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View Full Version : Preliminary Top Ten listing posted for SCM10 Season



Chris Stevenson
February 12th, 2011, 08:56 PM
Check it out (http://www.usms.org/comp/tt/) and brag on yourself (or others) here.

Please send any corrections to Mary Beth Windrath (mailto:topten@usms.org) (or PM me) by Feb 28.

couldbebetterfly
February 12th, 2011, 10:05 PM
:censor: If my in-laws hadn't been visiting I could have been up there for 1500 free and 200 fly........:bolt:

Speedo
February 13th, 2011, 12:00 AM
Damn that Kurt Dickson :applaud::applaud::applaud:

AA in 4 events!

That Guy
February 13th, 2011, 01:35 AM
Wow. For my age group, I just compared the 10th place times for 2010 with the 10th place times for 2009. Every single event was slower in 2010. In some cases, MUCH slower. I wish I had entered more SCM meets last year! This year I need to swim as many SCM meets as possible just to cover certain events... but I'm not going to do distance free just to get a top ten. I have principles here people!

If the same trend occurs in SCY this season, I may even be able to sneak in a top ten or two there. :rolleyes:

knelson
February 13th, 2011, 02:14 AM
Preliminarily eighth in the 200 breast! If I can hold on that gives me a Top Ten in all four strokes plus IM. In the other Top Ten thread someone mentioned Jeff Roddin has a Top Ten in every stroke AND every distance. I've still got some work to do to get anywhere near that. I'm having a hard time imagining ever making it in a 50 of any stroke. Even a 100 will be a stretch!

jaadams1
February 13th, 2011, 10:15 AM
... but I'm not going to do distance free just to get a top ten. :rolleyes:

Hey, I have no problem suffering through a race for a TT. That's exactly why I did the 1650 last weekend...but you won't see me swim it again till next year :afraid:If no one else want to take the honors of a TT spot, I'll gladly take it.

jaadams1
February 13th, 2011, 10:35 AM
Wow. For my age group, I just compared the 10th place times for 2010 with the 10th place times for 2009. Every single event was slower in 2010. In some cases, MUCH slower. I wish I had entered more SCM meets last year! This year I need to swim as many SCM meets as possible just to cover certain events... but I'm not going to do distance free just to get a top ten. I have principles here people!

If the same trend occurs in SCY this season, I may even be able to sneak in a top ten or two there. :rolleyes:


I agree with you on the slower times in 2010 vs. 2009. In the 30-34 it is basically the same trend. Slower top end times, and even really slower #10 spots in most events. Maybe I can make the 50 free!!! Yea right.

That Guy
February 13th, 2011, 11:03 AM
Preliminarily eighth in the 200 breast! If I can hold on that gives me a Top Ten in all four strokes plus IM. In the other Top Ten thread someone mentioned Jeff Roddin has a Top Ten in every stroke AND every distance. I've still got some work to do to get anywhere near that. I'm having a hard time imagining ever making it in a 50 of any stroke. Even a 100 will be a stretch!

Great job Kirk! I don't have to worry about matching Jeff's achievement until around 2050 at the earliest. I swam the 200 LCM breast in 2009 and 2010 to try and grab a top ten (didn't get it though); what these preliminary results tell me is that I need to swim the 200 breast in SCM as well. And the 200 IM. And the 400 free. And the 200 free. (In 2011 I've already posted ok times in the 200 back, 200 fly, and 400 IM.) As for distance free... I might be able to swim a 1500m backstroke and make the top ten. Doesn't look like I could (successfully) pull any shenanigans like that in the 800 though. Not saying that I will actually swim either event. Principles!

knelson
February 13th, 2011, 12:32 PM
what these preliminary results tell me is that I need to swim the 200 breast in SCM as well.

Absolutely. The fact I'm 20 seconds slower than the number one time doesn't bother me a bit! :)

swimshark
February 14th, 2011, 07:47 AM
Hey, I have no problem suffering through a race for a TT. That's exactly why I did the 1650 last weekend...but you won't see me swim it again till next year :afraid:If no one else want to take the honors of a TT spot, I'll gladly take it.

I'm right there with you. I do the 400IM and get in. 5th this year.

Kevinj
February 14th, 2011, 12:48 PM
Wow what a difference compared to last year.... At least in my age group.

Chris Stevenson
February 14th, 2011, 03:09 PM
brag on yourself (or others) here

I'm going to brag on my small little workout group in Richmond, VA: about 35 people or so who practice 3 or more times a week, coached by Mark Kutz. This group produced:

-- 47 TT individual swims by 7 different people: Kate Hibbard, Claire Russo, Betsy Turner, Lisa Bennett, Billy Gaines, Dave Holland, and me
-- 13 top-ranked swim (4 different people)
-- 4 TT relays in which 3 or more swimmers were in our group; 3 of these were top-ranked swims (one was a national/world record)

I think six of us (plus Mark) will be going to Arizona, it will be fun.

Karl_S
February 14th, 2011, 04:10 PM
...
I think six of us (plus Mark) will be going to Arizona, it will be fun.

This appears to be Chris' very polite way of throwing down the gauntlet.
Let me translate: "So you think you are fast? Come to Mesa. We have something to say about that."

Kidding aside, Great Job by a dedicated group!

That Guy
February 14th, 2011, 05:44 PM
Hey, I have no problem suffering through a race for a TT. That's exactly why I did the 1650 last weekend...but you won't see me swim it again till next year :afraid:If no one else want to take the honors of a TT spot, I'll gladly take it.

I think having a little fun with distance swims makes them less boring. Like my 1500 backstroke idea, or when I threatened to stop turning the numbers at the 43 length mark of your 1650. And then there's this. I know what happened so I won't spoil it. Can anyone guess what he did? :lmao:

Men 30-34 1000 Yard Freestyle
================================================== =========================
Pl Name Age Club Seed Time Final Time Points
================================================== =========================
1 Adams, James A 33 HMS 11:13.65 11:43.38
29.22 1:04.16(34.94) 1:37.17(33.01) 2:13.45(36.28)
2:48.28(34.83) 3:25.12(36.84) 4:00.41(35.29) 4:38.43(38.02)
5:14.72(36.29) 5:51.90(37.18) 6:28.40(36.50) 7:06.27(37.87)
7:42.52(36.25) 8:18.65(36.13) 8:55.00(36.35) 9:30.83(35.83)
10:07.05(36.22) 10:42.74(35.69) 11:12.75(30.01) 11:43.38(30.63)

jaadams1
February 14th, 2011, 06:26 PM
I think having a little fun with distance swims makes them less boring. Like my 1500 backstroke idea, or when I threatened to stop turning the numbers at the 43 length mark of your 1650. And then there's this. I know what happened so I won't spoil it. Can anyone guess what he did? :lmao:

Men 30-34 1000 Yard Freestyle
================================================== =========================
Pl Name Age Club Seed Time Final Time Points
================================================== =========================
1 Adams, James A 33 HMS 11:13.65 11:43.38
29.22 1:04.16(34.94) 1:37.17(33.01) 2:13.45(36.28)
2:48.28(34.83) 3:25.12(36.84) 4:00.41(35.29) 4:38.43(38.02)
5:14.72(36.29) 5:51.90(37.18) 6:28.40(36.50) 7:06.27(37.87)
7:42.52(36.25) 8:18.65(36.13) 8:55.00(36.35) 9:30.83(35.83)
10:07.05(36.22) 10:42.74(35.69) 11:12.75(30.01) 11:43.38(30.63)

Oooooohhh ...pick me!! pick me!!! I know!!!

:)

jaadams1
February 14th, 2011, 06:31 PM
I think having a little fun with distance swims makes them less boring. Like my 1500 backstroke idea, or when I threatened to stop turning the numbers at the 43 length mark of your 1650. And then there's this. I know what happened so I won't spoil it. Can anyone guess what he did? :lmao:

Men 30-34 1000 Yard Freestyle
================================================== =========================
Pl Name Age Club Seed Time Final Time Points
================================================== =========================
1 Adams, James A 33 HMS 11:13.65 11:43.38
29.22 1:04.16(34.94) 1:37.17(33.01) 2:13.45(36.28)
2:48.28(34.83) 3:25.12(36.84) 4:00.41(35.29) 4:38.43(38.02)
5:14.72(36.29) 5:51.90(37.18) 6:28.40(36.50) 7:06.27(37.87)
7:42.52(36.25) 8:18.65(36.13) 8:55.00(36.35) 9:30.83(35.83)
10:07.05(36.22) 10:42.74(35.69) 11:12.75(30.01) 11:43.38(30.63)

It's hard to figure out unless you were there, or look at the splits carefully...

For the first 700 I did:
50 Fly followed by a 50 Free EZ (my fly splits were actually faster than my free ones)
the did a 200 free EZ,
followed by a 100 fast trying to hit 1:00 or under.

That Guy is right that "playing" with a distance event can make it go by easier...in fact during one of my open turns at the counter end I had to correct my counter that he was on the wrong lap. :banana:

swimshark
February 15th, 2011, 08:00 AM
I'm going to brag on my small little workout group in Richmond, VA: about 35 people or so who practice 3 or more times a week, coached by Mark Kutz. This group produced:

-- 47 TT individual swims by 7 different people: Kate Hibbard, Claire Russo, Betsy Turner, Lisa Bennett, Billy Gaines, Dave Holland, and me
-- 13 top-ranked swim (4 different people)
-- 4 TT relays in which 3 or more swimmers were in our group; 3 of these were top-ranked swims (one was a national/world record)

I think six of us (plus Mark) will be going to Arizona, it will be fun.

Way to go. And you all did so well this weekend, too.

Chris Stevenson
February 15th, 2011, 09:11 AM
Way to go. And you all did so well this weekend, too.

You were tearing it up yourself. How many PBs?

Hoosier
February 15th, 2011, 11:11 AM
Congrats to your group Chris.......must be fun to be at one of your practices...I of course would be lapped time and again..but still a dedicated group like that is awesome.

tjrpatt
February 15th, 2011, 11:39 AM
I was the only TT swimmer from all 3 workout groups that I attend. Of course, one is an age group one and that doesn't count.

Chris Stevenson
February 15th, 2011, 12:38 PM
Congrats to your group Chris.......must be fun to be at one of your practices...I of course would be lapped time and again..but still a dedicated group like that is awesome.

It isn't all fast people, by any means. We even have (gasp) triathletes. Though actually our triathletes are generally pretty fast swimmers, even if they mostly do freestyle.

We do pretty much race-pace training, though, which does discourage the "lap swimmer" mentality, and perhaps encourages people to participate in competitions. The triathletes still like it, though. (Well, if they didn't, I guess they'd move on...)

thewookiee
February 15th, 2011, 12:49 PM
It isn't all fast people, by any means. We even have (gasp) triathletes. Though actually our triathletes are generally pretty fast swimmers, even if they mostly do freestyle.

We do pretty much race-pace training, though, which does discourage the "lap swimmer" mentality, and perhaps encourages people to participate in competitions. The triathletes still like it, though. (Well, if they didn't, I guess they'd move on...)

How long did it take for you do adapt to Mark's race pace training, when you started swimming with him? It seems most of your practice, even on distance days are more race pace instead of long slow distance

swimshark
February 15th, 2011, 01:49 PM
You were tearing it up yourself. How many PBs?

Aw, thanks. Four PB's out of 6 events. Just missed a PB in the 5th event. Darn missed turn. hee-hee

Chris Stevenson
February 15th, 2011, 02:01 PM
How long did it take for you do adapt to Mark's race pace training, when you started swimming with him? It seems most of your practice, even on distance days are more race pace instead of long slow distance

I don't know about "most." I think it comes down to 10-15% or so (accordingn to my calculations for the past few weeks), though you are right that there is something fast on most days. I believe that is a Salo philosophy too.

Partly that's because not everyone comes to every practice; most do not, in fact. So if you don't have something fast almost every day, then some people might miss that type of set through bad (good?) luck.

Though there are many exceptions, a typical workout might look something like:

1. Warmup set

2. Longer and/or aerobic type of set. This might be above LT but it won't be race-pace speed or intensity. For many people in the practice this might be a low- (or at least medium-) rest set, but it doesn't always work out that way for me.

The first two sets we are usually in 3-4 lanes and are often crowded (5-7 swimmers per lane). After -- or sometime during, maybe -- this 2nd set the age-groupers get out and we can spread out a little for the rest of practice. (That option goes away in the summer.)

3. Kick set. Sometimes this is also a quality set, but often not.

4. Race-pace set

What Mark has been doing lately is giving people a choice on set #4: either a race-pace or sprint set (they aren't quite the same thing) or a distance set. I'll sometimes alternate between the two, and sometimes I'll make this an aerobic set, somewhere below LT.

I do hate long/slow swimming, I'll admit. Boring.

ElaineK
February 15th, 2011, 02:55 PM
Aw, thanks. Four PB's out of 6 events. Just missed a PB in the 5th event. Darn missed turn. hee-hee

:applaud: :bow: Way to go, Alison! You GO girl!!! :cheerleader:

ghost88
February 16th, 2011, 11:57 AM
Kind of hard to swim as a ghost!!!:angel:

Chris Stevenson
March 21st, 2011, 08:05 PM
The finalized Top Ten listings for SCM 2010 have been posted (http://www.usms.org/comp/tt/). A formatted listing (suitable for printing) will be uploaded shortly and will be available here:

http://www.usms.org/content/top10print

The listing of 2010 pool All-Americans (now with all three courses) is here:

http://www.usms.org/comp/aa/aalist.php?CourseType=pool&Year=2010

The listing of 2010 pool All-Stars is here:

http://www.usms.org/comp/as/aslist.php?CourseType=pool&Year=2010

gigi
March 21st, 2011, 08:21 PM
YAH! My first Top Ten EVER! Just squeaked in on the 100 fly! After finishing 11th in 3 events for LCM, I'd sworn off even checking these things. Luckily I just took a peek!

I guess there's still time for the whole thing to go south...maybe I should just stop talking now...

gigi
March 21st, 2011, 09:14 PM
YAH! My first Top Ten EVER! Just squeaked in on the 100 fly! After finishing 11th in 3 events for LCM, I'd sworn off even checking these things. Luckily I just took a peek!

I guess there's still time for the whole thing to go south...maybe I should just stop talking now...

HAHA! The whole thing did go south! I just checked my swimmer info page, and I didn't even swim the 100 scm fly in 2010! Clearly this is just an error of some sort...

It was fun while it lasted!

Frank Thompson
March 22nd, 2011, 10:28 AM
The finalized Top Ten listings for SCM 2010 have been posted (http://www.usms.org/comp/tt/). A formatted listing (suitable for printing) will be uploaded shortly and will be available here:

http://www.usms.org/content/top10print

The listing of 2010 pool All-Americans (now with all three courses) is here:

http://www.usms.org/comp/aa/aalist.php?CourseType=pool&Year=2010

The listing of 2010 pool All-Stars is here:

http://www.usms.org/comp/as/aslist.php?CourseType=pool&Year=2010

Any idea of when the 2010 pool Relay All-Americans with all 3 courses will be listed. It appears that SCY and LCM are listed. The reason I ask is that I had swimmers see there Relays as Number 1 in the World in the 2010 FINA rankings in the relays and they did not see there names in the 2010 Relay All Americans. Some are first timers and they want there certificate and patch and I told them to wait until its official. And they say it has to be official because they have already ordered them from FINA.

Chris Stevenson
March 22nd, 2011, 10:52 AM
Any idea of when the 2010 pool Relay All-Americans with all 3 courses will be listed. It appears that SCY and LCM are listed. The reason I ask is that I had swimmers see there Relays as Number 1 in the World in the 2010 FINA rankings in the relays and they did not see there names in the 2010 Relay All Americans. Some are first timers and they want there certificate and patch and I told them to wait until its official. And they say it has to be official because they have already ordered them from FINA.

Check again. I was pretty sure I had already done them, but I deleted them (ie, the 2010 relay AAs) and re-assigned them. They should all be there at this point.

Chris Stevenson
March 22nd, 2011, 11:24 AM
Also, I meant to point out that ordering information for Top Ten patches is here:

http://www.usms.org/comp/tt/t10_patches.php

Frank Thompson
March 22nd, 2011, 11:24 AM
Check again. I was pretty sure I had already done them, but I deleted them (ie, the 2010 relay AAs) and re-assigned them. They should all be there at this point.

Its all good. Thanks Chris. Now everybody will be happy and they can order there patches and certificates.

ALM
March 22nd, 2011, 05:11 PM
Any idea of when the 2010 pool Relay All-Americans with all 3 courses will be listed. It appears that SCY and LCM are listed. The reason I ask is that I had swimmers see there Relays as Number 1 in the World in the 2010 FINA rankings in the relays and they did not see there names in the 2010 Relay All Americans. Some are first timers and they want there certificate and patch and I told them to wait until its official. And they say it has to be official because they have already ordered them from FINA.

We have newly-redesigned Relay All-American patches. They are beautiful! They were designed by Doug Garcia.

Chris Stevenson
March 24th, 2011, 05:40 AM
There is no national championship for SCM, but using the TT list I've scored the unofficial "Mythical National Championship" for SCM10. Bragging rights go to

1. Top Zone: Southwest, barely edging out Colonies (by 60-ish points out of 8000). It was close enough that I was tempted to jigger the point system to get CZ on top... :)

2. Top LMSC: Pacific over South Pacific (2) and New England (3).

3. Top Clubs: New England Masters (top regional club and #1 overall) and San Diego Swim Masters (top local club and #2 overall).

Details, including explanation of scoring and full listings, are here (http://www.vaswim.org/mythical-champs/).

Let the trash-talking commence. For example, I was happy but unsurprised to see that the Virginia LMSC thrashed its neighbors to the north (PV) and south (NC). Or that VMST was the #2 local club, even edging out supposed "powerhouse" Walnut Creek.

Frank Thompson
March 24th, 2011, 07:59 AM
Chris:

Nice work. Was this done the same way as last with all the parameters. This is great for both LMSC's and Clubs to analyze how they did for the 2010 year.

A couple of observations. The LMSC's and Clubs that get swimmers to the big meets especially USMS Nationals and then Zones are a big contributing factor to the scoring of points.

The winners are not surprising. NE with the two big meets for SCY and SCM helps there cause especially for relays. That would also explain why they did not score as well in the LCM. FLA and Gold would make sense for LCM because they had a great showing at LCN in Puerto Rico.

I was surprised that GAJA wasn't higher because they won the SCN in Atlanta by 7 points but I guess they must of scored out of the Top Ten. My Club, Michigan Masters got 4th in the SCN and as I expected North Carolina and Colorado were the 2nd and 3rd place Clubs at SCN to be ahead of Michigan and they were.

We had an extra SCM meet in Michigan this year and that made a difference of being the 3rd place Club. Last year we were second in LCM but because we had a little turnout at LCN we fell to 14th in LCM.

Chris Stevenson
March 24th, 2011, 08:51 AM
Nice work. Was this done the same way as last with all the parameters. This is great for both LMSC's and Clubs to analyze how they did for the 2010 year.

Yes, I just copy the new data into the old spreadsheet and voila. Getting the data is the most time-consuming step, though it doesn't take all that long (maybe 30 min for the entire process once I begin).

Jeff Roddin once suggested I normalize by the membership numbers in each zone and lmsc but I don't have (easy) access to that data, other than going to Club Assistant's website and finding it out one by one for each LMSC. I can get the TT data in bigger "chunks" (ie, by zone).

pwb
March 24th, 2011, 09:11 AM
There is no national championship for SCM, but using the TT list I've scored the unofficial "Mythical National Championship" for SCM10. Bragging rights go to

1. Top Zone: Southwest, barely edging out Colonies (by 60-ish points out of 8000). It was close enough that I was tempted to jigger the point system to get CZ on top... :)This is surprising on first blush to me until I recall that we in the southwest have both Southern Pacific and San Diego Imperial in our Zone. I think we Arizonans and New Mexicans need to thank our Californian neighbors for bumping our Zone to #1.

Karen Duggan
March 24th, 2011, 12:32 PM
Or that VMST was the #2 local club, even edging out supposed "powerhouse" Walnut Creek.

Ooooh. You wanna step outside?
:D