PDA

View Full Version : Advice: Aquablade or Fusion2? Men's jammer



Popeye.Tom
April 20th, 2011, 03:39 PM
Hi all,

I've searched and read the various threads, here and elsewhere on technical suits, and Ande's tech suit history thread. (I think Ande was the originator of that thread!) I didn't find any where someone voiced a clear preference between these two older technology suits. (I hope this doesn't end up a duplicate - my original post doesn't seem to have made it up. I apologize if it does duplicate!)

My daughter has started swimming age group and some of the USA Swimming meets have open age entry, depending on the host team. Her meet April 30/May 1 has open age so I've got myself in there for some 100s and a 200fr. SCY.

I am curious if someone with experience with both the TYR Fusion2 and Speedo Aquablade men's jammer can share any preference or recommendation between these two. I'd like to give a technical suit a try, but I'm not ready to spend $120 to $WOW! on a latest version technical suit.

What do you think? Do you think there is much of any difference between these two? I'll probably get a Yinga as well, but I know that SO can get them to me before the meet.

Any thoughts or advice is certainly appreciated! See if this old curmudgeon can get any help from a fresh suit and surprise the your whipper-snappers! :cane:

Cheers,
Popeye

Dolphin 2
April 21st, 2011, 12:36 AM
Spending an excess amount of money on a "technical suit" (or a "jammer") is one of the biggest rip offs of the century.

Too many swimmers are placing emphasis on their suit when what they really need to do is focus on their skill.

The bottom line (no pun intended): Just buy a few plain old style (AKA - the Mark Spitz era) men's briefs then work to improve your skill (and you'll save lots of $$$ too)!!! :agree:

D2

pwb
April 21st, 2011, 02:59 AM
Try a Yingfa instead from www.swimdownhill.com. It's a better suit and cheaper.

The Aquablade and Fusion2 are fine enough suits, but they both wore out quickly for me and had little to no compression.

jaadams1
April 21st, 2011, 01:23 PM
I was using a TYR Fusion 2 jammer last year, and "upgraded" to a Yingfa this year, and love it. The TYR suit was fine too, just more expensive, though not that much. I'm all about the $$$$, and Yingfa make my wallet happy. I just got another couple ordered. He has another suit for the men that is on sale now for $28. :applaud: www.swimdownhill.com (http://www.swimdownhill.com)

orca1946
April 21st, 2011, 06:31 PM
Is you speed/time that close that a TECH suit will turn it into a win????

Popeye.Tom
April 21st, 2011, 10:26 PM
Thanks all for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it.

Heck, I'm old enough that I had to spend much $ on the very first "speed suits" that came out in the mid 70's...HS coach required it of all qualified for states. (Bloomington, IN that year - got to see Doc running morning workout for IU team!) Relatively speaking, those were like buying top of the line technical suit today if adjusted for inflation.

So, rip off or not, the SwimOutlet price on either of these two is not that bad! I would definitely agree with you Dolphin2 that the $WOW expensive suits are silly...is my skill worthy of a $50 suit, I don't know.

I'm 52, this will be my first meet in like, well longer than my age addled mind can remember! But, I turned a 56.8, 100fr SCY off the blocks in December, by myself in our slow (too shallow and too warm) YMCA pool (time by daughter's coach - 1 stop watch). I used that as my seed time for this meet, it is USA Swimming sanctioned and not Masters. I'd like to break a 55. Will a tech suit turn it into a win, I don't know - but I definitely needed a new suit so why not use it to psych myself up!

Hey PWB & JAAdams1...I went to swimdownhill after reading that thread and sent George an email asking about estimated delivery date. I'm working along, trying to get some drawings out (engineer) when my phone rings, IT'S GEORGE! He was on his way to ship some orders, called, got my address and got mine out that afternoon. Now, that's service...and we also had a great time chatting swimming.

So, I still need to get new training suits, but I'll have a Yingfa for the meet. It'll be fun, 100 back, 100 free, 50 free and 200 free. The only ones I really care about are the 100 and 200 free. I do think I can pull a 55 on the 100, but will be happy with anything around a 2:05 in the 200.

Thanks again to all of you who did reply. I may brag on May 2, but more than likely I'll just go back to my 3500 yard days and keep my mouth shut!

Cheers,
Popeye

Popeye.Tom
April 21st, 2011, 10:27 PM
Is you speed/time that close that a TECH suit will turn it into a win????

Probably not....but then I'm not shaving either! :afraid:

:chug:

poolraat
April 22nd, 2011, 09:25 AM
I ordered a suit for me and my son from George and within 15 minutes of placing my order got an email from him saying it was ready to ship. Great service! Now if USPS does their part we should have them before we leave for Mesa.

Speedo
April 22nd, 2011, 09:39 PM
The tech suits injected the thought that ALL suits have some measurable difference in peformance- but no one can even show a temporal difference between a jammer and a brief. You'd be hard pressed to quantify the time difference between a race with a brief and one with a jammer- much less, between 2 different jammers. Get a durable pair that fits. Snugly. I use a Tyr Tracer LT and have used it for 2 seasons so far- $100.

Popeye.Tom
April 26th, 2011, 02:24 PM
~You'd be hard pressed to quantify the time difference between a race with a brief and one with a jammer- much less, between 2 different jammers. Get a durable pair that fits. Snugly. I use a Tyr Tracer LT and have used it for 2 seasons so far- $100.

I think you're right about that, and I agree. I probably should have been more clear in my thoughts. I do think I was more interested in people's opinions and preferences regarding which fit or stayed together best! To that end, your experience with the Tracer LT is really good. The consumer reviews at Swim Outlet have a random sprinkling of seam & QC issues, but do seem to be rather equally spread around.

All that aside, I get the judge the Yingfa for durability and quality of seams. The suit arrived yesterday. It does appear different in that the seams are sewn with a wide serger stitch and bright white thread against the black fabric, rather than black thread to hide. I haven't swum with it yet, but did put it on and it fits nicely, a tiny bit lower on the hip than I'm used to, but I don't think that's the cut but the size. I wear a 30 in poly training suits and I ordered these at L (28-30) for the extra snugness.

I hope it holds up well. I know some of the suits the kids on my daughter's team have tried have only lasted a two day meet before threads in the fabric let loose and the suit was blown. :eeew:

If it helps my head at all, great, I'll take my positive psych wherever I can get it! But, it does fit nicer than both my The Finals jammers that are pretty shot now. Time for new training suits. I do have my doubts that the suit, especially on guys with the latest FINA hip to knee restrictions can make much difference.

What would be interesting would be a scientific study on the relative gain from the different suits. I don't think that given the turbulent flow field (I have a degree in aerodynamics - I can't help but talk that way sometimes) around a human body, at the surface, rotating, stroking and breathing there could be really much benefit from the area of material we're talking about. The potential for gain is certainly larger for a woman, simply due to the larger surface area covered.

>>Warning: I'm going off on a tangent! :D <<

I would think that a test would have to be idealized...use a manikin. There's too much variation from swim to swim with a person, so the number of data points for each suit would be really high to average out to something meaningful. Even some type of double blind wouldn't help the variation in performance that we all have.

Set up a towing system, draw the manikin under water (1 to 1-1/2m ) in a streamlined position. Removes surface effects and I would assume maximizes the benefit from the "engineered" suit. Tow at a few different speeds (speed/length > Reynolds number & all that) and measure the tension in the tow. Lower tension = reduced drag. Reduce this to a dimensionless coefficient > co-relate back to suit size and bang, a perfect formula for calculating time gain for an event wearing suit X! NOT! (But it would still be interesting and fun to do - Yeah, I'm a geek!)

OK, who wants to pay for a bunch of suits and help me build a neutrally buoyant manikin? :bolt:

OK, enough of that.

Have a great week, one and all!

Popeye

Popeye.Tom
May 2nd, 2011, 05:47 PM
Well, I had some fun at the meet! First meet in like 14 or 15 years...I was telling people 20 years, but I think the lower numbers are more correct. (I simply cannot remember when it was that we lived in Spokane :cane:!

My daughter had a blast! She wasn't happy with me for entering her in all 100s on Saturday, one of which being back stroke, but she didn't get DQ'd and picked up ribbons in each event. Good experience for her (11-12)

I was told there'd be some other masters, but I was it. Funny looking at heat sheet and seeing
Swimmer L1 16
Swimmer L2 17...
Swimmer L6 52

I was hoping my seed times would get me next to some kids to pace by. This didn't work! For my 200 Fr I was next to a kid that turned a 1:52 high school, he dogged it at 'only' a 1:56. Had fun though.

In order of events:
100 back seed: 1:10.25 time: 1:08.25
100 free seed: 56.80 time: 55.15
50 free seed: 25.55 time: 25.00
200 free seed: 2:05.25 time: 2:05.69

Did the Yingfa help, well certainly not because it greatly reduced drag 'cause of its high tech nature. BUT, it did fit and feel nice. I liked it in the water - really didn't notice it on at all and I cannot say that about my worn out The Finals jammers.

Thank you again to all who took the time to make suit comments and recommendations!

Cheers :chug:

PT