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cheakamus
April 13th, 2011, 07:56 PM
Has anyone addressed this before? The past participle of "swim" is "swum." "Swam" is the simple past. You can say, "I swam three times last week" or "I have swum in that pool many times," but you can never say "I have swam ..." It's simply not correct English.

Sorry to be persnickety, but as a former book editor, it drives me crazy every time I see it, and I see it increasingly more often now that I spend so much time here.:nono:

jaadams1
April 13th, 2011, 08:06 PM
Has anyone addressed this before? The past participle of "swim" is "swum." "Swam" is the simple past. You can say, "I swam three times last week" or "I have swum in that pool many times," but you can never say "I have swam ..." It's simply not correct English.

Sorry to be persnickety, but as a former book editor, it drives me crazy every time I see it, and I see it increasingly more often now that I spend so much time here.:nono:

I have done swum dat swim really gooder than the other time I swam. :D

I was done learned up real good in skool, I think.

ElaineK
April 13th, 2011, 08:34 PM
I have done swum dat swim really gooder than the other time I swam. :D

I was done learned up real good in skool, I think.

:lmao: You beat That Guy to it, James! I thought for sure he would be the first one to respond. :cheerleader:

jaadams1
April 13th, 2011, 08:38 PM
:lmao: You beat That Guy to it, James! I thought for sure he would be the first one to respond. :cheerleader:

On a side note...last Saturday at the PNA Champs...I was the first one into the pool (even ahead of That Guy) for warmups. :banana: This was also a first!!

I'm also sure That Guy will come up with a better grammar phrase than I did anyway...

ElaineK
April 13th, 2011, 08:58 PM
On a side note...last Saturday at the PNA Champs...I was the first one into the pool (even ahead of That Guy) for warmups. :banana: This was also a first!!

I'm also sure That Guy will come up with a better grammar phrase than I did anyway...

How many points (yards) did you score off him? :cheerleader:

jaadams1
April 13th, 2011, 09:02 PM
How many points (yards) did you score off him? :cheerleader:

I wasn't sure...I hopped into the 2nd pool, which they were supposed to use for the even numbered heats of the 400 IM, but at the last minute decided to only use the main competition pool. All I know is that I made the first splash! :)

swimmerb212
April 13th, 2011, 09:12 PM
Has anyone addressed this before? The past participle of "swim" is "swum." "Swam" is the simple past. You can say, "I swam three times last week" or "I have swum in that pool many times," but you can never say "I have swam ..." It's simply not correct English.

Sorry to be persnickety, but as a former book editor, it drives me crazy every time I see it, and I see it increasingly more often now that I spend so much time here.:nono:

If you start noticing when people use "breathe" and "breath" interchangeably on these forums as well, that could distract you from noticing the incorrect use of "swim" in the past tense.

Also, there's a lot of use of smilies in these parts. I don't know of any style guide that suggests or condones their usage but that doesn't seem to be stopping anyone! :bolt:

ViveBene
April 13th, 2011, 09:33 PM
Has anyone addressed this before? The past participle of "swim" is "swum." "Swam" is the simple past. You can say, "I swam three times last week" or "I have swum in that pool many times," but you can never say "I have swam ..." It's simply not correct English.


It's hopeless.
I have ranned to the grocery this morning.

Sad thing is, they prolly all used "have swum" correctly before they started the referenced activity.

Let's do swimming on yer stomach next!

Allen Stark
April 13th, 2011, 09:50 PM
Also, there's a lot of use of smilies in these parts. I don't know of any style guide that suggests or condones their usage but that doesn't seem to be stopping anyone! :bolt:

My youngest child looked over my shoulder as I was typing a post for the forum using smilies and said"you post like a 13 year old girl.":badday::cane::worms:

Glenn
April 13th, 2011, 10:48 PM
Cheakamus,

Thank you for pointing this out!!! It has always bothered me when I see people on this forum say such things as "I have swam". I have wanted to say something for a long time but figured it would be too picky.

OK, so while we are at it, the ones who never capitalize the letter at the beginning of the sentence or with a small "I" in the middle of the sentence also bug me. I can't read those posts. I know, it's my problem.:cane:

I do feel better having said it though.:banana:

That Guy
April 13th, 2011, 10:49 PM
On a side note...last Saturday at the PNA Champs...I was the first one into the pool (even ahead of That Guy) for warmups. :banana: This was also a first!!

I'm also sure That Guy will come up with a better grammar phrase than I did anyway...

...

no200fly
April 13th, 2011, 11:38 PM
Has anyone addressed this before? The past participle of "swim" is "swum." "Swam" is the simple past. You can say, "I swam three times last week" or "I have swum in that pool many times," but you can never say "I have swam ..." It's simply not correct English.

Sorry to be persnickety, but as a former book editor, it drives me crazy every time I see it, and I see it increasingly more often now that I spend so much time here.:nono:

“This is the sort of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put.”

knelson
April 14th, 2011, 12:10 AM
I don't know exactly why, but I think lots of people think "swum" is not a word. I guess it just seems a little ungainly.

My personal pet peeve is when people confuse the word "loose" for "lose."

jaadams1
April 14th, 2011, 12:12 AM
the words "loose" for "lose."

Wait...those are too different words???? :)

knelson
April 14th, 2011, 12:21 AM
I'd also like to point out that--according to the search function--cheakamus is the first person to use the word "persnickety" on these forums. It seems we've all been rather niggardly* in using persnickety here.

* Darn it. I should have known Jim Thornton would have already used "niggardly."

cheakamus
April 14th, 2011, 12:24 AM
Uh-oh, you used the "n" word!:afraid:

swimshark
April 14th, 2011, 08:03 AM
I don't know exactly why, but I think lots of people think "swum" is not a word. I guess it just seems a little ungainly.

My personal pet peeve is when people confuse the word "loose" for "lose."

The one that gets me is when someone says "he dived". No he dove. What happened to using the past tense correctly?!

cheakamus
April 14th, 2011, 10:29 AM
The one that gets me is when someone says "he dived". No he dove. What happened to using the past tense correctly?!

Welcome to the club! "He pleaded guilty" (pled), "He shined the light" (shone), "He lighted the fire" (lit), etc., etc.

knelson
April 14th, 2011, 10:33 AM
Welcome to the club! "He pleaded guilty" (pled), "He shined the light" (shone), "He lighted the fire" (lit), etc., etc.

"The murderer was hanged." Oh, sorry, I guess that one's OK (right?).

Redbird Alum
April 14th, 2011, 10:38 AM
... Or the continued use of "insure" when "ensure" is the word that should have been used!

swimshark
April 14th, 2011, 10:51 AM
Welcome to the club! "He pleaded guilty" (pled), "He shined the light" (shone), "He lighted the fire" (lit), etc., etc.


"The murderer was hanged." Oh, sorry, I guess that one's OK (right?).

I agree with all of these.

In my days of being a probation officer, the clerk of the court used to say "his license were suspended". Really? He had more than one license and all were suspended?!

jaadams1
April 14th, 2011, 11:00 AM
"The murderer was hanged." Oh, sorry, I guess that one's OK (right?).

That's something they need to do more often...enough of this "lifetime w/out parole" B.S.

That Guy
April 14th, 2011, 01:22 PM
How far did you swem this morning?

Allen Stark
April 14th, 2011, 01:26 PM
"The murderer was hanged." Oh, sorry, I guess that one's OK (right?).

The other way could be correct,depending on the murderer.

cheakamus
April 14th, 2011, 01:43 PM
"The murderer was hanged." Oh, sorry, I guess that one's OK (right?).

Yup. No one said English is logical. The others are all recognized American alternatives to standard British usage and so are perfectly acceptable to use, but it's interesting how they appear out of nowhere, gain currency, and eventually squeeze out their predecessors. Five years ago, American newspapers all reported a defendant "pled" guilty. Nowadays you never see it. Personally, I just can't wrap my tongue around "pleaded."

Redbird Alum
April 14th, 2011, 02:29 PM
The other way could be correct,depending on the murderer.


Oh... THAT was clever! :applaud:

no200fly
April 14th, 2011, 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by knelson
"The murderer was hanged." Oh, sorry, I guess that one's OK (right?).


Yup. No one said English is logical. The others are all recognized American alternatives to standard British usage and so are perfectly acceptable to use, but it's interesting how they appear out of nowhere, gain currency, and eventually squeeze out their predecessors. Five years ago, American newspapers all reported a defendant "pled" guilty. Nowadays you never see it. Personally, I just can't wrap my tongue around "pleaded."


I think he was referring to the physical attributes of the person in question rather than harm inflicted to him. Makes me think of a awkward moment that happened on a local news channel when the female co-anchor asked her male counterpart the name of his 12 person, all male musical group. His reply - "The Well Hung Jury." That put an end to the co-anchor cross talk.

I don't know that I agree with you on "pled" vs. "pleaded." In the legal setting, both have been used interchangeably for as long as I can remember.

swimshark
April 14th, 2011, 03:03 PM
I don't know that I agree with you on "pled" vs. "pleaded." In the legal setting, both have been used interchangeably for as long as I can remember.

I've been a part of Law enforcement for 15+ years now. It was always pled. This new pleaded has just taken off in the last few years and I can't stand it.

couldbebetterfly
April 14th, 2011, 03:08 PM
... Or the continued use of "insure" when "ensure" is the word that should have been used!

That one gets me going too. Must be more an American thing than UK, 'cos since I've been here, I constantly see people needing to insure that things get done.

So you're going to call State Farm to "insure" that your kid goes to bed on time?????

That Guy
April 14th, 2011, 04:04 PM
Oh... THAT was clever! :applaud:

But no love for my subtle typo. :badday: (For the record, I swom 3100 yerds this morning.)

knelson
April 14th, 2011, 04:32 PM
To avoid further confusion maybe we can all agree to replace both "swam" and "swum" with "swimmed."

Allen Stark
April 14th, 2011, 04:46 PM
Two things in common usage bother me.First is "epicenter" when they mean center but want to sound fancy.Epi means on or above and epicenter refers to the site on the surface above the earthquake.The second is "decimate" which means "kill every tenth person".Reporters are always saying some area was decimated when I am just certain the tornado didn't line up the citizenry and kill every tenth one.

orca1946
April 14th, 2011, 05:27 PM
O M G ! ahm sow kornfuzzed ass two wat ta sezs ah kant bee shur wat mite came outa da mout nex!

fatboy
April 14th, 2011, 05:28 PM
To avoid further confusion maybe we can all agree to replace both "swam" and "swum" with "swimmed."

Maybe 'swimmeded'

orca1946
April 14th, 2011, 05:39 PM
Hi Frank Dun swumed dangit

no200fly
April 14th, 2011, 05:45 PM
I've been a part of Law enforcement for 15+ years now. It was always pled. This new pleaded has just taken off in the last few years and I can't stand it.

From the Columbia Journalism Review:


The O.E.D. traces “pled” to Scottish legal usage and dialect. The dictionary’s citations are balanced, and those for “pleaded,” by gum, include Blackstone, the giant of Western law.

Several references call “pled” colloquial, but a couple say it is established American usage. If so, it doesn’t seem frequent in any kind of formal writing, and the American press certainly isn’t sympathetic to it. A Nexis search turned up “pleaded” overwhelmingly.

That result is probably skewed, however. The Associated Press stylebook, the guide on such matters for most American newspapers, condemns “pled” as colloquial. And the New York Times stylebook, also influential, prescribes “pleaded” without comment.

There may be room for argument, and “pled” may gaining. It is certainly not irrational for the ear to prefer it to “pleaded.” But the strong preference here, and clearly the safer course in American journalistic writing early in the 21 st century, remains “pleaded.”

As the issue seems to create quite a furor, WestLaw and Lexis/Nexis searches have even been done to look at the usage in individual jurisdictions:


Volokh Conspiracy opened up a can of words when it asked "What is 'the correct past tense of the verb ‘plead’” (“pleaded” or “pled”)?" Eugene Volokh himself takes the view that both usages are standard and thus correct, and cites as evidence that a Westlaw search turned up 5017 uses of "pleaded", and 5573 of "pled".

Michigan, however, appears to have a different opinion. A search of the Michigan Supreme Court and Court of Appeals opinion database turns up 4761 instances of "pleaded" compared to just 491 cases of "pled". In Michigan, case closed.

In Texas, I have seen and heard them used interchangeably for the past 30 years and thus either usage sounds appropriate to me.

I will say that as I get older, I am less particular about language that I hear. As long as I understand the point being made, I don't worry about "who" or "whom", "seen" or "saw", or even "I" or "me." Language changes constantly and common usage determines what usage is "correct." The quote in my first post in this thread has been attributed to Winston Churchill. There is a dispute as to whether he ever said it, but it highlights the fact the he was a great communicator who did not let grammatical construction interfere with the thought communicated by his speech.

knelson
April 14th, 2011, 05:51 PM
"seen" or "saw"

This one bugs me. Hearing someone say "I seen..." is like nails on a chalkboard to me.

orca1946
April 14th, 2011, 06:20 PM
I have heard college grads saying " I seen". How did they get out of H S ?

jaadams1
April 14th, 2011, 07:55 PM
I have heard college grads saying " I seen". How did they get out of H S ?


Football scholarships!! :bolt:

cheakamus
April 14th, 2011, 08:03 PM
Getting back to my original point, though, I have never seen "I have swam" written anywhere until arriving at this particular website.:rantonoff:

no200fly
April 14th, 2011, 08:06 PM
Football scholarships!! :bolt:

You know they didn't have swimming scholarships.

Amy T
April 16th, 2011, 07:19 AM
Should of, could of, would of. That right there is my pet peeve. Should have, could have, would have.

i could of swimmed real goodly on saturday if i would of sleeped gooder.

Susan
April 16th, 2011, 08:02 PM
I think the use of pleaded comes from the AP style book, which is the bible of many newspapers.

no200fly
April 16th, 2011, 10:54 PM
Should of, could of, would of. That right there is my pet peeve. Should have, could have, would have.

i could of swimmed real goodly on saturday if i would of sleeped gooder.

I thought this came from Marlon Brando in On the Waterfront "I coulda been a contenda - I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum."

swimshark
April 17th, 2011, 06:49 AM
i could of swimmed real goodly on saturday if i would of sleeped gooder.

Sounds like something Wookiee would say.

kristilynn
April 17th, 2011, 10:29 AM
I have actually had people try to correct me when I've used "have swum.". Go figure. I taught 6th & 7th grade English for 9 years, so I've seen more than my fair share of poor grammar, but it's always a shock to me at the number of adults who speak/write poorly. My pet peeves include to/too/two and "have went."

poolraat
April 17th, 2011, 11:32 AM
I have actually had people try to correct me when I've used "have swum.". Go figure. I taught 6th & 7th grade English for 9 years, so I've seen more than my fair share of poor grammar, but it's always a shock to me at the number of adults who speak/write poorly. My pet peeves include to/too/two and "have went."

And your/you're, and there/their/they're.

quicksilver
April 17th, 2011, 01:55 PM
i could of swimmed real goodly on saturday if i would of sleeped gooder.


:)

NLT50
April 19th, 2011, 12:45 PM
Has anyone noticed a proliferation of "eK ceteras" going around. I'm not sure how that pronunciation came about but it drives me crazy. I work with people that have a bunch of letters after their names and they all do it. I've seriously thought about putting "ekc" in an email or something to see if they would notice.

Nancy H.
April 19th, 2011, 01:40 PM
One of my pet peeves is apostrophe abuse--people who put random apostrophes whenever they see the letter 's.' An English instructor I once knew referred to this as "the decorative apostrophe."

I work in academia, and it's amazing how people who are otherwise incredibly credentialed can mangle basic grammar--like the woman who sent an email saying, "I have ask the program director to look into this."

What really got me foaming at the mouth, though, was the email I received from someone at another college, requesting "some of your course syllabuses'." Argh, apostrophe abuse and incorrect Latin plural, all in one sentence!

Allen Stark
April 22nd, 2011, 06:32 PM
Here is another pet peeve of mine,saying "impacted" when you mean "affected".Impacted doesn't mean "collided with" it means "occluded",like an impacted wisdom tooth.

pmccoy
April 22nd, 2011, 09:34 PM
Here is another pet peeve of mine,saying "impacted" when you mean "affected".
Affected or effected? What really annoyed me about affected/effected is that MS word used to put a green underline under any sentence with "effected" in it. When you clicked to get the suggested change, it would say "consider using 'affected'". When you changed it, MS Word still underlined it. Clicking for the suggested changed would say "consider using 'effected'".:doh:

Allen Stark
April 23rd, 2011, 03:03 PM
Affected or effected? What really annoyed me about affected/effected is that MS word used to put a green underline under any sentence with "effected" in it. When you clicked to get the suggested change, it would say "consider using 'affected'". When you changed it, MS Word still underlined it. Clicking for the suggested changed would say "consider using 'effected'".:doh:

You effect things,things affect you.

guppy
April 23rd, 2011, 03:11 PM
"The murderer was hanged." Oh, sorry, I guess that one's OK (right?).

Right. Unless he was hung.

Chris Stevenson
April 24th, 2011, 06:31 AM
You effect things,things affect you.

I have never liked 'effect' as a verb, it always seems an affectation.

cheakamus
April 24th, 2011, 12:16 PM
"He effected a change in his affect, the effect of which was to affect the way others saw him.":D