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JC_FLY
November 7th, 2003, 10:25 AM
I play football in the fall, swimming in the winter, and baseball in the spring & summer. Football is no longer much fun to play. I was wondering if I shouldn't play football next year and do cross-country instead. Cross-country would be more beneficial, and would get me in better shape, and I am seriously trying to get a swimming scholorship. Should I quit football and do cross country instead?

lefty
November 7th, 2003, 10:55 AM
If you are seriously trying to get a swim scholarship, then quit all sports and concentrate on swimming.

But I suppose X would be better.

JC_FLY
November 7th, 2003, 02:28 PM
would cross country be beneficial for swimming? I mean i get in shape & increase stamina?

Gil
November 7th, 2003, 04:34 PM
This may seem too obvious. You state you are seriously trying for a swimming scholarship. Should'nt you rely on the advice of your swimming coach as to what activities to pursue in the off season?

lefty
November 7th, 2003, 04:59 PM
Again, I'll state, for college scholarship level swimmers, there is no off-season! There are too many talkented young men competing for too few scholarship spots (Thanks to football!).

lefty
November 7th, 2003, 05:01 PM
Sorry I did not specifically answer your question: Running is good for swimming to a point. It should can be incorporated to the dry land activity of a swimmer. It is not a replacement for swimming!

kaelonj
November 7th, 2003, 05:42 PM
JC Fly,

I believe it was Janet Evans who would do some running while training for the Olympics / college (I believe she use to run about 5 miles a day) of course she still swam the running was just some extra work. So I would stay with the running, plus the fact that if you are serious about swimming, the chances of injury from playing football are greater than running.

Jeff

JC_FLY
November 7th, 2003, 06:19 PM
well, I could be in better shape tough, and I think cross country could help me more than football

mattson
November 9th, 2003, 08:11 AM
I agree with the others: cross-country is fine for cross-training, but will not nearly be as good as time in the pool. (I did cross-country in high school, but I was never aiming for athletic scholarships.)

Washington... do the schools there have a fall water polo program?

There are two drawbacks to running. (1) Having flexible (loose) ankles helps for having a strong kick. Having "stiff" ankles helps to keep you from spraining your ankles while running on paths. (Which would be even more true for football, I would think). (2) At least at my old school, x-country was a "geeky" sport (despite how good the team was). If that is true for your school, expect some teasing in general, and even more (hopefully good-natured) from your former football teammates! :D

JC_FLY
November 10th, 2003, 10:16 AM
i'm not sure if we have a water polo team, what is water polo anyway? I've heard of it, but I don't know what it is.

kaelonj
November 10th, 2003, 11:24 AM
JC Fly,

I guess you could think of water polo as soccer in the water ; 6 field players and a goalie on each side, and instead of running its all swimming and treading water (of course in water polo you can use your hands too). Water polo would be a great way to supplement your swim training (especially if you are a sprinter).

Jeff

JC_FLY
November 10th, 2003, 02:15 PM
hmm...I will seriously have to look into that. you have a ball and you swim with it across the pool and throw it into the goal? that seems really easy. what else is there about it? I mean, it can't be that easy. and what about the depth of the pool? does one team get the deep end and the other gets the shallow? or do the switch off?

and my school doesn't have water polo, but are there recreational leagues?

Sabretooth Tiger
November 10th, 2003, 04:27 PM
http://www.usawaterpolo.com

Jim Moriarty
November 10th, 2003, 10:43 PM
Water polo can be pretty tough depending on competition. You can be swimming with the ball between your arms and your opponent can swim right up your back and dunk you (my first experience with it in high school).

When I played in the late 60's teams switched ends so you played half in the deep end and half in the shallow. You do a lot of sprinting if you're intense about it. We used it as preparation for the season and it was definately better than the cross country we did the first two years of high school.

On the training benefits I do remember being out of breath a lot.

kaelonj
November 11th, 2003, 10:59 AM
Justin,

Water polo can be very physical, about 90% of the action takes place underwater. I compared it to soccer in the water, but the player action can be more like hockey or basketball (fighting/jostling for position, posting up, setting screens, picks and driving /swimming in for breaks.) all of this is normally treading water without the use of a bottom, normal polo tanks are 10ft or deeper all the way around. If you play in a pool that has a shallow end, then teams would switch sides so each gets the benefit of the shallow water (actually the goalies are the only ones who really benefit they can use the bottom but all field players can not use the bottom to gain an advantage on the ball ie jump off the bottom to intercept a pass or block a shot or jump of the bottom to gain more power on a shot). I noticed that you are in Bremerton and water polo club teams are pretty thin in the northwest compared to somewhere like Southern Cal (I'm in the Portland Oregon area and there are only a few club programs around). If you can find a club program it is definitely a good way to train if you don't want to swim year round.

Beards247
November 11th, 2003, 01:28 PM
JC_FLY -

For many serious competitive swimmers cross training is a minor component (IE not a whole season of cross country). If you want to run once maybe twice a week, that is all you need to add variety and get the max benefit of running. The majority of your time should be focused on swimming related activities (swimming, dryland, stretching, etc,.).

For myself, I swam but would occassionally play volleyball (once/wk). The activity of jumping for spikes and blocks really did help with exploding off starts and turns - but devoting more time would not have provided noticable improvements - once a week was enough.

But lets get to the ACID test. Tell us how long you have swam, some of your best times and events and your age. We can help you realistically assess the likelihood of a scholarship. Your ability to get a scholarship also depends on what type of school you want to attend. And I would consider dropping baseball. I played it too before swimming, but it really does not do much to help you get a swimming scholarship. Why not try for a baseball or football scholarship? Why swimming?

JC_FLY
November 11th, 2003, 03:26 PM
I am turning 16 on saturday, my best times. I haven't been timed much, the last time I was on a team was when I was 13, but I swam a little from 14 to now. I am looking to get SERIOUS about it. my best 50 free time was 25 seconds, and that some time last month. why I don't try for a football scholarship. I play lineman, and lineman that are 6'2 and 175lbs don't get looked at by scouts. and it's not my passion anymore. I would love to get a baseball scholorship, and there might be a chance I might get one. but swimming is my passion, it is what I would love to do after high school(competitivly) and I would love to go to the olympics. I know I'll make districts this year for swimming, but next year I want to go to state. I've made state twice before when I lived in Virginia. I think thta if I push myself as hard as can, I can make state next year, with the right conditioning/work outs. I was on another website and I asked the same question, here were their responses.

"cross country helped me the most"
"I have heard that running can really help your distance ( and normal) swimming. If I were you I would run by myself a few miles every day and also try and get in the pool alot. or maybe you can run cross country for your school and try to swim alot too. I think running would really help your endurance and swimming."

if you wanna see the link, here ya go.

http://www.usa-swimming.org/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001179

i'm just trying to find out the best path to go down to get faster and improve endurance(in the water)

Beards247
November 11th, 2003, 05:00 PM
If you want a scholarship in my neck of the woods (it may be different in other parts of the country), sub 22 what your target should be. But at top Div I schools that # is MUCH faster. Try asking the NCAA and see if you can gleen from them how many scholarships are handed out per year at each level of collegiate swimming. They may even have numbers for you.

I read the other link you posted. I would have to agree with one of the other people. The only way to get better at swimming is to swim. technique is your best friend - more so than leg strength from football or endurance from running or from crew (another popular off season activity for swimmers). You need to train your back muscles and hone your technique - that only comes from time in the water.

The other side of this equation is your academics. A person who has iffy times but a solid GPA, SAT, and other metrics of a person, stands a better chance of scholarship opportunities. It may not be pure sport scholarship, but a scholarship is a scholarship. Take these two equeally seriously and you may see the fruits of your labor.

HTH,

aquageek
November 11th, 2003, 05:45 PM
I read some recent NCAA 50 SCY results and the last place guy, #46 I recall, was right at 21 flat. That's fast!

Jim Moriarty
November 11th, 2003, 07:08 PM
EVENT: 4 MEN's 50 Yard FREESTYLE

NCAA Record: :19.06 ROLAND SCHOEMAN ARIZONA 2002
AMERICAN Record: :19.05 TOM JAGER SANTA CLARA 1990
US OPEN Record: :19.05 TOM JAGER SANTA CLARA 1990
QUALIFYING FOR THIS MEET: :20.01

RESULTS of FINALS

RANK NAME YEAR TEAM PRELIM TIME

CHAMPIONSHIP FINAL

1) BOUSQUET, FRED SO AUBURN :19.24 :19.31
2) CAVIC, MIKE FR CALIFORNIA :19.62 :19.37
3) ERVIN, ANTHONY SR CALIFORNIA :19.25 :19.38
4) GIBB, DEREK JR AUBURN :19.64 :19.51
5) WOCHOMURKA, RYAN SO AUBURN :19.72 :19.62
6) GUERALDI, RENATO JR TENNESSEE :19.53 :19.67
7) HAIDINYAK, ANDY SR AUBURN :19.69 :19.81
8) BAL, RANDALL SR STANFORD :19.52 :19.88

CONSOLATION FINAL

9) BRUNELLI, NICK JR ARIZONA STATE :19.75 :19.60
10) ROSE, MATT JR TEXAS A&M :19.73 :19.71
11) LaFLEUR, ERIC JR ARIZONA :19.77 :19.81
12) ANDERSON, LUKE JR VIRGINIA :19.76 :19.82
13) JAYME, CARLOS JR FLORIDA :19.79 :19.86
14) FERNS, LYNDON FR ARIZONA :19.78 :19.99
15) MARSHALL, MATTHEW JR WISCONSIN :19.77 :20.02
16) ZAABADICK, BOBBY SR ARIZONA STATE :19.79 :20.13

Now take a look at the 50 yd. times from the 200 yd. freestyle relay:

EVENT: 1 MEN's 200 Yard FREESTYLE RELAY

NCAA Record: 1:16.49 STANFORD 2002
AMERICAN Record: 1:16.49 STANFORD 2002
US OPEN Record: 1:16.49 STANFORD 2002
QUALIFYING FOR THIS MEET: 1:19.63


CHAMPIONSHIP FINAL

1) STANFORD

1) BAL, RANDALL SR :19.63
2) MARSHALL, PETER JR :18.93
3) SCHNELL, ANDREW JR :19.43
4) O'BRYAN, BOBBY JR :19.04

2) AUBURN

1) WOCHOMURKA, RYAN SO :19.71
2) GIBB, DEREK JR :19.00
3) KIDD, MATT SR :19.79
4) BOUSQUET, FRED SO :18.78

3) CALIFORNIA

1) CAVIC, MIKE FR :19.73
2) DRAGANJA, DUJE SO :19.31
3) LYON, MATT FR :19.77
4) ERVIN, ANTHONY SR :18.58

Guys doing sub-19 times! What do they feed them?

JC_FLY
November 13th, 2003, 01:31 PM
"The NCAA allows each Division 1 Swimming program 9.9 Scholarships for Men and 14 for Women. In Division 2 the ratio is 8.1 Scholarships for Men and 8.1 for Women."

"As a High School Swimmer you should be aware that the standard of swimming at college level is very high. I would recommend that you attend a few meet's to gauge the actual intensity of swimming at this level.. Remember that only the absolute top swimmers will be approached with offers."

"There are 142 Division 1 and 50 Division 2 Colleges that offer Swimming Scholarships for Men. There are 185 Division 1 and 64 Division 2 Colleges that offer Scholarships to Women. That's a total of 1,810.8 Swimming scholarships for Men in the NCAA alone. For Women the total number of scholarships in the NCAA is 3,108.4."

I WILL GET ONE OF THOSE SCHOLARSHIPS!

Beards247
November 13th, 2003, 01:55 PM
JC_Fly -

If you go after swimming as a year round commitment and after your academics with as much zeal as you did finding out that information, I believe you can get a scholarship.

Don't forget academics!!! So many athletes fail out of school losing their scholarships b/c they fail to prepare for the other side of college life (the social life will be there - trust me on that one). Don't fall into that trap! 6 years from now you will be looking back at HS and College as fond memories and looking for a job (assuming you don't go for a Masters). Don't shoot yourself in the foot only focusing on the swimming goal.

But now I am hooked. Now I hope you keep us informed of your progress, your end of season Best Times, and the scores from your PSAT's (you are a sophmore, yes?).
~CB

lefty
November 13th, 2003, 02:59 PM
I went a 21 in the 50 free in high school (this was 10 years ago) and received zero scholarship offers. Zip. I had great grades and a very high SAT. However, the reason I did not get a scholarship offer is because the only Div 1 school I applied to was U of Mich. No way was I scholarship matieral.

I too believe you can get a scholarship. Heck, you could get a scholarship to U of Michigan. However, don't be affraid to look at schools like American University, East Carolina, Oakland University, all of the MAC schools etc.

Also, most schools offer half scholarships or even quarter scholarships. They would rather offer 16 half scholarships than 8 full (to fill out the roster). I believe that Dolan was on a half ride for a while at Michigan.

Finally, the guy who finised last at D1s in the 50: Here is the way the meet works. If you qualify for the meet in any event, you can swim up to 3 individual events as long as you swim atleast on of the events in which you qualified. A lot of times a breaststroker or backstroker will swim the 50 on the first day of the meet simply for the heck of it. So the guy who went a 21.01 was swimming an OFF event.

aquageek
November 13th, 2003, 03:27 PM
So, the last place guy was swimming an off event and still put up a 21. That's some powerful words of encouragement.

Tom Ellison
November 13th, 2003, 04:42 PM
Hey, I watched Jason Lezak, 26, and OUT of college, swim a 19.11 in the 50 SCY Free in OKlahoma City....at the Kerr McGee Pro Am Classic in Dec. 2001....then the next night, he swam a very, very fast 42.22 in the 100 SCY free. My point, their are some very, very, very fast folks out there....and they are everywhere! Do not let the other guy keep you from giving it a whack....Go for it!

JC_FLY
November 13th, 2003, 04:45 PM
I plan to qualify for state this year, get 1st in all my events as a junior, and as a senior I want to be able to swim a 50 under 20. sounds impossible, but I think I can get there with committment and dedication. none of my friends think I can get statet this year, I'm going too. nobody thinks I can get under 20? I will. I plan to show everybody up. left, I;m going to send out more applications than to michigan. Michigan will be one of them, but not the only one.

mattson
November 13th, 2003, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by JC_FLY
"...That's a total of 1,810.8 Swimming scholarships for Men in the NCAA alone. For Women the total number of scholarships in the NCAA is 3,108.4."

I WILL GET ONE OF THOSE SCHOLARSHIPS!

Phew! For a moment, I was wondering if you were considering a sex-change operation, in order to increase your chances by 60%. ;) (On a more serious note, as long as you know the size and steepness of the mountain you are trying to climb, I'll be part of the crowd trying to cheer you on.)