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Herb
April 19th, 2011, 11:37 PM
ok, rip away. Maybe it will be kind of funny if nothing else as I am in a hotel resort pool.


YouTube - MOV01883

jaadams1
April 19th, 2011, 11:55 PM
ok, rip away. Maybe it will be kind of funny if nothing else as I am in a hotel resort pool.


YouTube - MOV01883 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8yGCFb6XuQ)

1. Your head position looks to be a little high and looking forward (not sure if it's to watch out for the kids crossing, or the upcoming ends of the pool. You should try to keep your head in a more neutral downward looking position. This will keep your body position more in-line, and raise your hips/legs up.
2. I think you can benefit by finishing your stroke more towards your thighs at the back end of the stroke. You seem to be pulling your hands out for the recovery early, and losing a lot of power from the end of each stroke. Think about touching your thigh with your thumb as you hand finishes the stroke, this will give you a full range of motion, and make use of all your muscles.
3. Keep practicing.
4. Most important...Have Fun. :banana:

Herb
April 20th, 2011, 12:02 AM
Thanks. I had to see what I needed to dodge but the head position is in fact something I have been struggling with. Looking ahead has always felt more natural to me.
I hadn't heard the finishing the stroke one yet so I'll try to focus on that.

knelson
April 20th, 2011, 12:05 AM
I agree with James about your head position. Obviously in a hotel pool you've got to look up to see the wall, but when you're in a normal pool be sure to look at the bottom, even when coming into a turn (this takes some practice).

As I mentioned in the other thread, and the video seems to confirm it, your legs really aren't contributing much. You do have a nice smooth stroke, though. There certainly aren't any major flaws you need to correct.

Herb
April 20th, 2011, 12:16 AM
Is it hard to post a video from a camcorder/mini-dv?

That's the only other video I ever had of me swimming from a year or two ago and it would be interesting to see the progress I have made (at least to me). I'm afraid to even look at these at first but I think I actually straightened some things out.

knelson
April 20th, 2011, 12:20 AM
Is it hard to post a video from a camcorder/mini-dv?

It isn't if you have a Firewire port on your computer. That's the connection my mini-dv camcorder had, anyway. Well, actually it's not easy. First you've got to import the raw footage and use software on your computer to convert it to a video format youtube will recognize.

rtodd
April 20th, 2011, 08:01 AM
Head should be down more. When you are turning to breathe, the water line was at your ear and both eyes were out of water. Water should be hitting the crown of your head during breathing with one goggle submerged. Only look forward 1-2 feet.

Try spending more time swimming on your side and less time flat on the water. As someone mentioned, finishing your stroke will help with this.

Overall it looks pretty good. I'm sure going under a minute is achievable. You are not running out of time. There is some guy out there that showed you can swim under 50 at age 65!

Herb
April 20th, 2011, 09:15 PM
Another bad habit that I think you can see a couple glimpses of in this video is that I have a natural tendency to split my fingers way apart. It is likely usually worse as I was trying to look good for the camera here over such a short distance.
How much does this slow one down?

On the head thing, this video might not be too far from the truth. But why is it that I feel more resistance when I put my head straight down? I guess it is all in my head? It also makes me lose the feel for the water and the high elbow and hand entry that I have worked hard towards improving.

Herb
April 20th, 2011, 09:17 PM
It isn't if you have a Firewire port on your computer. That's the connection my mini-dv camcorder had, anyway. Well, actually it's not easy. First you've got to import the raw footage and use software on your computer to convert it to a video format youtube will recognize.

Looks like I don't have this port so this isn't happening. oh well.

Jimbosback
April 20th, 2011, 09:27 PM
Looks like I don't have this port so this isn't happening. oh well.

Some cameras also have USB. Check the camera.

shahboz
April 20th, 2011, 09:38 PM
Most modern video cameras, DSLRs and even "point and shoot" still cameras with video use SD cards... you can connect via usb with a reader or with the cable. If you have an iPhone/itouch, Android or Flip type camera its a straight shot into the computer via the usb port. Firewire 400 is kinda dead (800 is not) as is DV tape for video.

You can get really good quality video on the cheap that is easily portable.

Herb
April 20th, 2011, 10:09 PM
Well, I do have this bonus video of me swimming fly.


YouTube - MOV01884

__steve__
April 21st, 2011, 06:16 PM
I recent SFF fly tip is to swim it flatter. Engaging the kick is also mentioned frequently by top fly authorities here.

Nice pool, is there a bar?

larsoda
April 21st, 2011, 06:58 PM
It looks to me like you're doing a thumbs first entry and you're crossing over with your right arm.

A tighter streamline off the walls would help, too. I'm not sure if the loose arms were a safety measure for the kids.

Herb
April 21st, 2011, 09:15 PM
It looks to me like you're doing a thumbs first entry and you're crossing over with your right arm.

A tighter streamline off the walls would help, too. I'm not sure if the loose arms were a safety measure for the kids.

Dang, I have been working for the last couple months on fixing the thumbs first entry. I do wish I could post the older video because then I might get some props on how much progress I have made. It used to be much worse along with swinging arms and an even flatter body. But I guess it doesn't matter because this is where I am at now. But I have been finger tip dragging for over a year and I am very pleasantly surprised with this result as I think I might have pulled it off. Tell me, how does my elbow recovery look?

Cross over - that is an astute observation. Do I need a wider entry outside the shoulder or just focus on a wider pull away from my mid line?

As for the streamline, you are probably right but there was a bench under water at the ends, etc.. Those are my kids making a cameo crossing by.

And yes Steve, there was a full bar right behind me along with the Atlantic Ocean at Myrtle Beach. There was another pool below that I estimated was actually 35 yards long and I could get a decent workout in if I got there by 8 am. But I'm a long way from there now.

larsoda
April 22nd, 2011, 10:22 AM
Dang, I have been working for the last couple months on fixing the thumbs first entry. I do wish I could post the older video because then I might get some props on how much progress I have made. It used to be much worse along with swinging arms and an even flatter body. But I guess it doesn't matter because this is where I am at now. But I have been finger tip dragging for over a year and I am very pleasantly surprised with this result as I think I might have pulled it off. Tell me, how does my elbow recovery look?

Cross over - that is an astute observation. Do I need a wider entry outside the shoulder or just focus on a wider pull away from my mid line?

As for the streamline, you are probably right but there was a bench under water at the ends, etc.. Those are my kids making a cameo crossing by.

And yes Steve, there was a full bar right behind me along with the Atlantic Ocean at Myrtle Beach. There was another pool below that I estimated was actually 35 yards long and I could get a decent workout in if I got there by 8 am. But I'm a long way from there now.

The recovery looks good - high elbows & good rotation. I thought I was imagining the thumbs-first because the rest looked so smooth. "pause" is a great feature for checking details. I like paddles for feeling this & working to correct it.

I think your entry is OK. I think the worst crossover was when you were breathing to your left. My guess is that's your less-preferred breathing side and you're lifting your head more (or over-rotating) which is putting downward pressure on your arm & throwing it out of line.

It will probably be less pronounced if you lower your head, as others have suggested, and rotate less as you breathe.

I've got the same issue with my left arm & had to start chanting "wide" when my left hand went in to keep it from swinging over the line. After a couple weeks I didn't have to chant anymore. (but i've still got a tiny "s" wiggle that I can't seem to get rid of)

Herb
April 22nd, 2011, 07:03 PM
larsoda, you are exactly right - I have been a right side breather forever and would still breath right in a race. But in the last couple of months I sucked it up and started breathing bilaterally in workouts. This is something I could only accomplish by finally learning to exhale more which eased the tension or else something magical just happened and I suddenly have more air. But because of all the years of right side breathing my left arm was really messed up, something I could feel even without video.
The bilateral breathing in practice I think did help me gain a lot more symmetry in my stroke. Even though it still feels a little awkward, I was curious if my form could actually be better when breathing on my left because I hadn't developed all the bad habits. ...But it appears this is not the case.
But I'm a little confused. The right side breathing I think caused a lack of rotation to the left side which caused my terrible left arm stroke and thumb entry. But it sounds like you are saying I am now over-rotating to the left which is causing the cross-over with the right arm? I know when I breath to the left I feel this extra hitch of effort to get my mouth out of the water so maybe that has something to do with it.

larsoda
April 22nd, 2011, 10:23 PM
But I'm a little confused. The right side breathing I think caused a lack of rotation to the left side which caused my terrible left arm stroke and thumb entry. But it sounds like you are saying I am now over-rotating to the left which is causing the cross-over with the right arm? I know when I breath to the left I feel this extra hitch of effort to get my mouth out of the water so maybe that has something to do with it.

It's that extra hitch I was referring to. Speculation on my part whether that hitch is over-rotation or lifting your head. I'd work on the head position first, then move on to reducing the head movement when getting a breath. Maybe do some side kicking on your right side with your right arm extended to find a comfortable, low breathing position.

Dan
(looking for a better username...)

taruky
April 24th, 2011, 07:24 PM
Herb, I recently bought and watched the Swimsmooth catch masterclass DVD. Although I'm on a masters swim team I try to get help wherever I can and I have always been a fan of the Swimsmooth stuff. Anyhow, one of the tricks the guy talks about is concentrating on your middle finger on hand entry. In other words, let your middle finger be the guide and have it enter about 1.5 feet directly in front of your shoulder. This also helps with the thumb first problem. The problem with crossing over is that it makes the catch on that side more difficult. Another problem it causes is some wiggle in the body position.

Check out this video of one of the swimmers in his DVD, Jono Van Hazel (Athens Australian team). Some really good footage of his alignment and hand entry. Obviously the actual DVD has better footage, but this is pretty good.
YouTube - Swim Smooth: What Is An Efficient Freestyle Stroke? Part 2

Herb
April 27th, 2011, 10:40 PM
I poked around the swimsmooth web site and got a couple of good tips. Maybe I will order that video if it is worth it.
They are very against dead spots in the stroke, something I have also been guilty of and figured I was an "over-glider". But I think I am making some progress.
I greatly appreciate all the tips from all you experts. Video analysis it seems can be greatly beneficial. Like my diet for so many years I operated under ignorance is bliss, but the pictures don't lie.
While I was pleasantly surprised with my freestyle form overall, I can see why my fly times are not that great - I pretty much suck.

shyswimmer
April 28th, 2011, 01:06 AM
I was thinking about posting my own video as well but it looks like I have a lot to work with from these great advices.