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ande
February 28th, 2011, 04:45 PM
2011 NCAAs

2011 Championships Handbook (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/swimming_diving/2011/11_1_swimming.pdf)


2011 NCAA Division 1 Women's Swimming and Diving Championships (http://www.ncaa.com/championships/swimming-women/d1)
March 17 - 19, 2011
Austin, TX
University of Texas Swimming Center

Official Psych Sheet (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/ce61fbf7-aba9-48df-9fbc-ee148137e884/DI%20Women's%20Championships%20-%20Uncut%20Psych%20Sheet.pdf)



2011 NCAA Division 1 Men's Swimming and Diving Championships (http://www.ncaa.com/championships/swimming-men/d1)
March 24 - 26, 2011
Minneapolis, Minn
University of Minnessota Aquatic Center

Uncut Psych Sheet (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/db34cb29-e74f-49eb-b001-5f02f29556dd/DI%20men%20Uncut%20Psych%20Sheet.pdf)


LEGAL SUITS


more details to follow as they become available

That Guy
February 28th, 2011, 06:02 PM
Division II Psych Sheet (M & W): http://www.ncaa.com/news/swimming-men/2011-02-24/swimming-psych-sheet-released

Division II has the best championship format, hands down. Four days, swimmers can compete in up to four events, and they run the 1000 free. Although they do have the 200 fly and the 500 free on the same day. http://www.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/files/SOE11DIIMWSD_for%20ncaa.pdf

KEWebb18
February 28th, 2011, 07:12 PM
I'm curious as to how many swimmers with "B" cuts are able to enter in the meet. There were a TON of "B" cuts at some of the smaller conferences, so hopefully it means some good opportunities for these swimmers to step up and compete on a national level.

stillwater
February 28th, 2011, 08:40 PM
Message deleted.

Atlantic
March 1st, 2011, 02:15 PM
Message deleted.

I thought it was funny!

:)

Anyways, I'm pumped to watch NCAA's... but I still have to get caught up on the conference meets that I DVR'd.

That Guy
March 1st, 2011, 03:16 PM
Message deleted.

Stillwater, from this day forward when I read your messages, it will be in the voice of the voice-mail lady.

hofffam
March 1st, 2011, 04:53 PM
Texas A&M leads all Div 1 schools with the # of women qualifiers - 15 without divers (yet). Psych sheet before cuts below:

Psych Sheet (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/ce61fbf7-aba9-48df-9fbc-ee148137e884/DI%20Women's%20Championships%20-%20Uncut%20Psych%20Sheet.pdf)

ande
March 2nd, 2011, 12:45 PM
Texas A&M leads all Div 1 schools with the # of women qualifiers - 15 without divers (yet). Psych sheet before cuts below:

Psych Sheet (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/ce61fbf7-aba9-48df-9fbc-ee148137e884/DI%20Women's%20Championships%20-%20Uncut%20Psych%20Sheet.pdf)

here's a break down of
A cuts, 1st, 8th, & 16th

curious to find out if 8th & 16th will be faster or slower than the entry times

Event 1 200 Freestyle Relay
2 made A cut
1 Texas A 1:28.15
8 Virginia B 1:29.21
16 Florida B 1:29.94


Event 2 500 Freestyle
8 made A cut
1 Vreeland, Shannon FR Georgia A 4:36.28
8 Trott, Wendy JR Georgia A 4:38.37
16 Cheverton, Samantha SR Ohio St B 4:39.71


Event 3 200 Individual Medley
5 made a cut
1 Hosszu, Katinka JR Southern Cali A 1:53.47
8 Smith, Elizabeth SR Stanford B 1:57.00
16 Gardell, Stina FR Southern Cali B 1:57.78


Event 4 50 Freestyle
1 Vanderpool-Wallace, Arianna JR Auburn A 21.34
8 Geer, Margo FR Arizona B 22.16
16 Sommer, Maria SR Texas A&M B 22.29


Event 6 400 Medley Relay
6 made A cut
1 Cal Berkeley A 3:28.99
8 UNC B 3:33.60
16 UCLA B 3:35.83


Event 7 200 Medley Relay
10 made A cut
1 Cal Berkeley A 1:35.62
8 Tennessee A 1:37.09
16 Michigan B 1:38.35


Event 8 400 Individual Medley
11 made A cut
1 Hosszu, Katinka JR Southern Cali A 4:00.03
8 Margalis, Melanie FR Georgia A 4:05.65
16 Mangimelli, Jana SO Georgia B 4:08.13


Event 9 100 Butterfly
5 made A cut
1 De Paul, Lyndsay SR Southern Cali A 51.34
8 Kendall, Amanda SO Louisiana St B 52.14
16 Kuczynski, Caroline SO Arizona St B 52.52


Event 10 200 Freestyle
4 made A cut
1 Scroggy, Morgan SR Georgia A 1:42.46
8 Cheverton, Samantha SR Ohio St B 1:44.56
16 Martin, Ariel SR Purdue B 1:45.25


Event 11 100 Breaststroke
13 made A cut
1 Tyler, Jillian SR Minnesota A 58.08
8 Wanland, Ashley JR Wisconsin A 59.65
16 Lindsay, Laura JR Toledo B 1:00.21


Event 12 100 Backstroke
8 made A cut
1 Tran, Cindy FR Cal Berkeley A 51.22
8 Conci, Kelsey JR Wyoming A 52.54
16 Shickora, Kristen JR Georgia B 52.78


Event 14 800 Freestyle Relay
5 made A cut
1 Georgia A 6:53.58
8 Arizona B 7:02.74
16 Purdue B 7:06.90


Event 15 1650 Freestyle
3 made A cuts
1 Anderson, Haley SO Southern Cali A 15:48.64
8 Showalter, Corinne SO Florida B 16:02.92
16 Mathieu, Alicia FR Florida B 16:10.41


Event 16 200 Backstroke
8 made A cuts
1 Beisel, Elizabeth FR Florida A 1:51.55
8 Gaid, Kelsey SO Georgia A 1:53.32
16 Cavalier, Meredith SO Virginia B 1:54.27


Event 17 100 Freestyle
2 made A cuts
1 Vanderpool-Wallace, Arianna JR Auburn A 46.81
8 Murez, Andrea SO Stanford B 48.28
16 Martin, Ariel SR Purdue B 48.68


Event 18 200 Breaststroke
10 made A cuts
1 Leverenz, Caitlin SO Cal Berkeley A 2:06.55
8 Vavra, Allysa JR Indiana A 2:09.25
16 Fogle, Emily FR Purdue B 2:10.57


Event 19 200 Butterfly
7 made A cuts
1 Hosszu, Katinka JR Southern Cali A 1:51.02
8 Medrano, Rita JR Texas A&M B 1:55.04
16 Nugent, Amanda SO West Virginia B 1:56.64


Event 21 400 Freestyle Relay
6 made A cuts
1 Auburn A 3:13.03
8 Southern Cali B 3:15.39
16 Maryland B 3:17.44

ande
March 8th, 2011, 11:52 AM
women's Div 1 NCAA Swimming & diving championships (http://www.ncaa.com/championships/swimming-women/d1)


2011 Div women's Psych Sheet (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/ce61fbf7-aba9-48df-9fbc-ee148137e884/DI%20Women's%20Championships%20-%20Uncut%20Psych%20Sheet.pdf)

pwb
March 8th, 2011, 01:00 PM
Psych Sheet (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/ce61fbf7-aba9-48df-9fbc-ee148137e884/DI%20Women%27s%20Championships%20-%20Uncut%20Psych%20Sheet.pdf)OK, now I have goal times for Masters' Nationals -- beat the last place invited time for women's NCAAs with a stretch goal (big stretch in most cases) to make the 30th seed time! Oh, how the once-semi-mighty have fallen! These women are smoking fast.

Chris Stevenson
March 8th, 2011, 01:08 PM
OK, now I have goal times for Masters' Nationals -- beat the last place invited time for women's NCAAs with a stretch goal (big stretch in most cases) to make the 30th seed time! Oh, how the once-semi-mighty have fallen! These women are smoking fast.

They sure are.

I used to play around with goals like those, though they are a little depressing. Similar ones that have now become too fast for me:

-- beat the women's WR, which obviously only works in LCM and SCM. (When I was in HS I remember being excited the first time I beat Mary T's 200 fly record, which was new at the time.)

-- beat the men's LCM world record...in SCY.

I think now I am down to trying to beat the women's LCM world record with SCM times.

That Guy
March 8th, 2011, 01:19 PM
They sure are.

I used to play around with goals like those, though they are a little depressing. Similar ones that have now become too fast for me:

-- beat the women's WR, which obviously only works in LCM and SCM. (When I was in HS I remember being excited the first time I beat Mary T's 200 fly record, which was new at the time.)

-- beat the men's LCM world record...in SCY.

I think now I am down to trying to beat the women's LCM world record with SCM times.

You think THAT'S depressing? Peer into my world (if you dare) U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - 2011 College Conference Championships :badday::badday::badday::badday:

That Guy
March 8th, 2011, 01:59 PM
Division III Psych Sheet (http://www.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/files/DIIIofficial%20psych%20sheet.pdf)

pwb
March 8th, 2011, 02:03 PM
They sure are.

I used to play around with goals like those, though they are a little depressing. Similar ones that have now become too fast for me:

-- beat the women's WR, which obviously only works in LCM and SCM. (When I was in HS I remember being excited the first time I beat Mary T's 200 fly record, which was new at the time.)

-- beat the men's LCM world record...in SCY.

I think now I am down to trying to beat the women's LCM world record with SCM times.Yeah, I'm realizing that my target USAS competitors are fast 13-14 year olds these days!

Chris Stevenson
March 8th, 2011, 02:23 PM
Yeah, I'm realizing that my target USAS competitors are fast 13-14 year olds these days!

You meant 13-14 yo girls, right? I saw this interview with my former UNC teammate Dan Flack:

YouTube - MSS: Dan Flack


and I happened to notice that he casually refers to one of his sophomore HS girls -- the daughter of another college teammate of mine -- who went 22.4 in the 50 free. (Okay, maybe she's 15 or 16, that's still pretty darn fast...!)

thewookiee
March 8th, 2011, 02:31 PM
You meant 13-14 yo girls, right? I saw this interview with my former UNC teammate Dan Flack:

YouTube - MSS: Dan Flack (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfXQo45_vOc)


and I happened to notice that he casually refers to one of his sophomore HS girls -- the daughter of another college teammate of mine -- who went 22.4 in the 50 free. (Okay, maybe she's 15 or 16, that's still pretty darn fast...!)


Chris,

Dan coaches at where Roger and I went to prep school. Roger's daughter went :48+ in the 100 free this year at the TN state meet, along with the :22.4
She is latest in the line of swimmers from that family. Her older brother is a sophmore at UVA this year. He won the TN state in the 200 free his senior year. She has her mother's height genes. You know all about her dad's swimming ability. Doesn't hurt that her uncle was a swimmer at Tennessee about the same time you and Roger swam at UNC.

pwolf66
March 8th, 2011, 02:59 PM
Division III Psych Sheet (http://www.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/files/DIIIofficial%20psych%20sheet.pdf)


WOOT!!! Go David Somers!!!!

Product of the AG team I coach for and a really great person.

matysekj
March 8th, 2011, 03:06 PM
Speaking of fast 14 year olds:

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20110307/ARTICLE/110309561/2050/SPORTS?Title=As-good-as-it-gets

A 4:26 500 at age 14? Seriously?

ande
March 8th, 2011, 03:26 PM
Very Impressive

here's the ALL Time Age Group Top 100 Lists (http://www.usaswimming.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=1487&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en-US)


Speaking of fast 14 year olds:
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20110307/ARTICLE/110309561/2050/SPORTS?Title=As-good-as-it-gets
A 4:26 500 at age 14? Seriously?

Chris Stevenson
March 8th, 2011, 06:21 PM
She has her mother's height genes. You know all about her dad's swimming ability.

Her mother is more than just tall: she was on the varsity volleyball team in college. Lots of good genes in that pool...

knelson
March 8th, 2011, 06:42 PM
Event 2 500 Freestyle
8 made A cut
1 Vreeland, Shannon FR Georgia A 4:36.28
8 Trott, Wendy JR Georgia A 4:38.37
16 Cheverton, Samantha SR Ohio St B 4:39.71

Wow, this should be a good one!

And speaking of fast kids, there's a freshman here in Washington (Ed Kim) who just won both the 50 and 100 free at high school states a couple weeks ago. He swam a 45 mid in the 100 at states, but late last year at a USS meet he swam a 45.2 as a 14 year old in the 100! Interestingly, the second place finisher in both the 50 and 100 free was another freshman. Should be a good rivalry in years to come.

Lump
March 8th, 2011, 10:56 PM
Speaking of fast 14 year olds:

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20110307/ARTICLE/110309561/2050/SPORTS?Title=As-good-as-it-gets

A 4:26 500 at age 14? Seriously?

Impressive! I was 4:26 coming OUT of High School in 1989, he's 4:26 and not even in yet!

ande
March 9th, 2011, 09:58 AM
NCAA INFORMATION (http://www.usaswimming.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=1494&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en-US)


2011 Div 1 Womens Official Psych Sheet (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/1afc2dab-3b88-417b-85de-e74c95b378f4/DI%20Women's%20Championships%20-Uncut%20Invited%20Swimmers%20By%20Team.pdf)


2011 Div 1 Women's Invited Swimmers (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/1afc2dab-3b88-417b-85de-e74c95b378f4/DI%20Women's%20Championships%20-Uncut%20Invited%20Swimmers%20By%20Team.pdf)


2011 Div 1 Men's Uncut Psych Sheet (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/db34cb29-e74f-49eb-b001-5f02f29556dd/DI%20men%20Uncut%20Psych%20Sheet.pdf)

KEWebb18
March 9th, 2011, 07:00 PM
First-ever swimmer from the Horizon League to head to NCAAs!

http://horizonleague.org/blog/uwms-mcclellan-heading-to-ncaa-championships.html

west1
March 10th, 2011, 04:51 PM
First-ever swimmer from the Horizon League to head to NCAAs!

http://horizonleague.org/blog/uwms-mcclellan-heading-to-ncaa-championships.html

Go mid-majors!

ande
March 10th, 2011, 09:44 PM
2011 Men's NCAA official psych sheet (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/9b5d6b4c-a0bd-4d00-965c-efbc4c5f7597/DI%20Men%20Official%20Psych%20Sheet%20(after%20mic higan%20scratch).pdf)

ande
March 14th, 2011, 05:17 PM
Womens Div 1 NCAAs begin Thu Mar 17 in Austin, TX at the UT swim Center where I train. The UT swim center is transforming for womens NCAAs, I took a few pics that I'll post on my FB. Tue is our last masters practice, then we are out of the swim center Wed - Sat.


Here's a few of the changes:

the mens locker room now has no benches
it is going to be the Massage and ice bath room

Blue and white NCAA backstroke flags are strung across the competition pool & warmup areas.

there's 2 HUGE blue and white NCAA plastic dots are on the bottom of the pool (like 8 feet across) I pushed them into place after practice, they are between lanes 4 & 5 under the backstroke flags on each end.

New American and Texas flags got installed on the north end of the pool.

There's a big welcome to NCAA's banner on the brick wall outside the swim center along Martind Luther King street.

I have tix and I'm looking forward to watching the meet.

Ande

tjburk
March 15th, 2011, 08:43 AM
Anyone know why they only have 13 teams for the 200 FR REL? You would think that since they are already having 2 heats, they would invite 16 if it's a 8 lane pool or 20 if it's 10...anyone?

tjburk
March 15th, 2011, 10:04 AM
One other question...why do they "invite" slower swimmers to swim events at NCAAs? Is it because they are already swimming another event they qualified for? I noticed the 50 FR has people that have gone a 20+ when there were over 40 that were under 20 on the "uncut" list...

thewookiee
March 15th, 2011, 10:50 AM
One other question...why do they "invite" slower swimmers to swim events at NCAAs? Is it because they are already swimming another event they qualified for? I noticed the 50 FR has people that have gone a 20+ when there were over 40 that were under 20 on the "uncut" list...

If a swimmer makes an "A" cut in one event and "B" cuts in their other events, then the swimmer is allowed to swim their "B" events, if they want too.

ande
March 15th, 2011, 11:26 AM
Actually if a swimmer gets "invited" in one event and has B cuts in other events then the swimmer may swim those other events. They don't necessarily have to have the A cut, very few swimmers make the A cuts. The NCAA meet allows a certain number of swimmers in the meet (like 270) Many swimmers get IN the meet with relays. If a relay is the only way a swimmer gets in the meet then that swimmer has to swim that relay.
(UT women got DQed on a relay because they didn't swim a swimmer on a particular relay.)

That's also why several conference meets scheduled relays first and why many scheduled the 4 x 200 fr & 4 x 50 medley relays on Wednesday.
The meets used to just take place on Thu, Fri, & Sat.


If a swimmer makes an "A" cut in one event and "B" cuts in their other events, then the swimmer is allowed to swim their "B" events, if they want too.

tjburk
March 15th, 2011, 02:12 PM
Just doesn't seem to make sense not to have the fastest swimmers swimming in each event. IMHO...

Doing a little looking...the guy that is 122nd out of 124 in the 50 FR (uncut sheet) is swimming and the guy that is 25th in the country is not. If you cut the list off at 64, like they did in the final list, 16 of the top 64 50 FR swimmers will not be swimming the 50 this year...

ande
March 15th, 2011, 03:20 PM
Yep it's not fair, the whole challenge is to get IN the meet and it works according to a complicated formula.
only so many swimmers are allowed in, think it's 270.

They start with the top seed the 4 x 50 relay.
Those 4 swimmers are in the meet.

Then the top seed in the 500 fr
That swimmer is in the meet.

Then 200 IM

then 50 fr

If someone is already in the meet they skip them for the sake of counting

and they keep going till they hit that number of swimmers and divers of in the meet.
all described in the
NCAA's 2011 DIVISION I MEN’S & WOMEN’S SWIMMING & DIVING CHAMPIONSHIPS HANDBOOK (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/swimming_diving/2011/11_1_swimming.pdf)


"Selections" on page 21 reads:
Number of Participants. The number of participants in the 2011 Division I
championships cannot exceed the following limits: Men—270 participants; and
women—322 participants. All swimmers and divers that are invited to the meet will
be counted toward the total number of participants allowed. If an invited athlete does
not swim or dive in the championships, then the participation cap will not be met thus
precluding an opportunity from another student-athlete. It is imperative that coaches
notify the NCAA of any circumstances that arise inhibiting an athlete from competing.
In these circumstances the committee will make every effort to invite an alternate to the
meet to maintain the participation cap. {Please note: relay only athletes that are selected
to the meet count towards the participation cap, therefore those athletes must swim on
the selected relay or the entire relay becomes ineligible to compete in that event.}

Selection of Participants:

Step 1: A total of 35 divers for men and 41 divers for women will be entered in to the
championships.

Step 2: All individual swimmers and all relays that have achieved “A’’ time standards
will be entered in the meet.

Step 3: All events will be filled, one entry time per event, until each event has the same
number of competitors up to 16 places. Only 16 relays will be selected during
this process. Teams will still have the opportunity to submit optional entry
relays, but 16 will remain the cap on selected relay marks, unless more than
16 relay teams have met the “A” standard. Any events that already exceed this
number of places due to “A” qualifiers will not receive additional entrants at
this time.

Step 4: One entry will be added to each individual swimming event in event order. No
entrants will be added to an event that exceeds this number of places because
of “A” qualifiers until all individual events even out. This process will
be repeated as long as each individual event in the entire order of events can
receive an additional entry and the number of total competitors will remain
below the cap (270 for the men’s meet and 322 for the women’s meet).

Step 5: At some point, the addition of one competitor per event to the entire order of
individual events will put the field over the total number of competitors cap. At
this point, the remaining spaces will be allocated by comparing each events
percentage (Division I championships record time for that event divided by
entry time). The competitor who has the highest percentage (closest to the
record) will be taken first.

Step 6: If we are in compliance with the formula below (we are into the listed individual
row or greater) then go on to Step 7. If we are not in compliance with the
formula, then subtract 1 relay (used in Step 3) and redo the entire process.
We will not accept less than 12 relays for the men’s meet or 13 relays for the
women’s meet.

Men
16 relays - 26 individual rows
15 relays - 24 individual rows
14 relays - 22 individual rows
13 relays - 20 individual rows
12 relays - guaranteed

Women
16 relays - 32 individual rows
15 relays - 30 individual rows
14 relays - 28 individual rows
13 relays - guaranteed

Step 7: Enter optional entries for those individuals who are invited to the meet.

Step 8 An alternate list of qualifiers will be created by individual event row. This list
will be in row order and then by percentages (calculated in Step 5) within each
row. This list will be used in case a swimmer who has been invited to the
championships has become ineligible or unavailable.

Zone Diving Selections.
Each zone will receive a minimum of four spots for men
and women. The guaranteed spots will fill 20 of the 35 diving spots for men and 20 of
41 spots for women.
To complete the diving field (15 spots for men and 21 spots for women), the results
from the previous year’s national championships will be used. A place system will be
used to determine the allocations going to each zone for next year’s meet.
The allocations for the 2011 men’s championships are: Zone A— 4; Zone B—9;
Zone C*— 7; Zone D— 7; and Zone E*—8. The allocations for the 2011 women’s
championships are: Zone A—5; Zone B— 9; Zone C— 10; Zone D— 11; and Zone
E—6. [*Please note: The men’s allocations previously listed in this handbook for
Zones C and E were incorrect and have been updated. The allocations listed now are
correct.]


Back when I swam at Texas, in 1985, if you made the cut you were in the meet but each team had to have 18 or fewer swimmers. (divers count as half) so our NCAA team had 17 swimmers and 2 divers.

There weren't B cuts or the 4 x 50 fr & IM relays.

in 1985 I made the Div 1 NCAA cut but we had too many swimmers make it, so I wasn't able to compete for Texas at NCAAs which were at our pool. That taught me, if you want something, you have to be the clear choice.

Ande



Just doesn't seem to make sense not to have the fastest swimmers swimming in each event. IMHO...

Doing a little looking...the guy that is 122nd out of 124 in the 50 FR (uncut sheet) is swimming and the guy that is 25th in the country is not. If you cut the list off at 64, like they did in the final list, 16 of the top 64 50 FR swimmers will not be swimming the 50 this year...

tjburk
March 15th, 2011, 03:43 PM
I'm not so much looking for fair...just hate to see 25% of the top swimmers not swim a event...specially the 50 where the top times are separated by hundredths of a second.

The 22nd seed is a 19.69...the invite list starts from there...if you take the top 64, the 64th seed would be 19.98. As it sits the 64th seed is 20.30.

Just don't make no sense to me...mainly griping because a young man I helped coach in high school sits at #40...

That Guy
March 17th, 2011, 12:55 PM
Women's D1 Live Results (http://www.star-meets.org/results/NCAA/2011%20Women/index.htm)

Warren
March 17th, 2011, 06:04 PM
Is this going to be streamed live anywhere?

That Guy
March 17th, 2011, 07:03 PM
Is this going to be streamed live anywhere?

I can't find anything for tonight's finals, or any of the prelims, but it looks like ESPN3 is streaming both Friday and Saturday's finals. Found that on http://www.ncaa.com/sports/swimming-women/d1 (Scroll down and look under "Championship Central") Also confimed it on espn3.com, click "Upcoming."

That Guy
March 18th, 2011, 12:31 AM
Very impressive breaststroke split by Tyler. The NCAA record of 58.06 and the American/US Open record of 57.77 could go down tomorrow.

6 Minnesota 'A' 3:33.28 3:32.67 B 26
1) Whitehead, Hannah JR 2) Tyler, Jillian SR
3) Jamison, Kaylee SR 4) Eggers, Alison SR
25.86 53.64 (53.64)
1:20.30 (26.66) 1:50.73 (57.09)
2:14.56 (23.83) 2:42.94 (52.21)
3:06.39 (23.45) 3:32.67 (49.73)

gdanner
March 18th, 2011, 09:44 AM
I'm not so much looking for fair...just hate to see 25% of the top swimmers not swim a event...specially the 50 where the top times are separated by hundredths of a second.


I suspect it is related to money (isn't everything?). Does the school or NCAA foot the bill for travel/accommodations if you qualify for the meet? If the NCAA reimburses the host school for the cost of running the championships that could play a factor as well. In these instances, they're obviously going to want fewer athletes to attend the meet.

On another note, I think it's ridiculous that significantly more girls are allowed at their meet. But this is common across the board at high level meets. Interestingly enough, USA-S nationals sometimes allows qualifiers to swim bonus events as well, when they might otherwise not be the next fastest person.

knelson
March 18th, 2011, 10:27 AM
Very impressive breaststroke split by Tyler. The NCAA record of 58.06 and the American/US Open record of 57.77 could go down tomorrow.

She's Canadian so it would just be the US Open record.

havepoolwillswim
March 18th, 2011, 06:40 PM
The women's 100 bk finals will be close- prelims 2-8 are all within .4 of one another!

Rich Abrahams
March 18th, 2011, 08:17 PM
Live streaming.

http://espn.go.com/espn3/player?id=148470

knelson
March 18th, 2011, 11:40 PM
This is really shaping up to be a great meet! Check out the scores after tonight:

1. Cal Berkeley 295 2. Georgia 274.5
3. Southern Cali 253 4. Stanford 192

jaadams1
March 19th, 2011, 02:16 AM
This is really shaping up to be a great meet! Check out the scores after tonight:

1. Cal Berkeley 295 2. Georgia 274.5
3. Southern Cali 253 4. Stanford 192

Tells you which conference is hot this year!!! Go PAC-10!!

havepoolwillswim
March 19th, 2011, 03:16 AM
The women's 100 bk finals will be close- prelims 2-8 are all within .4 of one another!

Cindy Tran went from #8 in prelims to winning the final.

knelson
March 21st, 2011, 11:51 AM
Tells you which conference is hot this year!!! Go PAC-10!!

Looking at the final results for the top ten teams: 4 were from the Pac-10 (4 of the top 5), 3 were from the SEC, 2 from the Big 12 and 1 from the Big Ten. Considering there are only eight teams competing in the Pac-10 this is pretty impressive.

art_z
March 21st, 2011, 04:15 PM
I wonder if anyone at NCAAs will go faster than Dave Nolan did at PIAA AAA States this past weekend in the 200 IM: 1:41.39
He'd be the top seed!

http://www.piaa.org/assets/web/documents/2011_AAA_Boys_Fri_Finals.htm

his 100 back (45.49) woud get him a 2nd seed.

http://www.piaa.org/assets/web/documents/2011_AAA_Boys_Sat_Finals.htm

2fish&1whale
March 21st, 2011, 04:27 PM
I wonder if anyone at NCAAs will go faster than Dave Nolan did at PIAA AAA States this past weekend in the 200 IM: 1:41.39
He'd be the top seed!

http://www.piaa.org/assets/web/documents/2011_AAA_Boys_Fri_Finals.htm

his 100 back (45.49) woud get him a 2nd seed.

http://www.piaa.org/assets/web/documents/2011_AAA_Boys_Sat_Finals.htm
Can't wait to see what he does next year-he is such a well rounded swimmer and has room to improve.
Question:If he makes the Olympic team this summer-how will that affect his first year at Stanford?

knelson
March 21st, 2011, 04:37 PM
Question:If he makes the Olympic team this summer-how will that affect his first year at Stanford?

Answer: it won't. Trials aren't until late June, 2012.

That Guy
March 21st, 2011, 04:42 PM
Answer: it won't. Trials aren't until late June, 2012.

spoilsport. i was just getting all geared up for a snarky reply of epic awesomeness.

Rich Abrahams
March 21st, 2011, 05:15 PM
I wonder if anyone at NCAAs will go faster than Dave Nolan did at PIAA AAA States this past weekend in the 200 IM: 1:41.39
He'd be the top seed!

http://www.piaa.org/assets/web/documents/2011_AAA_Boys_Fri_Finals.htm

his 100 back (45.49) woud get him a 2nd seed.

http://www.piaa.org/assets/web/documents/2011_AAA_Boys_Sat_Finals.htm

He also lead off the 200 and 400 free relays in 19.58 and 42.39 repectively. The kid who won the 100 free set a state record in 43.2 and then it gets blown away by Nolan in the relay. That's harsh.

2fish&1whale
March 21st, 2011, 05:28 PM
spoilsport. i was just getting all geared up for a snarky reply of epic awesomeness.
don't let that stop you-I can take snarky and now I kinda want to see what qualifies as epic

That Guy
March 21st, 2011, 06:13 PM
don't let that stop you-I can take snarky and now I kinda want to see what qualifies as epic

<sigh> ... fine. here you go (http://tinyurl.com/2g9mqh).

knelson
March 21st, 2011, 06:20 PM
<sigh> ... fine. here you go (http://tinyurl.com/2g9mqh).

I'll raise you this. (http://tinyurl.com/48chl59)

That Guy
March 21st, 2011, 06:27 PM
I'll raise you YouTube - Rebecca Black - Friday (OFFICIAL VIDEO) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD2LRROpph0)

2fish asked for epic, but I'm pretty sure "epic fail" wasn't on the menu. None of us have any reason to click on your link since the forum system resolved your URL right down to the title of the song.

(responding in green for reasons that should be fairly obvious)

Edit: and I'm glad I captured your fail before you edited it :)

knelson
March 21st, 2011, 06:28 PM
I can't get anything by you. I went back and revised it using tinyurl like you did, but you were too quick for me!

And you're right, no one needs to click on my link. That video really doesn't need any more hits.

2fish&1whale
March 21st, 2011, 09:35 PM
I concede....^:bow:^......Can't help being excited for the swimming events next year-so I skipped a year!

That Guy
March 22nd, 2011, 02:28 PM
I can't get anything by you. I went back and revised it using tinyurl like you did, but you were too quick for me!

And you're right, no one needs to click on my link. That video really doesn't need any more hits.

To keep post on topic, here's collegeswimming's preview of day 1 of D1 NCAA's:

http://www.collegeswimming.com/news/2011/mar/21/ncaa-mens-preview-day-one/

knelson
March 22nd, 2011, 02:41 PM
I think Cal will pick up the men's title, too. They've got a good shot at winning four of the five relays, plus they've got Adrian and the top four seeds in the 100 breast! They've got their weak areas, but they will score so many points elsewhere it's not going to matter. It's going to be fun to watch, though, because Texas will rack up lots of points in events where Cal might not score at all. I expect the lead to change hands several times throughout the meet.

ande
March 22nd, 2011, 10:40 PM
here's several albums I shot at the 2011 Women's NCAAs in Austin

Thu Mar 17, 2011 Women's NCAAs Prelims
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3154922&id=7921551
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3154945&id=7921551


Thu Mar 17, 2011 Women's NCAAs Finals
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3154664&id=7921551
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3154901&id=7921551

Fri Mar 18, 2011 Women's NCAAs Prelims
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3154423&id=7921551
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3154467&id=7921551

Fri Mar 18, 2011 Women's NCAAs Finals
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3154389&id=7921551


Sat March 19, 2011 Women's NCAAs Prelims
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3154277&id=7921551


Sat March 19, 2011 Women's NCAAs Finals
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3154247&id=7921551
some of my favorite shots are of the womens 200 Br A Final

That Guy
March 23rd, 2011, 12:55 PM
Looks like the video streaming will be the same deal as last week - Friday and Saturday finals only, on ESPN3. But last Friday they did show the 50 free final from Thursday night; maybe the same will be true this week.

Here's collegeswimming.com's preview of Day 2. They agree with knelson that Cal will not win the 800 free relay.

http://www.collegeswimming.com/news/2011/mar/22/ncaa-mens-preview-day-two/

Frank Thompson
March 23rd, 2011, 05:09 PM
I am in 3 NCAA pools and everyone in all 3 of these pools is picking Cal to win. Are they that good or are other teams not that good this year? This is the first time I can remember this happening. Usually Texas, Stanford, Auburn, and Arizona get picked by someone.

Some observations on the picks:

The following were unanimous picks by everyone in the pools.

Individual Winners:

500 Free- Dwyer

400 IM Dwyer

200 Med Relay Cal

100 Breast Dugonjic

800 Fr Relay GatorNation

100 Free Adrian

The best race of the meet according to the pool will be The Staab/Shields 100 Fly battle came out 8 for Shields and 6 for Staab.

American and NCAA Record threats seem to be in the 1650 Free, 100 Fly, 200 IM, and 200 Free.

Cal could take all 4 relays except the 800 Free Relay and last year they did that but did not win the meet. The only school I remember taking all 5 relays was Stanford in 1992.

Seniors to watch in there final meet will be Adrian, Dyer, and Staab. These 3 swimmers have a chance to win 3 events but I would say two would be a safer bet. Adrian in the 100 Fly, and both Staab and Dyer are long shots to win the 100 Free.

Tom Shield is the SO to watch in the meet and he could win both 100 and 200 Fly. The FR to watch out for is Michigan's Kyle Whitaker seeded 2nd in both IM events.

My picks are:

50 Free and 100 Free - Nathan Adrian

200 Free - Bret Fraser

500 Free and 400 IM - Conor Dyer

100 Fly and 200 IM - Austin Staab

1650 Free - Martin Grodzki

100 Back - Eric Ress

200 Back - Marco Loughran

100 Breast - Damir Dugonjic

200 Breast - Scott Spann

200 Fly - Tom Shields

800 Free Relay - Florida

All Other Relays - Cal

Rich Abrahams
March 23rd, 2011, 05:43 PM
The FR to watch out for is Michigan's Kyle Whitaker seeded 2nd in both IM events.

Frank,
I know you're from Michigan, but another freshman to keep an eye on is Vlad Morozov from USC. I believe he'll give Adrian all he can handle in the 50 and 100 free. He set a new 17-18 age group record at Pac-10's in the 100 @ 41.9 and his 19.06 in the 50 may also be a new age group record.
Rich

knelson
March 23rd, 2011, 05:50 PM
I think diving could be the X factor at the meet. My recollection is last year Texas would not have won the meet without diving. Cal does not have any divers.

Frank Thompson
March 23rd, 2011, 07:44 PM
Frank,
I know you're from Michigan, but another freshman to keep an eye on is Vlad Morozov from USC. I believe he'll give Adrian all he can handle in the 50 and 100 free. He set a new 17-18 age group record at Pac-10's in the 100 @ 41.9 and his 19.06 in the 50 may also be a new age group record.
Rich

You are exactly right. I forgot he was a freshman. He is threat to win 2 events and probably a long shot in the 100 Back.

ande
March 24th, 2011, 11:28 AM
Men's Div 1 NCAAs starts TODAY at NOON Central time!
It's always amazing, exciting and fun. Enjoy!

2011 NCAA Division 1 Men's Swimming and Diving Championships (http://www.ncaa.com/championships/swimming-men/d1)
March 24 - 26, 2011
Minneapolis, Minn
University of Minnessota Aquatic Center

Prelims: Noon
Finals: 7:00

RESULTS & Psych Sheet (http://www.star-meets.org/results/NCAA/2011%20Men/)

WATCH (http://espn.go.com/espn3/index
)

2011 Men's NCAA official psych sheet (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/9b5d6b4c-a0bd-4d00-965c-efbc4c5f7597/DI%20Men%20Official%20Psych%20Sheet%20(after%20mic higan%20scratch).pdf)

Minnesota NCAA site
(http://www.gophersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8400&ATCLID=205070763&KEY=&DB_OEM_ID=8400&DB_LANG=&IN_SUBSCRIBER_CONTENT=
)

Wonder who will wear what?


2011 NCAA Division 1 Women's Swimming and Diving Championships Results (http://www.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/files/complete_results.pdf)

Karen Duggan
March 24th, 2011, 01:40 PM
I was talking to a friend of mine last night who is a CAL swimming alum. He's going to the meet to cheer. He was telling me that if the meet is scored as seeded that CAL would win by 70 pts, diving included.

GO BEARS!
(No, I didn't go there. But I think their coach, and his wife, are amazing coaches, not to mention just nice people = )

pwb
March 24th, 2011, 01:48 PM
It appears to be streaming live here: http://www.gophersports.com/liveEvents/liveEvents.dbml?&SPSID=69594&SPID=3275&DB_OEM_ID=8400

That Guy
March 24th, 2011, 01:55 PM
It appears to be streaming live here: http://www.gophersports.com/liveEvents/liveEvents.dbml?&SPSID=69594&SPID=3275&DB_OEM_ID=8400

I take back all the terrible things I said about you. :applaud:

Karen Duggan
March 24th, 2011, 02:04 PM
I was looking at the results of the prelims for the 200FRelay.
A SO from UNLV took out his first lap in 8.78 only to beaten by Austin Stabb at 8.76.
The reaction times are phenomenal as well. It appears that most of these guys are actually swimming the same speed, it's the start that is making all the difference. Interesting.

BTW, I'm still thinking about breaking the surface at 8 seconds! LOL

knelson
March 24th, 2011, 02:18 PM
The reaction times are phenomenal as well.

Just wait until finals. The reaction times look pretty conservative to me for the most part. 0.3 seconds on a relay start is conservative. No one wants to cut it too close in prelims!

pwb
March 24th, 2011, 02:24 PM
All pre-meet chatter was around Cal, but, dang, Auburn placed 6 guys between A & B finals of the 50!

Event 4 Men 50 Yard Freestyle
================================================== ================
Championship: C 18.47 3/27/2008 Cesar Cielo, Auburn
American: A 18.71 3/26/2009 Nathan Adrian, Cal
U. S. Open: O 18.47 3/27/2008 Cesar Cielo, Auburn/BRA
Pool Record: P 18.74 3/24/2005 Fred Bousquet, Auburn
Name Year School Seed Prelims
================================================== ================
=== Preliminaries ===

1 Adrian, Nathan SR Cal Berkeley 18.91 18.76
9.16 18.76 (9.60)
2 Brown, Adam SR Auburn Universit 19.05 18.91
9.25 18.91 (9.66)
3 Coville, Alex SR Stanford 19.56 19.01
9.13 19.01 (9.88)
4 Morozov, Vlad FR Southern Cali 19.06 19.12
9.26 19.12 (9.86)
5 Feigen, Jimmy JR Texas 19.26 19.13
9.39 19.13 (9.74)
6 Small, Adam JR Arizona 19.32 19.27
9.35 19.27 (9.92)
7 Krug, Karl JR Auburn Universit 19.27 19.31
9.42 19.31 (9.89)
8 Moore, Graeme SR Cal Berkeley 19.55 19.36
9.29 19.36 (10.07)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
9 Norys, Kohlton SR Auburn Universit 19.78 19.38
9.46 19.38 (9.92)
10 Richards, Michael SR Minnesota 19.05 19.43
9.43 19.43 (10.00)
11 Daniels, Josh SR Cal Berkeley 19.67 19.45
9.53 19.45 (9.92)
12 Bruck, Eric SO Clemson 19.52 19.47
9.49 19.47 (9.98)
13 Modrov, Drew JR Auburn Universit 19.53 19.48
9.42 19.48 (10.06)
14 Powell, Adam SR Columbia 19.62 19.55
9.45 19.55 (10.10)
15 Chierighini, Marcelo FR Auburn Universit 19.73 19.58
9.66 19.58 (9.92)
16 Manning, Chris FR Auburn Universit 19.78 19.62
9.55 19.62 (10.07)

aquageek
March 24th, 2011, 02:29 PM
Just wait until finals. The reaction times look pretty conservative to me for the most part. 0.3 seconds on a relay start is conservative. No one wants to cut it too close in prelims!

We normally don't attend meets here with RT on the scoreboard but did this past fall at a big university. The best RT we saw among our team was .67 or .68 from our fastest guy. What are good RTs for us oldsters?

Oh, and on topic, Auburn can churn out the speedsters.

ande
March 24th, 2011, 02:38 PM
Auburn placed 6 guys between A & B finals of the 50!
wow impressive sprint program


Event 4 Men 50 Yard Freestyle
================================================== ================
Championship: C 18.47 3/27/2008 Cesar Cielo, Auburn
American: A 18.71 3/26/2009 Nathan Adrian, Cal
U. S. Open: O 18.47 3/27/2008 Cesar Cielo, Auburn/BRA
Pool Record: P 18.74 3/24/2005 Fred Bousquet, Auburn
Name Year School Seed Prelims
================================================== ================
=== Preliminaries ===

1 Adrian, Nathan SR Cal Berkeley 18.91 18.76
9.16 18.76 (9.60)
2 Brown, Adam SR Auburn Universit 19.05 18.91
9.25 18.91 (9.66)
3 Coville, Alex SR Stanford 19.56 19.01
9.13 19.01 (9.88)
4 Morozov, Vlad FR Southern Cali 19.06 19.12
9.26 19.12 (9.86)
5 Feigen, Jimmy JR Texas 19.26 19.13
9.39 19.13 (9.74)
6 Small, Adam JR Arizona 19.32 19.27
9.35 19.27 (9.92)
7 Krug, Karl JR Auburn Universit 19.27 19.31
9.42 19.31 (9.89)
8 Moore, Graeme SR Cal Berkeley 19.55 19.36
9.29 19.36 (10.07)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
9 Norys, Kohlton SR Auburn Universit 19.78 19.38
9.46 19.38 (9.92)
10 Richards, Michael SR Minnesota 19.05 19.43
9.43 19.43 (10.00)
11 Daniels, Josh SR Cal Berkeley 19.67 19.45
9.53 19.45 (9.92)
12 Bruck, Eric SO Clemson 19.52 19.47
9.49 19.47 (9.98)
13 Modrov, Drew JR Auburn Universit 19.53 19.48
9.42 19.48 (10.06)
14 Powell, Adam SR Columbia 19.62 19.55
9.45 19.55 (10.10)
15 Chierighini, Marcelo FR Auburn Universit 19.73 19.58
9.66 19.58 (9.92)
16 Manning, Chris FR Auburn Universit 19.78 19.62
9.55 19.62 (10.07)[/QUOTE]

Jazz Hands
March 24th, 2011, 02:41 PM
Brett Hawke is a great coach, but all of those guys were extremely fast before they even got to Auburn. Recruiting power.

knelson
March 24th, 2011, 03:35 PM
The best RT we saw among our team was .67 or .68 from our fastest guy. What are good RTs for us oldsters?

Anything under 0.7 is blazing. I think anything under 0.8 is "good," anything over 0.9 is slowish.

But if you've ever practiced relay starts you'll find out with a little practice it's easy to get under 0.3 consistently. That's why relay starts knock off at least 0.5 seconds from your total time. You've also got the advantage that you're already in motion so it's probably worth a little more even.

fmracing
March 24th, 2011, 04:02 PM
Anything under 0.7 is blazing. I think anything under 0.8 is "good," anything over 0.9 is slowish.

But if you've ever practiced relay starts you'll find out with a little practice it's easy to get under 0.3 consistently. That's why relay starts knock off at least 0.5 seconds from your total time. You've also got the advantage that you're already in motion so it's probably worth a little more even.

How come they're showing relay exchange times on the results but not block times for the flat 50? I'd love to see what kind of block time some of those guys are pulling off.

Frank Thompson
March 24th, 2011, 04:03 PM
Michigan Masters swimmer Scott Tyler's son Alex Tyler, qualified 16th in the 200 IM today. He still has two other events to swim (200 IM and 400 IM). He swims for Northwestern University.

Karen Duggan
March 24th, 2011, 04:07 PM
It appears to be streaming live here: http://www.gophersports.com/liveEvents/liveEvents.dbml?&SPSID=69594&SPID=3275&DB_OEM_ID=8400

Thanks for posting that. I watched most of it. SO much fun!!!

Rich Abrahams
March 24th, 2011, 08:26 PM
Just wait until finals. The reaction times look pretty conservative to me for the most part. 0.3 seconds on a relay start is conservative. No one wants to cut it too close in prelims!

The difference in relay take-off times between Stanford and Cal was .22 to the good for Stanford: more than the margin of victory.

That Guy
March 24th, 2011, 09:06 PM
NATHAN ADRIAN 18.66 AMERICAN RECORD :applaud:

smontanaro
March 24th, 2011, 09:16 PM
So much for needing tech suits...

ande
March 25th, 2011, 10:12 AM
Day 2 of Men's Div 1 NCAAs begins TODAY at NOON Central time!
It's always amazing, exciting and fun. Enjoy!

There were some exceptional swims yesterday and there's likely to be more today.

Here's how the teams ranked at the end of Day one so far.

Men - Team Rankings - Through Event 6

01. Texas 139
02. Stanford 136
03. Cal Berkeley 134
04. Auburn 110.5
05. Arizona 99
06. Virginia 74
07. Florida 70
08. Southern Cali 62
09. Michigan 57
10. Texas A&M 49
11. Ohio St 41
12. Tennessee 40
13. Minnesota 37
14. Georgia 30
15. Unlv 28
16. Arizona State 27
17. Purdue University 20
18. Louisville 19
19. Clemson 16.5
20. Duke 15
21. Missouri 9
22. Alabama 7
23. Brigham Young 5
23. Northwestern 5
25. Florida St 2
25. Unc 2
25. South Carolina 2
28. Columbia 1
28. Indiana 1


2011 NCAA Division 1 Men's Swimming and Diving Championships (http://www.ncaa.com/championships/swimming-men/d1)
March 24 - 26, 2011
Minneapolis, Minn
University of Minnessota Aquatic Center

Prelims: Noon Central Time
Finals: 7:00 Central Time

RESULTS & Psych Sheet (http://www.star-meets.org/results/NCAA/2011%20Men/)

WATCH (http://espn.go.com/espn3/index
)

2011 Men's NCAA official psych sheet (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/9b5d6b4c-a0bd-4d00-965c-efbc4c5f7597/DI%20Men%20Official%20Psych%20Sheet%20(after%20mic higan%20scratch).pdf)

Minnesota NCAA site
(http://www.gophersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8400&ATCLID=205070763&KEY=&DB_OEM_ID=8400&DB_LANG=&IN_SUBSCRIBER_CONTENT=
)

Wonder who will wear what?


2011 NCAA Division 1 Women's Swimming and Diving Championships Results (http://www.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/files/complete_results.pdf)

Frank Thompson
March 25th, 2011, 11:34 AM
So the biggest surprise last night was the upset of Conor Dwyer and not Dyer that Ande had pointed out to me the other day. What was most surprising is that he went 2 seconds slower than his SEC time and was about what he did at last year's meet. Matt McLean made up for his 2010 mishap and did what I thought he would do last year because I picked him to win the event. Last year he went 4:17.48 and he did not make the finals so this was a great comeback for him.

In the 200 IM a comment was made that if you go out in 46.9 you are going to win a lot of 200 IM's unless you have a weak breast stroke and Austin Staab doesn't. He came back in 29.5/25.0 to take it at 1:41.57 and it has been mentioned that this time was slower than David Nolan's National HS Record time of 1:41.39 and I believe this is the first time that an NCAA Champion has not beaten the best HS time for that year since Jeff Kostoff 1983 500 Free time of 4:16.39 and the NCAA Champion that year, George DiCarlo went 4:16.93.

Jeff Kostoff also broke the American Record with that swim by .01 and he was the last male swimmer to accomplish this as a HS swimmer. I believe Kate Ziegler was the last female swimmer to do this in this same event and her time would have won the NCAA's.

The 50 Free was identical to last year if you take out the graduated Josh Schneider because the 2010 2nd, 3rd, and 4th swimmers finished 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Adrian's 18.66 breaks his American Record of 18.71 and that time was with a tech suit.

The 200 Free Relay was a surprise and Cal might be the only team with 4 guys under 19 and they got 2nd but they made up for it in the 400 Medley Relay.

havepoolwillswim
March 25th, 2011, 01:22 PM
I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around Dugonjic's 23.2 split 50 breast in the medley relay prelims. Approaching a sub-23 50 breast??

That Guy
March 25th, 2011, 01:37 PM
I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around Dugonjic's 23.2 split 50 breast in the medley relay prelims. Approaching a sub-23 50 breast??

Dugonjic did a sub-23 50 breast back in 2009

U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Men's Pac 10's Underway

That Guy
March 25th, 2011, 01:53 PM
So the biggest surprise last night was the upset of Conor Dwyer and not Dyer that Ande had pointed out to me the other day. What was most surprising is that he went 2 seconds slower than his SEC time and was about what he did at last year's meet.

Dwyer finished 9th in the 400 IM this morning (he went 3:45 with a seed time of 3:37) so he missed the finals unless someone scratches. I wonder if he's sick, or past his taper, or something else.

Charge
March 25th, 2011, 03:46 PM
Cal killed it today, barring a relay mishap tonight they could be sitting on a 60-80point lead after today and have the thing wrapped up.

Frank Thompson
March 25th, 2011, 03:50 PM
Dwyer finished 9th in the 400 IM this morning (he went 3:45 with a seed time of 3:37) so he missed the finals unless someone scratches. I wonder if he's sick, or past his taper, or something else.

Rumor has it that he is sick. Scott Tyler, who is at the meet said that he didn't look well in the 500 Free and he swam the 100 Breast twice yesterday besides doing the 500 twice. I think a lot of people expected him to be close or a little slower than 3:37.75 but in no way did they expect him to swim 3:45.29 and not even make the top 8. It will be interesting if he gets mad and goes out and swims 3:40 or under in the consolations but odds are he won't. See if he can hold 9th place.

The other disappointment was Austin Suroff in the 400 IM at 3:46.47. Last year he went 3:43.32 and that time would have seeded him 3rd today and he did that last year the day after he won the 200 IM. His 1:45.30 at the 200 mark was only 1.5 seconds off of what Michael Phelps was when he did the time of 3:36.26 and he just absolutely died on his last 100 Free with a split time of 56.75.

knelson
March 25th, 2011, 04:06 PM
he just absolutely died on his last 100 Free with a split time of 56.75.

Ouch.

Dwyer failing to make A finals is a huge upset. I think some people expected him to challenge the AR in this event.

That Guy
March 25th, 2011, 08:34 PM
Ouch.

Dwyer failing to make A finals is a huge upset. I think some people expected him to challenge the AR in this event.

I'm watching the finals on ESPN3 and Rowdy just confirmed that Dwyer is sick. Dwyer still managed to win the consol with a 3:42.

tjrpatt
March 25th, 2011, 09:11 PM
OMG! Matt Biondi looks like a different person now!

tjrpatt
March 25th, 2011, 09:30 PM
"Breaststroke Coaches". Geesh, I guess that Cal Berkeley has some budget for the swim team. On my college team, we had a few coaches with an all around approach.

Lump
March 25th, 2011, 09:36 PM
OMG! Matt Biondi looks like a different person now!

Gray, that's about it. I bet he could get on the blocks now and rock under a :45 in the 100 free.

JimRude
March 25th, 2011, 09:49 PM
"Breaststroke Coaches". Geesh, I guess that Cal Berkeley has some budget for the swim team. On my college team, we had a few coaches with an all around approach.

All unpaid, volunteer assistant coaches...

Spock
March 25th, 2011, 11:01 PM
"Breaststroke Coaches". Geesh, I guess that Cal Berkeley has some budget for the swim team.

Speaking as a UC faculty (and former Cal faculty) there is no plethora of money anywhere in the UC ... UC Irvine and Davis cut men's swimming last year to go along with UCLA. Berkeley does not have great facilities or huge amounts of capital. Stanford? That's another story.

Cal just has a great team, devoted swimmers, and devoted coaches.

tjrpatt
March 25th, 2011, 11:12 PM
Speaking as a UC faculty (and former Cal faculty) there is no plethora of money anywhere in the UC ... UC Irvine and Davis cut men's swimming last year to go along with UCLA. Berkeley does not have great facilities or huge amounts of capital. Stanford? That's another story.

Cal just has a great team, devoted swimmers, and devoted coaches.

What you guys in the West call "does not have great facilities", the Northeast would call pretty sweet. We can't get LCM pools with additional warmup space built around here.

Didn't Cal Berkeley purchase a Myrtha Pool and apparently someone jack some of the parts? Or, was it another program that purchased it. I was pretty stunned that someone would actually steal Myrtha Pool parts.

Karen Duggan
March 25th, 2011, 11:33 PM
We have master's meets at CAL every year. It is not a great pool by any stretch of the imagination. Truly.
Now Stanford, Stanford has the luxury accommodations!

Karen Duggan
March 25th, 2011, 11:36 PM
Didn't Cal Berkeley purchase a Myrtha Pool and apparently someone jack some of the parts? Or, was it another program that purchased it. I was pretty stunned that someone would actually steal Myrtha Pool parts.

If CAL had bought a Myrtha pool, I'd be curious to know where they'd put it? That campus is jam-packed.

knelson
March 26th, 2011, 02:10 AM
If CAL had bought a Myrtha pool, I'd be curious to know where they'd put it? That campus is jam-packed.

Maybe they could float it out in the bay. :)

Stanford is pretty posh. It's hard to imagine getting to go on a recruiting trip there and NOT signing. I've never been to Cal's campus so I can't comment there.

As for the meet, I guess a miracle could happen, but I'd say the fat lady has pretty much sung. The battle now is for second.

Lump
March 26th, 2011, 08:38 PM
Great swimming tonight and SUPER tight races. Four guys in the mile within a few second of each other (and a 2nd place tie!) and Texas getting a HUGE win there. 200 Back a two horse race won by AZ by .12

no200fly
March 26th, 2011, 08:57 PM
looks like the Longhorns came to swim

Lump
March 26th, 2011, 09:04 PM
looks like the Longhorns came to swim

1, 2, 6 in the breast. But no flyers. A platform diver......gonna come down to the last relay most likely!!:applaud:

SO glad to see Mark Dylla win the 200 Fly (for real this time)!!

no200fly
March 26th, 2011, 09:28 PM
SO glad to see Mark Dylla win the 200 Fly (for real this time)!!
What a great swim. I especially liked his comment that when he turned on the last 25 he was thinking "game over."

Karen Duggan
March 26th, 2011, 11:18 PM
WAY TO GO BEARS! YOU WERE ABSOLUTELY AMAZING. CONGRATULATIONS TO DAVE DURDEN ON BEING A PHENOMENAL COACH, AND TO HIS WIFE FOR HER ENTHUSIASM AND SUPPORT! WELL DONE
:applaud:
:bliss:
:cheerleader:
:chug:

jonblank
March 26th, 2011, 11:30 PM
I suppose you're a Cal fan, eh Karen?

Karen Duggan
March 27th, 2011, 12:01 AM
Just since I met the Durdens. :D
I went to Chico State.
(CAL is actually a wee bit too liberal for me! LOL)

I am just so incredibly impressed with Dave's coaching. He is so talented. These coaches don't come along very often. And his wife has helped me, and my daughter, with our swimming too. They are both phenomenal.

knelson
March 27th, 2011, 12:18 AM
I just looked at the results. When I saw Texas actually took the lead at one point my jaw dropped. Incredible effort by them to make it a dogfight till the end, but congrats to Cal for winning both the women's and men's championship!

Allen Stark
March 27th, 2011, 12:51 AM
I couldn't get the streaming to work.Are the swims going to be broadcast,when and where?

pwb
March 27th, 2011, 02:01 AM
Congrats to Cal. It takes some awesome, awesome swimming by a whole team of guys to win this thing without divers.

I loved the streaming video, if for no other reason than I finally got to watch a whole 1650 'televised' from start to finish! That was a great race race to watch. Props to McBroom for dropping 18 seconds off his personal best and bringing home Texas' first ever 1650 NCAA title. Sweet.

ande
March 27th, 2011, 11:26 AM
he's McZoom

tough meet, the horns really rallied on Sunday, we had several key swimmers who weren't "on." Several didn't swim as fast as they did in conference unshaved.



I loved the streaming video, if for no other reason than I finally got to watch a whole 1650 'televised' from start to finish! That was a great race race to watch. Props to McBroom for dropping 18 seconds off his personal best and bringing home Texas' first ever 1650 NCAA title. Sweet.

tjrpatt
March 27th, 2011, 01:27 PM
Congrats to Cal. It takes some awesome, awesome swimming by a whole team of guys to win this thing without divers.

I loved the streaming video, if for no other reason than I finally got to watch a whole 1650 'televised' from start to finish! That was a great race race to watch. Props to McBroom for dropping 18 seconds off his personal best and bringing home Texas' first ever 1650 NCAA title. Sweet.

long swims are pretty compelling to watch. I loved that there was a tie for 2nd. Chad La Tourette really fought to keep that second place position.

It just didn't look well when you see the first 400, commerical break, and then last 200. NBC really needs to show the whole 1500 and women's 800 next year. Do they any commerical breaks or summarized coverage of the 1500 in Australia?

pwb
March 27th, 2011, 01:53 PM
long swims are pretty compelling to watch. I loved that there was a tie for 2nd. Chad La Tourette really fought to keep that second place position.

It just didn't look well when you see the first 400, commerical break, and then last 200. NBC really needs to show the whole 1500 and women's 800 next year. Do they any commerical breaks or summarized coverage of the 1500 in Australia?I don't know about Australia, but I really hope NBC will show the complete 800 and 1500. After all, they televise hours of golf and baseball and other far longer, far less 'action' oriented sporting events. I am very biased and I do also enjoy watching the sprints, but there's some much more strategy. To enjoy in the distance races.

Frank Thompson
March 27th, 2011, 03:04 PM
It just didn't look well when you see the first 400, commerical break, and then last 200. NBC really needs to show the whole 1500 and women's 800 next year. Do they any commerical breaks or summarized coverage of the 1500 in Australia?[/QUOTE]

I have VHS tapes of the full 800 and 1500 Free from trades I made over the years with others that have taped Australian swims on TV. They almost always show the both events at Commonwealth Games, World Championships, and Olympics. CBC TV in Canada will show both events as well if they have a swimmer in the final and in 2005 and 2007 World Championships they showed the whole event because they had Brittany Reimer and Ryan Cochrane.

I have only seen both the 800 Free and 1500 Free shown in its entirety once on USA TV and that was in 1992 when NBC had a special package that you could buy with your cable service that would show all Olympic events live without commercial interruption. I remember seeing both Janet Evans and Kieren Perkins swims live on TV in its entirety.

knelson
March 27th, 2011, 03:57 PM
I can pretty well assure you we won't get to see either the 800 or 1500 in it's entirety. Hell, NBC probably would like to have a commercial break during the 400s if they could manage to fit them in.

That Guy
March 27th, 2011, 04:25 PM
I can pretty well assure you we won't get to see either the 800 or 1500 in it's entirety. Hell, NBC probably would like to have a commercial break during the 400s if they could manage to fit them in.

During the 2008 Olympic Trials, the streaming coverage went to a black screen in place of each commercial break. During the second "break" in the 1500, the piano dropped on Erik Vendt. When the coverage resumed, all of a sudden Vendt was well behind the leaders instead of right with them.

NBC would rather show us NOTHING than have us not see a commercial break :bitching:

pwb
March 27th, 2011, 08:45 PM
CBC TV in Canada will show both events as well if they have a swimmer in the final and in 2005 and 2007 World Championships they showed the whole event because they had Brittany Reimer and Ryan Cochrane.I was fortunately in Canada in 2005 on vacation and caught GREAT coverage of World Championships, no doubt bolstered by them hosting the event. I might have to try streaming their coverage again for London since Cochrane is bound to be a favorite.

Frank Thompson
March 28th, 2011, 01:16 PM
looks like the Longhorns came to swim

Last year Texas beat Cal by 24.5 points and this year Cal beat Texas by 22.5 points. Not to be a Monday morning Quarterback, but as good as Texas swam in all there events, there is one event that tipped the Championship in Cal's favor.

The 800 Free Relay, which has always been a strength for Texas and never for Cal since the days of Matt Biondi. Cal scored 28 points in that event getting 5th to Texas getting 9th scoring 18 points and that is a 20 point swing. Going into the meet, Texas was ranked 6th and Cal was ranked 9th giving Texas an 8 point advantage.

The surprise were the swimmers for Texas seed times from the last year should have had them easily in the top 3. I thought they would be fighting for 2nd with Virginia behind Florida. With Dyer being sick, this opened up this relay to all the teams.

Last year Texas went a 6:12.77 to 6:23.77 this year and they had two of the same guys plus Dax Hill who went a faster time in the 200 Free individual event than both David Walters and Ricky Berens and the relay should have easily went under 6:18.00

The splits last year vs this year were: Scott Jostes 1:33.25 to his split this year of 1:36.08, Neil Caskey went a 1:33.86 to his split this year of 1:36.61.

David Walters went a 1:32.76 and Ricky Berens went 1:32.90 for the 2010 Relay. Freshmen Woody Joy went 1:35.75 so you would expect the relay to be 2 seconds slower there. The big surprise is Dax Hill who was 2nd in the individual event with a 1:32.64 went 1:35.33 split anchoring the relay.

The cumulative effect of was 11 seconds slower than 2010 and 13.62 seconds slower than 2009. This is only the 2nd time in 24 years that Texas has not made the top 8 in this event. They have won this event 11 times in the last 24 years, been 2nd 5 of 24 years, and 3rd and 4th two times each in those 24 years.

Cal almost lost 11 points in the 100 Free. Nathan Adrian was less than one tenth of second from getting 9th in the prelims and he though he won if Scott Robinson goes one tenth faster he is looking at getting 9th with a 41.10 and getting 9 points instead of the 20 points for winning.

In the NCAA Division 1 history, I believe there has been two swimmers that have had the faster time in the consolation finals than swimmers in the finals.

Karen Duggan
March 28th, 2011, 01:47 PM
Did they have "the suits" last year? I can't remember.

Frank Thompson
March 28th, 2011, 01:49 PM
Did they have "the suits" last year? I can't remember.

No, they did not have tech suits in 2010. They did have them in 2009.

ElaineK
March 28th, 2011, 04:04 PM
No, they did not have tech suits in 2010. They did have them in 2009.

Frank, I'm going to :hijack:for a moment to say I enjoyed the write-up about you in Swimmer Magazine! :applaud:

Frank Thompson
March 28th, 2011, 04:06 PM
Thank You. Look forward to meeting you in Mesa at Nationals.

ElaineK
March 28th, 2011, 04:09 PM
Thank You. Look forward to meeting you in Mesa at Nationals.

You, too! Thanks! :)

lefty
March 29th, 2011, 11:40 AM
In the NCAA Division 1 history, I believe there has been two swimmers that have had the faster time in the consolation finals than swimmers in the finals.

Frank I thought the same thing about the 800 free relay. Texas didn't swim well there and it could have made all the difference. Even Hill's anchor leg, if he just split a 1:33, would have moved Texas up to 6th.

Regarding your question: I remember a women did it in the 500 maybe 2003? Perhaps from Arizona? I think she was a freshman?

Frank Thompson
March 29th, 2011, 01:13 PM
Frank I thought the same thing about the 800 free relay. Texas didn't swim well there and it could have made all the difference. Even Hill's anchor leg, if he just split a 1:33, would have moved Texas up to 6th.

Regarding your question: I remember a women did it in the 500 maybe 2003? Perhaps from Arizona? I think she was a freshman?

The one event you would think this would happen in is the 50 Free because that event seems to have the closest races from 1st to 8th. With that said, in 1978 this happened in the 50 Free. In those days you had to place top 6 to qualify to make the finals. Places 7th through 12th would be the consolation finals.

Scott Findorff from USC qualified 7th in 1978 in the 50 Free and in the final was the only swimmer to go under 20 seconds and won the event at 19.94 for a pool record at Long Beach and Andy Coan of Tennesse won the event in the final at :20.29.

The only other swimmer I can think of that also accomplished this at the NCAA Div 1 meet was Chris Kemp, a JR from Texas, in 2002 in the 200 Free. He qualified 9th and in the final swam a 1:34.41 to the winning time of 1:34.67 by Stephen Sioui, a FR from Florida and his time was also a pool record at Georgia.

I am sure there are others out there but it does not happen ofter especially with the 8 person field as opposed to the 6 person field.

Rich Abrahams
March 29th, 2011, 05:28 PM
The one event you would think this would happen in is the 50 Free because that event seems to have the closest races from 1st to 8th. With that said, in 1978 this happened in the 50 Free. In those days you had to place top 6 to qualify to make the finals. Places 7th through 12th would be the consolation finals.

Scott Findorff from USC qualified 7th in 1978 in the 50 Free and in the final was the only swimmer to go under 20 seconds and won the event at 19.94 for a pool record at Long Beach and Andy Coan of Tennesse won the event in the final at :20.29.

The only other swimmer I can think of that also accomplished this at the NCAA Div 1 meet was Chris Kemp, a JR from Texas, in 2002 in the 200 Free. He qualified 9th and in the final swam a 1:34.41 to the winning time of 1:34.67 by Stephen Sioui, a FR from Florida and his time was also a pool record at Georgia.

I am sure there are others out there but it does not happen ofter especially with the 8 person field as opposed to the 6 person field.

Frank,
I don't have access to the ncaa archives, but I believe that the 1966 ncaa's at Air Force was the first time they had consol finals. I also remember that the winner of consols in the 50 free had the fastest time. Someone I had never heard of before. Interestingly, a high shool friend from Florida and I were tied for the number one seed going into the meet. He sprained his ankle messing around in his fraternity house a week before the meet and was on crutches. I had just gotten out of the infirmary after a 2 week bout with pneumonia. If memory serves, I lost in a swim off for consols and he didn't make it that far. Maybe my masters "career" could be catagorized as unfinished business.

Rich

Frank Thompson
March 29th, 2011, 09:05 PM
Frank,
I don't have access to the ncaa archives, but I believe that the 1966 ncaa's at Air Force was the first time they had consol finals. I also remember that the winner of consols in the 50 free had the fastest time. Someone I had never heard of before. Interestingly, a high shool friend from Florida and I were tied for the number one seed going into the meet. He sprained his ankle messing around in his fraternity house a week before the meet and was on crutches. I had just gotten out of the infirmary after a 2 week bout with pneumonia. If memory serves, I lost in a swim off for consols and he didn't make it that far. Maybe my masters "career" could be catagorized as unfinished business.

Rich

Rich:

You are correct that 1966 was the first time consolation finals for the next 6 places were added to the NCAA Championship. And you are also correct that the 7th place swimmer beat the time of the NCAA Champion winner and this is the first time this has ever happened in NCAA history. The swimmer that won was named James "Sandy" Van Kennen and his time was :21. 39 and the year before this swimmer won the College Division 50 Free which was like what Divison II is today.

The 7th place swimmer was named Robert Graham from Texas Tech and he swam a :21.37 to beat the NCAA Champion. He qualified in 12th place at 21.8 and had to have a swim off with you to get that spot. I think the guy you are referring to from Florida was named Ed T. Dioguardi because in the 1965 NCAA meet he swam a time of :21.4 in prelims and that was the same time that you had in the finals when you got 2nd place to Steve Clark. He did a :21.7 to finish 5th in 1965 and he did :22.0 and finished 21st in 1966 so you remember well.

I looked this up because I have this info so I don't want anybody to think that I would remember this. Hugh Roddin used to swim with one of the fastest 50 guys of this period named Phil Denkevitz at Maryland. He was super fast for a 50 and could hold his own in a 100 but could absolutely not swim a decent Long Course Meters swim in sprint free. Perhaps you remember him.

jaegermeister
March 29th, 2011, 10:00 PM
Anyone know where or if there are videos are posted of the meet? I'm particularly interested in the 1650 and 200 fly finals. Great racing!

Frank Thompson
March 30th, 2011, 08:43 AM
You can go over to ESPN 3 right now and scroll to the sport of swimming and the menu will you show you the NCAA Championships presented by Enterprise Rent-A-Car. You will see both the 1650 Free and 200 Fly and any other events you want. The 1650 Free is shown in its entirety and you can see the swimming and hear the announcer call out the splits and talking about the different strategies. Grodzki and LaTourettee were under 7:15 to set a blistering pace at the half way point and it was a classic with 4 swimmers battling.

Grodzki, LaTourettee, McLean, and the eventual winner McBroom. McBroom did not take the lead until the 1200 mark and they pointed out that he used to swim for Minnesota and transferred to Texas so he had a kind of a home pool advantage.

ande
March 30th, 2011, 12:17 PM
The NCAAs will show on ESPN on:

Friday, Mar. 25
07:45 PM (eastern)
SWIMMING NCAA NCAA Men's Swimming & Diving Championship presented by Enterprise Rent-A-Car

Saturday, Mar. 26
07:45 PM (eastern)
SWIMMING NCAA NCAA Men's Swimming & Diving Championship presented by Enterprise Rent-A-Car


Catch all of the action from the Aquatic Center at the University of Minnesota.
Watch Replay (http://espn.go.com/espn3/index/_/sport/swimming#)


2011 Men's Div 1 NCAAs

2011 NCAA Division 1 Men's Swimming and Diving Championships (http://www.ncaa.com/championships/swimming-men/d1)
March 24 - 26, 2011
Minneapolis, Minn
University of Minnessota Aquatic Center

RESULTS (http://www.star-meets.org/results/NCAA/2011%20Men/)

WATCH (http://espn.go.com/espn3/index)

2011 Men's NCAA official psych sheet (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/9b5d6b4c-a0bd-4d00-965c-efbc4c5f7597/DI%20Men%20Official%20Psych%20Sheet%20(after%20mic higan%20scratch).pdf)

Minnesota NCAA site
(http://www.gophersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8400&ATCLID=205070763&KEY=&DB_OEM_ID=8400&DB_LANG=&IN_SUBSCRIBER_CONTENT=
)

Wonder who will wear what?


Women's 2011 NCAA's (http://www.ncaa.com/championships/swimming-women/d1)

2011 NCAA Division 1 Women's Swimming and Diving Championships Results (http://www.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/files/complete_results.pdf)

Ande's photos from the 2011 Women's NCAAs in Austin


Archive of Men's & Women's results (http://ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/resources/stats/swimming+and+diving/index.html)

Frank Thompson
April 2nd, 2011, 09:05 AM
Both the NCAA Championship meets will be on ESPN U TV this next week and both times are EST.

Women on 4-05-11 from 1:30 to 3:00 PM. Men on 4-06-11 from 1:30 to 3:00 PM.

Chris Stevenson
April 2nd, 2011, 10:29 AM
You are correct that 1966 was the first time consolation finals for the next 6 places were added to the NCAA Championship....

Skip, are the results from previous NCAA championships available to the public somewhere?

Frank Thompson
April 3rd, 2011, 01:56 PM
Skip, are the results from previous NCAA championships available to the public somewhere?

The only previous NCAA results that I know about online are the ones Ande linked from the NCAA website that go back to 2000. On the USA Swimming site they had the results as far back as the late 1980's and the Swimming World website did to about 7 or 8 years ago. Since both sites have been revamped in the last couple of years I think now you can only go back to 2000.

One place that used to publish all NCAA Championship results, College Conference Meets, High School State Championships, and All American lists for both College Swimming and High School Swimming was the Official Collegiate Scholastic Swimming Guide. They had them for all sports as far back as the 1920's and had them when I was in High School/College and I used to collect them until they stop publishing them.

1982 was the last year that these Scholastic Guides for all sports were published. I have all of the years for the 1960's and 1970's. They used to feature a Swimmer on the cover and there have been USMS Masters swimmers on the cover. The 1973 cover had Jim McConica and the 1977 cover had Jim Montgomery. When they quite publishing those, the only place that I know of that had this information was in the Swimming World magazines. They have all of the Swimming World magazines from 1960 on the website but you have to be a premium member to download them.

I have almost all the NCAA results from the 1980's and 1990's because I saved my Swimming World magazines. I have never been able to find anything online from past meets. The NCAA site just lists the NCAA Champions for the events and the team champions for all of the Divisions.