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View Full Version : Relay order at Nationals.



Allen Stark
April 12th, 2011, 08:03 PM
At Nationals we seem to have gone to having a relay early on the last day.At Mesa it is the MR and it is right before the 200 BR.I think this is a lousy time to have a relay.I know the idea is to not have a relay as the last event so that people who want/need to leave early can swim it,but that could be accomplished by having 2 relays at the end of the previous day.I know many of you will just say "man up",but look at it this way,the difference between 1st and 2nd,or 3rd and 4th(3rd being the last of the "big medals") or 10th and 11th(10th getting a medal,11th not) could be .01 sec.You train for months,taper,fly across country,pay for a hotel,do everything you can to swim your best,and then can either be a lousy teammate and skip the relay or swim your event with less than adequate rest.If you are in an older age group ,but are on a small team that can only field a team in a younger age group you could end up with very little rest indeed.I'd like to see this changed.

The Fortress
April 12th, 2011, 08:27 PM
At Nationals we seem to have gone to having a relay early on the last day.At Mesa it is the MR and it is right before the 200 BR.I think this is a lousy time to have a relay.I know the idea is to not have a relay as the last event so that people who want/need to leave early can swim it,but that could be accomplished by having 2 relays at the end of the previous day.I know many of you will just say "man up",but look at it this way,the difference between 1st and 2nd,or 3rd and 4th(3rd being the last of the "big medals") or 10th and 11th(10th getting a medal,11th not) could be .01 sec.You train for months,taper,fly across country,pay for a hotel,do everything you can to swim your best,and then can either be a lousy teammate and skip the relay or swim your event with less than adequate rest.If you are in an older age group ,but are on a small team that can only field a team in a younger age group you could end up with very little rest indeed.I'd like to see this changed.

Hate being told to "man up" myself. The fact is that sprinters need rest and masters, as we get older, need rest to swim at our best. Even Dennis Baker recommends swimming few events if you want superlative times. I completely understand your pain, as I too am somewhat fanatic about getting adequate rest.

For your sake, I hope it's a 200 medley relay. Starting off with a 400 medley relay would be awful.

Chris Stevenson
April 12th, 2011, 09:01 PM
At Nationals we seem to have gone to having a relay early on the last day.At Mesa it is the MR and it is right before the 200 BR.I think this is a lousy time to have a relay.I know the idea is to not have a relay as the last event so that people who want/need to leave early can swim it,but that could be accomplished by having 2 relays at the end of the previous day....I'd like to see this changed.

There already ARE two relays at the end of the previous day (mixed 200 MR and M/F 200 FR). And it is already the longest day at nationals (usually).

So the other option would be to have it on Friday. I think the reason that isn't done is that many people can only get the weekend off to swim in a meet, so putting two relays on a Friday isn't so good.

Someone always loses at nationals. At least the event order changes each time.

Lots of people do sprints at the end of warmup. Think of the 50 BR in the relay as the last little bit of your warmup for the 200 BR.

Or simply ask that you not be put in the relay on Sunday morning. I don't think it is an unreasonable request if you are in the first event after the relay. If your team insists on putting you in there, tell them you will be going at 90% effort...if your 90% effort is better than someone else's 100%, so be it.

Chris Stevenson
April 12th, 2011, 09:07 PM
For your sake, I hope it's a 200 medley relay. Starting off with a 400 medley relay would be awful.

There are usually no 400 relays at nationals (Indy was an exception).

knelson
April 13th, 2011, 10:02 AM
Or simply ask that you not be put in the relay on Sunday morning.

I think this is the best option. I like to swim on relays, too, but my individual events are my priority. For example my only event on Friday is the 400 IM. I'm not going to return to the pool at the end of the day to swim the relay. I have a feeling the Oregon team "needs" Allen a lot more than PNA needs me, though, so I can definitely see his dilemma.

jaadams1
April 13th, 2011, 10:12 AM
I think this is the best option. I like to swim on relays, too, but my individual events are my priority. For example my only event on Friday is the 400 IM. I'm not going to return to the pool at the end of the day to swim the relay. I have a feeling the Oregon team "needs" Allen a lot more than PNA needs me, though, so I can definitely see his dilemma.


????? What !!!!??? You don't think PNA needs you to swim the breaststroke leg on the relay for them!!! I'm shocked!!!???!!!
:rofl::lmao::whiteflag:

Chris Stevenson
April 13th, 2011, 11:45 AM
I think this is the best option. I like to swim on relays, too, but my individual events are my priority. For example my only event on Friday is the 400 IM. I'm not going to return to the pool at the end of the day to swim the relay. I have a feeling the Oregon team "needs" Allen a lot more than PNA needs me, though, so I can definitely see his dilemma.

Relays are tough. Some people really get into them, some not so much. And it can provide an opportunity for slower swimmers to score and thus feel like they are contributing to team success at nationals.

When we put our relays together, we always begin by asking people which relays they are willing to do and proceed from there. (As an aside: Club Assistant makes this a lot easier for most meets with online entry by allowing swimmers to indicate this choice when they register for the meet. For some reason they do not do that for nationals in the signup process, unless I just didn't see it.)

If Oregon does that, and then tries to get Allen to swim on a relay he didn't put on his list, I think it is entirely reasonable if Allen agrees but stipulates that he won't go all-out. Then he can (for example) try to hit his 200 BR pace while swimming relaxed and efficiently, as preparation for that event.

Even with this approach, there can be problems. In the past when I have handled relays for zones or nationals, there are some people who say they are willing to do any and all relays, going so far as to state that relays are the thing that they enjoy most about the event. Others might be willing to only do one per day, if that. Then if there aren't enough willing participants to field tons of relays, the "gung ho" types will complain about the "selfishness" of the others. Both sides are being selfish in different ways, of course.

IMO: forcing people to swim in relays they don't want to, or at the expense of their other events, is not (or shouldn't be) the masters way.... I'll swim on relays I don't want to in order to get more people involved -- that seems pretty legitimate -- but I don't care much about the team score, except to the extent that it motivates others to participate. Again, that's just me.

orca1946
April 13th, 2011, 11:54 AM
My problem has been solved, a faster guy just joined our team & I'm out of the relays!!!! :badday:

knelson
April 13th, 2011, 12:02 PM
Hopefully there's one thing we can all agree on: if you say you're willing to do relays then SHOW UP for them! I can remember a couple times at Nationals where the relay team I was on got to the blocks only to find someone was a no-show.


I think it is entirely reasonable if Allen agrees but stipulates that he won't go all-out

Agreed, but I think this is easier said than done. When you actually get in that race environment it's hard to hold back!

Allen Stark
April 13th, 2011, 01:26 PM
Hopefully there's one thing we can all agree on: if you say you're willing to do relays then SHOW UP for them! I can remember a couple times at Nationals where the relay team I was on got to the blocks only to find someone was a no-show.



Agreed, but I think this is easier said than done. When you actually get in that race environment it's hard to hold back!

At Nats in Oregon we swam 3/4 of a relay as our freestyler was mistakenly told he wasn't on the relay. He is someone reliable (and the person who told him evidently not)so we expected him at the last minute and so started anyway.

orca1946
April 13th, 2011, 01:28 PM
By being bumped, I became the alt. for the relay.

knelson
April 13th, 2011, 01:34 PM
we expected him at the last minute and so started anyway.

If my memory is correct the same thing happened on one of the PNA relays so David Margrave swam two legs when the fourth swimmer never showed up. Yes, they were DQed! :banana:

gull
April 13th, 2011, 02:05 PM
So the other option would be to have it on Friday. I think the reason that isn't done is that many people can only get the weekend off to swim in a meet, so putting two relays on a Friday isn't so good.


Fortunately distance swimmers are always able to take time off in the middle of the week for their events.

jaadams1
April 13th, 2011, 02:40 PM
Fortunately distance swimmers are always able to take time off in the middle of the week for their events.

I wish I was able to take off enough to make it there early. I'd at least be there for the 400 IM Friday...and possibly would have done the 1650 also on Thursday...but that would be two 1650s this season...which is WAY over the maximum allowed for my body. :)

philoswimmer
April 13th, 2011, 03:18 PM
My problem has been solved, a faster guy just joined our team & I'm out of the relays!!!! :badday:

Bummer. :(

Chris Stevenson
April 13th, 2011, 03:25 PM
Fortunately distance swimmers are always able to take time off in the middle of the week for their events.

Heck, most distance swimmers are able to take time off IN THE MIDDLE OF THEIR RACES for relays, without anyone else even noticing... :bolt:

knelson
April 13th, 2011, 03:43 PM
Don't quit your day job, Chris.

Allen Stark
April 13th, 2011, 05:08 PM
Heck, most distance swimmers are able to take time off IN THE MIDDLE OF THEIR RACES for relays, without anyone else even noticing... :bolt:

At many of our local meets we have a 10 min break before the relays,I'd like to propose a 10 min break between the first and second 100s of the 200 BR and 200 fly.:bolt:

Jeff Commings
April 13th, 2011, 05:21 PM
I'm surprised none of the 50 freestylers have commented/complained about going right into the 200 free relay right after the 50 free on Friday.

Since I'm not doing the 200 breast at nationals, I can't be viewed as the authority on this, but I would imagine your body will recover fairly quickly from a 50 breast on a relay. You probably would need only a 200 warmdown. And, Allen, you can use it to get your body ready for the actual 200 race!

It could be worse. The relay could be AFTER the 200 breast.

jaadams1
April 13th, 2011, 08:12 PM
At many of our local meets we have a 10 min break before the relays,I'd like to propose a 10 min break between the first and second 100s of the 200 BR and 200 fly.:bolt:

There's a reason only a few of us swim the 200 Fly. We're crazy, yep, you got it! One of these days I'll actually have the endurance to maintain my splits to the end of the race instead of dropping like a rock (I know That Guy enjoys it during the last 50 as I'm swimming "backwards"!!!). Hopefully that day will be about 2 1/2 weeks from now when I finally get it right!

That Guy
April 13th, 2011, 10:42 PM
:joker::rofl::lmao: