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View Full Version : TI Drills and Throwing the Right arm



redcliffe
November 1st, 2011, 06:12 PM
Hi all. I've been working through the TI drills from the book. I've posted a couple of videos on Youtube:

TI Triple Overswitch Drill Practice - YouTube
TI Drillstroke Practice - YouTube

Particularly on the second video I'm really throwing my right arm. I don't notice it when I'm doing it though. Anyone care to have a look at my videos and tell me how I'm doing and what I need to work on? Thanks,

David

rtodd
November 1st, 2011, 08:25 PM
Seems like you are doing the drill correctly. Everything looks pretty good. I'm not sure why your right arm does that. Bottom line is fix it. It takes about 10,000 repetitions to start working it out. Do alot of fingertip drag.

On perhaps a seperate subject, you look like you are a right side dominant breather, so there may be some asymetry to your stroke. One thing you want to work on is breathing early and returning your head to (i.e. getting your face back in the water looking down) as fast as possible before your recovering arm passes in front.

redcliffe
November 1st, 2011, 08:45 PM
Cool thanks. I think I'll need to do a bit of Zipperswitch focusing on that arm, and then focus on carrying that to my stroke. I'll have another look at that timing issue too.

Originally I was a full time bilateral breathing swimmer, but in a push for faster aerobic speeds for long distance I had swapped to breathing every second stroke to the right. Probably have some carry on from that. I'm trying to get back to just doing bilateral even for the long distance stuff. I think I was getting a bit confused though due to focusing on the body roll and forgetting to breathe.

The whole body roll like that feels quite exaggerated to me, but when you look at it in the video it really doesn't look that extreme. Thanks,

David

SolarEnergy
November 2nd, 2011, 10:33 AM
Hi David,

I think this issue is a very minor one. It should not interfere with the benefits you're getting out of working on these drills. In fact, this thing you do with your arm reminds me the stroke of this guy, Bill Kirby who was featured on SwimSmooth's first DVD. An Olympian, great swimmer, who just like you sometimes *throw* his arm especially whilst breathing.

Here have a look
Bill Kirby Swimming Technique Visualization - YouTube

This flaw denotes good body rotation, good recovery mechanics, and it's nothing that your Zipper drill won't fix (easily that is).

Personnally, I'd worry more about this strange *agitated* 8 or more beat kicking you do, as it tends to provide you with too much propulsion, thus lowering the benefits that this drill should have on pulling.

And obviously, very obviously you're gllllllliding a lot which is consistent with TI work, just be aware that some day, you'll have to learn to better catch the water.

__steve__
November 2nd, 2011, 11:40 AM
One thing you want to work on is breathing early and returning your head to (i.e. getting your face back in the water looking down) as fast as possible before your recovering arm passes in front.a good drill for this is have your chin touch your shoulder throughout the breathing strokes so the head follows timing.

knelson
November 2nd, 2011, 11:51 AM
I think this issue is a very minor one.

I agree. I don't think it's anything to worry about.

Jimbosback
November 2nd, 2011, 03:32 PM
Hi David,


Personnally, I'd worry more about this strange *agitated* 8 or more beat kicking you do, as it tends to provide you with too much propulsion, thus lowering the benefits that this drill should have on pulling.




I do the same crazy out of control kicking in freestyle, meaning to work on it for about a year. I was inspired by this comment to start this morning. After a few hundred yards working on it, I figured out the proper rhythm, and it makes a huge difference.

SolarEnergy
November 2nd, 2011, 05:06 PM
I agree. I don't think it's anything to worry about.

You know how I call these? Emotional flaws. Swimming is a sport, but also a way of expressing ourselves. The OP is passionate about what he does, seems to be very happy with the progress made with TI drilling, he may be little too enthusiastic.

So do swim like robots, others, well you can almost read their state of mind through their stroke.


**edit**

I do the same crazy out of control kicking in freestyle, meaning to work on it for about a year. I was inspired by this comment to start this morning. After a few hundred yards working on it, I figured out the proper rhythm, and it makes a huge difference. Wonderful, I'm glad it could help.

Here, why don't you have yourself a good laugh to my expense.

This clip was recorded, in part, to explain the 6-beat kick timming. Maybe you won't learn anything, but at least it should put a little smile on your face.

0-Arm Swimming Walzt - YouTube

finally, the 0-arm-to-full progression briefly referred to in this clip goes as follow. It's aimed at improving 6-beat-kick freestyle (perfectly suitable for sprinting):

Free Style Drill : 0-Arm-to-Full-Stroke Progression - YouTube

(but I'm drifting off topic here, I can feel it. So sorry about this)

pendaluft
November 2nd, 2011, 05:14 PM
You know how I call these? Emotional flaws. Swimming is a sport, but also a way of expressing ourselves. The OP is passionate about what he does, seems to be very happy with the progress made with TI drilling, he may be little too enthusiastic.

So do swim like robots, others, well you can almost read their state of mind through their stroke.

This post is so poetic -- I like it!

redcliffe
November 2nd, 2011, 06:05 PM
I guess the kicking has come from trying to keep moving while doing the slow drills. Typically my kick is 2 beat to non-existent. I've never really had much of a good kick and even in sprinting it's been pretty much just 2 beat. Thanks,

David

orca1946
November 2nd, 2011, 06:10 PM
Not a big deal. You might want to do some bi lateral every lap to help in rolling the other way & arm recovery.

SolarEnergy
November 3rd, 2011, 11:50 AM
I guess the kicking has come from trying to keep moving while doing the slow drills. Typically my kick is 2 beat to non-existent. I've never really had much of a good kick and even in sprinting it's been pretty much just 2 beat. Thanks,

David
Cool.

And. In your opinion, on your second clip, what drill is that and why do you perform it?

redcliffe
November 5th, 2011, 10:19 PM
The second clip was just a slow deliberate practice stroke, not a drill per se. Easier to practice swimming right slow than fast I guess.

David

SolarEnergy
November 6th, 2011, 08:14 AM
Then here's the deal.

My comment about your kicking pertained to this second clip.

What you do is good, no doubt about that, it's good drilling. The only problem that I see is that this work teaches you (or teaches your body) to rely heavily on your kicking to provide forward propulsion. As a proof of this, after having worked on the drill displayed in clip#1, you end up swimming as in clip#2, ie with an 8 or 10beat kick or something.

Since there's also a pulling component to your drill shown in clip#1, it'd be good to try to improve your pulling feel for water. In a well balanced freestyle execution, there should not be more than 6 kicks per stroke cycle, that's 3 per body rotation.

One good way of helping this would be to perform a bit of pull buoy swim after having worked on drill shown in clip#1, for 200-300m. Then do the full stroke work maybe?