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want2beafish
March 24th, 2011, 10:22 PM
I'm not a new masters swimmer nor am I new to meets, but am new to the 400 IM. Truthfully, I'm a little concerned about my ability to make it through the event legally (well, I'm really mainly afraid of the 4th 25). I'm scheduled to swim the 400 IM at a meet this weekend (Saturday). There are twenty people entered, it's a 10 lane pool, and as luck would have it I'm seeded 11th. If only one person above me scratches, I'll be in a heat where the fastest person is seeded 1:40 faster than I am, and the slowest person (besides me) is still seeded 40 seconds faster than I am. My seed time is MUCH closer to the people seeded right behind me, and I think I seeded myself as accurately as I could.

So... I am extremely anxious about swimming in this heat, as I was already anxious about swimming the 400 IM. Do I scratch to save myself the humiliation and to save some energy for Sunday's events? Or do I get lapped at least twice by the leaders, once by the next slowest person, and tick everyone off for holding up the meet? I'm already swimming the 1000 earlier in the session, and the 400 IM will be my 4th event of the day. I really have mixed feelings about this.

heidi k
March 24th, 2011, 11:13 PM
In all meets except our state meet, events like the 400IM or 200 fly can have a huge time range within each heat. I don't think you should let that hold you back. My experience has been that I'm always glad after swimming challenging events that I stuck to the plan and swam the race. I approach meets as hard sprint practices. Fast times are nice, but not always possible. Try not to psych yourself out, and I bet you'll do fine. Good luck!

couldbebetterfly
March 24th, 2011, 11:16 PM
Hmmmmmm

I'm the sort of person that thinks if I'm there and entered, I may as well swim the event. If it is the last event you're swimming that day I'd be tempted to swim it, just to see how you do. No expectations as you've already swum a number of events. If it is a truly awful experience, well you don't have to ever swim it again. If you finish legally and in good shape you have a benchmark time and a feel for it.

If 2 people faster than you scratch, then you won't be seeded slowest in the fast heat either. Maybe you can treat it as a "fun" "extra" - kinda hard to think of the 400IM as fun, but hopefully you know what I mean?

Are you able to pull out of it later in the day depending on how you feel, or would you be DQed from Sunday's events?

darrinlajoie
March 24th, 2011, 11:39 PM
It's you against the clock, swim it. Even in heat 2, you can't expect to pace yourself against the next lane over, you are going to have different strengths and weaknesses in the various strokes. Just swim your own race in what ever heat you end up in.

jaadams1
March 24th, 2011, 11:41 PM
Don't scratch!! The 400 IM is the event of champions...even if you come in 10 minutes behind the pack...who cares??!!! Congratulations!!! You completed it!!! In Masters, it doesn't matter how fast you do it, who you beat, or even if you get disqualified in the attempt. Just the fact that you are out there and giving your best is good enough!! Go for it!! :applaud:

orca1946
March 25th, 2011, 12:30 AM
As one of my coaching sayings goes " You - the water - -the clock":applaud:
Forget about being last in the fast heat or first in the last heat or what others might think of you.:blah:
Just go do it & be proud in your attempt of what others will not even try!:bow:

knelson
March 25th, 2011, 12:42 AM
100% agree with what everyone else has said. Just do it! Give it your best shot and don't even consider where the others in the heat are.

Luca
March 25th, 2011, 03:59 AM
Go for it.

Who cares if you are last. It's a starting point, next time you swim the event you'll say "hey look at how much faster I've got."

And what jaadams and orca are saying is also true, you'll be cooler than most just by signing up for the event :agree:

swimmerb212
March 25th, 2011, 05:19 AM
Go for it! As a teammate said to me moments before my very first 400IM last weekend, "there's a lot of ways to DQ in this event."

(BTW for all reading - never say that to anyone before a race, ever.)

But I didn't DQ, and I'm so happy to have that on my list of accomplishments even though the two women next to me took off on the first 25 and I even got lapped by one of them.

Besides, scratches go on your permanent record!

gobears
March 25th, 2011, 07:35 AM
Go for it! First time you swim an event = automatic personal best!!! If you're concerned that some watching will think you're not fast--remember that most watching don't have the guts to enter that event in the first place! It's impressive enough just to swim it.

Karl_S
March 25th, 2011, 08:54 AM
In at least one way this is a huge opportunity not to be missed! Since the 400 IM is the last event on your schedule for the day, it gives you the opportunity to swim the 400 IM without worrying that in doing so you are destroying any hope of swimming well in your other events. I'm looking forward to such an opportunity myself.

Another angle on the matter: You say that you seeded yourself as accurately as you could so it sounds like you really believe that you can swim your seed time or very close to it. You also say that you are seeded 11/25. This means that you are in the top half of the field. It's hard to imagine how that could be embarrasing, or that anyone would perceive you as holding up the meet.

pmccoy
March 25th, 2011, 09:19 AM
I got lapped twice on the first 500 free that I did. Not a big deal really. I did a 400 IM as my last event earlier this year. I didn't want to push hard because I was in a relay right after. My teammates advice: "Just go for a swim". So, I did and I swam it about 15 seconds faster than I thought I would.

Are you sure they will bump you up to the next heat? Seems like it would make more sense to leave a lane empty unless enough people dropped that they could consolidate heats.

want2beafish
March 25th, 2011, 09:21 AM
Thanks to all for your input. I've very much enjoyed reading your comments. It is very much appreciated, and definitely is helping. I'm really keeping my fingers crossed that there are two scratches ahead of me, though (I already know of one), so that I will have some company for the last 50-75 yards. :)

I'm actually seeded 12/20, so not the top half, but a couple of those below me are NTs so I have no idea where they will be. Looking back, that's what I probably should have done. However, the one good thing is that the event is being swum slow to fast, so in the faster heat I will have a little more rest between my 3rd event and the 400 IM.

Maybe I'll just pretend I'm swimming a really long 200 IM... :afraid:

want2beafish
March 25th, 2011, 09:26 AM
I got lapped twice on the first 500 free that I did. Not a big deal really. I did a 400 IM as my last event earlier this year. I didn't want to push hard because I was in a relay right after. My teammates advice: "Just go for a swim". So, I did and I swam it about 15 seconds faster than I thought I would.

Are you sure they will bump you up to the next heat? Seems like it would make more sense to leave a lane empty unless enough people dropped that they could consolidate heats.
Peter, we must have been posting at the same time. "Just go for a swim" is good advice. Also, I did think about asking if they would be able to keep a lane open in the faster heat. I'm torn on that, as if I do swim in the faster heat I will have more rest between my 3rd event and the 400 IM, as it is being swum slow to fast. It might be worth less rest, though, and is worth asking about.

How did you do in the relay? :)

mrubacky
March 25th, 2011, 09:32 AM
I'd would swim the event. I was actually in the same situation back in December. It was the second time I had ever done the 400 IM in a meet. The first time was a disaster since I swam it right after a 500 free. I honestly considered scratching the event, but I talked myself into it. After swimming it I felt great for 1)actually feeling strong at the end and 2) Dropping my time by 15 seconds.

Flash forward to last weekend. I felt much more prepared and ready to swim the 400 IM last Sunday and it was the first time in a meet since December and the confidence in the event helped me swim even faster.

pmccoy
March 25th, 2011, 10:02 AM
Peter, we must have been posting at the same time. "Just go for a swim" is good advice. Also, I did think about asking if they would be able to keep a lane open in the faster heat. I'm torn on that, as if I do swim in the faster heat I will have more rest between my 3rd event and the 400 IM, as it is being swum slow to fast. It might be worth less rest, though, and is worth asking about.

How did you do in the relay? :)
I only mentioned the open lane because that appears to be what they did in Auburn in february. Not sure how other meets are run but on sunday, the last (fastest) heats usually had 2-3 empty lanes.

I swam the breast stroke leg of our relay and did a personal best but not by much. I don't think the 400 hurt me any. Another of my teammates sayings: "400 IM is all about life after fly". Have fun this weekend!

swimshark
March 25th, 2011, 10:10 AM
Go for it! It's a great event to try out at least once and who knows, you might enjoy it. I decided to try it out once and now it's getting me Top 10 standings. And I've had to swim next to people who can beat me and lap me. But it's the clock that matters.

mrubacky
March 25th, 2011, 10:12 AM
That usually done to have enough swimmers in the previous heat. So say there is 10 swimmers and 8 lanes, they will move a few swimmers down to the first heat so that there's 3 or more in each heat.

Swimosaur
March 25th, 2011, 10:22 AM
Swim it!!!

* It's the last event of the day.

* It feels really, really good when it's done.

* Nobody cares how fast you go.

* Everybody cheers when you finish!!

* When you finish, you can pound your chest and yodel like Tarzan!

Strategy -- Fly: To borrow from pwb, "Loaf, loaf loaf, and LOAF HARD". Back: Swim it. Breast: Swim it. Free: swim, build, sprint, sprint. The great thing about the 400 IM is you don't have to swim any of it fast, except maybe the last 50. Otherwise it's just like what you do in workouts every day, with a little less rest between the 100s.

Swim it! You will love this event!

jethro
March 25th, 2011, 11:12 AM
I'm glad this thread was started. I am in the same situation...signed up to do my first-ever 400 IM in a few weeks and ever since have been wondering just how ugly it's going to turn out.

Good thing for me is I set expectations for a new event low and I have always exceeded them, so I think this will turn out well. The comments on this thread only help my motivation too.

kgernert
March 25th, 2011, 11:22 AM
SWIM! Don't forget that (in my experience) competing Masters swimmers are some of the most encouraging and supportive people around - especially if you are nervous about a particular event. When I swam my first ever 100 Fly, there were some teammates who knew how nervous I was and as I swam, they were on both ends of the pool shouting their encouragement! The 400IM is still a "monster" that I am working my way up to - kudos to you for attempting it - that's better than me right now. :blush:

Swim happy and have fun!

The Fortress
March 25th, 2011, 11:34 AM
If you like the event or want to swim it in the future, give it a whirl. If you think scratching makes you mentally week, swim it to erase that feeling.

But just to play devil's advocate ... I frequently scratch one event per meet. Either I've purposefully signed up for an extra event to keep my options open or I just don't want to swim that event that day. If I am not interested in swimming it (for whatever reason -- too tired, don't feel like it, don't need a time, focusing on other events), nothing will compel me to swim it. When people attempt to make me feel guilty, which happens less now, I just ignore it. It's masters -- we can do whatever we want. "Getting your $$$ out of the meet" doesn't move me either and I almost never max out events. A wise swimmer once told me, if you have one really good swim a meet, you've achieved something and it was worth it. So sometimes I narrow my focus rather than broaden it. To each his own!

jaadams1
March 25th, 2011, 12:24 PM
Maybe I'll just pretend I'm swimming a really long 200 IM... :afraid:

The really long 200 IM is what I think of when I do a LCM 400 IM...just like the really long 100 fly is really the 200 LCM fly. :)

ElaineK
March 25th, 2011, 12:57 PM
I just finished going through the psyche and marking the names of the people I know and want to cheer on this weekend. You can't scratch; I already have a star next to your name! :D

Seriously, though, in every other race you are entered, you are in the top group of women- and that's women of ALL ages. You ROCK! The 400IM is mixed and there are only two women faster than you- and they are a lot younger!

Hey, I went to Nationals, last year, as a newbie, and was seeded second to last in all of my events. I didn't care; at least I showed up and competed the best I could. Who cares what other people think??? If anything, what they WILL be thinking is that you ROCK for swimming the 400IM! About all I can handle is the 100IM. :blush:

You go, Girl! :cheerleader:

mcountryman
March 25th, 2011, 01:10 PM
Kristin, don't even think of scratching!! You will do great no matter what heat you are in. There is no humilation in swimming the 400 IM...many people would not even attempt it (like me).

This will be my first 1000, and I obviously miscalculated my seed time probably ending up in the fastest heat (YIKES), so I'll be getting lapped too (hehehe). Then following that I am swimming the 200 Fly with 2 other girls who are WAY faster than me. So you have no worries.

Just remember, we are there to have fun and challenge ourselves!

hnatkin
March 25th, 2011, 01:47 PM
My guess is that the 400IM is preseeded since the entry doesn't say anything about positive check-in being required. That means that you will be in the first (slower) heat. If I were you I'd WANT to be in the faster heat. The slow folks won't give you a race. And I'm betting your seed time is actually 20-30 secs off. If you want, I'll race you in it in the fall so long as lefty is working correctly!

TinaA
March 25th, 2011, 02:05 PM
My first time ever in the 400 IM was earlier this season. The other 5 people in the heat finished a full 50 ahead of me. I swam the last 50 alone, but with a lot of cheering from the crowd. When I was warming down I got nothing but high 5's from people impressed that I would even be swimming that race. There was a lot of "oh I could never do that event". Also had a similar experience in the 200 fly last year.

Lump
March 25th, 2011, 02:16 PM
Just swim it! I know you can make it legally with ease. Nobody will expect a new Master's WR. If June Callaway can finish the 1650 ten minutes after the previous finisher in the 1650, you can certain finish back a minute or two. You are a very competent swimmer and worry WAY to much!! :D

Look at me last year at Clemson. I had to swim about every event right next to Lance Asti (a sub :20 50 freestyler). Its okay to get your arse handed to ya once in awhile.

Bobinator
March 25th, 2011, 03:17 PM
I'd say go ahead and swim it no matter what; it's your last event of the day. When you're done reward yourself with a margarita and a big juicy cheeseburger!!!!!!! I would definitely do it for that!!

pmccoy
March 25th, 2011, 03:27 PM
"Getting your $$$ out of the meet" doesn't move me either and I almost never max out events.
That's got me pegged... I'm cheap! Probably why I like mid-distance events better. More time in the pool for the same money.

want2beafish
March 25th, 2011, 04:14 PM
Thanks for all of your replies and encouragement. Deep down I think I do want to swim it, but being the first time I'm swimming it and due to the fact that I will likely be out of my league in my heat, that's why I'm feeling so anxious about it. That, and it's really the first event I've ever swum that it's not guaranteed that I'll be able to finish. Obviously I have never done the 200 (or even the 100) fly. Also, I seeded myself a bit too fast at the last meet I did, not taking into account the lack of a taper and no magic suit. I spent most of my events just trying to stay within a respectable distance of the swimmers in my heat, and I obviously have lingering issues from that. :blush:

I'll report back the good, the bad, and the ugly. Hopefully it will be mostly the first mentioned.

want2beafish
March 25th, 2011, 04:34 PM
Swim it!!!

Strategy -- Fly: To borrow from pwb (http://forums.usms.org/showpost.php?p=233560&postcount=10), "Loaf, loaf loaf, and LOAF HARD". Back: Swim it. Breast: Swim it. Free: swim, build, sprint, sprint. The great thing about the 400 IM is you don't have to swim any of it fast, except maybe the last 50. Otherwise it's just like what you do in workouts every day, with a little less rest between the 100s.

Swim it! You will love this event!
Love the strategy... and as far as loving it goes, can I hold you to that? :)


If you like the event or want to swim it in the future, give it a whirl. If you think scratching makes you mentally week, swim it to erase that feeling.
A wise swimmer once told me, if you have one really good swim a meet, you've achieved something and it was worth it. So sometimes I narrow my focus rather than broaden it. To each his own!
Leslie, you've made some great points. The 400 IM is an event that theoretically I SHOULD like. I do want to swim it, but was just hoping that I'd be able to relax it the first time. Being in a slower heat would have enabled me to do that. Really, I made the mistake in seeding myself with anything other than a NT. I will know better for next time. That being said, I agree with your philosophy on scratching. I scratched a couple of events in a meet that I did in the fall, which was the first time I had ever scratched. It was for the right reasons, and it felt good.




The 400IM is mixed and there are only two women faster than you- and they are a lot younger!
Elaine, one of the women seeded right above five minutes is a friend of mine from my team. She is a phenomenal swimmer.


There is no humilation in swimming the 400 IM...many people would not even attempt it (like me).

This will be my first 1000, and I obviously miscalculated my seed time probably ending up in the fastest heat (YIKES), so I'll be getting lapped too (hehehe). Then following that I am swimming the 200 Fly with 2 other girls who are WAY faster than me. So you have no worries.

Just remember, we are there to have fun and challenge ourselves!
Marianne, for one thing -- you are swimming the 200 fly. I know you're a butterflyer, but I still would think the 200 fly would be much harder than the 400 IM. And you will do great in the 1000! I think you're actually going to be pretty close to your seed time, and you're actually likely to beat it. And as far as your seed time for the 500 goes -- you'll beat that by quite a bit. I think you are going to surprise yourself!


My guess is that the 400IM is preseeded since the entry doesn't say anything about positive check-in being required. That means that you will be in the first (slower) heat. If I were you I'd WANT to be in the faster heat. The slow folks won't give you a race. And I'm betting your seed time is actually 20-30 secs off. If you want, I'll race you in it in the fall so long as lefty is working correctly!
Heidi, I'm not sure if it's pre-seeded or deck seeded. I asked Tracy, and she said that she thinks it's deck seeded just like the 1000. I actually didn't see any reference to any events being deck seeded, but I'm pretty sure they've always deck seeded the distance freestyles at St. Pat's. As far as my estimated seed time goes, I was figuring 1:30 for fly and back, 1:40 for breast, and 1:20 for free. Remember, you are a lot stronger in stroke than I am; you would kick my butt! If I go under my seed estimate, I will be thrilled. See you tomorrow!


J
Look at me last year at Clemson. I had to swim about every event right next to Lance Asti (a sub :20 50 freestyler). Its okay to get your arse handed to ya once in awhile.
Ummm... you were beaten by one person. I routinely get my arse handed to me by many people. :-) But I do remember Lance Asti's races at Clemson being very fun to watch!


I'd say go ahead and swim it no matter what; it's your last event of the day. When you're done reward yourself with a margarita and a big juicy cheeseburger!!!!!!! I would definitely do it for that!!
MMMMM.... Margaritas..... Now THERE'S motivation!!! :D

hnatkin
March 25th, 2011, 04:41 PM
Kristen
I may be quicker on stroke but not :45 out of 400. I'm betting you go closer to 1:20 on your fly and 1:15 on the free. So you're down to 5:45 already and I know you're gonna kick butt! What's the wager? margarita?
I won't be there tomorrow but I'll see you Sunday and you can tell me all about it then!
Heidi

Allen Stark
March 25th, 2011, 05:09 PM
The last time I swam a SCY 200 fly I went out too fast and the way I got through it was every time I pushed off I thought"you only have to swim a 25 fly and then you can hang on the wall and rest."I didn't,but knowing I could was a great comfort.Remember that in your 400 IM and go for it.

orca1946
March 25th, 2011, 05:47 PM
S C is better to try a 400 I M cuz of the friendly walls! :applaud::banana:

swimsuit addict
March 25th, 2011, 07:33 PM
I was in the same situation as you the first time I ever swam a 400 IM--fastest heat, way slowest swimmer. I knew I should just be racing the clock, like everyone is telling you, but I was self-conscious about finishing last, plus I never really like seeing everyone going by me in a race. One thing that helped is that I decided that I wanted to swim just one split--breaststroke in my case, but you could pick anything late in the race--faster than someone else in my heat. That helped me swim slow enough in the fly that the rest of the race was manageable, and even fun. So yeah, I got lapped by most of the field, but I finished, and swam a smart race instead of trying to race faster folks from the get-go. And I was really proud when I looked at the splits and saw that I had indeed out-breaststroked the guy next to me who had nearly lapped me on the fly.

Just a thought--you seem to have lots of good advice on swimming the race, and I'm sure you'll have a blast at the meet, and swim an incredible IM!

want2beafish
March 25th, 2011, 10:55 PM
Kristen
I
I won't be there tomorrow but I'll see you Sunday and you can tell me all about it then!
Heidi
Heidi, enjoy your day off from racing and I will see you on Sunday! How was Boston last week?


The last time I swam a SCY 200 fly I went out too fast and the way I got through it was every time I pushed off I thought"you only have to swim a 25 fly and then you can hang on the wall and rest."I didn't,but knowing I could was a great comfort.Remember that in your 400 IM and go for it.
I love that idea. I will definitely use it -- thank you!!

S C is better to try a 400 I M cuz of the friendly walls! :applaud::banana:
Absolutely!

I was in the same situation as you the first time I ever swam a 400 IM--fastest heat, way slowest swimmer. I knew I should just be racing the clock, like everyone is telling you, but I was self-conscious about finishing last, plus I never really like seeing everyone going by me in a race. One thing that helped is that I decided that I wanted to swim just one split--breaststroke in my case, but you could pick anything late in the race--faster than someone else in my heat. That helped me swim slow enough in the fly that the rest of the race was manageable, and even fun. So yeah, I got lapped by most of the field, but I finished, and swam a smart race instead of trying to race faster folks from the get-go. And I was really proud when I looked at the splits and saw that I had indeed out-breaststroked the guy next to me who had nearly lapped me on the fly.

Just a thought--you seem to have lots of good advice on swimming the race, and I'm sure you'll have a blast at the meet, and swim an incredible IM!
That's great advice too, Janet! Thanks, and I will do that as well -- in my case it will be freestyle. I actually have a fairly strong freestyle split in my 200 IM, and doing that will probably help my kick at the end of the 400. And I'll bet that approach actually helps all of the splits to be faster than they would be by taking the pressure off.

Edit: Janet, I recognized your name -- I think you are in my age group, and beat me at several events at the Auburn meet. :-) Nice swimming!

swimsuit addict
March 26th, 2011, 08:15 AM
Edit: Janet, I recognized your name -- I think you are in my age group, and beat me at several events at the Auburn meet. :-) Nice swimming!

Aha, so you must be the Kristin who is always ahead of me in the GTD age-group rankings!

Thanks for the kind words, Auburn was an unexpectedly good meet for me. It's too bad we never got a chance to meet in person there though--if I'm at a meet down that way with you again I'll definitely make a point of introducing myself!

want2beafish
March 26th, 2011, 03:52 PM
Aha, so you must be the Kristin who is always ahead of me in the GTD age-group rankings!

Thanks for the kind words, Auburn was an unexpectedly good meet for me. It's too bad we never got a chance to meet in person there though--if I'm at a meet down that way with you again I'll definitely make a point of introducing myself!
Absolutely! I'd love to meet you! Are you going to be at LCM Nats this year?

want2beafish
March 26th, 2011, 04:10 PM
OK... the deed is done. :)

First off, the rest of my meet today was mediocre to fairly crappy. However, I'm really not sure how much of that is the lack of the B70/full body suits, as the only events I've swum well this SCY season are the ones I never swam in the magic suits. So... I'm thinking that I need to reset my expectations for my freestyle. I knew I'd have to do this (as I know many of us did), but I just didn't think I'd have to reset them so drastically.

Anyway... the meet went relatively quickly, with not much rest between events. I swam the 1000, the 50 free, 200 free, and then about 30 minutes after the 200 was the 400 IM. My 200 was the worst, possibly because I was worried about swimming it too hard and not being able to finish the 400 IM. I was determined to keep a positive attitude, though, which to those who know me, that isn't always easy for me to do. :)

I was in the first of two heats, as they swam the 400 IM slow to fast. I had seeded myself at 6:00, which I felt was conservatively realistic based on my 200 IM time. I decided to take the great advice I received on this thread (love the loaf/loaf/loaf/loaf faster advice for fly, but have to admit that I forgot about outsplitting my heat in one stroke until I was on the 2nd 25 of my free. I did speed up at that point)! My friends, knowing how worried (neurotic) I was, were all standing at the end of my lane cheering for me -- hopefully not in an overly sympathetic way. The race went great -- Judd, you're right! I LOVED it!! I split 1:22/1:23/1:38/1:14 and ended up going 5:38.03. I couldn't believe how much easier it was than I thought it would be. I know that with swimming it more, and I WILL swim it more, I'll be able to fine-tune my pacing and hopefully will eventually be able to go sub-5:30.

Thanks to all of you for your encouragement. I do appreciate it, and if I have all crappy races tomorrow, I will still have the 400 IM! To those of you who are debating swimming this race, do it at least once. The feeling of the last 50 is amazing!

Lump
March 26th, 2011, 04:18 PM
You did great, Dave and I were in the stands watching. You were strong throughout, just like I thought you'd be! :applaud:

want2beafish
March 26th, 2011, 04:53 PM
You did great, Dave and I were in the stands watching. You were strong throughout, just like I thought you'd be! :applaud:
Thanks, Jeff. I'm glad I swam one event well today -- it was nice to end the day on a positive note!

mcountryman
March 26th, 2011, 04:53 PM
Your 400 IM was great!!! If you loafed the fly like you said and split it at 1:22, maybe you should consider taking up the 100 Fly as well!! It was fun to watch and cheer you on.

want2beafish
March 26th, 2011, 04:55 PM
Your 400 IM was great!!! If you loafed the fly like you said and split it at 1:22, maybe you should consider taking up the 100 Fly as well!! It was fun to watch and cheer you on.
Marianne, the fly did feel easy and was over before I knew it! Not sure how much faster I could take it, though, as I am not a very strong butterflier... Your 200 fly looked great -- so strong! I cannot even imagine going another 100!

couldbebetterfly
March 26th, 2011, 05:01 PM
:applaud: Well done!


To those of you who are debating swimming this race, do it at least once. The feeling of the last 50 is amazing!

I guess there's a real sense of achievement as you get into the 100 free. I am going to do the 400IM one day, not this year, but before I'm 40 :afraid:

hnatkin
March 26th, 2011, 05:10 PM
Congrats! I knew you'd be much faster than your seed time!
Sleep well and we'll try to take that 500 under 6 together! (I went 5:59 last weekend).

pmccoy
March 26th, 2011, 05:25 PM
I was in the first of two heats, as they swam the 400 IM slow to fast. I had seeded myself at 6:00, which I felt was conservatively realistic based on my 200 IM time. I decided to take the great advice I received on this thread (love the loaf/loaf/loaf/loaf faster advice for fly, but have to admit that I forgot about outsplitting my heat in one stroke until I was on the 2nd 25 of my free. I did speed up at that point)! My friends, knowing how worried (neurotic) I was, were all standing at the end of my lane cheering for me -- hopefully not in an overly sympathetic way. The race went great -- Judd, you're right! I LOVED it!! I split 1:22/1:23/1:38/1:14 and ended up going 5:38.03. I couldn't believe how much easier it was than I thought it would be. I know that with swimming it more, and I WILL swim it more, I'll be able to fine-tune my pacing and hopefully will eventually be able to go sub-5:30.Great job! Sounds like you need to be giving me tips.

larsoda
March 26th, 2011, 05:27 PM
Great swim & thanks for the thread!

If I hadn't already sent in my registration for my final meet of the year, I would have entered the 400IM because of your story and the responses. And I had that thought YESTERDAY!

Dan

ElaineK
March 26th, 2011, 05:48 PM
Kristin, I was with your friends behind the blocks cheering you on and I can assure you they weren't "sympathetic". They were saying great things about you and how well you were doing! It was all good! :cheerleader:

Congratulations for doing such a great job. Good luck tomorrow; I'll see you there!

Cheers!
:chug:

ElaineK
March 26th, 2011, 05:51 PM
Your 400 IM was great!!! If you loafed the fly like you said and split it at 1:22, maybe you should consider taking up the 100 Fly as well!! It was fun to watch and cheer you on.

Marianne, it was fun cheering both you and Kristin on! You rocked today! :cheerleader: Congratulations on killing your seed times by a ton! Good luck tomorrow; we'll see you there. Sorry I will miss your 500, tomorrow, though. My first event isn't until the 100 breaststroke, so I'm going to cruise in around the same time I got there today and warm up in the 50m pool.

Swimosaur
March 26th, 2011, 06:07 PM
The race went great -- Judd, you're right! I LOVED it!! I split 1:22/1:23/1:38/1:14 and ended up going 5:38.03. I couldn't believe how much easier it was than I thought it would be. I know that with swimming it more, and I WILL swim it more, I'll be able to fine-tune my pacing and hopefully will eventually be able to go sub-5:30.

:applaud: Well done!! :applaud: Bravo!! :applaud: Standing O!! :applaud:

See I told you! It's the best event in the pool! It's as much fun as you can have at a meet! And the breaststroke pullouts?? You know, the part where it feels like somebody set your lungs on fire?? I guess I forgot to mention that detail ... but you did great! Excellent swim!

And ... excellent time, too! Last year that time would have been in the top 30, and if you can go sub 5:30, you'll be in the top 20! I think you've found a new event!

Congratulations!

want2beafish
March 26th, 2011, 06:10 PM
:applaud:
I guess there's a real sense of achievement as you get into the 100 free. I am going to do the 400IM one day, not this year, but before I'm 40 :afraid:
Definitely! Once I got to freestyle, I felt like I was home free. Actually, I thought that the breaststroke was the hardest part. Don't be afraid to do this race, especially since you're a strong butterflier. You have plenty of time, though... I'm 45. :)

Congrats! I knew you'd be much faster than your seed time!
Sleep well and we'll try to take that 500 under 6 together! (I went 5:59 last weekend).
Thanks, Heidi! Great job on the 500! I've yet to break 6:00 without the old B70. Not sure this is the meet for it, though, as my freestyle isn't where I want it to be right now. The 6:04 at Auburn just about killed me. Stranger things have happened, though!

Great job! Sounds like you need to be giving me tips.
Thanks! That's the great thing about reading this forum, though... we all have tips for each other. There's always something to learn, and new perspectives to examine.

Great swim & thanks for the thread!

If I hadn't already sent in my registration for my final meet of the year, I would have entered the 400IM because of your story and the responses. And I had that thought YESTERDAY!

Dan
Glad it helped more people than just me! Can you late enter?

Kristin, I was with your friends behind the blocks cheering you on and I can assure you they weren't "sympathetic". They were saying great things about you and how well you were doing! It was all good! :cheerleader:

Congratulations for doing such a great job. Good luck tomorrow; I'll see you there!

Cheers!
:chug:
Thanks, Elaine! It was great to see you! Tomorrow I will be more talkative, as I won't be stressing about the 400 IM anymore. :-) See you in the morning!

swimsuit addict
March 26th, 2011, 06:55 PM
Congrats on your swim! What pretty splits!

I'm not sure yet if I'm going to Auburn nats, but if I do I'll be sure to look you up. Maybe we can even swim the 4IM together!

jethro
March 26th, 2011, 07:24 PM
To those of you who are debating swimming this race, do it at least once. The feeling of the last 50 is amazing!

Great job! After reading this thread, I'm now looking forward to doing it, instead of wondering what the heck I was thinking and debating, like you, whether or not I should scratch. Fortunately, in my case it's the very first event, so if it goes well, I should be pumped for everything else.

Thanks again for starting this thread. :)

swimshark
March 26th, 2011, 08:24 PM
OK... the deed is done. :)

First off, the rest of my meet today was mediocre to fairly crappy. However, I'm really not sure how much of that is the lack of the B70/full body suits, as the only events I've swum well this SCY season are the ones I never swam in the magic suits. So... I'm thinking that I need to reset my expectations for my freestyle. I knew I'd have to do this (as I know many of us did), but I just didn't think I'd have to reset them so drastically.

Anyway... the meet went relatively quickly, with not much rest between events. I swam the 1000, the 50 free, 200 free, and then about 30 minutes after the 200 was the 400 IM. My 200 was the worst, possibly because I was worried about swimming it too hard and not being able to finish the 400 IM. I was determined to keep a positive attitude, though, which to those who know me, that isn't always easy for me to do. :)

I was in the first of two heats, as they swam the 400 IM slow to fast. I had seeded myself at 6:00, which I felt was conservatively realistic based on my 200 IM time. I decided to take the great advice I received on this thread (love the loaf/loaf/loaf/loaf faster advice for fly, but have to admit that I forgot about outsplitting my heat in one stroke until I was on the 2nd 25 of my free. I did speed up at that point)! My friends, knowing how worried (neurotic) I was, were all standing at the end of my lane cheering for me -- hopefully not in an overly sympathetic way. The race went great -- Judd, you're right! I LOVED it!! I split 1:22/1:23/1:38/1:14 and ended up going 5:38.03. I couldn't believe how much easier it was than I thought it would be. I know that with swimming it more, and I WILL swim it more, I'll be able to fine-tune my pacing and hopefully will eventually be able to go sub-5:30.

Thanks to all of you for your encouragement. I do appreciate it, and if I have all crappy races tomorrow, I will still have the 400 IM! To those of you who are debating swimming this race, do it at least once. The feeling of the last 50 is amazing!

Great job!! See, I told you you'd love the feeling after.

Allen Stark
March 26th, 2011, 09:53 PM
I'll join the "great job" club,great job:cheerleader::cheerleader::cheerleader:

couldbebetterfly
March 26th, 2011, 10:06 PM
Definitely! Once I got to freestyle, I felt like I was home free. Actually, I thought that the breaststroke was the hardest part. Don't be afraid to do this race, especially since you're a strong butterflier. You have plenty of time, though... I'm 45. :)

Thanks, Heidi! Great job on the 500! I've yet to break 6:00 without the old B70. Not sure this is the meet for it, though, as my freestyle isn't where I want it to be right now. The 6:04 at Auburn just about killed me. Stranger things have happened, though!



Good luck in the 500! - my aim is to break the 6.00 too (or re-break according to my fastest converted 400m), but not sure when I'll get the opportunity to swim it again - and I ought to train a bit more for it too. Also despite being a good flyer, my back has historically been awful and my breast only slightly better - acceptable for 200IMs, but I need to put in some work there for the 400.

Keep us updated on how you do:)

want2beafish
March 27th, 2011, 07:07 AM
Congrats on your swim! What pretty splits!

I'm not sure yet if I'm going to Auburn nats, but if I do I'll be sure to look you up. Maybe we can even swim the 4IM together!
Thanks! But 4IM long course? Not sure I'm ready for that! Maybe the LCM 2IM though... :)

Great job! After reading this thread, I'm now looking forward to doing it, instead of wondering what the heck I was thinking and debating, like you, whether or not I should scratch. Fortunately, in my case it's the very first event, so if it goes well, I should be pumped for everything else.

Thanks again for starting this thread. :)
Awesome! I'm so glad the thread is helping others! I am a lurker for most of the time, and have been helped by others' threads. Glad this one is giving back. Good luck, and please be sure to post how it goes!

Great job!! See, I told you you'd love the feeling after.


I'll join the "great job" club,great job:cheerleader::cheerleader::cheerleader:
Thanks!! :)

Good luck in the 500! - my aim is to break the 6.00 too (or re-break according to my fastest converted 400m), but not sure when I'll get the opportunity to swim it again - and I ought to train a bit more for it too. Also despite being a good flyer, my back has historically been awful and my breast only slightly better - acceptable for 200IMs, but I need to put in some work there for the 400.

Keep us updated on how you do:)
My strokes are mediocre, but my backstroke is getting better. I think the 400IM is almost more about endurance than it is having a perfect stroke. Go for it! And good luck in the 500!

ElaineK
March 27th, 2011, 04:54 PM
Congratulations, Kristin! You did great this weekend ! You ROCKED! Congrats. to Marianne, as well, for winning high points in the 45-49 age group. Marianne you were AWESOME to watch, this weekend, beating all your seed times! You keep improving like this and we'll be seeing you in the Top Ten someday soon! :cheerleader:

Heidi, you rocked as always. You are fast! Great job! :applaud:

Celestial and Swimcat, it was great meeting you two this weekend and putting faces to the Forumite avatars. :D

Joyce, if you are out there lurking and happen to see this, congatulations to you, too! You're getting better all the time! I'm looking forward to swimming relays with you on our new team, later this year!

I hope I didn't miss any of our gals. If so, sorry about that! I still haven't matched up all the swimmers I have met to their avatars.

:cheerleader:You GO Girls!!! :cheerleader:

Swimosaur
March 27th, 2011, 05:49 PM
You did great this weekend !

And you did too! Let the record show that Elainiak won ALL the breaststroke events in her age group! A couple of PBs too! Well done!

Results --> https://www.clubassistant.com/c/7BB0607/file/Meet%20Results/st_pats_2011_results.pdf

ElaineK
March 27th, 2011, 09:34 PM
And you did too! Let the record show that Elainiak won ALL the breaststroke events in her age group! A couple of PBs too! Well done!

Results --> https://www.clubassistant.com/c/7BB0607/file/Meet%20Results/st_pats_2011_results.pdf


:smooch:Thanks, Swimosaur! But, I'll be honest with ya here. I used my Auburn times as my seed times; not my PB's. Although I was close to hitting my PB on the 200 breaststroke and 100IM, I was way off on the 50 and 100. I had too deep of a start on the 50 and thought I was never going to surface; I thought I would DQ for not breaking the surface before my insweep! So, I missed my PB of 38.90 by 3.03 seconds. Ouch! Then, on the 100, today, I was 5 seconds off my PB! :badday: The lactic acid (or whatever you want to call it...) flooded me at the 75 mark and I was basically treading water to keep from :drown: on the last 25. I didn't have that problem yesterday on the 200 or 50, but the 100 breaststroke was my first event of the day, following a lousy warm up in the 88-90(?) degree kiddie pool that knocked me out. Oh well, the 100 breaststroke served as a good warm up for my 100IM, once I got rid of the lactic acid build up and got a second wind! :D

It was a fun meet and I enjoyed watching and :cheerleader: for the other Forumites and my non-Forumite buddies!

Swimosaur, I didn't get to meet you at Auburn, so I hope to meet you at Nationals; either SCY or LCM! :)

swimshark
March 28th, 2011, 07:29 AM
And you did too! Let the record show that Elainiak won ALL the breaststroke events in her age group! A couple of PBs too! Well done!

Results --> https://www.clubassistant.com/c/7BB0607/file/Meet%20Results/st_pats_2011_results.pdf

Congratulations, Elaine.

want2beafish
March 28th, 2011, 10:16 AM
Thanks, Elaine! You did great as well! Don't worry about your 100 breast. A meet with that many events that goes that quickly is tough to do. You were a lot fresher for the 200 breast, as evidenced by the fact that your 100 split in the 2 breast on Saturday was faster than your 100 breast on Sunday. :) That's happened to me before a couple of times when the long distance free is the first event of the meet and the 400/500 is the last event of the meet. The physical and mental fatigue takes its toll.

Even though Saturday was a wash except for the 400 IM for me, Sunday was better (except for the 100 free). I swam the 500 free as a hard 2nd warmup, and ended up swimming my Auburn time. I think giving myself permission to relax my swim helped me to go faster than I expected to go. Which means that I've not been relaxing the 500 enough at the beginning. I think that if I had actually raced the 500 I would have gone maybe 5-6 seconds faster at most, and I wouldn't have had good races afterwards. Probably the main difference in my pacing if I had raced it would have been that I would have built the 2nd half of my race instead of just the last 50. But at what cost?

The 200 IM was about 15 minutes after I finished my 500. I ended up swimming only three seconds over my best (B70) time from St. Pat's last year, and 3 seconds better than my Auburn time from last month. I was hoping to see a drop since I've been training more IM for the 400. The 100 free was about 15 minutes after that, and that race wasn't great as I couldn't ever pick up my speed (and should have also taken it out faster, as I wasn't all that tired when I finished... but then again I am not a sprinter). 200 back was so much fun -- I LOVE that race but even more LCM... ended up going 1:17/1:18 for my 100 splits and the entire race felt great, and I had a personal best -- 2 seconds below my Auburn time. Given that I have been told that the 200 back is supposed to hurt (which it never has the half dozen times I've swum it -- except maybe the last 50), I would think I have more room to improve there as well.

I feel like I need to focus more on IM and backstroke rather than distance free right now. Like many of you, I'm sure, I tend to overthink races, splits, results. etc., and it really gets into my head. And since I have events that I am dropping time in and have the potential to drop more, that's what I need to be doing to keep my sanity. And this is masters, after all. It's supposed to be fun, right? :)

Celestial
March 30th, 2011, 01:50 PM
Kristin - I'm so glad you didn't scratch!! You're an animal!! (i.e. dolphin, shark, mermaid, etc.) Aren't you glad you did it?! :applaud::applaud::applaud:

want2beafish
March 30th, 2011, 04:01 PM
Kristin - I'm so glad you didn't scratch!! You're an animal!! (i.e. dolphin, shark, mermaid, etc.) Aren't you glad you did it?! :applaud::applaud::applaud:

Celeste, now the light bulb goes off! I knew I had seen your name before St. Pat's... and it was here! It was so nice meeting you! And I must say that you look 10 years younger than the heat sheet said you were. :)

I am SO glad that I didn't scratch! It did help a lot that the event was pre-seeded. Next time, though, I won't complain if I'm in a faster heat. I know I can get through it now, so that will get me through.

I thought about you at my practice today! Remember when we were talking about swimming similar paces at practice and at meets? Well... looks like I qualify for that in distance free. :blush: My coach gave me 3x500 pull (granted I was wearing paddles, but still), on 6:15. I came in at 6:00, 6:02, 6:01. I should be going a lot faster in meets than a 6:04 and a 12:35 in the 1000! It's a mental thing at this point, I think -- probably for both of us!

ElaineK
March 30th, 2011, 10:17 PM
Thanks, Elaine! You did great as well! Don't worry about your 100 breast. A meet with that many events that goes that quickly is tough to do. You were a lot fresher for the 200 breast, as evidenced by the fact that your 100 split in the 2 breast on Saturday was faster than your 100 breast on Sunday. :) That's happened to me before a couple of times when the long distance free is the first event of the meet and the 400/500 is the last event of the meet. The physical and mental fatigue takes its toll.



I feel like I need to focus more on IM and backstroke rather than distance free right now. Like many of you, I'm sure, I tend to overthink races, splits, results. etc., and it really gets into my head. And since I have events that I am dropping time in and have the potential to drop more, that's what I need to be doing to keep my sanity. And this is masters, after all. It's supposed to be fun, right? :)

Thanks Alison and Kristin! I appreciate your kindness, Kristin, too! You are so encouraging and supportive; something I really appreciated when I met you at Auburn for the first time. I was completely new to you, but you treated me like a teammate and I felt honored to be on your relay team!

You are an awesome swimmer and I felt you had a lot of guts to go out in the 400IM the way you did. I understood your hesitation; I think we are a lot alike when it comes to overthinking races, etc. Like you, I let things get into my head!

I think you have it right when you suggest what you need to do to keep your sanity. It sounds like the perfect decision for you, because, you're right; it's supposed to be all about fun! And, I've been thinking the same thing for myself, so we're running on the same wavelength. I just recently added the 100IM as my "fun" event; no pressure on myself, just fun. And, when I worked with my coach yesterday, we worked on everything BUT breaststroke for the first time. I even asked him to time my splits on a 500 and critique my freestyle mechanics; something we have only worked on briefly in the past. Why the 500? For the same reason you mentioned; a second warm up. I could have really used that on Sunday, rather than warming up in the hot kiddie pool. I didn't know the 50 meter pool would be closed and I had missed warm ups in the competition pool, because the storm was really bad until 8:45am, in our area. The hot water in the kiddie pool, I believe, is what did me in on my 100 breaststroke; it was a reaction to the heat (something I have problems with in or out of the water). I only went out in :43, but my muscles shut down after the halfway point and it took several minutes to catch my breath after the race. Later, for the 100IM, I felt fine and caught my breath back quickly. And, my time was seven seconds faster than my 100 breaststroke, so I didn't loaf it; I almost got a PB. And, I felt great afterward. So, I'm thinking of adding more events that will get me on the blocks and into the cooler water more and get my body ready to race my best events. I may not do the 500 (especially at a one day meet), but I would at least like to pick up some other 50's, since I'm a sprinter. Besides, from what I figure, if I had picked up more events, I would have placed third, right after Marianne and you. I would have been really pleased with that 1, 2, 3 in our age group! Instead, I placed 6th out of 11, because I only competed in 4 events.

Celeste, I agree with Kristin; you look awesome for your age! :applaud: