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View Full Version : Kevin Doak is tearing it up



Herb
January 25th, 2012, 12:00 AM
check out those times in 30-34 sprints free, back, fly.

Fresnoid
January 25th, 2012, 01:14 AM
check out those times in 30-34 sprints free, back, fly.

No one is going to check it out unless you provide a link to what you are talking about.

Chris Stevenson
January 25th, 2012, 08:37 AM
http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/meetsearch.php?c=380085&MeetID=20120115EMUY

Frank Thompson
January 25th, 2012, 10:20 AM
You can read about Kevin's times from the meet on his website here at www.kevindoak.com. I was at the meet and witnessed these performances and he is swimming as fast as he was in college 8 years ago.

One of the Records he broke was the almost 20 year National Record by Clay Britt in the 100 Yard Back. Ironically, Hugh Rodin was watching the race and remembered the 1992 Nationals in North Carolina where this swim was performed. He remembered well because it was the first time he won a National Championship in the 200 Back and his son Jeff, just a rookie, won 6 events in his first Nationals.

__steve__
January 25th, 2012, 11:59 AM
His 100 back is still a record for 30-34 (and his 50). I looked at the usms records and that wasn't as fast as the record for 40-44. But then the silly suit reality comes in and complicates matters even though the differences in many cases can be negligible.

Frank Thompson
January 25th, 2012, 12:28 PM
Kevin's fast, he's in the Men's 30-34 age group, but there's been several elite swimmers in their 30's who were much faster but didn't USMS register or submit their times for consideration like Jason Lezak, Josh Davis, Gary Hall, Neil Walker or Anthony Ervin.
Jason went 19.31 when he was 30 & 42.46 when he was 32.
Neil Walker, when he was 31, went 22.02 in the 50 bk, 47.23 in the 100 fly, & 1:34.44 in the 200 free.
Josh C Davis, when he was 30, went 1:43.31 in the 200 scy bk & 1:48.38 in the 200 LCM free

Just sayin, Kevin's swims look awesome at a Masters meet & he's hidden in the heats at a USS meet like a Grand Prix, nationals or Trials.

USASwimming.org's INDIVIDUAL TIMES SEARCH INFORMATION (http://www.usaswimming.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=1470&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en-US)

Event // Kevin went // USMS men's 30 - 34 record / Unsubmitted time by a 30 - 34 are:

50 Fr 20.61 / 19.85 / 19.31

100 Fr 45.29 / 44.53 / 42.46

50 Bk 22.64 / 22.64 / 22.02

100 Bk 48.93 / 48.93 /

100 FL 49.72 / 47.77 / 47.23

Nobody said he was the fastest on the planet. People are commenting because Kirk Nelson mentioned these swims on the broken records thread and that they break USMS Records. I think that we as USMS members should be proud when one of our members is achieving success. I really don't think we should be insulting our members because they are not swimming as fast as professional swimmers and olympians.

This is the second time this has happened on this forum and I don't appreciate this at all especially from you Ande, because you seem to really encourage masters swimmers to do there best and be happy with performances and goals that they achieve.

I don't think anyone on here is being overly boastful about this so I don't see any reason why there are insults.

swimmieAvsFan
January 25th, 2012, 12:49 PM
Nobody said he was the fastest on the planet. People are commenting because Kirk Nelson mentioned these swims on the broken records thread and that they break USMS Records. I think that we as USMS members should be proud when one of our members is achieving success. I really don't think we should be insulting our members because they are not swimming as fast as professional swimmers and olympians.

This is the second time this has happened on this forum and I don't appreciate this at all especially from you Ande, because you seem to really encourage masters swimmers to do there best and be happy with performances and goals that they achieve.

I don't think anyone on here is being overly boastful about this so I don't see any reason why there are insults.

Ande, not to dog-pile or anything, but I completely agree with what Frank said in the post I quoted. To add to Frank's post, it's also irrelevant if they're faster and haven't registered for USMS or properly submitted their swims. Kevin is the fastest one who's played by all the rules and we should be praising his swims, not denigrating them.

ande
January 25th, 2012, 12:53 PM
Nobody said he was the fastest on the planet. People are commenting because Kirk Nelson mentioned these swims on the broken records thread and that they break USMS Records. I think that we as USMS members should be proud when one of our members is achieving success. I really don't think we should be insulting our members because they are not swimming as fast as professional swimmers and olympians. This is the second time this has happened on this forum and I don't appreciate this at all especially from you Ande, because you seem to really encourage masters swimmers to do there best and be happy with performances and goals that they achieve. I don't think anyone on here is being overly boastful about this so I don't see any reason why there are insults.

Frank,
I was just presenting information, wasn't trying to insult anyone. Kevin's a remarkable swimmer, it's great he's swimming in USMS meets & breaking records.

I deleted my post & now it only exists because you quoted it.

Should USMS and FINA recognize times done by swimmers of various ages as records even if they aren't usms members or submit the times to USMS or FINA?

Frank Thompson
January 25th, 2012, 01:46 PM
Frank,
I was just presenting information, wasn't trying to insult anyone. Kevin's a remarkable swimmer, it's great he's swimming in USMS meets & breaking records.

I deleted my post & now it only exists because you quoted it.

Should USMS and FINA recognize times done by swimmers of various ages as records even if they aren't usms members or submit the times to USMS or FINA?

Ande:

I might have reacted a little harshly and for that I am sorry but the first time this happened, Kevin quit the forum and you might have remembered it. It was back in 2007, I believe.

To answer your question, I don't believe swimmers of various ages that are non members should credited for USMS and FINA Masters Records. Now I believe that if a swimmer is a USMS member and submits times achieved in USA Swimming meets, then yes they should count as USMS Records.

The one stumbling block in all this is the USMS Rules of multiple pool measurements in USA Swimming meets in which they do not require this to happen. Most swimmers will not go thru this after every session and if they don't, there swims will not count for Records or Top Ten. USA Swimming requires a pool measurement at the beginning of the meet by a registered surveyor for the major meets such as Nationals, Grand Prix's, and US Opens. For the local meets they do not require this.

I don't advocate that USMS should do this because it would be to costly. A measurement is required if a World, American, and US Open record is broken and the surveyor must measure the lane that the swim was competed in. This happened with Peter Vanderkaay when he broke his record in the 500 Free at Oakland University and they had to measure the lane after the meet. I think if a masters swimmer breaks a record he should request a measurement of the lane after the session and be responsible to bring the measuring device preferably a laser. I think his times should be submitted without a measurement if the swimmer did not break a record. I think a USA sanction swim without a record should automatically transfer to USMS if a pool measurement was made at the beginning of the meet.

I don't believe USA swimming times if they are records or not should not count unless they are members. Recently, Natalie Coughlin swam as a USMS registered swimmer in a sanctioned masters meet and requested that her times not count for records or top ten and I believe USMS will honor that request. The point I am making here is not every Olympian, Professional, and masters aged swimmer wants there times to count for USMS and so to just pick up times on the USA Swimming site would not be a good idea.

FINA goes a step further because they want all of the Masters World Records to be done in member nation sanctioned meets. They don't want someone to just buy a membership and never swim in a masters meet to get a Masters World Record. They make the distinction that if you swim in a FINA Member Sanctioned Swim meet, that your times achieved in that meet should be counted for the sanctioned swim meet and nothing else. Its hard to argue with this because they believe if you break a masters record it must be in the masters arena against masters swimmers.

As far as just taking any swimmer in the World and having there swims count for any kinds of records is wrong and could ruin the masters organization because it disrespects the members that do get the top swims and records and they pay and support the organization and strangers do not. I mean why join this organization if you can just swim in non masters meets and get top rewards for doing it.

There are just tons of swimmers that could just destroy our record book being non members of masters around the world. In fact, I have come across this on Top Performance web sites where they give credit to non members as having masters world records when none of these people are members and probably don't care. If a swimmer wants a masters world records, he should register and swim in a masters sanctioned competition. In USMS, he just needs to be a member and follow the rules to get swims counted. That is not asking much, because I am sure they can afford the membership fee to belong to USMS.

Rob Copeland
January 25th, 2012, 02:28 PM
This is the second time this has happened on this forum...I wish it was only the second time this has happened.

And thank you for reminding us that we can be proud of the accomplishments of Masters Swimmers, be they Olympian or someone just breaking two minutes in the 50 free.:cheerleader:

jroddin
January 25th, 2012, 02:57 PM
And thank you for reminding us that we can be proud of the accomplishments of Masters Swimmers, be they Olympian or someone just breaking two minutes in the 50 free.:cheerleader:

Or breaking 2 seconds on their start reaction time in a 200 fly...:D

Rob Copeland
January 25th, 2012, 03:10 PM
Or breaking 2 seconds on their start reaction time in a 200 fly...:DSome of us can only dream of such things...

knelson
January 25th, 2012, 03:20 PM
Recently, Natalie Coughlin swam as a USMS registered swimmer in a sanctioned masters meet and requested that her times not count for records or top ten and I believe USMS will honor that request.

This is actually an interesting scenario. Should the times not count for records because the swimmer requests them not be counted? I think I can understand what Coughlin was trying to do, but the fact remains that she did establish new USMS records. How can someone opt out of a record?

That Guy
January 25th, 2012, 03:28 PM
How can someone opt out of a record?
By not filling out the paperwork?

Rob Copeland
January 25th, 2012, 03:34 PM
105.3.8 When a record is claimed, an official USMS record application form (Appendix B) shall be filled out, signed by the designated officials and transmitted…

knelson
January 25th, 2012, 03:51 PM
Duh. I guess that would do it.

orca1946
January 25th, 2012, 04:50 PM
Still, her times would wipe out others records. She is aware of others liking to be in the record books. She feels , I think,as if she has enough awareness of her times in the Olympics.

lefty
January 27th, 2012, 11:33 AM
I appreciate the gesture, but Nat should not be able to opt out of the record. Records have to be black and white for them to mean anything.

Chris Stevenson
January 27th, 2012, 11:41 AM
By not filling out the paperwork?


I appreciate the gesture, but Nat should not be able to opt out of the record. Records have to be black and white for them to mean anything.

The paperwork is filled out by others, often the meet director. They may respect Coughlin's wishes of course, but maybe they would feel as lefty does and send it in anyway. (Personally, if I were that meet director and wanted Coughlin to attend future USMS meets, I would probably respect her wishes.)

However, proof of birth date (eg, birth certificate or passport) is also required. If that is not already on file with the Records Administrator, then Coughlin could simply refuse to send it in. There have been other records that have been lost due to a failure to send in this information.

Frank Thompson
January 27th, 2012, 02:06 PM
People have been asking me where I read about Natalie Coughlin exhibition swims and I have provided the link here.

http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/Masters/28367.asp

Paul Smith
January 27th, 2012, 08:27 PM
I remember Kevin...everyday in my signature line! Humble, talented guy that he is!