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View Full Version : Tragedy in my workout pool today



jaadams1
November 17th, 2011, 05:29 PM
Please read this story...sad news

http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2011/nov/17/person-pulled-from-whs-swimming-pool/

(NOTE: If the link doesn't get you to the story, click on the "HOME" button on the newspaper website, it'll be the "front page story". It's being updated frequently, so this link could be ever changing.)

Very very sad story and circumstance that happened today at the high school pool. :( I really feel sorry for the parents of this person, and I'm sure a lawsuit of some kind will be coming. I'm just glad I wasn't one of the teachers who was supposed to be "watching" the class.

I swim with my masters group every morning in this pool, and for the remainder of the month, ALL groups are out of the pool. Apparently the high school P.E. classes that use the pool for their swimming portion of the year, do so with the regular P.E. teachers supervising. Not a trained lifeguard, water instructor, etc. type of person. Just a regular old teacher.

I just talked with my masters coach, and she got the call from the school that said we are out, along with the swim team is out, and every user group out till the end of the month while they "do an investigation".

Basically what is going to be happening, is that they are going to require having a paid lifeguard on deck while all groups are using the pool. Not a problem for us to pay for that in the morning for masters, but kinda sucks that we're out till December. Hopefully we'll be able to return then, if not sooner!
I will still be able to swim in the afternoons at the YMCA pool, but I do enjoy my mornings.

knelson
November 17th, 2011, 05:40 PM
From the story:

However, he did say that someone died and that the accident apparently happened when no one else was around.

So the student sneaked into the pool and drowned? Very strange and it seems likely no one will ever know what really happened.

Requiring lifeguards on deck during scheduled pool programs doesn't seem to be addressing what happened. How about ensuring the pool doors are locked when the pool is not in use instead?

jaadams1
November 17th, 2011, 05:44 PM
From the story:


So the student sneaked into the pool and drowned? Very strange and it seems likely no one will ever know what really happened.

Requiring lifeguards on deck during scheduled pool programs doesn't seem to be addressing what happened. How about ensuring the pool doors are locked when the pool is not in use instead?

At the high school pool the doors from outside and both lockerrooms are locked, there's actually no way to leave them unlocked either. You have to prop them open. If they are latched, they lock (both ways in and out). Occasionally when we get there in the mornings, one of the lockerroom doors is left open, or not 100% latched as well. A no-no for sure.
They are in the middle of high school P.E. swimming classses at the high school this time of year, so I'm sure the lockerroom doors are left open from the change of class to class. So if a student arrives early and gets out there before anyone else, gets in the pool and gets in trouble...this is what could happen.

They will definitely have something come about at the pool with more safety regulations.

debaru
November 17th, 2011, 06:14 PM
Please read this story...sad news

Very sad indeed, James. :( This incident sounds too similar to what happened at my pool a few weeks ago.

orca1946
November 17th, 2011, 07:01 PM
KIds will prop the doors open often. ANYONE that gets into an unguarded pool is at risk. Yes there are times between classes that no one is on deck, but all rules are well spelled out as to when people may enter the water.

jaadams1
November 17th, 2011, 07:08 PM
KIds will prop the doors open often. ANYONE that gets into an unguarded pool is at risk. Yes there are times between classes that no one is on deck, but all rules are well spelled out as to when people may enter the water.


But you know kids as well as all of us...they don't like authority nor do they like to respect the rules.
I'm sure it'll change now though. It always takes something disasterous like this to invoke change. :agree:

Kurt Dickson
November 17th, 2011, 07:23 PM
We had someone come to our ER a few years ago after drowning in high school gym class...too many students to staff ratio or something like that. Teacher (reportedly a good teacher) lost his job.

As opposed to others, I don't get how almost adult high school students drown...seems you could just stand up. If you are 15 years old, can't swim and do not have the sense to stay in the shallow end, then I'm not sure there is much hope for you.

2 age-groupers on my kid's team near-drowned last year doing underwaters...not sure all the precautions, law suits, and lifeguards help in the end. I somehow (to the chagrin of many) survived many years of two per day practices without lifeguards.

jaadams1
November 17th, 2011, 07:33 PM
We had someone come to our ER a few years ago after drowning in high school gym class...too many students to staff ratio or something like that. Teacher (reportedly a good teacher) lost his job.

As opposed to others, I don't get how almost adult high school students drown...seems you could just stand up. If you are 15 years old, can't swim and do not have the sense to stay in the shallow end, then I'm not sure there is much hope for you.

2 age-groupers on my kid's team near-drowned last year doing underwaters...not sure all the precautions, law suits, and lifeguards help in the end. I somehow (to the chagrin of many) survived many years of two per day practices without lifeguards.

I'm with you on all of this. Who knows what will happen with the teachers who were in charge of the groups. My masters coach told me that in the past, she talked with the high school about being a volunteer guard for the P.E. swimming sessions. The school told her they would "contact her" if needed. She was only called in once for a special-ed group that was doing lessons, and she gladly came in, and even did in water instruction and assistance with them.
She would've been there for all these P.E. classes too, as an "aquatic trained professional", but the school apparently did not need her help.
I think they will be changing their thinking now and will for sure have hired help, or require that each user group have hired guards on deck when in use.

Crawfishlova
November 17th, 2011, 08:36 PM
I'm with you on all of this. Who knows what will happen with the teachers who were in charge of the groups. My masters coach told me that in the past, she talked with the high school about being a volunteer guard for the P.E. swimming sessions. The school told her they would "contact her" if needed. She was only called in once for a special-ed group that was doing lessons, and she gladly came in, and even did in water instruction and assistance with them.
She would've been there for all these P.E. classes too, as an "aquatic trained professional", but the school apparently did not need her help.
I think they will be changing their thinking now and will for sure have hired help, or require that each user group have hired guards on deck when in use.

I hate to say it but I bet it all came down to a budget issue. Cheaper to just use the current teachers as guards even though they are not trained to guard than to just hire a trained lifeguard. Businesses tend to do stuff like this to save a buck and the only way anything changes is when a sentinel event like this happens. Then everyone starts scrambling to make changes after disaster has already struck.

jaadams1
November 17th, 2011, 10:19 PM
Here's the most recent update on the Wenatchee World article:

This is copied from the entire article:



Student who died in WHS swimming pool identified

By Dee Riggs (http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/staff/dee-riggs/)
World staff writer
Originally published November 17, 2011 at 2:31 p.m., updated November 17, 2011 at 6:18 p.m.
A 14-year-old student at Wenatchee HIgh School drowned this morning in the school's swimming pool.
Antonio Reyes was found, unresponsive, at 10:53 a.m. at the bottom of the pool, said Sgt. John Kruse with the Wenatchee Police Department. He was taken by ambulance to Central Washington Hospital but could not be revived.
Reyes had been in the pool with classmates in a swimming class that was held between 9:13 and 10: 09 a.m., Kruse said.
"Police investigators interviewed classmates and teachers, and determined Reyes likely drowned while in class, though his classmates and teacher were unaware of this occurring," Kruse said in a press release issued this evening.
Reyes was found about 10:50 a.m. by students in the next scheduled swimming class, Kruse said. He was pulled out of the pool and teachers performed CPR on him until emergency medical services workers arrived and took over.
Foul play is not suspected, Kruse said.
An autopsy is scheduled for Friday, said Chelan County Coroner Wayne Harris.
After Reyes was pulled from the pool, the high school was put into lockdown mode, which the school describes as normal procedure for urgent situations. The lockdown was lifted about 12:40 pm.
In a press release on the Wenatchee School District website, the district said the incident is currently under investigation by the Wenatchee Police Department in full cooperation with the district.
The district also said community and school counselors worked with students Thursday and will be available Friday.
“Our thoughts and prayers are with the Reyes family,” says Superintendent Brian Flones. “We are grateful for all the community members who have lent their support.”

The boy wasn't found for nearly an hour after the class was over and another one was coming in. And apparently it happened DURING THE CLASS.
They definitely are way overdue for having a certified lifeguard at the h.s. pool. I'm sure it will be policy now. And hopefully we'll get access again soon.

All the best wishes to the family of the boy...their lives will never be the same. :(

jaadams1
November 17th, 2011, 10:27 PM
I hate to say it but I bet it all came down to a budget issue. Cheaper to just use the current teachers as guards even though they are not trained to guard than to just hire a trained lifeguard. Businesses tend to do stuff like this to save a buck and the only way anything changes is when a sentinel event like this happens. Then everyone starts scrambling to make changes after disaster has already struck.


I've swum in this pool as an age grouper all the way back to 1986ish, and there has never EVER been a guard there. This wasn't a budget issue. It's not open to the public. It's just used for high school activities, and private user groups like the swim team would use the pool as well. The swim teams were covered by having their USAS certified coach on deck during all practices.
I just hope all the wrongs get righted soon, and that they don't just close the door off to everyone because of this tragic accident.

marksman
November 17th, 2011, 10:41 PM
Even if there were lifeguards there, I am worried about the quality of lifeguarding. I see plenty of the younger ones wander off, gab with their friends, etc. They're there to watch for very rare events, and unfortunately this requires a great deal of mental fortitude.

ourswimmer
November 17th, 2011, 10:50 PM
We had someone come to our ER a few years ago after drowning in high school gym class...too many students to staff ratio or something like that. Teacher (reportedly a good teacher) lost his job.

As opposed to others, I don't get how almost adult high school students drown...seems you could just stand up. If you are 15 years old, can't swim and do not have the sense to stay in the shallow end, then I'm not sure there is much hope for you.

A sudden medical crisis (heart arrythmia, stroke, etc.) could cause drowning, especially in a situation where the student-to-observer ratio was too high. Also, in my completely normal semi-rural high school, some kids spent a lot of the school day stoned. Bad choice, to be sure, but it really shouldn't be fatal.

No matter how this Wenatchee High incident happened, it's a terrible tragedy for this student, and his family, and his classmates, and his teacher.

swimshark
November 18th, 2011, 10:05 AM
Even if there were lifeguards there, I am worried about the quality of lifeguarding. I see plenty of the younger ones wander off, gab with their friends, etc. They're there to watch for very rare events, and unfortunately this requires a great deal of mental fortitude.

We watched the lifeguard asleep this morning as we were getting out. Luckily, he was only over seeing 2 age group teams and both teams had a coach on deck watching (ratio was low).

So sad for this boy's family. I can't imagine how he wasn't found for an hour.

knelson
November 18th, 2011, 10:25 AM
Also, in my completely normal semi-rural high school, some kids spent a lot of the school day stoned.

Stoners are prone to drowning?

jaadams1
November 18th, 2011, 10:57 AM
A guy I work with, his younger brother is at school there, and said that the police arrested one person yesterday at the school, and are treating this as a homicide basically. I guess they interviewed all the students in the class and the teacher, according the the newspaper.
Apparently this younger brother of my coworker said is that the boy who died was a "showboater" all the time, and some people didn't like him for that. Apparently he wasn't a good swimmer, and these kids knew that as well. Foul play?? Possibly. We'll just have to see what comes of it all.

jaadams1
November 18th, 2011, 10:59 AM
We watched the lifeguard asleep this morning as we were getting out. Luckily, he was only over seeing 2 age group teams and both teams had a coach on deck watching (ratio was low).

So sad for this boy's family. I can't imagine how he wasn't found for an hour.

Yes very sad. The pool is cleared out for the change of classes. No one is in the pool until the next P.E. class session. The door should've been locked in between for that long of a period though. I don't know, I wasn't there.

norascats
November 18th, 2011, 11:39 AM
This is so sad and so preventable. The average non swimmer/ poor swimmer parent is clueless about water safety. The average lifeguard's pay is so small that it cannot really be a budget issue.

jaadams1
November 18th, 2011, 03:12 PM
Another story from this morning, just updating with more info:


WENATCHEE — A freshman at Wenatchee High School who apparently drowned in the school swimming pool Thursday may have been underwater for more than 40 minutes before being discovered, unresponsive, on the bottom of the pool.
Antonio Reyes was found at 10:53 a.m., said Sgt. John Kruse with the Wenatchee Police Department. He was taken by ambulance to Central Washington Hospital but could not be revived.
Reyes had been in the pool with classmates in a swimming class that was held between 9:13 and 10:09 a.m., Kruse said.
“Police investigators interviewed classmates and teachers, and determined Reyes likely drowned while in class, though his classmates and teacher were unaware of this occurring,” Kruse said in a press release Thursday evening.
Students in the next scheduled swimming class found the boy, Kruse said. He was pulled out of the pool and teachers performed CPR on him until emergency medical services workers arrived and took over.
Foul play is not suspected, Kruse said.
An autopsy is scheduled for today, said Chelan County Coroner Wayne Harris.
Capt. Doug Jones with the Wenatchee Police Department said this morning that other students in the physical education class told officers that they remember seeing Reyes during the first activity of the class, which involved treading water as a group. The next activity was joining hands and creating a current in the water, and the third activity was water polo. No one remembered him being there for water polo, Jones said.
After Reyes was pulled from the pool, the high school was put into lockdown mode, which the school describes as normal procedure for urgent situations. The lockdown was lifted about 12:40 pm.
Superintendent Brian Flones said this morning that Reyes was found in the deep end of the pool. He said he did not know if Reyes was a good swimmer.
Dee Riggs: 664-7147
deeriggs@wenatcheeworld.com


The P.E. teacher (named in another story) is on adminstrative leave as well, which is standard for something like this happening, as is when an officer fires his weapon on duty.

Allen Stark
November 18th, 2011, 03:14 PM
It seems to me that Lifeguard training should be mandatory for any teacher overseeing kids in the pool.I know at my college, completion of WSI training was a requirement for all PE majors.

slow
November 18th, 2011, 03:56 PM
First, condolences to the family for their loss.

But one thing I see, after a long break from the pool, is how the caliber of lifeguarding has diminished. I worked as a lifeguard part-time as a youth, and now I only see maybe 20% using the "active watch" techniques that were drilled into me. Maybe the certification program has changed?

jaadams1
November 18th, 2011, 04:11 PM
First, condolences to the family for their loss.

But one thing I see, after a long break from the pool, is how the caliber of lifeguarding has diminished. I worked as a lifeguard part-time as a youth, and now I only see maybe 20% using the "active watch" techniques that were drilled into me. Maybe the certification program has changed?


I see similar habits the same as you describe. I was taught in the old ways too, back before you were required to be holding the rescue tube at all times. Now the classes depend on that tube for the rescue.
We went through the classes and did submerged victim/active victim rescues mainly without the tube which is good training as well. As learned the different escapes moves (from the book, and from the teacher who gave the "ways that actually work" methods).
What happens now when that little 16 year old that can barely make the minimum swim distance/time has to go out into the deep water to help a struggling 250+ pound adult male that is grasping for anything to get themselves above water...and then POOF!! away slips the rescue tube and...YIKES!!

geochuck
November 18th, 2011, 04:46 PM
The three pools in our area have two or three lifeguards on duty from opening til closing.

scyfreestyler
November 18th, 2011, 04:52 PM
Unfortunate to hear about this. What a nightmare. We had a similar situation at our pool back in 02 or 03 where a HS water polo player was found the next morning when the covers were pulled. Somehow, her teammates and coach didn't notice her absence when they finished practice the night before.

While staying at a Disneyland Hotel a few years ago, I witnessed a lifeguard being tested by the management. The management had a swimmer sneak some sort of a weighted blanket into the pool, deposit it on the pool bottom and the guard then has a limited amount of time to identify the emergency, dive in and retrieve the "victim". I've been to a number of pools in my life and this was the first time I've ever seen such a thing. Seems like a good idea to me...keeps guards on their toes.

slow
November 18th, 2011, 04:56 PM
I see similar habits the same as you describe. I was taught in the old ways too, back before you were required to be holding the rescue tube at all times. Now the classes depend on that tube for the rescue.
We went through the classes and did submerged victim/active victim rescues mainly without the tube which is good training as well. As learned the different escapes moves (from the book, and from the teacher who gave the "ways that actually work" methods).
What happens now when that little 16 year old that can barely make the minimum swim distance/time has to go out into the deep water to help a struggling 250+ pound adult male that is grasping for anything to get themselves above water...and then POOF!! away slips the rescue tube and...YIKES!!

Maybe I am showing my age, but I was asked to continuously swim 2000 yards (I believe the time limit was 40 minutes?) and then immediately tred water for 30 minutes. It did not seem much to ask and everyone passed the test without issue.

Recently I asked one lifeguard what test they were given, and was told that it was ten lengths of the pool (250 yards) untimed and they could rest on the sides or hold the ropes if they cared to. This was at a YMCA. If true, such certification would be meaningless in my view. How can you save anyone from drowning if you are not fully confident in your own abilities?

pendaluft
November 18th, 2011, 05:10 PM
I, too, remember very vigorous physical requirements for lifeguard certification. Including treading water while holding a brick (don't remember how long, felt like forever). But great conditioning and skills mean little if the guard isn't watching the pool.

Where I swim every morning at 5:30 we have had several lifeguards who do everything but watch the pool: study, text, type on the computer, spend long periods in the bathroom and one guy even shaved while lifeguarding. I reported this many times (plenty of old people and weak swimmers come down for lap swimming) but no action taken. Eventually, these guys moved on to other things and the group there now is more conscientious. Nevertheless, it is disturbing.

To watch a group of teenagers in a crowded pool you have to be very alert. It just seems that most pool lifeguards I have seen recently haven't had that drilled in to them.

geochuck
November 18th, 2011, 05:21 PM
To be a lifeguard in Canada you must belong to this organization http://www.lifesaving.ca/main.php?lang=english&cat=programs&sub=npp

knelson
November 18th, 2011, 05:31 PM
If true, such certification would be meaningless in my view. How can you save anyone from drowning if you are not fully confident in your own abilities?

But if you're a lifeguard at a pool realistically how far would you ever need to swim? Being able to swim 2000 yards nonstop seems like a ridiculous requirement for a pool lifeguard, IMO. Yes, I agree they need to be confident in the water and with the ability to effect an in-water rescue, but I don't see how the ability to swim long distances non-stop is going to help much.

Ex-distance guy
November 18th, 2011, 06:50 PM
I was a lifegaurd/LGI the whole time through highschool-college....we've always had to swim 500 yards nonstop freestyle (no hanging/stopping on walls for air), 25 yrds kick on your back keeping a 10lb? waterbrick to your chest/above water, then some retrieval skills with the waterbrick.

The 500 is what seems to give the "non-swim team" kids trouble (most make it about 200-350 before giving out, and its not because they're old and decrepit(they're 15-18yr old kids!) It is usually due to a lack of any previous technique instruction. A day or two of a focusing on a few simple freestyle adjustments will usually bring these kids up to snuff with the 500. Its not the "these dang whipper snapper lifegaurds only have to do a 250! We had to do a 10000 fly in my day!" that bothers me at all...its the critical things, the important stuff like: CPR, AED, simple First Aid, and the big one SPINAL INJURY RESCUES.
I swear at least half of the lifegaurds I worked with/trained growing up could not perform proper CPR, put an AED on, let alone do a safe SCI/backboarding rescue. (If I break my neck on the diving board, just leave me on the bottom of the pool, i'll take my chances waiting for the paramedics/firemen who i've seen do it right.)
I guess my issue is the lack of emphasis on the big things....like a human's heart, lungs, spinal cord. I dare you, walk up to a lifegaurd who's texting/sleeping/daydreaming(or even scanning like they should!)and ask "what are the steps of CPR?" prepare to be let down.
I know CPR, AEDs, espeically SCI's are not very common and MOST highschool lifegaurds wont ever experience them...I mean just about anyone can yank a panicked small child out of a pool(right?).

It's that "one-in-a-million" chance a lifegaurd will be faced with a heart or spinal issue. They NEED to know CPR like the back of their iphone and also know where to put those leads at. Because when one of the noodlers suddenly stop, and start sinking while bubbles coming up....way too many lifegaurds i've worked with and trained, would flat panic and become a blank page. Suddenly forgetting everything...I guess this is what it ultimately boils down too. Don't forget folks, MOST non-open water gaurds are age 15-19...../rant, sorry

smontanaro
November 18th, 2011, 09:30 PM
I, too, remember very vigorous physical requirements for lifeguard certification.

When I was a lifeguard at UCLA in the 70s we had to swim 400m for time a couple times a year to re-qualify. I believe the cutoff was around seven minutes. We had one lifeguard who was an ex-Olympian (Karen Moe, 200m fly gold medal in 1972). For her it was a casual swim and she still finished well ahead of everyone else. For most of the rest of us it wasn't difficult, but there were certainly a couple lifeguards with less swimming background who had to work hard to make the cutoff.

Skip

Bobinator
November 18th, 2011, 09:46 PM
I teach swimming in freshman summer school physical education. The law in Indiana states that there must be 1 lifeguard per 25 students in the pool during any given class. The swimming instructors used to be required to have a WSI but this is no longer true. This summer we had approximately 45-55 students per block (4 blocks per day). There were 2 certified PE teachers (both swi and LGT"S) and 3 lifeguards. When the classes switched the lifeguards stayed on-deck and guarded the pool. (kept kids from coming back in or getting in early) I usually stayed in the pool with the lifeguards and I can say I never had a student try and get in early.
I think this pool needs to invest in locking doors inbetween the pool and the locker rooms. The teachers must alway lock the doors after the students exit the pool.
I hate to hear about things like this. Such a loss to a family and all of mankind :(

EJB190
November 20th, 2011, 11:05 AM
Very, very sad. I can't imagine what it is like for everyone involved. it seems the school should have had better precautions to keep kids out the pool when it was unattended.

This reminds me of what happened when I was in HS. There was a neighborhood party in a very ritzy neighborhood. Everyone had gone inside to eat and a newly adopted, 2 year old girl belonging to one of the guests crawled into the pool and drowned. Someone noticed reasonably quickly and got her out. When the ambulance arrived, they did not have a proper size breathing tube on board and the girl ended up dying. It was a very, very sad and ugly situation.

jaadams1
December 6th, 2011, 12:14 AM
OH BOY!!! Let the lawsuit begin!!

15 Million Dollar lawsuit against the school district!

http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2011/dec/05/15-million-claimed-filed-against-wenatchee-school/

knelson
December 6th, 2011, 04:04 PM
OH BOY!!! Let the lawsuit begin!!

Seems like a slam dunk case to me. Not sure about $15 million, but I think the Reyes family will get a big payday. Too bad it won't bring their son back, though.

jaadams1
December 6th, 2011, 06:54 PM
Seems like a slam dunk case to me. Not sure about $15 million, but I think the Reyes family will get a big payday. Too bad it won't bring their son back, though.

I know. It's sad news for sure. Did you happen to see this story on the Seattle news last night??

knelson
December 6th, 2011, 07:03 PM
Did you happen to see this story on the Seattle news last night??

No, I didn't.

nhc
December 7th, 2011, 03:01 AM
Especially sad that he was a twin.

Kurt Dickson
December 7th, 2011, 03:07 AM
“I need the answer to ‘What happened to my son?’ “
...but in lieu of an answer, I'll take 15 million

cheakamus
December 7th, 2011, 04:55 AM
“I need the answer to ‘What happened to my son?’ “
...but in lieu of an answer, I'll take 15 million

It's unlikely that they'll get that much, but asking for such a large sum is more likely to produce some answers. In any case, this is just a precursor to the actual lawsuit.

Kurt Dickson
December 7th, 2011, 08:36 AM
asking for such a large sum is more likely to produce some answers.

Not buying that. While nobody likely knows the details of this particular case, I can say firsthand, "answers" and "the truth" are not what anybody's on the plaintiff's side is looking for. In fact, that needs to be blurred as much as possible in order for a big payout and a good old fashioned lynching to occur.

stillwater
December 7th, 2011, 12:00 PM
Well said Kurt,

The planitffs and the scumbag lawyers likely set the whole thing up for a big payday. Meanwhile, the defendants are looking for the truth.

After all, who would have thought to provide safety around water? This type of incident doesn't happen often, and the taxpayers certainly shouldn't need to pay for the support of expensive rules and regulations at a public childrens facility. We are taxed enough. Children need to take some responsibility for their actions, and where were this kids parents anyway?

All an investigation will accomplish is finger pointing and more expensive rule changes.

Good old fashion lynching indeed.

knelson
December 7th, 2011, 12:09 PM
So what exactly do you guys propose? The school district saying "we're really sorry" doesn't really cut it if you ask me.

Where were the parents? Are you kidding? This happened while the kid was in school. The school has a responsibility to keep kids safe while they are in school and they failed to do that.

I'm not a fan of frivolous lawsuits, either, but this one would appear to have merit in my opinion.

Chris Stevenson
December 7th, 2011, 02:30 PM
Well said Kurt,

The planitffs and the scumbag lawyers likely set the whole thing up for a big payday. Meanwhile, the defendants are looking for the truth.

After all, who would have thought to provide safety around water? This type of incident doesn't happen often, and the taxpayers certainly shouldn't need to pay for the support of expensive rules and regulations at a public childrens facility. We are taxed enough. Children need to take some responsibility for their actions, and where were this kids parents anyway?

All an investigation will accomplish is finger pointing and more expensive rule changes.

Good old fashion lynching indeed.

I honestly can't tell if this post is meant to be sarcastic. This is a good time for me to mention my brand new crusade promoting the use of more smilies! :applaud::chug::banana::bliss:

(If the truth hurts their case, defendants are likely to love it a lot less than plaintiffs.)

Kurt Dickson
December 7th, 2011, 03:02 PM
I think the point is the truth in a lawsuit is likely (and often intended) to get muddled as it helps one's case better.

Other points may include the fact that 15 million is not going to get their child back but will guarantee that nobody can use the pool and taxpayers will be footing the bill. I am not here to say the case has no merit but in my mind, there is only damages that equal 15 million if the deceased is a father of 4 making 250K per year.

Another point possibly would be why an almost adult is swimming when he apparently either can't swim or has a medical condition that makes it dangerous for him to swim (and is it the teacher who has 40 students per hour supposed to know this or perhaps would it be the duty of the student or parent to convey that little nugget of information).

Somehow my 4 brothers and I made it through a total of 50 plus accumulative years of competitive swimming without having lifeguards at our side. I see them there all the time now. Is there any evidence their presence helps?

Accidents are a thing of the past. Personal culpability is gone. Someone is always to blame and someone must pay.

And I agree to more love, especially this time of year. :):afraid::bighug::bliss::blah::cheerleader:

pendaluft
December 7th, 2011, 04:42 PM
Another point possibly would be why an almost adult is swimming when he apparently either can't swim or has a medical condition that makes it dangerous for him to swim (and is it the teacher who has 40 students per hour supposed to know this or perhaps would it be the duty of the student or parent to convey that little nugget of information).

:

It was a swimming class -- presumably that would be a safe place for an almost adult who couldn't swim but wanted to learn.

jaadams1
December 7th, 2011, 07:04 PM
It was a swimming class -- presumably that would be a safe place for an almost adult who couldn't swim but wanted to learn.

Yes..."swimming class", but not truely a class about learning to swim. It was more of "get in the water and 'do this'," not even being taught by water instructors.

Years ago, I was in the high school swimming classes (10th grade) when my P.E. class took their session in the pool (I was at a different H.S. and pool than the one in this case). There was a guard on deck, and the students (approx. 30 of us) were divided up into classes just like they do with the little kids. Each group was approx. 10 students with a separate teacher for each class. I know these teachers were competent, because I used to work with them during my high school years as a guard and instructor.
I of course was in the advanced group, and we basically just swam laps. I didn't really pay attention to the lesser classes, but I'm assuming the beginners were the non swimmers, and they worked on just getting comfortable in the water, learning to hold breath/blow out, float, push off the bottom back to shallow water, basic paddling and kicking, etc. This is the kind of lessons that should be done, no matter what age the beginning student is.
I know in the tragic accident at the Wenatchee H.S., this couldn't have been the case, with almost 40 students and one set of eyes watching them all. And then playing games in the water like waterpolo (in a pool with a 12 foot deep end)...especially when some of these kids are the "beginners", or "nonswimmers". It was just a disaster what happened.

no200fly
December 7th, 2011, 09:20 PM
I assume the school district will have governmental immunity and any recovery will be limited to the amount allowed by the state legislature under a statute allowing certain claims, but limiting the amount of recovery. In Texas that would be $250k. There are federal claims that can be made, but they are harder to make and prove.

Depending on the law of the state, there is probably little chance of significant liability for the school district.

slow
December 7th, 2011, 11:00 PM
Is there any evidence their presence helps?

"Estimates indicate that today, U.S. lifeguards rescue more than an estimated 100,000 persons from drowning annually."

Branche CM, Stewart S. (Editors). Lifeguard Effectiveness: A Report of the Working Group. Atlanta: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control; 2001.

Kurt Dickson
December 7th, 2011, 11:58 PM
"Estimates indicate that today, U.S. lifeguards rescue more than an estimated 100,000 persons from drowning annually."

An "estimate" of give or take 100,000...now that is a piece of evidence:)

slow
December 8th, 2011, 02:02 AM
An "estimate" of give or take 100,000...now that is a piece of evidence:)

Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt your ranting and raving. :afraid:

nhc
December 8th, 2011, 02:15 AM
After paying $15M, will the school be able to afford any lifeguard at all? :rolleyes:

Kurt Dickson
December 8th, 2011, 06:33 AM
Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt your ranting and raving. :afraid:
No, I'm sure they save many in the random beach scene or play time at the pool (true numbers, I suppose, are impossible to come by)...I was just wondering how many are saved during lap swim time or when swim teams are practicing, or in this case, a swim class.:bighug:

geochuck
December 8th, 2011, 06:43 AM
About time we stopped discussing this matter. It is and was a sad thing. It has happened before and will probably happen again. It happenned two times to kids I knew.

Kurt Dickson
December 8th, 2011, 04:12 PM
Well here is something positive...recently walked out of our hospital after close to 30 minutes underwater without pulse...truly amazing.
http://www.azfamily.com/news/Family-Toddlers-recovery-from-near-drowning-is-a-miracle-135092143.html

pendaluft
December 8th, 2011, 05:11 PM
wow

good work!
How cold was the water he was submerged in?

Kurt Dickson
December 8th, 2011, 05:39 PM
I was on the adult side of the ER that day so had nothing to do with this save. Water was likely in 50s which always helps...as well as divine intervention :angel:

pendaluft
December 8th, 2011, 08:23 PM
All of the successful cases of prolonged immersion I have been involved with or known of were much colder than that -- so I think you're right that it seems a little miraculous.

Happy endings are always nice.

__steve__
December 9th, 2011, 12:11 AM
Also thank the neighbor who administered CPR once they pulled him out which maintained his brain until EMS arrived (wonder what technique used). He didn't have a pulse for 30 min, but it didn't state how long he was actually submerged.

jaadams1
October 17th, 2012, 01:32 AM
Looks the the situation has finally been settled out of court. Here is today's article in the Wenatchee World:

http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2012/oct/16/school-district-settles-drowning-lawsuit-for-2/


The pool is much safer now since this incident occurred. It's said that it took something like this to get the changes implemented, but at least it hopefully prevents another one from happening to another family in the future.

notsofast
October 18th, 2012, 11:16 AM
$2 million is a pretty common settlement in drownings. Standard is $1 million or so, and the circumstances point to a larger than average settlement.
School district probably has insurance that covers that over a deductible.
I also note the article says the district has to formally apologize to the family and to have a lifeguard on hand, in addition to an instructor, during swim classes.