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swetstone
November 22nd, 2011, 06:46 PM
What do swimmers use for electrolyte replacement and/or meal replacement shakes, etc? I am trying to loose weight but despite all my swimming, it's not happening. I think it's got to be because I'm hungrier, but have a hard time gauging my calories, so I'm looking for a meal replacement system that will help me meep track but that will also have adequqate protein and vitamins for maintaining training. Any suggestions? Thanks!

__steve__
November 22nd, 2011, 06:54 PM
Eat alot of veggies, protein, and good stuff. But stay slightly hungry throughout the day - you'll loose the fat

jaadams1
November 22nd, 2011, 11:11 PM
I could tell you what I eat, but it honestly isn't the stuff a swimmer should be eating. Especially to lose or maintain weight, but somehow it works for me!! I'll have to start cutting back on all the "bad food", since I won't be young forever! :)

bud
November 23rd, 2011, 07:39 AM
I seem to recall some lengthy threads here regarding swimming and weight loss... if you can find them in the archives, that may help you more. As I recall there was no real consensus, but that maybe the result was swimming was not the most efficient means of weight loss.

Based on my personal experience, I can say that swimming 6K+yds/wk, and eating a lean and simple diet, that is enough to slim down. It does not happen lightning fast, but I can do it.

I think the biggest variable though is differences in metabolism. I'm getting older (53) and slower, but I can still burn up the calories fairly efficiently, so if I eat a lean diet, I do not have much trouble keeping my weight down. I do have a weakness for ice-cream and cookies however, so I am carrying a few extra pounds.
:">

I believe most folks can loose weight simply by eating well and doing some exercise on a regular basis. What is eating well? I believe the most important part of that is to eat high quality foods, as close to their natural state as possible.

If you do some study on the subject, you may be surprised to learn some things about your food sources. One documentary that I usually suggest first is: "King Corn"
king corn documentary - Google Search
.

Be Well... Have Fun!

:-)

gaash
November 23rd, 2011, 11:08 AM
Definitely diet is an easier way to lose weight than exercise (both together is ideal) but the studies on swimming and weightloss I suspect are flawed.

There is no way some random out of shape person who is not a trained swimmer can do 30-45 minutes of swimming at even a remotely vigorous pace whereas almost anyone with no training can hop on a treadmill and push themselves... I would suspect the results of many of these studies ended up having the people running doing actual running whereas the swimmers, in order to be able to swim for 30-45 minutes straight were doing easy breaststroke and essentially just floating around in the pool.

As for the comparisions in athletes body fat, body fat % has less of a detrimental impact on swimmers than athletes in many other sports which probably explains part of it ... there are many other obvious differences as well...

The only thing that may make sense is if there is some propensity of the body to store a layer of fat for insulation for people who swim on a regular basis but that seems unlikely as well.



I seem to recall some lengthy threads here regarding swimming and weight loss... if you can find them in the archives, that may help you more. As I recall there was no real consensus, but that maybe the result was swimming was not the most efficient means of weight loss.

Based on my personal experience, I can say that swimming 6K+yds/wk, and eating a lean and simple diet, that is enough to slim down. It does not happen lightning fast, but I can do it.

I think the biggest variable though is differences in metabolism. I'm getting older (53) and slower, but I can still burn up the calories fairly efficiently, so if I eat a lean diet, I do not have much trouble keeping my weight down. I do have a weakness for ice-cream and cookies however, so I am carrying a few extra pounds.
:">

I believe most folks can loose weight simply by eating well and doing some exercise on a regular basis. What is eating well? I believe the most important part of that is to eat high quality foods, as close to their natural state as possible.

If you do some study on the subject, you may be surprised to learn some thongs about your food sources. One documentary that I usually suggest first is: "King Corn"
king corn documentary - Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=king+corn+documentary)
.

Be Well... Have Fun!

:-)

couldbebetterfly
November 23rd, 2011, 08:53 PM
What do swimmers use for electrolyte replacement and/or meal replacement shakes, etc? I am trying to loose weight but despite all my swimming, it's not happening. I think it's got to be because I'm hungrier, but have a hard time gauging my calories, so I'm looking for a meal replacement system that will help me meep track but that will also have adequqate protein and vitamins for maintaining training. Any suggestions? Thanks!

I always shyed away from this stuff in the past, but am now using an electrolyte tablet in my water bottle for when I'm swimming. It has really helped in 2 ways:

1. I actually feel hyrated and satisfied after drinking a smaller amount rather than needing to refill my bottle before the end of my workout.
2. I no longer come home and want to devour the entire contents of the fridge (including the ice-maker!).

I struggle to lose weight (always have and always will), and unfortunately the only way I can lose it is by eating hardly anything and then feeling crap in the pool. Did it in 2001 and think I may need to go there again after Christmas. So I'll be keeping an eye on this thread so see if there are any new ideas on weight loss out there :bolt:

gaash
November 23rd, 2011, 11:30 PM
I always shyed away from this stuff in the past, but am now using an electrolyte tablet in my water bottle for when I'm swimming. It has really helped in 2 ways:

1. I actually feel hyrated and satisfied after drinking a smaller amount rather than needing to refill my bottle before the end of my workout.
2. I no longer come home and want to devour the entire contents of the fridge (including the ice-maker!).

I struggle to lose weight (always have and always will), and unfortunately the only way I can lose it is by eating hardly anything and then feeling crap in the pool. Did it in 2001 and think I may need to go there again after Christmas. So I'll be keeping an eye on this thread so see if there are any new ideas on weight loss out there :bolt:

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but if you aren't hungry while dieting, you are unlikely to lose significant weight... 'hardly eating and feeling like crap' is by far the most effective way to lose weight...

cheakamus
November 24th, 2011, 05:38 AM
There are lots of ways to lose (not "loose" :nono:) weight out there, and believe it or not, losing weight does not always mean having to feel hungry. My wife and I both eat a 60% fat, 20% protein, 20% carbohydrate diet that is both healthy and incredibly satisfying (fat in food increases the sense of satiation). Both of us have lost significant amounts of weight and sustained that loss over time. Google "paleo" or "primal" + "diet" and you'll find plenty of information.

ElaineK
November 24th, 2011, 11:03 AM
My wife and I both eat a 60% fat

Are you serious? 60%??? :afraid:

cheakamus
November 24th, 2011, 11:35 AM
Yes. That figure is from a Fit Day analysis of what we actually eat. The fats come from pastured meats (beef, pork, lamb), fish (mainly wild-caught salmon), eggs and dairy (lots of pastured butter, cream, full-fat milk and raw cheese). We cook (fry) primarily with butter, though we sometimes add in olive oil to raise the smoking point. Otherwise, we use the best olive oil we can get our hands on for salads and a small amount of organic sunflower oil for making mayonnaise and aioli. My wife also likes to drink a cup of hot water with coconut oil from time to time. In general, we try to avoid seed oils entirely, and we eat a lot of fermented foods.

I know this all sounds counterintuitive to most people, especially if you've been raised (as I was) on the the "food pyramid." For many many years (decades) I faithfully followed the precepts for healthy eating of the Canadian Heart Association, but I was never able to successfully, much less painlessly, lose weight. When I began to eat this way (it was a process), the pounds simply dropped off. The first step is to cut carbs, especially those that are high on the glycemic index.

Sojerz
November 24th, 2011, 02:29 PM
I've used the following three books to guide nutrition and training and have lost about 20 pounds in 5 months, and have been building muscles (denser and heavier than fat) without purchasing any special meals or following any special diet - just eating and driniking much smarter.

Training Plans for Multisport Atheletes - Gail Bernhardt
Complete Conditioning for Swimming - Dave Salo and Scott Riewald
The Triathlete's Training Bible - Joe Friel
All three have great sections on nutrition including weight loss. Bernhardt's book shows you how to evaluate calorie intake and needs. She and the others make the point that you don't have to count calories daily. Salo and Riewald's book provide a great deal of nutritional information for for swimming training and compettion, and Friel's nutritional information covers nutrition for athletes in great detail, and especially addressing changes as one ages.

You need to be aware of basic nutrtitional information and intake of these essential nutrients:

Carbohydrates
Protein
Fat
Vitamins
Minerals
Water
While special meals might help for a little while, eventually you will probably go back to eating foods from normal sources. Its far better to learn about proper nutrition, especially for athletics, and combine that learning with exercise to make the life changes needed. You can probably lose 2-4 pounds per month this way and have a better chance to keep it off.

One final thought, your body burns fat from low to moderate intensity excersie, but uses up muscle glycogen when high intensity exercising and you need to replace this glycogen to keep muscles recovering and then rest for muscle adaptation. Running is more effective at burning calories than swim, bike or dryland. These three books provide good informatin on how to refuel and avoid over fueling the tank so that you drop weight at a comfortable rate. Hope this helps.

knelson
November 24th, 2011, 03:08 PM
There are lots of ways to lose (not "loose" :nono:)

Thanks cheakamus. This mistake is worse than "swam" vs. "swum."

Paredes
November 24th, 2011, 06:47 PM
Protein shakes :)

couldbebetterfly
November 24th, 2011, 10:26 PM
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but if you aren't hungry while dieting, you are unlikely to lose significant weight... 'hardly eating and feeling like crap' is by far the most effective way to lose weight...

You've just destroyed any shred of hope I had at avoiding doing this again :(

gaash
November 24th, 2011, 11:03 PM
You've just destroyed any shred of hope I had at avoiding doing this again :(

My bad. But is it honestly better to try all sorts of fad diets and tricks which leave you still unsatisfied as well but with no results than simply cutting calories to well below maintenance and getting results? Most diets are simply ways to try to trick your body into feeling full after eating a caloric deficit (protein+fat are more filling than carbs, hence some peoples success with high protein/fat diets ... those who actually enter ketosis which is a whole other thing are quite rare) Some are lucky enough that this works for them, but for most, it is not the case.

Sojerz
November 25th, 2011, 01:30 PM
I always shyed away from this stuff in the past, but am now using an electrolyte tablet in my water bottle for when I'm swimming. It has really helped in 2 ways:

1. I actually feel hyrated and satisfied after drinking a smaller amount rather than needing to refill my bottle before the end of my workout.
2. I no longer come home and want to devour the entire contents of the fridge (including the ice-maker!).

I struggle to lose weight (always have and always will), and unfortunately the only way I can lose it is by eating hardly anything and then feeling crap in the pool. Did it in 2001 and think I may need to go there again after Christmas. So I'll be keeping an eye on this thread so see if there are any new ideas on weight loss out there :bolt:

I'm 60+ now and my metabolism took a nose dive at about 55, and I was consitently gaining weight; only sporadic swimming and exercising and paying no real attention to what I ate or drank (Guinness, Hop Devil, Flyin Fish, mmm, good :chug:). It's been tough to modify old habits, experiment a little, and learn.

One idea would be after the higher intensity swim workouts add some additional Mod to Hi GI carbs, eletrolytes, and water during the first 30 minutes after workout. Then 1+ hour after workout add low GI carbs, proteins, fats and other nutirents trying to get in about 5-6 such smaller meals each day at maintenace level with good foods. Refuleing after the high intensity workouts should help recovery, maximize workout benefits, and reduce the urge to eat the frig after workouts. The more frequent meals may help you not feel like crap all day long. If you feel like crap after high intensity swimming workouts, you might not be getting enough refueling for muscle recovery.

Then, to reduce weight, add some low intensity aerobic fat burning workouts on a bike, track, tread mill, or eliptical, burning 400 calories or more, and then refuel in first 30-60 minutes after these with water, electrolytes and carbs at maybe 200 calories before returning to your normal maintenance 5-6 meals per day of good foods low GI carbs, protein and fats. You'll burn more fat in the low intensity workouts and use less muscle glycogen, hopefully not feel as hungry after these workouts, and benefit from the calorie difference - result should be slow weight loss without the crash diet I think. I have to be carefufl how much refuleing I do or the slow weight loss reverses.

I've found that the low GI high quality foods seem to provide less of the up/down feelings in energy level and food cravings too.

Lui
November 25th, 2011, 07:04 PM
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but if you aren't hungry while dieting, you are unlikely to lose significant weight... 'hardly eating and feeling like crap' is by far the most effective way to lose weight...

Untrue. You just have to eat the right things: unprocessed highly nutritious food.
People who are always hungry are hungry from eating too much food that lacks nutrients.

Here's a good list: http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php

gaash
November 25th, 2011, 07:44 PM
Untrue. You just have to eat the right things: unprocessed highly nutritious food.
People who are always hungry are hungry from eating too much food that lacks nutrients.

Here's a good list: http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php

No. (period)

Lui
November 25th, 2011, 08:14 PM
No. (period)

Yes(period)

Lui
November 25th, 2011, 08:50 PM
There are lots of ways to lose (not "loose" :nono:) weight out there, and believe it or not, losing weight does not always mean having to feel hungry. My wife and I both eat a 60% fat, 20% protein, 20% carbohydrate diet that is both healthy and incredibly satisfying (fat in food increases the sense of satiation). Both of us have lost significant amounts of weight and sustained that loss over time. Google "paleo" or "primal" + "diet" and you'll find plenty of information.

I'm skeptical that a high fat diet like that is healthy. I know that low carb diets and Paleo are "en vogue" nowadays but who knows how healthy they really are. I never heard that Paleo is based on 60% fat though.
I tried out both: Low carb a la John Berardi and Paleo. I felt like crap on both, especially on Berardi's diet.
I also tried a vegan diet and felt better and more energetic than on both of these diets.

I didn't lose an ounce while on Paleo because my regular diet contains many natural foods anyway. It's like Paleo except I include legumes, whole grains and dairy.
People who lose weight from Paleo usually go from the average junk diet to paleo so they think it's Paleo that works while it's actually just the choice of better foods and the fact that they don't eat junk anymore.
I didn't try the diets out because I was over-weight(my average weight is about 150 lbs at 5ft 9 1/2) but just to see what they're about.
I advise to eat a diet high in veggies, moderate fruit and whole grains, legumes, eggs, fish(like salmon), seed, nuts, dairy(optional) and occasionally meat. Avoid sugar and processed food..

This kind of diet regulates a natural appetite, has worked for millions and isn't a fad diet that will be out of fashion in ten years. See: Mediterranean and Okinawa diet.
For me weight loss isn't the only important thing but also health.

I also wanted to add that exercise burns enough fat as well no matter what you eat. I find it hard to believe that someone who exercises intensively doesn't lose weight.
The crappiest diet I ever had was when I was a bike messenger because of the lack of time. I cycled 10 hours a day and mostly ate CARBS, junk food like 3 Whoppers, 3 large fries at one meal, and a huge pizza for dinner with several beer and was leaner than lean(long term this diet is just unhealthy). After I suddenly stopped this work, I gained 20 lbs in 3 weeks.
If swimming alone doesn't do the job, intensive bodyweight exercises like boxers train, will do the job. I was the most ripped when I did this in addition to my swimming. Obviously you have to watch the amount you eat but not to the point that you're starving all the time. You'll probably lose more muscle mass than fat if you starve yourself.

In other words: calorie restriction, healthy high fiber food and the right exercise works best from my experience.

Sojerz
November 25th, 2011, 10:25 PM
Protein shakes :)

Protein shakes are controversial - nutrionists seem to indicate they aren't particlularly useful or needed despite all the claims by the companies that make them. Protein is essential to properly recover after a workout, but you can easly obtain the needed proteins and fats from a meal of natural foods. Some concerns about protein shakes were included in a article from Consumer Reports on this forum and referenced a few weeks back (search for it)::worms:
Some shakes have been found to contain heavy metals that would not be good if consumed over time.
Shake supplements can range in protein levels up to as much as 100g per serving. Your body can only digest 5-9 grams of protein per hour. The rest is then burned to produce glycogen, stored as fat, or excreted. The shakes add unaccounted for calories to your diet at such high levels of protein and much of the protein maybe wasted.
Proteins and fats slow digestion and thus slow glycogen repalcement before, during and immediately after workouts. You may want to avoid protein until after the critical glycogen and electrolyte replacement is complete and then get the protein at meals from good lean sources - Salo's book on conditioning indicates about 6-20 g at the next recovery meal.
Good lean sources of protein in natural foods are much less expensive - milk, yogurt, eggs, chicken, lean game meat, and range fed beef for instance. You can also get it from veggies, but need to be sure you get all of the required protein amino acids.
These supplements are not controlled by the
FDA like normal food an drink, there is a real need to carefully research and checkout what your are putting in your body, and you can't rely on the claims of the seller. Caveat emptor.

gaash
November 26th, 2011, 12:04 PM
Protein shakes are controversial - nutrionists seem to indicate they aren't particlularly useful or needed despite all the claims by the companies that make them. Protein is essential to properly recover after a workout, but you can easly obtain the needed proteins and fats from a meal of natural foods. Some concerns about protein shakes were included in a article from Consumer Reports on this forum and referenced a few weeks back (search for it)::worms:
Some shakes have been found to contain heavy metals that would not be good if consumed over time.
Shake supplements can range in protein levels up to as much as 100g per serving. Your body can only digest 5-9 grams of protein per hour. The rest is then burned to produce glycogen, stored as fat, or excreted. The shakes add unaccounted for calories to your diet at such high levels of protein and much of the protein maybe wasted.
Proteins and fats slow digestion and thus slow glycogen repalcement before, during and immediately after workouts. You may want to avoid protein until after the critical glycogen and electrolyte replacement is complete and then get the protein at meals from good lean sources - Salo's book on conditioning indicates about 6-20 g at the next recovery meal.
Good lean sources of protein in natural foods are much less expensive - milk, yogurt, eggs, chicken, lean game meat, and range fed beef for instance. You can also get it from veggies, but need to be sure you get all of the required protein amino acids.
These supplements are not controlled by the
FDA like normal food an drink, there is a real need to carefully research and checkout what your are putting in your body, and you can't rely on the claims of the seller. Caveat emptor.


Think the main benefit of protein shakes is it is the easiest way to get high amounts of protein with little overall calories and contrary to hints at it in this thread, calorie deficit is the key to weight loss. I recommend to those who are interested to research bodybuilding diets and cutting cycles. These people are basically 'competitive dieters' They all count calories, they all eat high protein diets, and they all feel lethargic, weaker, etc. after several weeks of dieting.

Someone with very poor dietary habits who is very overweight can likely lose significant weight by just eating 'healthy foods' and not counting calories but this is unsustainable and given most people reading this thread are probably already active/health concious to some extent, the reality is, calorie deficit = fat loss, and calorie deficit = less energy, body entering a catabolic state, etc. etc. etc. obviously composing those calories out of quality nutritious foods is helpful but it is not the key to fat loss. calorie restriction is. Period.

Lui
November 26th, 2011, 01:18 PM
Although I think that anyone who is overweight most likely does not eat mainly healthy foods. I doubt that anyone ever got overweight from eating too many veggies, fruit, whole grains, fish(like salmon) and lean meat.
They most likely eat too much processed food and sugar.

Long term only healthy food is what keeps people lean and cravings in check. There is a reason why some societies have mainly lean people and others have an obesity problem.

cheakamus
November 26th, 2011, 03:01 PM
I'm skeptical that a high fat diet like that is healthy. I know that low carb diets and Paleo are "en vogue" nowadays but who knows how healthy they really are. I never heard that Paleo is based on 60% fat though.

I'm not sure that Paleo is, in fact, based on a 60% fat component. As I stated before, that 60% figure is from a computer generated analysis of what my wife and I actually eat in a day. Neither of us actually set out to eat a Paleo diet (that just happens to describe more or less what we do eat, except that unlike many Paleo adherents, we also eat dairy products and some legumes). If anything, the diet we set out to eat is more along the lines of the one advocated by the Weston A. Price Foundation.

As far as health goes, and I'm sure we both agree that that is the primary consideration here, I'm more than 100 pounds lighter than I used to be 8-9 years ago when I followed a "heart-healthy," low-fat diet, I recently had a Berkeley Heart Lab analysis of my cholesterol done that showed all parameters in the "good to excellent range," and I lowered the dosage of the anti-hypertensive medication I have long taken by two-thirds. All this under a doctor's supervision, by the way.

cheakamus
November 26th, 2011, 03:09 PM
As for protein shakes, one thing I think no one has mentioned is that the protein source in most is soy, and there are good reasons not to want to consume too much soy in your diet (if you can help it like HFCS, it's everywhere these days). Incidentally, most of the soy consumed in Asia has been fermented, which is a very different thing.

gaash
November 26th, 2011, 03:47 PM
As for protein shakes, one thing I think no one has mentioned is that the protein source in most is soy, and there are good reasons not to want to consume too much soy in your diet (if you can help it like HFCS, it's everywhere these days). Incidentally, most of the soy consumed in Asia has been fermented, which is a very different thing.

Actually the most common source is by far whey which is derived from milk. Soy is probably also lower on the list than casein another milk derived product.

gaash
November 26th, 2011, 03:50 PM
I'm not sure that Paleo is, in fact, based on a 60% fat component. As I stated before, that 60% figure is from a computer generated analysis of what my wife and I actually eat in a day. Neither of us actually set out to eat a Paleo diet (that just happens to describe more or less what we do eat, except that unlike many Paleo adherents, we also eat dairy products and some legumes). If anything, the diet we set out to eat is more along the lines of the one advocated by the Weston A. Price Foundation.

As far as health goes, and I'm sure we both agree that that is the primary consideration here, I'm more than 100 pounds lighter than I used to be 8-9 years ago when I followed a "heart-healthy," low-fat diet, I recently had a Berkeley Heart Lab analysis of my cholesterol done that showed all parameters in the "good to excellent range," and I lowered the dosage of the anti-hypertensive medication I have long taken by two-thirds. All this under a doctor's supervision, by the way.

I think the biggest issue with long term studies of diets is that they do not normalize for calories accurately. I have yet to see much convincing evidence that the reasons red meat eaters are less healthy is due to the red meat and not due to the likelihood that red meat eaters eat more total calories and lead less healthy lifestyles overall (e.g. if you eat a lot of burgers you probably also eat a lot of fries).

cheakamus
November 26th, 2011, 04:22 PM
Personally, I don't eat a lot of burgers, mainly because I don't eat wheat and what's the point of a burger without the bun? As a red-meat eater, though, I have to say I probably eat fewer overall calories from red meat now than in the past. That's because the meat I buy now is very expensive hamburger $6.50/lb direct from the farmer; other cuts, much more so I tend to eat far smaller portions. I do enjoy fries from time to time, but only those I make myself in the oven.

Bottom line, I agree with you. You can't lose weight without reducing calories. Where I differ is that I believe you can cut calories without feeling starved all the time. There are calories, and then there are calories!

jaadams1
November 26th, 2011, 04:24 PM
I think they sell Protien Shakes at Dairy Queen. I get one quite often after an evening practice, and they come in all sorts of flavors. I prefer, caramel, but often get cherry, strawberry, and sometimes peanut butter flavor. Yum!! :bliss:

swimmerb212
November 27th, 2011, 06:09 AM
People who lose weight from Paleo usually go from the average junk diet to paleo so they think it's Paleo that works while it's actually just the choice of better foods and the fact that they don't eat junk anymore.


That is exactly it. It's the same reason people lose weight when they alter percentages of fat or carbs or whatever. The only way to lose weight it to eat less food than you normally do. It also helps if the food is whole and nutritious, because it's good fuel.

I pretty much weigh the same amount as I did before I started swimming four years ago. It's is annoying as all get-out, but I do have significantly improved muscle tone in some places, and I have much better stamina than before, which helps energize me to be enraged when people say, "the weight just fell off as soon as I took up swimming!" :blah:

The only success I ever had at losing weight came from logging everything I ate. At first I was counting calories, and trying to stop when I hit a certain number for the day, but eventually it made me more accountable for all those little "this doesn't count" snacks I ate, and made me more aware of the absolute density of foods like granola bars, energy bars and smoothies, which I had been treating as a light snack.

I'm not ready to always be hungry again, so I habitually eat a lot to compensate for the calorie loss to swimming.

ElaineK
November 27th, 2011, 10:03 AM
Protein shakes are controversial - nutrionists seem to indicate they aren't particlularly useful or needed despite all the claims by the companies that make them. Protein is essential to properly recover after a workout, but you can easly obtain the needed proteins and fats from a meal of natural foods. Some concerns about protein shakes were included in a article from Consumer Reports on this forum and referenced a few weeks back (search for it)::worms:


That may have been me. I scanned the article and still have it on my computer. If anybody is interested in reading it, send me a PM with your e-mail address and I will send back the article.

Instead of protein shakes, I drink 8th Continent Light Chocolate Soy Milk after my workouts. Not only is it less expensive; it tastes great, has the protein I need, and is only 90 calories for 8oz. :2cents:

Sojerz
November 27th, 2011, 07:04 PM
I think the CR article was a previous post by ElaineK, and it can be printed. I've used protein shakes for probalby 50 years, especially when pinched for time. Mine are whey and about 24g of protein per shake, so when i use them i cut the serving in half. Back in the day we also had the drink of astronauts "Tang" too, I suppose in case we wanted to orbit the pool instead of swim in it :). Never tried dairy queens protein shakes, but "Freshen Smoothies and Frozen Treats" actually sells them at a service area on the NJ Turnpike (driving on the NJ Turnpike is a legit sport) and they are good. Will check out DQ's too. should they be used as a staple in your normal diet?

Protein shakes seem to be a major component of body building, weight lifting and their associated diets. Their use of protein and other supplements seems complex and carefully managed to me. And, this may not be a good model for the average athlete (esp. HS age) to follow without the required knowledge, experience or coaching that body builders employ.

The levels of heavy metals cited in some of these protein shakes are a potential cause for concern. From my experience with drinking water quality and haz waste sites, EPA limits exposure to heavy metals because of toxicity from consumption. I don't recall if any of the metals found by CR are both toxic and also carcinogens, but possibly. Of course, like most substances, "it's the dose that counts". The more you ingest, the higher the dose, and the greater the risk. I don't think the CR article actually looked at the issues of dose and standards exceedance or at the issue of multiple sources (might you also be ingesting these substances from other sources too). Do you want these substances at any level in something you ingest? I don't. It would seem prudent, especially if you are using these shakes as a major diet component, and not just occaisonal supplement, to check out what's in them in addition to protein. While the FDA does not apparretly regulate the protein supplements sold, I think they regulate shakes sold commercially as foods by DQ and others.

Lui
November 27th, 2011, 08:36 PM
That is exactly it. It's the same reason people lose weight when they alter percentages of fat or carbs or whatever. The only way to lose weight it to eat less food than you normally do. It also helps if the food is whole and nutritious, because it's good fuel.


This has been my opinion for years even though low carb gurus want to tell you the opposite.
I do believe that the lack of fiber in your diet leads to over-weight though. Many diets contradict each other but what almost all diets(Paleo, low carb, low fat, the Mediterranean, Okinawan etc) have in common is eat a lot of veggies. I think if someone eats tons of veggies he provides his body with enough fiber and nutrients. A good way to get enough veggies is juicing. I drink a veggie/fruit juice every morning as my only breakfast.
I would drink a fresh veggie/fruit juice over a protein shake any day.

I can recommend this book: Amazon.com: Complete Book of Juicing: Your Delicious Guide to Youthful Vitality (9780761511267): Michael T. Murray: Books

fatboy
November 27th, 2011, 09:46 PM
I do believe that the lack of fiber in your diet leads to over-weight though. Many diets contradict each other but what almost all diets(Paleo, low carb, low fat, the Mediterranean, Okinawan etc) have in common is eat a lot of veggies. I think if someone eats tons of veggies he provides his body with enough fiber and nutrients. A good way to get enough veggies is juicing.

Agree that veggies are good for weight control, but doesn't juicing remove all the fiber?

gaash
November 27th, 2011, 10:00 PM
No one argues that veggies and fruits aren't good for you... but they do not make up other critical components of a diet, particularly for athletes, the question is, where to get protein from. That is the bigger problem in dieting than eating fruits and veggies which have few calories anyway.

Lui
November 27th, 2011, 10:29 PM
No one argues that veggies and fruits aren't good for you... but they do not make up other critical components of a diet, particularly for athletes, the question is, where to get protein from. That is the bigger problem in dieting than eating fruits and veggies which have few calories anyway.

What's the problem of eating a diet of mainly whole foods and not processed junk? If man made it, don't eat it.
If a person eats a diet of whole food like mainly veggies, then fruit, fish, lean meat, legumes, eggs, whole grains, seeds and nuts and maybe dairy as billions of people around the world have eaten for centuries, they stay lean.
Billions of Asians prove it.
It is only when modern countries like the USA invented convenience food that obesity started to develop. It's funny how the fattest country in the world then wants to teach the rest of the world how to eat right with fad diets like low carb, high fat, Paleo or other theories they come up with to make money.
This info just to eat whole natural food isn't new. Jack Lalanne told people this 50 years ago on his tv show.

Lui
November 27th, 2011, 10:39 PM
Agree that veggies are good for weight control, but doesn't juicing remove all the fiber?

Hehe...that's the first question in the "Answers to common questions about juicing" section of the book I recommended. I'm actually to lazy to type the answer but I personally use a blender and drink the pulp too.
I actually make fruit and/or veggie shakes rather than juices but I eat a lot of veggies too.

gaash
November 27th, 2011, 10:41 PM
What's the problem of eating a diet of mainly whole foods and not processed junk? If man made it, don't eat it.
If a person eats a diet of whole food like mainly veggies, then fruit, fish, lean meat, legumes, eggs, whole grains, seeds and nuts and maybe dairy as billions of people around the world have eaten for centuries, they stay lean.
Billions of Asians prove it.
It is only when modern countries like the USA invented convenience food that obesity started to develop. It's funny how the fattest country in the world then wants to teach the rest of the world how to eat right with fad diets like low carb, high fat, Paleo or other theories they come up with to make money.
This info just to eat whole natural food isn't new. Jack Lalanne told people this 50 years ago on his tv show.

Non processed food is probably healthier. But diet and weight is about CALORIES. We eat way more calories than other people that is why we are fat. Whether they come in the form of twinkies or vegetables makes little difference. It is why fad diets 'work' they just try to trick people into eating less calories without counting calories. Give up carbs, etc. means giving up calories. Eating healthy is great, but you can't get around the calorie issue. If you eat 5000 calories a day of healthy natural food you are still getting fat. Bottomline, no substitute for counting calories. Getting it from natural healthy foods is obviously better than getting it from candy bars but calories are king and the reason I see many a friends diet fail is because they think they can eat healthy and not count calories to reach their goals. Sorry.

Lui
November 27th, 2011, 11:06 PM
Non processed food is probably healthier. But diet and weight is about CALORIES. We eat way more calories than other people that is why we are fat.

Never doubted that. My point is just that if you eat 5000 kcal of crap every day, month after month, year after year, you will be giving your body loads of food but not the amount of nutrients the body needs. Over a long course of time people on crap diets will be craving more and more calories because they eat but don't get enough nutrients so they are still starving. That's why they're always hungry.
If a person eats mainly healthy food, he gives his body the nutrients it needs. If he always eats healthy his body will adjust to the right amount of calories. Long term this works.
What you're suggesting is that a person should eat a low amount of calories and feel like crap, and then he will shed the pounds which is true but then what? He will most likely start to eat more food again and gain more weight than before.

The healthy eating version won't shed weight within 4 weeks but long term a person who is used to eating 5000 kcal on a junk food diet will start to adjust his calorie intake to the natural calorie intake he needs.

People don't have to believe me. It's just MY experience. Maybe if you're a bodybuilder who needs to lose body fat really fast for a specific competition where he needs a really low body fat percentage, the "starve yourself and feel like crap method" works because he only needs to do this for a competition but for the person who wants to stay lean all his life this method sucks because no one can stay on this method without feeling miserable...sorry.

swimmerb212
November 29th, 2011, 02:17 PM
No one argues that veggies and fruits aren't good for you... but they do not make up other critical components of a diet, particularly for athletes, the question is, where to get protein from. That is the bigger problem in dieting than eating fruits and veggies which have few calories anyway.

The thing that's important about eating fresh veggies is that you burn a lot of calories just by the constant chewing motion.

I'm usually spent after the jaw workout a big salad gives me.

swimslick
November 29th, 2011, 05:41 PM
Well i think its pretty hard for anyone to give you good advice on this without knowing a few things....like how much are you swimming? How long have you been at it? What does your daily food intake look like? What are your weight loss goals? etc.

Before I started with Masters, I lost almost 20 pounds by simply tracking my calories. I used Sparkpeople.com, set my goals on there, and stuck to the calorie limit they gave me in order to lose the amount of weight I wanted to within a certain time. I added in a little bit more exercise (10 extra mins on the elliptical, 500 more yards during my 1x a week swim), but that weight loss was truly all about counting calories.

So that prompted me to join Masters, and I went straight into a 3-4x a week schedule. When I first started, for about six weeks I literally was a BOTTOMLESS PIT. Calorie counting went out the window, and I shoveled SO MUCH food into my mouth and I was still ALWAYS hungry. It was crazy! However, I luckily did not gain (nor lose) any weight.

After the first six weeks, my apetite finally seemed to adjust back to normal. Those NEED FOOD NOW cravings dissappeared and I am no longer using a shovel to eat. However, I've been at it for 4 months now and I still have not lost nor gained any more weight. I would be frustrated as heck if it weren't for the fact that the INCHES are falling off my body! I've lost about 1.5 pant sizes thus far while maintaining the same weight, and that is fine by me. I think if I keep at this for a year and started counting calories again (snoooore) I could lose some more pounds, but it will probably only be a handful and that would bring me down to the weight that I was in high school. Who knows, if I continue to train steadily for a few years I probably could get really lean, but that is not an upfront goal of mine for now.

So, my point here is to have hope! Keep at it! Its about the long run here, and your key ingredient here may just be time :) If you really want meal replacement type foods, I suggest chocolate milk or greek yogurt, aka, REAL foods. Good luck!