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bjk
October 29th, 2003, 08:19 PM
Why are SC nationals in April this year? I hope this won't happen in future years. This has really changed our training schedule i.e. it makes it a short winter! Also here in Colorado it conflicts with ski season. Does anyone agree with me?

michaelmoore
October 30th, 2003, 12:50 AM
I agree with you - it will conflict with the Colorado ski season.

Indianapolis has another major event in May. That event tends to bid up the price of hotel rooms. And there are more people who will go to Indianapolis for the 500 than go there for a swim meet.

There was also only ONE bid for the 2005 SCY yards meet.

I hope it wont happen in future years, but I would like to thank Mel Goldstein who has come through to help with the national championships. Without him, you would not be having a great facility to compete in.

Championship Committee could always use more help in identifying places to hold the National Championships, and then convincing the facility management that they would really like to hold a major meet there.

But look at it this way, you have six months to get ready ;) . Happy training.


michael

Sabretooth Tiger
November 1st, 2003, 11:58 AM
Has the decision regarding the 2005 SCY Nationals been made?

bjk
November 1st, 2003, 02:10 PM
What about considering Ft Lauderdale again or southern California for a May meet. Don't they want us anymore? Is there a way we can be more attractive to the good pools? Do we need to spend more, provide more volunteers, etc.
I'd be glad to help with identifying other locations for nationals.

Matt S
November 3rd, 2003, 05:20 PM
BJK,

That is a very classy response. Plenty of USMS swimmers complain about aspects of Nationals that they do not care for, and those are useful data points for the people who organize the meets.

Very few of the people complaining take the next step of offering to help out. I appreciate and respect your response to Michael's post. Please follow through. We need more folks like you.

Matt

cinc3100
November 4th, 2003, 01:54 AM
Well what wrong with Indy. Mission Viejo is a 30 year pool while the Indianapolis pool was built in the late 1990's. I'm not putting down Mission Viejo but there are more modern pools around. So, what wrong with having the indy pool or some midwest pool that is a little more contempoary.

cinc3100
November 4th, 2003, 01:58 AM
Even Long Beach to get the olympic trails had to use a portable pool since their pool is also past 30 years old. Why does the person in CO think that Southern Cal and FL have modern pools. They have a few that were built in the 1990's but many of them were built circa 1966 to 1985. So, their no better pools than many places in the US.

bjk
November 4th, 2003, 09:50 AM
I only suggest Florida and California because they have outdoor pools - just like Arizona. After a long winter swimming indoors an outdoor pool in May for nationals is the best - also low altitude is always appreciated.

I grew up swimming at meets in the midwest --- indoor pools!!

Bert Bergen
November 4th, 2003, 10:56 AM
Slow down people. There are plenty of great pools everywhere, however that is not the issue. The meets don't run themselves. A team or organization needs to bid for a meet and that is what Indy has done successfully (as well as under duress, at least once!) There have been the same group of consistent hosts (Indy, Santa Clara, Federal Way), along with some great new ones, but our efforts should be directed at finding new hosts/pools to help. If not, we could actually face a year when each area's Zone meet serves as "Nationals" as there will be no single National Championship to attend. I'd love for UC San Diego (SDSM), USC (SCAQ), a Florida site, Auburn, a Texas site, among others bid for SCY.

breastroker
November 4th, 2003, 01:27 PM
Bert,
I have tried as past Southwest Zone Chairman to get a regional championship meet in San Diego. I continue to support them if they would host a regio0nal meet. They do not have the people to put one on.

There are two problems with many of the places you mention.

First: There has to be a dedicated group of full time volunteers to run a national swim meet. Thousands of man hours are spent arranging hotels, transportation, officials, timers etc. Your are absolutely correct about Indy, Federal Way, they have great organizations behind the organizers. USMS needs to get the word out to other pools that are able to host a Nationals. Mission Viejo under Coach Mark has really invigorated masters swimming in his area. The 2005 Long Course nationals will be at Mission Viejo, and I am sure it will be one of the best. Hopefully when Irvine gets their pools built they will be able to host a short course yards nationals in this decade.


Second, the pool rental has to be low enough to at least have the host committee to break even. At one time the host committees were able to make a nice profit to help their clubs grow. Of course if the profit devided by the man hours would work out to less than a dollar an hour!

Ever wonder why SPMA doesn't run meets at USC or the Rosebowl? Because the cost of pool rental is so high that is is nearly impossible to break even.

Lucy Johnson spent a lot of time trying to get a swim meet at the Long Beach Olympic trials portable pools. Unfortunately any meet would have had to be on a Monday through Friday time frame:mad:

cinc310,
I doubt that any of your swims or anyone else will be affected by the "OLD Mission Viejo Pool". The main influence on fast times are pool depth, laneline design, and gutter system. Mission Viejo is deep, has modern gutters and the lane lines are good enough for World records to be set. Yes, there are slightly better pools, perhaps the Olympic pool in Sydney being the best.

Now I personally do have a problem with some of the older pools like Santa Clara with less than 5 feet of starting depth. Give me a swim meet in a diving pool every time.:D

Several people have aluded to the real issue in this forum, a lot of talk, we need people to help. Bert has been on the SPMA committee before, and continues to help. But I am sure that cinc310 can help in Arizona, and others.

Bert Bergen
November 4th, 2003, 06:11 PM
I'm with you, Waye. I was pointing out that those would be great sites, but a huge organizing group (with deep pockets) needs to be in place first. SCAQ couldn't pull it off anyway despite how large they are coupled with their "unique" insurance situation and I doubt SDSM has the resources (and second pool) to run a Nationals meet at UCSD. MVN's LCM bid is a huge step forward for SPMA.

cinc3100
November 8th, 2003, 09:32 PM
I think its still a good pool Just pointing out there nothing wrong with other pools. By the way, read that Newport Harbor like Irvine is doing reconstrucation on their pool. Mission needs to think about this. Irvine has dominated the local swim scene in Orange County during the past decade, if Mission wants to have people make the olympics beyond 2004, it needs to be competitive with Irvine. One way is to do work on their pool. Its good for our nationals the way it is(the pool). Also, Mission Viejo is in a nice suburban area that looks like OC of the 1970's and the crime rate is low not an Anaheim or Santa Ana. And everyone can choose between Disneyland or going to Seaworld in San Diego for a social special at nationals..

Paul Smith
November 9th, 2003, 10:28 AM
A couple of comments;

- Hi Barb!

- I actuallly prefer having an earlier SCY meet, the problem with having it in May is it doesn't allow much training time till LCM

- The topic of hosting nationals was brought up at the convention, a number of people made note of how the current process is a bit adversarial and not "proactive".

Thanks to Mel, a couple of us have taken the lead in going after locations rather than waiting for them to come to USMS. FYI, a number of the sites mentioned in this thread now have bid packets in hand and hopefully will seriously consider hosting in the coming years.

We all want fast pool and beautiful surroundings!

Conniekat8
November 26th, 2003, 01:12 PM
Mission Viejo Pool is undergoing some very nice renovations that will be done mid 2004, with plenty of time for nationals in 2005.
As for the pools, I've swam in Newport Harbor and Irvine and several other pools in this area before coming to Mission, and Mission Viejo Pool is by far the nicest.

The pools were resurfaced just few years ago, and the Offices, deck, concourse, bleachers etc are being renovated as we speak.

It actually has 3 pools in the complex, one 50Mx25Y pool, and two 25Yx25M pools, one with a diving well, the other is a teaching pool.

It is also situated on a pretty large chunk of land, so there is ample room for concourse, bleachers, office facilities etc.

The only facility that I have seen that is of comparable caliber is Long Beach pool (I'm not sure of it's proper name, plus it's indoors, so it's comparing apples and oranges).

I'm not sure what "30 year old" has to do with all this...
Mission pool has very nice gutters, it is a deep(fast) pool, wide lanes... Kept very up to date and well maintained.

Also, I think it's due some major Kudos for managing to be open and even host a number of events even while under renovations.

My apologies if my response comes across as little harsh.
I would like to invite people who have doubts about the facility to come and visit it before they pass judgement. About the facility or it's adequacy.

Also, there is some limited PR material showing off the pool, available at our team website, along with A PDF file of our 2005 National's Bid detailing additional information about the pool. www.mastersmvnswim.org (http://www.mastersmvnswim.org)

Thank You

cinc3100
November 26th, 2003, 03:41 PM
Well, I swam in the pool 30 years ago. And then it was considered the state of the art then. If they have done recent work thats fine. But each person is different. I even knew people who swam good at the old LA pool built in 1932. What I'm tired of is people from the western states knocking down pools in other parts of the country. The Indy pool even held the olympic trails. Neither Long Beach Belmont Shores or Mission Viejo are to this now. This means that the USA swimming didn't feel that the Long Beach pool built around 1968 is up for the 2004 Olympic trails. That doesn't mean that its bad for master swimming nationals. And pools do need to be updated, if they are 30 years old and older. I remember swimming in the LA pool that was use in the 1932 olympics. This was in 1972 and it was dated by then. Also, Misson Viejo talks about National Championships. Most of these occured under Mark during the 1970's and 1980's. And the area has not suffered like Northern Orange County has with the growth of low-skilled immirgrants. There are a lot of middle to upper middle class families that live in the area, and why they are beaten out by the Irvine Novas for the past 10 years, I don't know.

Conniekat8
November 26th, 2003, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by breastroker

Mission Viejo under Coach Mark has really invigorated masters swimming in his area. The 2005 Long Course nationals will be at Mission Viejo, and I am sure it will be one of the best.

Wayne, thank you for kind words and a vote of confidence :)

And if I may, a shameless plug for out wonderful masters Coach Mark Moore. Since he has been able to take on coaching full time, roughly couple of years ago, the Mission Viejo Nadadores Masters team has grown from some 20-ish to 120-ish people, and growing stronger. (Novas watch out!)
The man has endless patience and dedication! (In addition to experience and education)

A commentary to Cinc's question about Nova's, their home town, Irvine has similar demographics to the area that is home to Mission Viejo pool, so there is just as much talent and family/community backing in Irvine as there is in Mission Viejo area.
There is a very healthy rivalry between Irvine Nova's and MV Nadadores.

cinc3100
November 26th, 2003, 07:23 PM
They are similar but a little different in demographics. Irvine is about 30 percent Asian while Mission is about 8 percent. There income levels are similar.

breastroker
November 26th, 2003, 07:53 PM
Just one example of Mission Viejos resurgance is their web site, probably the best new team web site out there. Check it out at http://www.mastersmvnswim.org/

cinc310, I don't think you understand some things, the Long Beach pool is not being used in the Olympic trials because it is ONE pool. Not because it isn't modern enough.

Southern California has several new 50 meter pools, so they are being built. One in Santa Monica, now one in Santa Clarita. There will be one in Thousand Oaks soon. We invite all Masters to come to SPMA and swim in some of the modern pools. We have a SCY meet in the new Las Vegas pool January 10th, 2004. Another SCY in Santa Clarita February 14th, and LMU pool April 18th. All in modern 50 meter pools. Come on Cynthia, visit the finest.

As many have said before, it is the organization behind the meet host that puts on great Nationals. When we could not do it in the 90s with the largest team in masters, for Coach Mark Moore and his group to pull it off is great.

I invite anyone in Masters to come out March 21, 2004 to the Mission Viejo SCY meet and see how they do a great meet.
Here is every ones chance to get some sun, a great swim meet, some good food, and check out the new facility. Just look for me in the Jacussi under the diving boards. You might get a chance to swim with some of the former Olympic Champions that swim for Coach Mark.

Wayne McCauley
SPMA Chairman

cinc3100
November 26th, 2003, 08:49 PM
I feel to have good master swimming in SO Cal and Arizona we need to deal with the immirgant problem. Having lived near and work in Santa Ana Calfornia I seen rapid changes. At one time Santa Ana had similar incomes to Mission Viejo. It even had a large hispanic middle class. Then the immirgation levels skyrocked in the 1980's and 1990's. In fact, the major pastime in Santa Ana now is soccer. Also, it has more crowded housing than even LA or New York city. Santa Ana like the southside in Tucson has some swimming pools but there are less involved with either age group swimming or masters. I feel that we don't need to develop a New York swim program. Where most of the swimming takes place in nice suburbs like Long Island and few of it in older suburbs or the city.

Conniekat8
November 27th, 2003, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by breastroker
Just one example of Mission Viejos resurgance is their web site, probably the best new team web site out there. Check it out at http://www.mastersmvnswim.org/

I invite anyone in Masters to come out March 21, 2004 to the Mission Viejo SCY meet and see how they do a great meet.
Here is every ones chance to get some sun, a great swim meet, some good food, and check out the new facility. Just look for me in the Jacussi under the diving boards. You might get a chance to swim with some of the former Olympic Champions that swim for Coach Mark.

Wayne McCauley
SPMA Chairman

And for those who can't wait, here are some photos from our 2003 LCM Zone meet, you can see out facility, volunteers, swimmers and guest swimmers in action. If I remember correctly, there were couple dozen world records set at that event, if not more.
We work hard, swim fast and have fun.

SPMA ZONE Championship 2003 at Mission Photos (http://mastersmvnswim.org/images/2003%20LCM%20Zone/MVNM.htm)

Sabretooth Tiger
November 27th, 2003, 04:25 PM
Ms. Curran, exactly what is the "immigrant problem" to which you refer?

Conniekat8
November 27th, 2003, 10:56 PM
:eek: I'm an immigrant!
Is that a problem??? :(

:D ;)

Bert Bergen
November 28th, 2003, 08:43 PM
Santa Ana is 30 miles from Mission Viejo. Why does Santa Ana come up ALL THE TIME? What do "immigrants" have to do with the topic at hand? The tangents that some of these threads get taken to by specific individuals is so strangly left-field, I have to simply shake my head in amazement.

allswims
December 1st, 2003, 11:30 AM
By the way, Indy was built in the early 80's not the 1990's, as suggested in an earlier posting by Cinc310. I swam there for US Nationals in about 1982 or 1983 and then again for NCAAs in 1984. I also believe that Olympic Trials were there in 1984.

Rob Copeland
December 1st, 2003, 03:43 PM
Andrea,

Thanks for making me feel old. I swam at the USMS nationals in Indianapolis in 1983.

Does California’s "immigrant problem" have anything to do with a governor whose name is impossible to spell and who has trouble pronouncing the state’s name (ka-l&-'for-ny&)?

Conniekat8
December 16th, 2003, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by cinc310
has dominated the local swim scene in Orange County during the past decade, if Mission wants to have people make the olympics beyond 2004, it needs to be competitive with Irvine.

Well, Mission Viejo Master's just beat Novas in the winter regionals! So there! :p

read about it in our weekly news:
http://mastersmvnswim.org/