PDA

View Full Version : Training age group and masters together



pryzminc
April 2nd, 2011, 03:52 PM
May a registered usa age group swimmer train in the same practice session with master swimmers?

(and visa versa)

An extended response with possible conditions will be appreciated.

TIA
Michael

ALM
April 2nd, 2011, 06:13 PM
I am an employee of USMS. Feel free to call me if you need more information.

The insurance section of our Guide to Operations can be found on our web site under the "Administration" tab.
The direct link is: http://www.usms.org/admin/lmschb/


In the Frequently Asked Questions link you will see this:


3. A member of USA Swimming practices with a USMS team. What is the status of the liability insurance for the USMS member club and its members?

The USMS liability insurance is in full force for the USMS members. There is an unwritten agreement between USMS and USA Swimming permitting each otherís members to practice with one another. However, USMS coverage does not apply to the USA Swimming members, nor does USA Swimming coverage apply to the USMS members. However, the USA Swimming coverage is only in effect if there is a USA Swimming certified coach supervising the practice.

See the coverage grid on the second page of this document for complete details:
Certificate of liablility insurance (http://www.usms.org/admin/lmschb/gto_ins_certificate_of_liability_insurance.pdf)

Anna Lea Matysek
941-556-6279

orca1946
April 2nd, 2011, 07:18 PM
Call in the legal eagles !!:worms:

shahboz
April 2nd, 2011, 09:08 PM
A masters swimmer can also be a USAS swimmer if they spring for the 2 memberships. There are plenty of dual registered masters.

Paul Smith
April 2nd, 2011, 10:07 PM
interesting topic for those that are in situations to do both....we have masters swimmers that train with our senior group and senior kids that on occasion train with our masters...PM me if you want to discuss in more detail!

scyfreestyler
April 3rd, 2011, 01:13 PM
Our team stopped allowing masters swimmers to share any lanes with our age group swimmers sometime late last year. I seem to recall hearing that this rule had come from USA Swimming.

gdanner
April 3rd, 2011, 03:31 PM
I'm dual registered and train with a USA-S club team. As far as I know, there is nothing from USA-S that prohibits this. Our head coach is the Eastern Zone Director, so I'd be surprised to hear otherwise.

nkfrench
April 3rd, 2011, 05:30 PM
I'm reading the USA Swimming information on background checks. There is some discretion left to the club leadership how to implement the requirements for anyone who is not a USAS athlete. The materials just talk about coaches, parents and other volunteers; but I suppose it could apply to Masters. The LSC also has some discretion.

All it takes are a few complaints from swim parents about Masters to get a parent board to set this type of club policy.

Paying Masters dues but getting the more expensive Seniors workouts, adults "staring at their teenager" underwater, only wearing a swimsuit (??), "incidental" body contact with the kids.

What a world.

scyfreestyler
April 3rd, 2011, 05:34 PM
I found some information on this topic here...

http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/4dbd7214-a0eb-4fbb-b6d1-572084159784/INSURANCE%20COVERAGES%20REV%20July%202010%20WEB.pd f


Where it says:


Non-Member
Question: What happens to my clubís insurance if non USA Swimming members are in
the water at the same time as USA Swimming members. e.g., at a USA Swimming
practice?
Answer: This is not an insured activity unless:
a. There is a distinct lane separation (USA Swimming members are in lanes 1-3 and non
USA Swimming members are in lanes 4-6). One coach cannot supervise both groups at
the same time.
b. An individual(s) is involved in a USA Swimming tryout.
c. The non USA Swimming members are USMS members.
In order for the General Liability coverage to be in place for a USA Swimming Local Member
Club, see page 6 for the requirements.

and then...


Parents Working Out Same Time as Team
Question: Some parents want to workout (laps) while their children are at swim team
practice.
Answer: Two different situations. If they want to swim with their kids in the same lanes
while the kids are practicing, they have to join USA Swimming as an athlete member. If
they are swimming in separate lanes and are not being coached by the USA Swimming club
coach, they don't have to join. However, this activity is not an insured activity.

and then...



Masters Swimmers at Practice
Question: A member of the United States Masters Swimming, Inc. practices with a USA
Swimming team. What is the status of the liability insurance for the USA Swimming
member club and its members?
Answer: This would be an insured activity. There is an agreement between USA
Swimming and USMS allowing their members to practice with either organization as long as
a USA Swimming member coach is on deck



It seems like there should be no issues having the two groups practicing together as far as USA Swimming is concerned. Makes me wonder why we have such a draconian policy at our pool. I'll have to investigate.

Celestial
April 3rd, 2011, 08:58 PM
Masters Swimmers at Practice
Question: A member of the United States Masters Swimming, Inc. practices with a USA
Swimming team. What is the status of the liability insurance for the USA Swimming
member club and its members?
Answer: This would be an insured activity. There is an agreement between USA
Swimming and USMS allowing their members to practice with either organization as long as
a USA Swimming member coach is on deck



It seems like there should be no issues having the two groups practicing together as far as USA Swimming is concerned. Makes me wonder why we have such a draconian policy at our pool. I'll have to investigate.[/QUOTE]


I agree - I just joined the kids team & had to fork over another $57 to become registered with USA swimming. I think perhaps the USA coach doesn't know about the collaboration between USA & USMS (which is silly)

jaadams1
April 3rd, 2011, 09:39 PM
Masters Swimmers at Practice
Question: A member of the United States Masters Swimming, Inc. practices with a USA
Swimming team. What is the status of the liability insurance for the USA Swimming
member club and its members?
Answer: This would be an insured activity. There is an agreement between USA
Swimming and USMS allowing their members to practice with either organization as long as
a USA Swimming member coach is on deck



It seems like there should be no issues having the two groups practicing together as far as USA Swimming is concerned. Makes me wonder why we have such a draconian policy at our pool. I'll have to investigate.


I agree - I just joined the kids team & had to fork over another $57 to become registered with USA swimming. I think perhaps the USA coach doesn't know about the collaboration between USA & USMS (which is silly)[/QUOTE]

I had registered with USA-S, but purely for the purpose of competition. I swim either with my Masters practice group, or on my own at the YMCA lap swim times. In order to compete in a USA-S meet, the swimmer must be registered with that program (USMS does not work for this). I could swim with the local club team kids, but then that gets into a whole new $$$$$ range that I'm not willing to fork out at any time. I'm just registered as "unattached" within my LSC for meets...next one (LCM) is 2 weeks after USMS Nationals. :applaud:

Celestial
April 4th, 2011, 08:27 AM
I had registered with USA-S, but purely for the purpose of competition. I swim either with my Masters practice group, or on my own at the YMCA lap swim times. In order to compete in a USA-S meet, the swimmer must be registered with that program (USMS does not work for this). I could swim with the local club team kids, but then that gets into a whole new $$$$$ range that I'm not willing to fork out at any time. I'm just registered as "unattached" within my LSC for meets...next one (LCM) is 2 weeks after USMS Nationals. :applaud:[/QUOTE]

Do you know, I think the silly man (the coach, I mean) actually thinks to use me on relays at the LCM meet we host!! I'm not sure my son will appreciate this - well, he might get a good laugh out of it.

I train with the kids because my job really prohibits my training with my age mates at lunch time. In another 3-4 weeks, I might actually be able to keep up with the 13 year olds. . .

fmracing
April 4th, 2011, 09:18 AM
I might actually be able to keep up with the 13 year olds. . .

With enough determination, you can keep up with, and beat, the 17 year olds too :)


Back to topic... I stopped swimming with age groupers years ago, they just get in my way. :)

swimshark
April 4th, 2011, 08:25 PM
With enough determination, you can keep up with, and beat, the 17 year olds too :)


Back to topic... I stopped swimming with age groupers years ago, they just get in my way. :)

I practice with age groupers and am on a USA-S team. There are days when I can keep up with some of the 17 year olds but some are so super fast!

Celestial
April 5th, 2011, 07:55 PM
I guess it kinda depends on who the 17 year olds are! We have several national & jr.national qualifiers & finalists on our little team, so I try and stay in the slower lane! I mean seriously, I would be really happy to go under a minute in a 100 YARD free, and several of them go below that on 100 LCM free - heck my own son goes near a minute on LCM and he's doing breastroke! :blush: (is this the smilie for "proud mama"?)

swimshark
April 5th, 2011, 08:57 PM
I guess it kinda depends on who the 17 year olds are! We have several national & jr.national qualifiers & finalists on our little team, so I try and stay in the slower lane! I mean seriously, I would be really happy to go under a minute in a 100 YARD free, and several of them go below that on 100 LCM free - heck my own son goes near a minute on LCM and he's doing breastroke! :blush: (is this the smilie for "proud mama"?)

Oh, same here as far as the slower lane. But there are a few I can beat. My team just won ASCA Nationals and with 6 or 7 of them from my group qualifying for Sr. Nationals.

You should be a proud mom for that achievement.

qbrain
April 6th, 2011, 10:42 AM
How many masters are training with USAS teams? Certainly a lot more than 1.

I have been kicking the idea around for a while, but I doubt frail ego could handle it.

jaadams1
April 6th, 2011, 02:59 PM
How many masters are training with USAS teams? Certainly a lot more than 1.

I have been kicking the idea around for a while, but I doubt frail ego could handle it.

I would, but I don't want to pay the costs of the age group training program. Something close to $100 a month, which is WAYYYYYY to steep for my wallet...especially considering I pay next to nothing (if not :2cents: or just the gas in my car to get there) to swim now. Better for the pocketbook!

Celestial
April 6th, 2011, 10:49 PM
How many masters are training with USAS teams? Certainly a lot more than 1.

I have been kicking the idea around for a while, but I doubt frail ego could handle it.

Your frail ego is probably at least as hardy as mine. Once you put on your goggles and start swimming, no one knows how old you are anyways, and if you think it could help you, go for it! Of course I'm talking after a grand total of 4 practices!

swimshark
April 7th, 2011, 02:51 PM
I would, but I don't want to pay the costs of the age group training program. Something close to $100 a month, which is WAYYYYYY to steep for my wallet...especially considering I pay next to nothing (if not :2cents: or just the gas in my car to get there) to swim now. Better for the pocketbook!

I wish mine were that cheap. As a stay at home mom, this is one of my guilty pleasures.

QBrain, go for it. The ego may get bruised but you'll get a lot more out of it in the long run.

Rob Copeland
April 7th, 2011, 03:09 PM
I heck my own son goes near a minute on LCM and he's doing breastroke! :blush: (is this the smilie for "proud mama"?)

Thatís terrific. You should be proud.

Are you per chance related to USA Olympic breaststroker Jeremy Linn? Fast times like those must be genetic, since breaststroke is such an unnatural act.:bolt:

swimshark
April 7th, 2011, 08:20 PM
That’s terrific. You should be proud.

Are you per chance related to USA Olympic breaststroker Jeremy Linn? Fast times like those must be genetic, since breaststroke is such an unnatural act.:bolt:

He only has a sister in the northwest and her kids are younger. He's my coach :)

Celestial
April 7th, 2011, 08:30 PM
Lind, not Linn - and I think breastroke is a bit more natural than butterfly! No Wes is just one of many many young men who go under national QT in the breastroke - goes to a Jr.College here in Florida.

aquajock
April 8th, 2011, 01:38 PM
I swam several times with the Worthington Swim Club age-groupers during the summer when I went to visit my mom in Ohio. The coach was very accomodating - even let me come for 1.5 hours instead of the 2 hours since he thought it might be too long for me.

tjrpatt
April 8th, 2011, 03:19 PM
I train with an childhood age group program about 3 or 4 days a week. It is much closer than my normal Masters program and the practices are way more challenging than my local Y's Masters group. In addition, there is always someone to train with at the age group practices. In the summer, I have to train with my usual Masters program because the start time is earlier. But, I will do the occasional evening workout with the AGers in the summer.