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View Full Version : Q for those who swim the 400IM both SCY and LCM



want2beafish
June 6th, 2011, 04:14 PM
I've sort of decided to swim the 400IM at Auburn. I've never swum it LCM before (and only once SCY), but will have twice before LCM Nats. I won't have a LCM time before I register, though. Since it seems as if sandbagging is a hot topic now, I want to make sure I enter a fairly realistic time -- but I don't want to end up out of my league either. My question is -- how do your actual LCM times in the 400IM compare to your converted SCY times? For the record, my 200IM SCY/LCM conversion is fairly accurate. Not sure if the same will apply to the 400IM, though.

Now I just hope that Swimosaur doesn't read this, as I will then be committed to swimming the LCM 400 IM. :)

That Guy
June 6th, 2011, 04:29 PM
The first time I swam the 400 LCM IM, I used a time converter to guesstimate an entry time, and I did not swim anywhere near as fast as the conversion tool predicted. I was something like 9 or 10 seconds slower. I think the main reason for that is that breaststroke is my weakest stroke by far, and in long course I have to swim far more breaststroke than I do in short course, where I can use the additional pullouts to hide. So if you're awesome at breaststroke then this might not be an issue for you, but if you're like me then expect to go slower than the conversion tools predict.

want2beafish
June 6th, 2011, 04:39 PM
The first time I swam the 400 LCM IM, I used a time converter to guesstimate an entry time, and I did not swim anywhere near as fast as the conversion tool predicted. I was something like 9 or 10 seconds slower. I think the main reason for that is that breaststroke is my weakest stroke by far, and in long course I have to swim far more breaststroke than I do in short course, where I can use the additional pullouts to hide. So if you're awesome at breaststroke then this might not be an issue for you, but if you're like me then expect to go slower than the conversion tools predict.

Thanks so much! Just the advice I was looking for. My strengths are back and free so I will round up a little.

gdanner
June 6th, 2011, 04:39 PM
I don't know many people who swim better in LCM than their conversion from SCY would suggest. My 400 LCM best time is 6 seconds slower than my conversion. However, my SCY was under college training and LCM was club team. So in a different environment it's hard to know for certain. I would definitely go a little slower if I was you.

want2beafish
June 6th, 2011, 04:41 PM
I don't know many people who swim better in LCM than their conversion from SCY would suggest. My 400 LCM best time is 6 seconds slower than my conversion. However, my SCY was under college training and LCM was club team. So in a different environment it's hard to know for certain. I would definitely go a little slower if I was you.

Thanks, very helpful! Seems like a consensus then.

pwb
June 6th, 2011, 04:41 PM
The first time I swam the 400 LCM IM, I used a time converter to guesstimate an entry time, and I did not swim anywhere near as fast as the conversion tool predicted. I was something like 9 or 10 seconds slower. I think the main reason for that is that breaststroke is my weakest stroke by far, and in long course I have to swim far more breaststroke than I do in short course, where I can use the additional pullouts to hide. So if you're awesome at breaststroke then this might not be an issue for you, but if you're like me then expect to go slower than the conversion tools predict.My SCY time done at the end of January was 4:18 something, which, using the Swimming World Time Converter, should have been around 4:58/4:59. I swam a LCM 400 IM about 6 weeks later, was still in good shape, felt good, etc. (e.g., all conditions essentially the same) and was 5:06+. At the same meet, my 200 LCM was 2 seconds slower than the SCY-LCM converter said it should be.

Now, your SCY/LCM 200 conversion works, so maybe you don't need to add 8-10 seconds, but I generally don't trust the SCY->LCM conversions for me ... but I also rarely train LCM so I'm generally not conditioned well enough for racing LCM.

want2beafish
June 6th, 2011, 05:09 PM
Now, your SCY/LCM 200 conversion works, so maybe you don't need to add 8-10 seconds, but I generally don't trust the SCY->LCM conversions for me ... but I also rarely train LCM so I'm generally not conditioned well enough for racing LCM.

I'm a LOT slower than that, so percentage-wise I'd probably need to add more time. :) I'm 45 (if that makes a difference), and my one and only 400 IM SCY time was 5:38. It felt pretty comfortable, though, as I swam it conservatively. The Swimming World conversion tool puts my time at 6:25, and my iPhone conversion app (for what that's worth) puts my LCM time at 6:17. My current 200 IM LCM time is 2:58. Based on what you all have said and what I'm thinking, 6:30 is a nice, round number. Does that sound reasonable?

That Guy
June 6th, 2011, 05:18 PM
I'm a LOT slower than that, so percentage-wise I'd probably need to add more time. :) I'm 45 (if that makes a difference), and my one and only 400 IM SCY time was 5:38. It felt pretty comfortable, though, as I swam it conservatively. The Swimming World conversion tool puts my time at 6:25, and my iPhone conversion app (for what that's worth) puts my LCM time at 6:17. My current 200 IM LCM time is 2:58. Based on what you all have said and what I'm thinking, 6:30 is a nice, round number. Does that sound reasonable?

yep!

pwb
June 6th, 2011, 05:36 PM
Based on what you all have said and what I'm thinking, 6:30 is a nice, round number. Does that sound reasonable?Yes.

As for all those people on the sandbagging thread who spend waaaaaaaaaaaaayyy too much time worrying about how other people enter their events, ignore them, swim your heart out and have fun.

The 400 IM is a sublime event of beauty and grace ... mixed in with just the right amount of pain.

want2beafish
June 6th, 2011, 05:37 PM
yep!

Thanks!

That means as long as I swim between a 6:11 and a 6:49, I'll still score at least a B+ on the seeding error grading scale. :)

want2beafish
June 6th, 2011, 05:41 PM
Yes.

As for all those people on the sandbagging thread who spend waaaaaaaaaaaaayyy too much time worrying about how other people enter their events, ignore them, swim your heart out and have fun.

The 400 IM is a sublime event of beauty and grace ... mixed in with just the right amount of pain.

Thanks. 6:30 it is, then.

I was intimidated by the 400 IM SCY, and it was way more enjoyable than I ever thought it would be. As soon as the pain started to set in... on to another stroke. By the last 50, it was painful yet almost euphoric at the same time. I'm actually excited to swim it long course. If nothing else, my teenagers may be (secretly) impressed.

pwb
June 6th, 2011, 07:11 PM
I'm actually excited to swim it long course.My only other bits of advice:


try to almost feel like you're loafing that first 50 of fly and then just gently build the 2nd 50 of fly. Even if you're a great butterflier, you want to end the fly with a lot of gas left in the tank.
after that, just build each 100, making sure to take the first 25 to 40 meters of each lap to get into the groove of your stroke before trying to pick up the pace.

jaadams1
June 6th, 2011, 07:47 PM
My only other bits of advice:


try to almost feel like you're loafing that first 50 of fly and then just gently build the 2nd 50 of fly. Even if you're a great butterflier, you want to end the fly with a lot of gas left in the tank.
after that, just build each 100, making sure to take the first 25 to 40 meters of each lap to get into the groove of your stroke before trying to pick up the pace.


I will second that! I've always been a great flyer, and now as a masters swimmer making more attempts in LCM I will second PWBs comment of going very easy on the first 1/2 of the fly. I did it this last weekend and had much better results. Unless you like the lifeguards coming in after you!! :bolt:

As far as the 400 IM, my SCY to LCM conversion is also faster than what I have actually swum. By about 6 seconds in my case.

swimmerb212
June 6th, 2011, 08:09 PM
I'm glad you posted this question! I just did my first 400 IM ever, SCY, in about 6:30. The time converter told me I could do 400 IM LCM in 5:48, which seemed really wrong, so I added a lot of time to that. When it comes to swimming, I'm all freestyle and turns, so I don't see how taking away walls and doubling the distance +10% would make me swim faster.

I'm just hoping I finish the heat in a respectable time compared to everyone else in the heat.

pwolf66
June 6th, 2011, 08:19 PM
I've sort of decided to swim the 400IM at Auburn. I've never swum it LCM before (and only once SCY), but will have twice before LCM Nats. I won't have a LCM time before I register, though. Since it seems as if sandbagging is a hot topic now, I want to make sure I enter a fairly realistic time -- but I don't want to end up out of my league either. My question is -- how do your actual LCM times in the 400IM compare to your converted SCY times? For the record, my 200IM SCY/LCM conversion is fairly accurate. Not sure if the same will apply to the 400IM, though.

Now I just hope that Swimosaur doesn't read this, as I will then be committed to swimming the LCM 400 IM. :)


My advice is to either find someone close to your age in the times database who is close to your yards 400 time and see what thier time is in lcm. Either that or ask your coach to time trial you (if possible) and then I would suggest shaving about 5% from that time to account for the meet affect.

gdanner
June 6th, 2011, 10:03 PM
I'm glad you posted this question! I just did my first 400 IM ever, SCY, in about 6:30. The time converter told me I could do 400 IM LCM in 5:48, which seemed really wrong, so I added a lot of time to that.

Sure you didn't do that in reverse by accident?

6:30 LCM -> 5:41 SCY (close to what you said)

6:30 SCY -> 7:25 LCM

http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/results/conversions.asp

swimshark
June 7th, 2011, 08:00 AM
My only other bits of advice:


try to almost feel like you're loafing that first 50 of fly and then just gently build the 2nd 50 of fly. Even if you're a great butterflier, you want to end the fly with a lot of gas left in the tank.
after that, just build each 100, making sure to take the first 25 to 40 meters of each lap to get into the groove of your stroke before trying to pick up the pace.


I will 3rd this. I do it both SCY and LCM (and SCM). My SCY time is 5:14. My LCM time is 6:01, if that helps at all.

want2beafish
June 7th, 2011, 12:09 PM
My only other bits of advice:


try to almost feel like you're loafing that first 50 of fly and then just gently build the 2nd 50 of fly. Even if you're a great butterflier, you want to end the fly with a lot of gas left in the tank.
after that, just build each 100, making sure to take the first 25 to 40 meters of each lap to get into the groove of your stroke before trying to pick up the pace.


Great advice, thanks! I'm not the strongest butterflier, and the speed of my "loafing" fly is very close to my "fast" fly. I've been working on relaxing fly during sets at practice.


My advice is to either find someone close to your age in the times database who is close to your yards 400 time and see what thier time is in lcm. Either that or ask your coach to time trial you (if possible) and then I would suggest shaving about 5% from that time to account for the meet affect.

Great idea! Thanks!


I will 3rd this. I do it both SCY and LCM (and SCM). My SCY time is 5:14. My LCM time is 6:01, if that helps at all.

That does help, thanks! Nice times, btw!

knelson
June 7th, 2011, 12:31 PM
Great advice, thanks! I'm not the strongest butterflier, and the speed of my "loafing" fly is very close to my "fast" fly. I've been working on relaxing fly during sets at practice.

This is a good idea. Not feeling dead at the end of fly is a good idea in a 400 IM of any format, but especially in long course. That second 50 can feel like a long way!

swimshark
June 7th, 2011, 01:28 PM
That does help, thanks! Nice times, btw!

Thank you. I agree with the others about relaxing during the fly. The more you can save during it, the better you will be on the other legs.

Rykno
June 8th, 2011, 03:21 AM
I don't swim yards, but I can give feedback for my 400 IM conversions for SCM och LCM compared to real life times.

in 2008 I swam tappored and shaved SCM in 5:19.43

in feb 2009 4 weeks before our nationals I swam SCM 5:27,12 and in June 2009 I swam LCM 5:41.34

according to one internet conversion tool there should have only been a 6-7s difference between the two. I had 14s.

there is no converstion table that takes into account you as a swimmer.

not even my 50 br is right. SCM 33.37 according to this site
http://www.swimhsa.org/forms/timeconvert.html should be 34.37, but my best 50 LCM is 34.57. maybe those 0.2s was in the start or indoor outdoor effect.

want2beafish
June 8th, 2011, 04:06 PM
I don't swim yards, but I can give feedback for my 400 IM conversions for SCM och LCM compared to real life times.

in 2008 I swam tappored and shaved SCM in 5:19.43

in feb 2009 4 weeks before our nationals I swam SCM 5:27,12 and in June 2009 I swam LCM 5:41.34

according to one internet conversion tool there should have only been a 6-7s difference between the two. I had 14s.

there is no converstion table that takes into account you as a swimmer.

not even my 50 br is right. SCM 33.37 according to this site
http://www.swimhsa.org/forms/timeconvert.html should be 34.37, but my best 50 LCM is 34.57. maybe those 0.2s was in the start or indoor outdoor effect.

Thanks for the feedback! It all helps!

want2beafish
June 26th, 2011, 08:12 PM
Update -- I swam the 400IM today at a meet, and will swim it once more before Nationals. For me, the time conversion was within 0.06 seconds (using the Swimming World time conversion utility: http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/results/conversions.asp). Not sure that has ever happened to me with a conversion before.

I guess I'm a better LCM swimmer... or my IM turns suck. Probably a combination of both. :)

Thanks for the advice!

orca1946
June 27th, 2011, 12:13 AM
SC turns are my friends!!! Great to hear about your time.:applaud:

pwb
June 27th, 2011, 01:40 AM
Update -- I swam the 400IM today at a meet, and will swim it once more before Nationals. For me, the time conversion was within 0.06 seconds (using the Swimming World time conversion utility: http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/results/conversions.asp). Not sure that has ever happened to me with a conversion before.

I guess I'm a better LCM swimmer... or my IM turns suck. Probably a combination of both. :)

Thanks for the advice!
Right on! Rock it again when you swim it again.

swimshark
June 27th, 2011, 09:14 AM
Good job Kristin!

want2beafish
June 27th, 2011, 02:40 PM
SC turns are my friends!!! Great to hear about your time.:applaud:


Right on! Rock it again when you swim it again.


Good job Kristin!

Thanks... I was just happy that I survived and swam close to the time I had put down. And dare I say... it was fun?!

pwb
June 27th, 2011, 03:50 PM
And dare I say... it was fun?!In my books, there is no better race to swim. It's my favorite event by far ... even when it's too painful for words, even when I'm gasping for air so much I want to skip and underwater breast pullout, even when I suck wind and blow my time. It's an event of beauty and complexity unmatched by any other.

swimshark
June 27th, 2011, 08:28 PM
In my books, there is no better race to swim. It's my favorite event by far ... even when it's too painful for words, even when I'm gasping for air so much I want to skip and underwater breast pullout, even when I suck wind and blow my time. It's an event of beauty and complexity unmatched by any other.

I agree. And I get happy during the race if the feeling of wanting to throw up happens after back stroke :)