swim this event is to score 1st place points for my team at the state master's meet. Both times I was unopposed so merely finishing without a dq secured the victory!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cane:

gigi
January 14th, 2011, 08:16 PM
Last year I did my first-ever 200 fly as part of a brute squad swim in practice. I went super slow and easy and realized that I could in fact put together 200m of fly without too much problem. Then I signed up for a 200scy event in a meet about a month later.
My strategy was just to go long and easy for the first 150 and pick it up for the last 50 since I had plenty left in the tank when I did it in practice.
If you feel like you're sinking just look back at your feet and it will help bring your backside up so you can stay on the surface and keep it together.
I'm no 200 fly specialist, but I'm going to keep doing it because every time I swim it, I swim it faster and smarter.
Slow and steady first time...pour it on next time!
Have fun

nkfrench
January 14th, 2011, 08:29 PM
One of my favorite answers was from a seasoned 200 flyer. Seems like it was in a USMS publication over a decade ago. Something like:

"Well, you know you're going to die anyhow ... so take your race out as fast as you can; get as far into the race as possible before the piano drops on your back."

Green_Ghoul
January 14th, 2011, 08:46 PM
"Well, you know you're going to die anyhow ... so take your race out as fast as you can; get as far into the race as possible before the piano drops on your back."

excellent quote.

jaadams1
January 14th, 2011, 08:51 PM
"Well, you know you're going to die anyhow ... so take your race out as fast as you can; get as far into the race as possible before the piano drops on your back."


Pretty much exactly how I swim it...when I don't die though, watch out cause I'll be doing pretty good. :banana::banana::banana:

geochuck
January 14th, 2011, 08:58 PM
My last 200 Fly was in 1956. I went out fast and died after 150. I finished and never did a 200 after that. Lots of 50s and 100s they are much easier to do.

Green_Ghoul
January 15th, 2011, 04:16 PM
I went a 2:50, which isn't what I was hoping for, but the least I can say is that I finished.

I went like a 1:15 on the first 100, then sort of died halfway through the third 50.

inflictfreedom
January 15th, 2011, 04:23 PM
yep, fly = pain and suffering. Sure, if I was getting paid to swim fly totally would ... otherwise, why? Seriously though it's all rhythm, which I could never catch, I always drown when I try. For those that can, maybe stick with IM's? Different strokes so the shoulder doesn't poke.

couldbebetterfly
January 15th, 2011, 09:00 PM
I went a 2:50, which isn't what I was hoping for, but the least I can say is that I finished.

I went like a 1:15 on the first 100, then sort of died halfway through the third 50.

Well you finished, which is an achievement in itself :applaud:, and you know to pace it better for next time - if there is a next time.

As for me - I'm with the PP and sticking to IMs when not swimming freestyle.

GGS5T
January 16th, 2011, 10:56 AM
Preparation is the key to doing a good 200 fly. If, in practice, you do something that nobody else will even contemplate, then you will succeed. You must do lots of fly in training. View it as just another stroke.

When I was 55 I did more fly in training than anyone else. (Probably in the world!). This prepared me mentally for the 8-length swim. When everyone else in the session did 20 x 100m front crawl, I tagged on at the back of the lane doing butterfly. After three months of doing this I was near the front of the lane and surprised at how slow the freestylers were swimming.

I've still got my log books, and looking back, I see that some sessions included 5 x 500m, 100 x 25m and 30 x 100m; all on butterfly. Sometimes I was covering almost 10,000m a day, with about 7,000m of this on butterfly.

Don't listen to the 'dream-busters' who will tell you there's no need to cover such distances. What they are really saying is, "I can't do it myself." In reality, they have never tried, so how can they possibly know what benefits there are to be gained? My best 200 metres short course at the age of 55 was 2:35.23. I did this in a time-trial at the club. My best 200 metres in competition was 2:37.95.

How to swim the race: You must remember that fitness is accumulative. The fitter you become - the faster you will be able to take out a race. If you become very fit on butterfly then (If you swim comfortably) your first 100 should be about 4 seconds slower than your best 100 time - and you won't even be out of breath! It's amazing, when swimming fly, just how fast you can swim when just trying to keep the stroke smooth. You will only experience this wonderful sensation when you are super fit on the stroke. If you find butterfly hard-going then I would suggest you are not doing enough work on this stroke in practice.

It is worth persevering. Butterfly, when swum correctly is the most beautiful stroke.

As for the RC injury, unfortunately, you need to rest it.

God luck with the swim. Try to 'glide' through the first 150 and all will be fine.

orca1946
January 19th, 2011, 12:42 PM
I don't like the swim fast till you die concept. Pace is used in all races & this is a 200 that should be well thought out - not go till you flame out and the guard pulls you to the finish .