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View Full Version : How many yrs off and still this fast!



marchep
April 4th, 2011, 03:53 PM
Lance Armstrong swam in a 2.4 mile open water swim this weekend and was only beaten by two professional triathletes. He swam the distance in 49+ minutes and missed out on the win by only 22 seconds. WOW!

thewookiee
April 4th, 2011, 03:57 PM
Lance Armstrong swam in a 2.4 mile open water swim this weekend and was only beaten by two professional triathletes. He swam the distance in 49+ minutes and missed out on the win by only 22 seconds. WOW!



Did he pass the drug test?

E=H2O
April 4th, 2011, 04:00 PM
Lance Armstrong swam in a 2.4 mile open water swim this weekend and was only beaten by two professional triathletes. He swam the distance in 49+ minutes and missed out on the win by only 22 seconds. WOW!



Where was it. I'd love to see what the course looked like and what the field was like.

marchep
April 4th, 2011, 04:02 PM
The article I read said "he competed in the Red Licorice 2.4-mile open water swim in Austin, Texas on Sunday, April 3."

E=H2O
April 4th, 2011, 04:14 PM
There were 20 men & 19 women in the race.

http://www.mychiptime.com/searchevent.php?id=5510

marchep
April 4th, 2011, 04:20 PM
Clearly a small race but a VERY impressive time.

swimthegoodfight
April 4th, 2011, 07:40 PM
i was registered and skipped the race because i simply wasn't up for the 4-hour drive to lake travis in the middle of night...

i always have 'swimmer's remorse' when i miss an event i registered for!

did armstrong and the tri-swimmers wear wetsuits?

swimthegoodfight
April 4th, 2011, 07:48 PM
the event was at the mansfield dam at lake travis near austin, tx...
google-map 'mansfield dam, lake travis'

probably a half-dozen tris and open water swims there annually

chaos
April 4th, 2011, 08:11 PM
wet suit ?

evmo
April 4th, 2011, 08:21 PM
wet suit ?

It appears so. This (http://twitpic.com/4gj6ly) was supposedly taken right after the race.

chaos
April 4th, 2011, 08:31 PM
It appears so. This (http://twitpic.com/4gj6ly) was supposedly taken right after the race.

zoiks.... water looks low :(
hope they get some rain by november

E=H2O
April 4th, 2011, 08:54 PM
It also looks like from the finishing times that Armstrong was in the front group of 3 and was dumped by the other two toward the end of the race. Seeing that Armstrong is one of the craftiest athletes that has ever competed, and one that drafted behind others for weeks at a time, I'm bet the other 2 guys did all the work. Nothing wrong with that of course, but that is a reflection of how smart he is. Open water times are irrelevant (except a cable swim). It's all about the competition.

swimthegoodfight
April 4th, 2011, 10:21 PM
i imagine swimming with armstrong was a considerable boost too...

it seems as though armstrong could be a USMS all-american easily

E=H2O
April 4th, 2011, 11:31 PM
i imagine swimming with armstrong was a considerable boost too...

it seems as though armstrong could be a USMS all-american easily

Me thinks that conclusion is a bit premature. USMS All American does not come easy unless you go to an open water competition and the top people in your AG don't show.

Lump
April 4th, 2011, 11:40 PM
It appears so. This (http://twitpic.com/4gj6ly) was supposedly taken right after the race.

I wonder if that is the same James Bonney from Pine Crest (FL)? If so, I remember that guy from High School.

BTW, there is NO way, NO way I'd let Lance Armstrong come out of the water before me. No matter what.

knelson
April 5th, 2011, 01:21 AM
Me thinks that conclusion is a bit premature.

I agree. It's sounds like a good swim, but not exceptional.

swimthegoodfight
April 5th, 2011, 07:54 AM
you three are hilarious - 2.4 miles in open water in 50 minutes is hauling ass.

bob - you make quite a few assumptions there too. We might suppose armstrong and the two triathletes have trained together too... I have never thought 'drafting' was the easiest skill to come by.

swimthegoodfight
April 5th, 2011, 08:03 AM
I reviewed results for the 2010 2-mile cable swim...


CHAMPIONSHIP EVENT: 2-Mile Cable Championship
EVENT NAME: USMS 2-Mile Cable Open Water National Championship
LOCATION: Charlottesville, VA

http://www.usms.org/longdist/ldnats10/2micblresults.pdf (http://www.usms.org/longdist/ldnats10/2micblresults.pdf)

I am well aware no two open water swims are the same... I'll stand by my post... he might make 'all-american' honors if he entered a season of championship open waters

swimthegoodfight
April 5th, 2011, 08:23 AM
i am aware jeff is highly competitive in his age group - he would be very close to a top finish in his age group if he made all the open water championships.

Rykno
April 5th, 2011, 08:52 AM
is 49+ really considered fast for a 2.4mile OW race with a wetsuit? this could be important information if I ever can plan a trip back home around an OW event.

without a wetsuit the top 20 at worlds in Sweden age 40-44 in a lake swim was 40:20 for a 3km but I would assume most of them could have swam the extra .84km under 12min for a time about 52, again without a wetsuit.

I don't consider myself a fast OW swimmmer and I swam a 5km with wetsuit in 1:08 which would be roughly 52:15 for 3.84km (2.4mi) assuming I wouldn't have swam faster knowing it was a shorter race.

swimthegoodfight
April 5th, 2011, 10:40 AM
you're talking about the top 20 at 'world's'... isn't that 'fast?'

i have seen numerous discussions on how much a wetsuit will improve someone's time.

it is my thought that the better swimmer you are the less impact a wetsuit has, that is average to below-average swimmers - both skills & fitness levels - benefit from a wetsuit most.

competition level at any of the USMS open water 'national championships' can vary for a number of reasons... 'all-american' honors would be the top finish in your age group.

I don't mean to say armstrong is a top five open water swimmer for his age group, but rather could quickly be competitive for the top ten AND therefore might easily have the top finish at a national championship event.

Review the times for the USMS open water national championship events... I don't understand how someone argues my post is 'premature.'

knelson
April 5th, 2011, 11:34 AM
it is my thought that the better swimmer you are the less impact a wetsuit has, that is average to below-average swimmers - both skills & fitness levels - benefit from a wetsuit most.

Possibly true, but that doesn't mean good swimmers DON'T benefit from wetsuits.


Review the times for the USMS open water national championship events... I don't understand how someone argues my post is 'premature.'

Because you've made it sound like it's a forgone conclusion that Lance would be an OW All-American. I'm pretty confident Lance could be an outstanding OW swimmer if he wanted to be, but the results of this single race don't convince me that he would be if he just decided to enter a USMS championship event now.

E=H2O
April 5th, 2011, 12:33 PM
you three are hilarious - 2.4 miles in open water in 50 minutes is hauling ass.

bob - you make quite a few assumptions there too. We might suppose armstrong and the two triathletes have trained together too... I have never thought 'drafting' was the easiest skill to come by.

No one said it was easy, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that there is not a single professional or amateur triathlete in the world that could draft better on a bike that he can, or understands it better than he does. One good reading of Analysis of drafting effects in swimming using computational fluid dynamics is all he would need.

As for the time: a couple of years ago I showed up at a 4K swim. I was training for a Half Ironman at the time, not focusing on just OW. It was a lake and everyone wore wetsuits, me included. I was 56 y/o and just back into the water after being out for well over a decade - and 20 years since I raced. On top of that I did not my shoulder surgery until a year later.

At the finish I was 11 out of 142 overall and spent less than 25% of the time drafting. My time was 54:22. I was surprised that I placed so high and assumed the fast swimmers didn't show up. Lance is smart enough to come to the same conclusion.

jkormanik
April 5th, 2011, 12:54 PM
Lance's ... er "Juan Pelota's" (his triathlon alter-ego) time was fast for what I believe it was...a prelude to an Ironman event during 2011. He's simply "testing the waters," I believe, and what better way to do it? He is not a "pure swimmer" and, I do not believe he has ever claimed to be.

To gauge: fastest pro swim at Kona 2010 was Andy Potts with a 48:48. Rounding out the top 5 pros was a time of 51:26. Now wetsuits are not legal in Kona (skin suits are). So, let's take a look at Ironman Arizona swim times, shall we? John Dalhaz was 1st pro out of the water at IMAZ in a time of 47:44. Rounding out the top 5 men's pro finishers was Brandon Marsh with a time of 48:05.

If he races an Ironman event this year, he will be in the 40-44 age group (birthday of 9/18/1971 and USAT takes your birthday as of the end of the year of your race). The fastest age grouper in this group at IMAZ was around 53 minutes. Drafting in this group would likely slow Juan down.

Given those times, me thinkst Juan Pelota will be plenty fast in an Ironman swim. Can anyone argue he will also be plenty fast in an Ironman bike? The "limiting" factor is his run, which he is working on...having teamed up with Alberto Salazar.

Just a little reality check.

E=H2O
April 5th, 2011, 12:59 PM
I don't understand how someone argues my post is 'premature.'

It is your conclusion that is premature (not your post).

E=H2O
April 5th, 2011, 01:14 PM
[QUOTE=jkormanik;240288 Can anyone argue he will also be plenty fast in an Ironman bike?

Just a little reality check.[/QUOTE]

NOPE

Chris Stevenson
April 6th, 2011, 03:39 PM
it seems as though armstrong could be a USMS all-american easily


I reviewed results for the 2010 2-mile cable swim...


CHAMPIONSHIP EVENT: 2-Mile Cable Championship
EVENT NAME: USMS 2-Mile Cable Open Water National Championship
LOCATION: Charlottesville, VA

http://www.usms.org/longdist/ldnats10/2micblresults.pdf (http://www.usms.org/longdist/ldnats10/2micblresults.pdf)

I am well aware no two open water swims are the same... I'll stand by my post... he might make 'all-american' honors if he entered a season of championship open waters


USMS All-American means winning an OW national championship in one's age group. It is hard to generalize based on the info given: no two OW courses are exactly the same, he was wearing a wetsuit, plus I'm sure he was saving up a little for the rest of the race. Rob Jones, who has a lot of experience in OW races with and without wetsuits and appears to be about the same speed as LA, once opined that a wetsuit is worth about one minute per mile.

Some USMS OW championships are fairly sparsely attended and I can definitely see LA winning his age group. I wouldn't go so far as to say it would be a given or easy -- I think he would have been trounced by LaBianco in the race you link to, for example -- but definitely a good possibility, depending on the race and who showed up.

swimthegoodfight
April 6th, 2011, 04:11 PM
thanks Chris...

a fair answer to the all-american question is 'it depends...'

20 minute mile pace at the mansfield dam, lake travis is fast.

I've done about a half-dozen swims there, and I know at least two 'swimmers' in the water this past weekend. I signed up for the race but didn't want to drive four hours in the middle of the night to reach lake travis... whitetail deer, armadillos & raccoons on the road & likely motoring though houston's loop very close to bar closing.

i was very much looking forward to a post-race breakfast taco at 'juan-in-a-million!'

FYI - chaos will vouch i'm slow... and fat.

Chris Stevenson
April 6th, 2011, 05:44 PM
You should look at this post:

http://forums.usms.org/blog.php?b=12775

Holding 3:01-3:04s on 9x300 is excellent. I know that pool is not the same as OW but I would think LA would be *worse* in the pool (compared to OW), not better.

chaos
April 6th, 2011, 06:15 PM
You should look at this post:

http://forums.usms.org/blog.php?b=12775

Holding 3:01-3:04s on 9x300 is excellent. I know that pool is not the same as OW but I would think LA would be *worse* in the pool (compared to OW), not better.

i have to say i'm not that surprised. the TDF is probably the most grueling endurance event in the world, so someone who has conquered that, and has a swimming background should be able to draw from the combination of experiences and lay down some smoking fast times in the water.
(lets face it.... in the world of USMS; 3:01- 3:04's are SMOKING)

knelson
April 7th, 2011, 12:59 AM
(lets face it.... in the world of USMS; 3:01- 3:04's are SMOKING)

That's for sure. I can definitively say that's fast. The open water results are a little more difficult to evaluate, but if he's swimming like that in the pool it's hard to imagine he wouldn't be super fast in open water, too.

I'm a little confused, though. Was thus event a swim only or a tri?

E=H2O
April 7th, 2011, 02:25 AM
And for a bit of video of the swim

http://www.freshwaterswimmer.com/2011/04/more-lance/

E=H2O
April 7th, 2011, 03:12 PM
I thought his breaststroke looked pretty good.