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View Full Version : Do you use a six-beat kick?



philoswimmer
August 20th, 2011, 02:51 AM
Or a two-beat? Or?

gaash
August 20th, 2011, 11:31 AM
"0 beat kick" --though I guess that's why I'm no good at swimming :)

philoswimmer
August 21st, 2011, 02:41 AM
It's interesting to see how this poll is going so far... I thought we were "supposed" to always do a six-beat kick, but apparently there are lots of us that don't do that. I for one find it very hard to do unless I am sprinting.

__steve__
August 21st, 2011, 03:37 PM
2 beat for 100 pace and slower, 6 beat for 200 pace and faster

philoswimmer
August 21st, 2011, 03:41 PM
2 beat for 100 pace and slower, 6 beat for 200 pace and faster

Did you phrase that the way you meant to?

__steve__
August 21st, 2011, 07:38 PM
Yes, other than drilling, anything between 200 and 100 pace will be either 2 or 6 depending on needs


Guess I better vote -6 for sprinting

Kurt Dickson
August 21st, 2011, 07:48 PM
kicking does not give me a lot of bang for the buck; not sure if that's just me being lazy or if some people are better able to maintain a 6 beat without going anaerobic. My legs are always first to go even in postal swims where I'm just dragging them.

fmracing
August 21st, 2011, 09:53 PM
I have no idea. I get confused when I try to count my kicks because my feet work independantly from my arms :angel:

philoswimmer
August 21st, 2011, 10:50 PM
Yes, other than drilling, anything between 200 and 100 pace will be either 2 or 6 depending on needs


Guess I better vote -6 for sprinting

Sorry, still trying to understand. You said, "2 beat for 100 pace and slower, 6 beat for 200 pace and faster." So, you go 2-beat for 100 pace, 125 pace, 150 pace... etc. (I'm assuming longer distances = slower).

Then you go 6-beat for 200 pace, 175 pace, 150 pace etc. (assuming shorter distances = faster).

That's not making sense to me logically. The more common thing to say would be that you go 2-beat for 200 pace and slower, 6-beat for 100 pace and faster. Unless there is something I am still not getting.

orca1946
August 22nd, 2011, 12:57 AM
From my distance back ground, a 4 beat works with my arms just fine.
I only had 7 fast twitch fibers & now , getting older, I only have 3 !!!!!!:cane:

__steve__
August 22nd, 2011, 09:30 AM
Sorry, still trying to understand. You said, "2 beat for 100 pace and slower, 6 beat for 200 pace and faster." So, you go 2-beat for 100 pace, 125 pace, 150 pace... etcI re-read what I wrote and noticed I should have clarified a little more. Thank you, written communication improvement is an on going thing.

So long as I'm not doing a drill:
2-beat kick always used for anything slower than (<) my 200.
6-beat always for anything faster than (>) a 100.
But (this is where I failed to clarify:)), if it's faster than my 200 AND slower than my 100 (currently very slow BTW:blush:) I use either the 2 or 6 beat kick depending on the situation. Examples:
6- beat negative split.
2- beat during first 150 of a 200 for fear of entering zone of spontanious autoignition of body parts.



From my distance back ground, a 4 beat works with my arms just fine.
The only way I can actually maintain a 4-beat rhythm is by kicking twice with each leg, like a double kick. Actually seems to work well perhaps I should try it more often, hmm.

gaash
August 22nd, 2011, 09:42 AM
I have no idea. I get confused when I try to count my kicks because my feet work independantly from my arms :angel:

This. How do people actually count especially when swimming fast? Then again, when I used to swim I was one of the fastest in any pull set but one of the slowest swimmers so clearly what I used to do is wrong.

fmracing
August 22nd, 2011, 10:14 AM
This. How do people actually count especially when swimming fast? Then again, when I used to swim I was one of the fastest in any pull set but one of the slowest swimmers so clearly what I used to do is wrong.


I've tried to figure it out from video of my races even... i haven't been able to find any rhyme , reason, or pattern to my kick. It just kinda... is.

In practice i have a single beat crossover kick :)

Redbird Alum
August 22nd, 2011, 11:19 AM
I think the poll should have had an option for 6-beat all the time I am thinking about it... some other beat the rest of the time.

"Marching to the beat of a different drummer..."

philoswimmer
August 22nd, 2011, 11:51 AM
I re-read what I wrote and noticed I should have clarified a little more. Thank you, written communication improvement is an on going thing.

So long as I'm not doing a drill:
2-beat kick always used for anything slower than (<) my 200.
6-beat always for anything faster than (>) a 100.
But (this is where I failed to clarify:)), if it's faster than my 200 AND slower than my 100 (currently very slow BTW:blush:) I use either the 2 or 6 beat kick depending on the situation. Examples:
6- beat negative split.
2- beat during first 150 of a 200 for fear of entering zone of spontanious autoignition of body parts.



The only way I can actually maintain a 4-beat rhythm is by kicking twice with each leg, like a double kick. Actually seems to work well perhaps I should try it more often, hmm.

2-beat kick for 200 and slower.
6-beat kick for 100 and faster.
Yes, that makes more sense!

couldbebetterfly
August 22nd, 2011, 03:38 PM
I think the poll should have had an option for 6-beat all the time I am thinking about it... some other beat the rest of the time.



:applaud: Yes that's me! I think I use 2-beat mostly, and a 6-beat when I pick up the speed. However I only know I do 6-beat when I really concentrate and count, which is not very often :blush:

taruky
August 22nd, 2011, 04:37 PM
Could someone explain how a 4-beat kick works. I don't understand how you get symmetry to the stoke if you are not doing an odd number of kicks per side.

__steve__
August 22nd, 2011, 09:10 PM
Could someone explain how a 4-beat kick works. I don't understand how you get symmetry to the stoke if you are not doing an odd number of kicks per side.The only way I can pull a true 4 - beat kick is by kicking 2X in succession each leg. Like a double 2 - beat :). An easy way to confirm your kick pattern is with video review.

nhc
August 23rd, 2011, 07:06 AM
Those who do 2 beat kick, do you whip kick bending your knees while kicking, or keep the legs straight like big scissors?

Anyone does 2 beat in backstroke?

__steve__
August 23rd, 2011, 09:54 AM
I believe Jonty Skinners 100M WR of 49:44 was accomplished with a 2- beat pattern

nhc
August 23rd, 2011, 06:25 PM
Laurie Manaudou also won gold using her famous 2 beat kick.

Herb
August 24th, 2011, 09:10 PM
I have no idea. I get confused when I try to count my kicks because my feet work independantly from my arms :angel:

I am glad I am not the only one. I was about to quit the sport when I couldn't figure out this fundamental question. But you are a much better swimmer than me so I guess I won't worry about it.

Near as I can tell, when swimming aerobically I have a 2 beat kick followed by 2 non-kicks. Like a 1, .8, .2, .1 kick or something. When I sprint I kick harder and faster but I have no idea of the count.

KevinS
August 25th, 2011, 10:29 AM
Same as some others on here, I use a 6 beat for everything 200 or less. On my 500's I use a 6 beat the first and last 75 yards, and a two beat in the middle 350.

emilyswilfong
August 27th, 2011, 04:20 PM
I use a 2-beat kick anytime I'm not sprinting. I know, bad habits of the typical distance swimmer. As for the technique, my kicks are structured exactly like they are for my 6-beat, but with small pauses between. I don't have a scissor kick, but I also don't bend my knees more than normal. I do 6-beat for backstroke as well.

nhc
August 27th, 2011, 05:14 PM
According to the poll so far, when not sprinting, almost 70% don't use 6 beat kicks. However, what I see in the pools is different: most people use 6 beat (I didn't count their beats, but it's obvious more than 4 beats and definitely not 2 beats), whether sprinting or not.

Debugger
August 28th, 2011, 05:46 AM
According to the poll so far, when not sprinting, almost 70% don't use 6 beat kicks. However, what I see in the pools is different: most people use 6 beat (I didn't count their beats, but it's obvious more than 4 beats and definitely not 2 beats), whether sprinting or not.
It might depend on distance and intensity. I may use 6 beat kick for 800m as well if I swim in relaxed, easy manner. Sure that I don't kick as hard in that case.

Popeye.Tom
August 31st, 2011, 07:12 PM
I voted "only when sprinting" but even that needs to be amended...only when sprinting and not breathing. If I put my head down (figuratively, mostly) and stop breathing, then I can really bring in a strong 6 beat kick.

Whenever I breath, either side, I have a kerthump-thump kick!

PT

philoswimmer
August 31st, 2011, 08:13 PM
I voted "only when sprinting" but even that needs to be amended...only when sprinting and not breathing. If I put my head down (figuratively, mostly) and stop breathing, then I can really bring in a strong 6 beat kick.

Whenever I breath, either side, I have a kerthump-thump kick!

PT

I am starting to fear that this is what I do, too. I have to really be pushing it to do a six-beat kick. And yet, I have no problem doing it when I wear fins. Hmm.

Popeye.Tom
September 1st, 2011, 02:32 PM
I am starting to fear that this is what I do, too. I have to really be pushing it to do a six-beat kick. And yet, I have no problem doing it when I wear fins. Hmm.

Wow, that's really interesting about the fins. I find that the fins only make the issue worse and I almost never swim with fins. If I swim with fins, they slow down my kick rate and I have to either slow down my stroke rate or swim with a half-beat kick, if such a thing exists!

(Also, fins exacerbate my leg cramping.)

PT

philoswimmer
September 1st, 2011, 04:05 PM
Wow, that's really interesting about the fins. I find that the fins only make the issue worse and I almost never swim with fins. If I swim with fins, they slow down my kick rate and I have to either slow down my stroke rate or swim with a half-beat kick, if such a thing exists!

(Also, fins exacerbate my leg cramping.)

PT

I should have specified -- for sprinting, I'm generally using short or medium length fins, and so I can keep up a fast kick tempo.

My guess as to what is happening is this: I have trouble focusing on both arms and legs at the same time (yes, I am that uncoordinated). So, most of the time when I'm swimming freestyle I focus on my arms, because that is where I get most of my propulsion. But when I put fins on, I get a lot more propulsion from my legs, so then it's my arms that are coasting a bit. I'm not saying this is a good thing, mind you. I'm trying to incorporate more kick into my regular (non-fin) stroke, but I'm just not managing it well.