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belly_hippie
October 8th, 2003, 06:30 PM
I saw this article online and it really dampen my spirit since swimming is my favorite sport and I am trying to loose weight at the same time. Any comment??



SWIMMING IS NOT GOOD FOR WEIGHT LOSS

If you want to lose weight, lower cholesterol, or help to control diabetes, swimming is better than nothing, but not that much better (1).

A recent report from the University of Colorado shows that obese people who start a supervised swimming program do not lower their fasting blood sugar, insulin, total cholesterol, good HDL cholesterol and bad LDL cholesterol levels. They also did not lose weight or redistribute their body fat (2).

These results are different from people who start land-based sports such as running, aerobic dancing, racquetball and cycling. When you exercise on land, your body is surrounded by air which insulates you, causing your body to retain heat and your body temperature to rise for up to 18 hours after you finish exercising. Increased body temperature speeds up your metabolism and helps you to lose weight and lower cholesterol. On the other hand, when you swim, your body is surrounded by water which is an excellent conductor of heat away from your body, preventing your body temperature from rising. If you want to lose weight by swimming, the best way is to do it is by using a swimming machine on dry land.

I'm Dr. Gabe Mirkin on Fitness.

1) H Tanaka, DR Bassett, ET Howley. Effects of swim training on body weight, carbohydrate

exrunner
October 8th, 2003, 07:08 PM
I think it is a complete myth that swimming is not good for weight loss. I myself lost almost 30 pounds by swimming and limiting calories. And I happen to have had my blood lipid profile done recently, and the improvement was profound. Resting heart rate and blood pressure are also excellent.

The truth is, you can gain weight, lose weight, or stay the same depending on your calorie intake versus calorie expenditure. Swimming is superb for burning up calories, and is excellent exercise for many other reasons.

The participants in the study simply ate too much to lose weight and to see improvement in their lipids.

I believe it is also false that the "heat sink" effect of the pool works against swimmers who want to lose weight. In fact, some people reverse the argument, saying that drinking ice water causes you to lose weight -- believing that the body is burning additional calories to warm up from the ice. The heat sink and ice water arguments contradict each other, and in fact both are false: our metabolism is not driven by the ambient temperature. We're warm-blooded, forgoshsakes! Sure, there are tiny, marginal effects (e.g., if you're very cold, you'll shiver, which expends some energy). But the effect on weight loss is utterly negligible.

jennyfer80
October 8th, 2003, 07:11 PM
soooooooo.............that doesn't really mean much to me. i'd swim anyways, no matter what!

you can lose weight swimming. were the people in the study swimming 2x day, 4,000 in the morning and 6-7000 at night? i kept my weight constant swimming that much and eating about 3000 cal/day. i believe you can lose weight if you decrease your calorie intake and increase your yardage and effort a bit (i don't know how much you are swimming). doing some dryland 3x wk wouldn't hurt either.

i had a friend lose a ton of weight over the summer, about 30 pounds by eating sensibley and swimming about 3000yds 5x wk.

also how many people were in the study? how much did they eat? what was there weight/bmi/muscle mass before they started the swimming program? how long did they participate in the program for? how much swimming did they do? what did they get their heart rate up to?

if it's one thing i've learned from school and being a nursing student-- never take a research article at face value. if this article was worth anything, it would have answered all of those questions above.

valhallan
October 8th, 2003, 08:38 PM
Swimming has always left me with a healthy appetite. No, make that an abnormal appetite. Picture Jethro from the Beverly Hill Billies. I used to brown bag my lunch with a *shopping* bag. Whether or not you're dropping the weight all depends on the amount of calories you intake. Don't be mistaken that all the back and forth action in the water isn't fat burning just because there doesn't appear to be any sweating involved.

Bon Appetito!

dorothyrd
October 8th, 2003, 10:38 PM
It is all about calories in, calories out. If swimming helps you burn more calories than you eat, you will lose weight. I personally have lost 35-40 pounds this year and I know swimming helps. I do other things, such as weight lift and some aerobics, but I am in the water 3-4 times a week, 2500-3500 yards each time. When I take a break from swimming, I gain weight if I don't cut my calories. That tells me swimming helps me lose, and helps me maintain my loss.

I know age group kids who struggle with their weight. When they get back into the water after a break, they slim down.

Conniekat8
October 8th, 2003, 11:45 PM
I don't know about their studies, but I can assure you that my personal experience and example is contrary to their study.

Besides, no exercise alone (not combined with proper diet) will do a whole lot for weight loss, if the old eating habits are maintained.

Dominick Aielloeaver
October 9th, 2003, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by belly_hippie
I saw this article online and it really dampen my spirit since swimming is my favorite sport and I am trying to loose weight at the same time. Any comment??



SWIMMING IS NOT GOOD FOR WEIGHT LOSS

If you want to lose weight, lower cholesterol, or help to control diabetes, swimming is better than nothing, but not that much better (1).

A recent report from the University of Colorado shows that obese people who start a supervised swimming program do not lower their fasting blood sugar, insulin, total cholesterol, good HDL cholesterol and bad LDL cholesterol levels. They also did not lose weight or redistribute their body fat (2).

These results are different from people who start land-based sports such as running, aerobic dancing, racquetball and cycling. When you exercise on land, your body is surrounded by air which insulates you, causing your body to retain heat and your body temperature to rise for up to 18 hours after you finish exercising. Increased body temperature speeds up your metabolism and helps you to lose weight and lower cholesterol. On the other hand, when you swim, your body is surrounded by water which is an excellent conductor of heat away from your body, preventing your body temperature from rising. If you want to lose weight by swimming, the best way is to do it is by using a swimming machine on dry land.

I'm Dr. Gabe Mirkin on Fitness.

1) H Tanaka, DR Bassett, ET Howley. Effects of swim training on body weight, carbohydrate

Dominick Aielloeaver
October 9th, 2003, 12:50 AM
I can tell you that swimming alone might help you lose some weight, along with some dieting. But it will not give you the restance to have good firm muscle. As we get older ,we lose our musclarty. Yes swimming is very good cardio, but swimming should not be the only form of excerise. there should be a good portion of restance excerise. I personaly use swimming for cardio, free hand and weights . For restance. And a senible diet.:cool: ;)

Light
October 9th, 2003, 01:34 AM
From my personal experience, swimming has helped me to go from 200 lb to 175 lb in about half a year. I try to swim about 5 days a week, 1 hour at a time... However, due to my stamina, I actually only swim about half of that time... The other time I am simply resting... :)

I find that along with swimming, and with no change in my diet (quantity and quality, however I am not a big snack/sweet person, so this is a major thing I guess), swimming is really effective for losing weight.

The reason why I think some ppl might not lose weight in swimming is:

a. Some experience a dramatic increase in appetite, and thus food consumption as well. I am lucky in that currently that doesn't happen for me. However, I remembered when I swam as a kid, the appetite definitely went up... Others think that swimming justifies more consumption of food that will lead to weight gain...excessive sweets...etc

b. because of the weight/size issue, some find it discouraging to swim in the water because of the tremendous amount of effort it takes to overcome the friction/drag, particulary if one is a beginner in swimming. Therefore, the person in question might not do, or want to do all that much when he/she is in the water, or rests too often, or both.

my 2 cents... :)

Courteous Swimmer
October 9th, 2003, 02:11 AM
We've been over this many times. No one can deny the fact that swimming burns calories. And that's what weight loss is about. It's a game of burning more calories than you consume.

One thing I've noticed at the pool. Swimmers who train in intervals look ten times better than those who do endless laps with an emphasis on freestyle/front crawl. Sometimes, when I see someone entering the pool, I can tell how they're going to swim. Lean people usually prefer intervals. Heavier, less muscular people with a gut, usually prefer a more continuous style with less intensity, and always swim freestyle. Their buoyancy comes in handy.

I'm starting to think that if you perform intervals, including intervals of sprints, followed by cool-down periods, you'll burn more fat, and build more muscle than by just going up and down the pool.

Right now, I'm cutting back on swimming due to time constraints in my life. Here's my current 3-day a week workout:

Day one: 30-min cardio

Day two: Swim one mile

Day three: 20-min cardio and one-hour weights

I have to admit, I look and feel better doing this workout. But I'll start hitting the pool twice a week by next year, when my job gives me more time.

dorothyrd
October 9th, 2003, 07:30 AM
I do a little of both, some days intervals, other days long continuous swims. I agree intervals seem to boast fitness, but doing them day after day is not a good thing.

As far as resistant training, yes, I think EVERYONE needs to add some form of resistant training. That is key to keeping weight off. Build the muscle to burn the calories. I think swimming leans out those muscles and makes them look nicer!

swimsum
October 9th, 2003, 08:48 AM
Don't show that article to the 35 pounds I've lost or my present cholesterol test results. I only made very minor diet changes ... 1) less fat and 2) nothing but water for 2 hours before bed. That with swimming 3 or 4 times a week, 1 hour apeice, lowered my bad cholesterol and raised the good very nicely in the first year and by the end of year two I had dropped a total of 30 pounds also. My weight is now just fine (I might like to drop another 5 or so). ... that is to say I didn't have MAJOR overweight issues.

My massage therapist says my muscle tone is really good. I'm 43 and don't do any other exercise aside from life (house and yard work, bike with my 6 year old, walk to and from the car).

Keep up the swimming everyone!!!!

jerrycat
October 9th, 2003, 10:07 AM
That article is a load of crap. If people weren't stuffing Krispie Kremes in their mouth, then they would loose weight.

And that water temperature stuff is a load too.

How many times have you seen the same people at the gym, busitng their butts religiously, only to never make a physical change? We all see it all of the time. It's because their diets stink!

That doctor that wrote that article is a quack job.



:rolleyes:

jane
October 9th, 2003, 10:19 AM
The theory that swimming does not lead to weight loss is popular. However, many of the studies that claim to show this do not really use swim training but leisurely swimming. It would be interesting to review the study this article references and see what sort of swimming the participants did. I'm sure it was nothing close to any of the workouts posted on this site.
It would also be interesting to see a study that started with out of shape former swimmers and returned them to regular, high level training. The results would probably show changes as many of the posters in this thread have noted. The number of calories burned in a workout is much different for 3000 yards with intervals and a 500 swim in 30 minutes.

Fritz
October 9th, 2003, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by jane
The theory that swimming does not lead to weight loss is popular. However, many of the studies that claim to show this do not really use swim training but leisurely swimming. It would be interesting to review the study this article references and see what sort of swimming the participants did. I'm sure it was nothing close to any of the workouts posted on this site.
It would also be interesting to see a study that started with out of shape former swimmers and returned them to regular, high level training. The results would probably show changes as many of the posters in this thread have noted. The number of calories burned in a workout is much different for 3000 yards with intervals and a 500 swim in 30 minutes.

I'm in the former swimmer that gained weight category. When I got back in the water 5 years ago, I weighed just over 200 pounds. I pretty quickly got down to around 165 and I've managed to keep in the 165-175 pound range. I didn't conciously change my eating habits but I certainly changed my exercise habit. I don't run at all. I swim on average 4 times per week for a total of around 20,000 yards. People can lose weight swimming but just like anything else, it takes patience, time and effort.

Edward The Head
October 9th, 2003, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Fritz


I'm in the former swimmer that gained weight category. When I got back in the water 5 years ago, I weighed just over 200 pounds. I pretty quickly got down to around 165 and I've managed to keep in the 165-175 pound range.

I'm almost like you, though I started out around 215 or so. Now three years later I dropped down to 176 as of yesterday. Actually I've been loosing too much weight I think as I keep getting smaller. About the only real diet change I made was to stop drinkng beer, and now to cut back on the sweets. I don't eat many fruits/veggies even though I should and eat a ton of carbs.

There is no way that swimming will not help you lose weight, unless you are just floating around in the pool. They really should come study the people who really do swim to find out how many calories we use in a normal workout.

Phil Arcuni
October 9th, 2003, 02:41 PM
My experience is very much like Fritz's. I went from 185 to 170, with considerable redistribution of weight from fat to muscle. My diet actually got worse, as I use my swimming to regain the beer-a-day habit that I had to give up, and I am less restrictive of snacks than I used to be.

My workouts are relatively intense, interval workouts, about 4-5/wk and 15,000+ yds/wk. My heart rate regularly gets above 180/min, and I am 45 years old. Lap swimming is a sure way to increase appetite.

Kevin in MD
October 9th, 2003, 03:11 PM
I've seen it bandied about wuite often that we lose less weight in the water due to the water taking away the excess heat. I've also seen it used to explain why most folks heart rates don't get as high in the water. (I've seen other things too.)

But I haven't yet seen the link between the heat loss and weight loss tested.

This is a good example of this, the study showed no weight loss in subjects. That's all well and good but from out of nowhere here comes the idea that this is due to heat loads. Nothing else to back it up; it's just tacked on the end and left for us to accept.

I personally don't buy it.

swimsum
October 9th, 2003, 03:30 PM
I guess this should come as no surprise to us. After all, so many of us have complained in one fashion or other about those people who occupy the pool without exercising ... water arobs who don't work up a sweat probably don't lose much weight and it appears from my pool and all our posts that they outnumber the harder exercising contingent 10 or 20 to one.

mattson
October 9th, 2003, 04:10 PM
Individual examples are fine, but I think it would be more useful if we can determine where the studies went wrong. (And if they didn't, then that is important!)

I decided to go looking for the articles cited. The library I went to does not carry those journals. The full articles are available on the web, but for a hefty fee. :( I am going to make some judgements based on what information I have (the abstracts). If someone else has the entire article, hopefully they will comment.
1- Original article (http://www.drmirkin.com/archive/7208.html)
2- Colorado study in 1997, abstract (http://www.ingenta.com/isis/searching/ExpandTOC/ingenta;jsessionid=s1tixv0glt84?issue=infobike://bsc/cphy/1997/00000017/00000004&index=3)
3- Journal of Sports Medicine 1987, abstract (http://journal.ajsm.org/cgi/content/abstract/15/3/275?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&searchid=1065722315854_2213&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&volume=15&firstpage=275&journalcode=amjsports)

Lets start with oldest to most recent article, and the points that jumped out at me...

Article 3: Are they comparing apples to oranges?
- The exercise was listed as 60 minutes daily, for 6 months, but I can't judge the intensity level. You are going to get a decent workout with a "brisk walk", the question is how "brisk" was the swim?
- No dietary restrictions. This would have been a lot more interesting: did their food intake increase as they did more swimming?
- They compared two leg-based land exercises, to a mostly upper-body aquatic exercise. I'm guessing that leg strength increases with body weight (even for sedentary people), but that upper body strength probably doesn't. It would have helped if they had an upper-body land group (rowing machine) and a leg-centric aquatic group ("walking" in a pool with a life vest??), to make sure all of the bases are covered.

Article 2: Much better abstract/study! :)
- They start off by stating that there was no data studying the efficacy of swimming for treatment of obesity and cardiovascular risk factors, as opposed to many studies for land-based exercise.
- The exercise was 45 min a day, 3 days a week, for 10 weeks, at 60% of maximal heart rate. (I don't know about you, but I can get 60% on an easy recovery swim.)
- The study found a significant improvement in resting and submaximal heart rates, lactic acid concentrations, and perceived exertion. If swimming affects your heart rate, can you really use that as your guide to how hard you are training? (I'm not sure what they could use, if not heart rate, but I think this should be noted.)
- The last statement is that "swim training of the duration, frequency, and intensity used in the the present study" did not help. It did not say that swimming (of any kind) will not help. I don't have the citation, but I remember a study that showed that low-intensity aerobics had no improvent in body fat or aerobic capacity (but high-intensity did).

Article 1: You need more than 1 data point to determine the slope of a line!
- With only two studies in the last 16 years, I think this is a pretty wild overstatement. I think a better statement would be "a low-intensity swim program with unrestricted diet fails to improve (blood factors)".
- As Kevin pointed out, that body temperature thing came out of left field. (Is that "Kevin in Maryland" or "Kevin in medicine"?)
- To be nit-picky, the Colorado article was in the June 1997 issue, not the July 1997 issue. It pays to be accurate with your citations.

sparx35
October 9th, 2003, 04:43 PM
if you look at a 220lb wrestler and then lookat a 200lb out of shape person ,excersise is not only for weight loss it is for toning the body too,too many people think success is losing pounds,can be true but try changing the pounds to muscle and toned muscle and see the difference.A few years ago i lost 60lbs down to 170 lbs, i looked sick!!i'm 6ft,i now weigh 200lb appx(don't get weighed that much now!!)my shape is more healthy and my swimming stamina is really good thanks to stick-to-it-iveness at the pool

Conniekat8
October 10th, 2003, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by Dominick Aiello
But it will not give you the restance to have good firm muscle....

Heh, since I started swimming few months ago, I have gained a lot of muscle. Probably doubled the muscle in my upper body, and lot a lot of fat. When I want more resistance, I put my paddles and fins on. The fat is just coming off, like it's going out of style.

With swimming, if you want more resistance, just try moving your arms and legs through the water faster, you'll get a ton of resistance.

Ever tried doing bicep curls with your paddles on? You can work them good!

Dominick Aielloeaver
October 10th, 2003, 09:24 AM
I like your humor. If that works for you , great. But i still stand by my guns. By the way I do move in the water. Twice a week I swim . 25 meter pool , Mon. & Fri. 3-miles non stop free style.Good stroking all the way. That is a total of 6-miles a week. I dont do more because I do alot of work in the gym.;) :cool:

belly_hippie
October 10th, 2003, 04:14 PM
Thank you swimmers! Your replies helped build a more positive outlook towards swimming as a vehicle to loose weight. I swim two times a week with rather high intensity for 45 mins. The reason why I am worried is because I am trying to upped my cardio with swimming. I hit the gym 4 times a week and I would like to scale down to 2 instead and spend the rest of my workout days in the pool. One of the reason is because I feel much better after a good swim as compared to a good run. I weight train the same day I swim and I'm not too sure if it's a good idea. Anyway, thank you so much for all your reponses.

MegSmath
October 15th, 2003, 09:25 AM
Think you can't lose weight swimming? Check out

http://www.swiminfo.com/lane9/news/5975.asp

It's all about Bill Volckening and his tremendous weight loss.

Fritz
October 15th, 2003, 01:51 PM
This may be impossible to quantify, but how much of Bills loss was due to swimming and how much was due to change in diet? He was swimming before he took off weight. Did he swim more? or was it really more a change in diet? I really don't know and am curious if anyone does.

Swimmer Bill
October 15th, 2003, 04:53 PM
Hi All,

First, thanks Meg for the kind words..

Second, to answer Fritz's questions:


Originally posted by Fritz
how much of Bills loss was due to swimming and how much was due to change in diet?

There were two factors that contributed to my weight loss -- exercise and nutrition. I couldn't say that either of these factors was more influential than the other. Both factors accompanied and complimented one another, and it is very important to note that these factors were approached as permanent lifestyle changes.


Originally posted by Fritz
He was swimming before he took off weight.

Actually, I was sedentary. Participating in Masters meets once or twice a year (without training) should not be confused with having a regular swimming routine.


Originally posted by Fritz
Did he swim more?

Yes. The routine changed from swimming once every six months to swimming once every 24 hours. Until recently, the daily volume was only 1600 meters in a 25 meter pool, with no other exercise activities.


Originally posted by Fritz
or was it really more a change in diet?

The two things went together. One of the most intriguing observations is when you start a regular swimming routine, you may become much more interested in good, balanced nutrition.

Good questions! Thanks for asking.
Swimmer Bill

Fritz
October 15th, 2003, 04:55 PM
Thanks for the answers. I did think you were swimming more often than you were.

Swimmer Bill
October 16th, 2003, 12:32 PM
Sure thing. Glad I could help.

So, here's the recap: The subject, "Swimmer Bill" went from three years of being totally sedentary to swimming 1-mile per/day, every day, seven days a week, very rarely missing a day.

During this time, the weight dropped from 265 lbs to 195, and the waist size decreased from 42" to 34". There were a couple short periods when the swimming volume increased, especially in the summer of 2002, but basically, it was a mile per/day swimming with no other exercise activity.

NOTE: This swimming activity was not leisurely, continuous swimming. It was interval training with a specific balance of kicking, pulling, swimming, drilling and stroke work -- and it included an unusually high percentage of kicking with fins.

One interesting observation from this experiment:

Not only can you lose weight swimming, but you don't necessarily have to do high-volume swimming to lose weight.

Even more interesting: the resulting improvement in swimming performance. This improvement has included almost 50 lifetime best swims, a 1-minute lifetime best improvement in the mile, and a 490 yard improvement in the One Hour Swim.

The mile/per/day routine continued until just a few weeks ago, when it was increased to two miles per/day. After just two weeks, the hour swim distance increased by another 20 yards during a 6000 yard postal swim.

...and the experiment continues...

Scansy
October 21st, 2003, 11:27 PM
My experience is that you can lose weigh swimming. I have only made small changes in my eating habits - but have dropped from 213 to 180 in the past 10 months. And I think that I have added some muscle so my fat loss is more than the 33 pounds the scale shows.

Also, I had a streak of three weeks where I could only swim a couple of times (pool closed for annual maintenance, terrible head cold and out of town for a week on business). Over that time, I put about four pounds back on. Then, two weeks of swimming again dropped those four.

I do suspect that many of the subjects in the studies are swimming "liesurely". My work out is intervals with a mix of free/breast/fly (have not yet tried back) and pulling/kicking/drills. I check my heart rate once or twice during each workout and it is always over 140 and as high as 160. I am getting about 2700 to 3000 yards in an hour.

As for the "heat sink" keeping you cool, I don't know about that either. When I am done, I feel warm for several hours afterwards. Even when I am resting during my intervals for 20 seconds or so I feel warm.

cinc3100
October 22nd, 2003, 12:35 AM
Swimming will help I converted some of that fatty tissue to my childhood lean muscle. I once weight 216 about 4 years ago. And I now around 188. A new development has help me. My teeth have a lot of problems so now I cutting down on diet pop and sweets because the cardonioned water and sugar has really put a strain on my teeth. I recently lost a tooth. So swimming and diet will help. And Phil, hats off to you swimming a 2:30 200 meter butterfly, even if you are snacking.

Phil Arcuni
October 22nd, 2003, 11:22 AM
Thanks Cynthia, Do you think that if I quit snacking, I can go a 2:10 (the winning time?)

laineybug
October 22nd, 2003, 12:56 PM
Just went to the Weight Watchers sight to see how many points they give for swimming.

You have to choose: swimming, slow or swimming, fast; then enter the length of time of the swim. Well, now, 1) would you consider a typical workout posted on this site slow or fast, and 2) should you subtract the brief rest intervals in the workouts from the total swim time?

for 90 minutes of swimming, slow a person gets 13 points
for 90 minutes of swimming, fast a person gets 15 points

Considering that a person who weights between 150 and 174 lbs gets 22 points, swimming must be very good for weight loss because you get almost a full days worth of points for an hour and a half!

Lainey

dorothyrd
October 22nd, 2003, 02:22 PM
I got annoyed with WW not having a moderate category for swimming, so I used www.caloriesburned.com to figure out how many calories swimming burned. Then, since one AP point is worth about 100 calories, I converted it to APs. That worked well for me.

dorothyrd
October 22nd, 2003, 02:25 PM
Whoops wrong link, try this one...http://caloriesperhour.com/

jean sterling
October 22nd, 2003, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by laineybug
You have to choose: swimming, slow or swimming, fast; then enter the length of time of the swim. Well, now, 1) would you consider a typical workout posted on this site slow or fast, and 2) should you subtract the brief rest intervals in the workouts from the total swim time?
Lainey

I think that what is important is not whether you swim slow or fast, but rather how much effort you put into it. Swimming 200 free in 3:30 might be no big deal for some people, but for me it would be pretty much maximum effort. Also, it depends on what stroke (or strokes) you are swimming. A workout that has a lot of fly, breast (competition style), and IMs in it will probably be done somewhat more slowly than an all freestyle workout but will require a lot more effort. Somebody who just floats up and down the pool might not be putting any effort into it whatsoever - if you spend 20 minutes "swimming" 200 yards, you are probably not going to take off any weight.

I don't think I would worry about the short rest times - it is the effort as well as the time that counts imho.

cinc3100
October 22nd, 2003, 04:15 PM
It might help cutting down on the snacking,Phi. 200 meter fly is a lot of conditoning. I read in Swim Magazine that William Specht that did that 200 meter time in 2:10, workouts between 25,000 to 30,000 yards or meters a week which is alot for our age group.

Phil Arcuni
October 24th, 2003, 12:48 AM
Probably what would help my time the most would be to practice the 25,000 - 30,000 yards/meters /wk instead of the 12,000 - 15,000 I swim now. That and adding 40 lbs of muscle, like Billy (that's what the guys who swam with him in NJ call him.) Snacks have relatively little to do with it . . . except,

I feel it in my 'gut' that if I doubled my swim distance I would need at least two more snacks to maintain weight (these would occur at 10:00 am and 5:30 pm.) That is, I think, about 600 calories, and consistent with the discussions in this thread. Thus, if I added only *one* snack, I could be a successful dieter.

See people, losing weight is easy and can be fun!

;)