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ande
February 17th, 2012, 11:16 AM
2012 Div 1 NCAAs

Women's Swimming & Diving Division I Championship - NCAA.com (http://www.ncaa.com/championships/swimming-women/d1)

March 15 - 17, 2012
Auburn, AL


Men's Swimming & Diving Division I Championship - NCAA.com (http://www.ncaa.com/championships/swimming-men/d1)

March 22 - 24
Weyerhaeuser King County Aquatic Center
Seattle, WA

But before NCAAs are the conference meets, please provide links and let's talk about em.

UT swims next week but several conference championships are next week.

SwimmingWorld (http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/) will cover it too

That Guy
February 17th, 2012, 01:55 PM
http://www.collegeswimming.com/news/2012/feb/15/2012-conference-coverage/ is a pretty good roll-up of the championships happening this weekend.

Karl_S
February 17th, 2012, 05:56 PM
CAA Feb. 22-25 at George Mason.

psych sheets:
http://www.nmnathletics.com/fls/8500/supportfiles/New%20Folder/caa%202012%20preliminary%20psych.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=850 0

results:
http://caasports.xosn.com/fls/8500/swimming_live/results/index.htm?DB_OEM_ID=8500

That Guy
February 17th, 2012, 07:34 PM
Ooooooouuuuuuucccccccccchhhhhhhh

I was reading through some conference championship results and came across this 1000 free result. (Yes, some conferences run the 1000 in their championship meets) He nicely dropped his time from 10:04 to 9:43, and negative split the race, but was DQ'd... due to a false start! Name and school changed to protect the guilty...

-- Redacted, Johnny FR College 10:04.87 DQ
False start
r:+0.79 26.84 56.81 (29.97)
1:27.23 (30.42) 1:57.30 (30.07)
2:27.21 (29.91) 2:57.08 (29.87)
3:27.02 (29.94) 3:56.77 (29.75)
4:26.05 (29.28) 4:55.52 (29.47)
5:24.50 (28.98) 5:53.26 (28.76)
6:22.29 (29.03) 6:51.36 (29.07)
7:20.50 (29.14) 7:49.68 (29.18)
8:18.53 (28.85) 8:47.38 (28.85)
9:15.87 (28.49) DQ (27.77)

That Guy
February 17th, 2012, 10:16 PM
Elizabeth Beisel posted 3:58.35 for her 400 IM. Just missed the record. That should be a great race at NCAA's!

NCAA: N 3:58.23 2/26/2010 Julia Smit, Stanford
American: M 3:58.23 2/26/2010 Julia Smit, Stanford
US Open: O 3:58.23 2/26/2010 Julia Smit, Stanford
SEC Record: S 4:00.83 2011 Elizabeth Beisel, Florida
4:05.65 A NCAA A
4:19.69 B NCAA B
Name Year School Prelims Finals Points
================================================== =======================
=== A - Final ===

1 Beisel, Elizabe FR Florida-FL 4:03.27 3:58.35SA 20
25.81 55.51 (29.70)
1:25.51 (30.00) 1:54.80 (29.29)
2:28.63 (33.83) 3:02.83 (34.20)
3:31.02 (28.19) 3:58.35 (27.33)

Fresnoid
February 17th, 2012, 10:22 PM
Ooooooouuuuuuucccccccccchhhhhhhh

I was reading through some conference championship results and came across this 1000 free result. (Yes, some conferences run the 1000 in their championship meets) He nicely dropped his time from 10:04 to 9:43, and negative split the race, but was DQ'd... due to a false start! Name and school changed to protect the guilty...

-- Redacted, Johnny FR College 10:04.87 DQ
False start
r:+0.79 26.84 56.81 (29.97)
1:27.23 (30.42) 1:57.30 (30.07)
2:27.21 (29.91) 2:57.08 (29.87)
3:27.02 (29.94) 3:56.77 (29.75)
4:26.05 (29.28) 4:55.52 (29.47)
5:24.50 (28.98) 5:53.26 (28.76)
6:22.29 (29.03) 6:51.36 (29.07)
7:20.50 (29.14) 7:49.68 (29.18)
8:18.53 (28.85) 8:47.38 (28.85)
9:15.87 (28.49) DQ (27.77)

How can it be a false start when the reaction time is +.79?

That Guy
February 17th, 2012, 10:24 PM
How can it be a false start when the reaction time is +.79?

I'm guessing he never stopped moving prior to the buzzer going off.

osterber
February 18th, 2012, 12:27 AM
Yup. Reaction time is the time from the start to when the feet leave the blocks. It's not the time to the first movement. This suggests that the swimmer may have flinched significantly, may have even recoiled backwards, and then started. We had a DQ in a double-dual meet two weeks ago in the 1000 free on a false start, dual-confirmed by the referee and the starter.

-Rick

knelson
February 18th, 2012, 12:52 PM
Elizabeth Beisel posted 3:58.35 for her 400 IM. Just missed the record. That should be a great race at NCAA's!

At the Big Ten meet Alyssa Vavra of Indiana swam a 4:01 so she could be in the mix, but I think it will be a battle between Beisel, Hosszu and Leverenz.

That Guy
February 18th, 2012, 11:00 PM
Arianna Vanderpool-Wallace led off the 400 free relay with a 46.61, which broke the NCAA record...

NCAA: N 46.81 2/19/2011 Arianna Vanderpool-Wallace, Auburn
American: M 46.84 12/4/2011 Natalie Coughlin, California
US Open: O 46.81 2/19/2011 Arianna Vanderpool-Wallace, Auburn
SEC Record: S 46.81 2011 Ariana Vanderpool-Wallace, Auburn
47.84 A NCAA A
50.19 B NCAA B

Event 41 Women 400 Yard Freestyle Relay
================================================== ================================
NCAA: N 3:09.88 3/21/2009 University of California
Wilson, Jensen Daag, Vollmer
American: M 3:11.03 3/19/2011 University of Georgia
Scroggy, Romano, Margalis, Schmitt
US Open: O 3:09.88 3/21/2009 University of California
Wilson, Jensen, Daag, Vollmer
SEC Record: S 3:12.00 2009 Auburn University
Ohlgren, Vanderpoo-Wallace, Marck, Geary
3:14.93 A NCAA A
3:24.67 B NCAA B
School Seed Finals Points
================================================== ================================
1 Auburn-SE 'A' 3:15.62 3:12.85 A 40
1) Vanderpool-Wallace, Arianna F 2) Riordan, Hannah JR
3) Fonteno, Megan M FR 4) Krakoski, Haley E SO
21.98 46.61 (46.61)
1:09.66 (23.05) 1:35.23 (48.62)
1:57.96 (22.73) 2:23.82 (48.59)
2:46.94 (23.12) 3:12.85 (49.03)

Calvin S
February 20th, 2012, 11:07 AM
Vanderpool-Wallace was also the first woman to split sub 21 in the 50 free on their 200 free relay. I think I read she went 20.80.

jim thornton
February 20th, 2012, 11:26 AM
What strange hormones are they putting in collegiate waters these days?

Unbelievable times. It makes you feel like you are from a separate and decidedly inferior species.

JimRude
February 20th, 2012, 11:30 AM
We are making the 2+ hour drive north to watch men's NCAAs at Federal Way. Great pool, cheap tix, GO BEARS!

aquageek
February 20th, 2012, 01:04 PM
Matt Kredich, UT womens coach, was named SEC women's coach of the year.

http://www.utladyvols.com/sports/w-swim/stats/2011-2012/completeresults.html

Kredich is a tremendous coach. I know UT has totally separate men's and women's athletic departments but he would be ideal for running both swim teams. He's a hot commodity.

knelson
February 20th, 2012, 03:31 PM
Matt Kredich, UT womens coach, was named SEC women's coach of the year.

Nice work. It can't be easy to recruit for a school where you will be known as a "Lady Vol."

Chris Stevenson
February 20th, 2012, 04:19 PM
Kredich is a tremendous coach. I know UT has totally separate men's and women's athletic departments but he would be ideal for running both swim teams. He's a hot commodity.

I agree, he's done a great job overcoming the handicap of his alma mater. He also did a great job at U of Richmond before leaving for Tennessee.

aquageek
February 20th, 2012, 04:22 PM
Nice work. It can't be easy to recruit for a school where you will be known as a "Lady Vol."

Doesn't seem to bother the Lady Dawgs at UGA.

Chris Stevenson
February 20th, 2012, 04:23 PM
the UT men's alumni have voiced a strong desire to keep their programs separate. Why?? I don't know the answer there.

The long shadow of Ray Bussard?

knelson
February 20th, 2012, 05:45 PM
Doesn't seem to bother the Lady Dawgs at UGA.

Well, since the alternative would have been Bitches...:bolt:

ande
February 22nd, 2012, 10:35 AM
the 2012 Big 12 Swimming & Diving Championships (http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10410&ATCLID=205177413) begins today

shark
February 22nd, 2012, 12:05 PM
Bussard's shadow will follow the sport of swimming for the foreseeable future. He wasn't known as the innovator for nothing. ie; the grab start, the freestyle flipturn, the transition turn from back to breast, the NCAA honest effort rule, the tradition of shaving the head for important competitions, pouring home water into enemy waters. All are documented changes in the sport of swimming that got their start at the Student Aquatic Center at UT, among others. A fierce opponent of title IX he was. Petitioned against it to the NCAA when it was created, stating that it would lead to gender inequality for men of sports in the future. (not to far off the mark he was) The SEC would not be the swimming powerhouse it is today if Bussard didn't dominate the conference during the 1970's. It made the others catch up. Florida didn't catch them until 1979. During the eighties even LSU got in on the action. The UT guys team did a very good job this year for being surrounded by death and downfall for the better part of 2 years. They should be commended. T - E - double N - E - double S - double E, Tennessee! Long live The Great White Bird.

gobears
February 22nd, 2012, 12:18 PM
A fierce opponent of title IX he was. Petitioned against it to the NCAA when it was created, stating that it would lead to gender inequality for men of sports in the future. (not to far off the mark he was)

Yeah, gotta' hate how much money is spent on those damn women's sports in comparison to the men!!!

shark
February 22nd, 2012, 12:41 PM
Yeah, gotta' hate how much money is spent on those damn women's sports in comparison to the men!!!

I see what you are saying. I believe it is somewhat equal. But, in being equal, the university has to add women's sport programs, but has to keep the football program competitive because it makes the money. By doing that, they have to get rid of other programs. Swimming being one of them. I can name ten men's swimming programs on one hand that have been cut due to title IX. Bussard saw this coming in 1979. He tried to stop it.

That Guy
February 22nd, 2012, 01:03 PM
ten men's swimming programs on one hand :bow: Please post pix of this amazing hand. Are you able to pull more water than other swimmers? Are you in the Guinness Book of World Records?

Rob Copeland
February 22nd, 2012, 01:15 PM
the university has to add women's sport programs, but has to keep the football program competitive because it makes the money. By doing that, they have to get rid of other programs.Just another urban legend…

Most college football programs do not make money. Some appear profitable because of alumni financial support and endowments and some because of television revenue. However, without the huge monetary boost from outside dollars almost all major college football programs would be deficit leaders.

We are seeing more college swim teams adopting this model of seeking endowment and alumni support to turn the sport more profitable, but it has a long way to go.

Colleges do NOT “have to get rid of other programs” they can work to keep and expand varsity and club offerings. But they need to be willing to work.

ande
February 22nd, 2012, 01:25 PM
here's USA Swimming's NCAA Event Rank Search (http://usaswimming.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=1969&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en)

put in NS in the "Cut/Standard:" field to show all swimmers

Look up individual Div 1 NCAA swimmers with:
NCAA DIVISION I TIMES SEARCH (http://usaswimming.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=1968&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en)

shark
February 22nd, 2012, 01:40 PM
Just another urban legend…

Colleges do NOT “have to get rid of other programs” they can work to keep and expand varsity and club offerings. But they need to be willing to work.

Really? You are right. They do not "have" to get rid of anything, but the reality is, it is easier to drop programs that cost money than... aw, what's the use. UT has a very young team. Look at the SEC results, many youngsters on the UT team. Lars had them prepared. They need to add some milers.

http://www.jonesaquaticcenter.com/livestats/

Rob Copeland
February 22nd, 2012, 01:51 PM
.. aw, what's the use.Okay, I’m a grumpy and bitter… I swam in the Big 8 way back in the day. Now it’s the Big 12 and only 3 schools have Men’s swimming and only 1 from the old Big 8.

But enough about longing for the good old days. This looks like another great year of conference and NCAA swimming. I’m looking forward to this weekend’s meets.:bliss:
Go Cyclones!:cheerleader:

That Guy
February 22nd, 2012, 01:57 PM
ECAC Championships @ the Naval Academy start on Thursday with an LCM Invitational, followed by the normal SCY championship meet on Friday-Saturday-Sunday. Since ECAC's are usually filled with D1 mid-majors, it will be interesting to see how many swimmers actually compete in the LCM Invitational, and how many of them make Trials cuts.

http://www.ecacsports.com/championships/2011-2012_Winter_Championships/Swim_Dive_Open/2012_Open_Preview

Are there any other LCM Invitational-type events going on at conference meets this weekend?

That Guy
February 24th, 2012, 01:09 PM
WHOA! Breeja Larson just blasted this awesome prelim swim:

Event 25 Women 100 Yard Breaststroke
================================================== ================
Big 12 Meet: ! 58.83 2011 Laura Sogar, Texas
Big12 Conf: * 58.51 2011 Breeja Larson, Texas A&M
NCAA 'A': ~ 59.65
NCAA 'B': + 1:02.98
NCAA: # 58.06 2010 Ann Chandler, Arizona
Name Age School Seed Prelims
================================================== ================
=== Preliminaries ===

1 Breeja Larson 19 Texas A&M 58.68 57.92#q
r:+0.82 12.71 27.34 (14.63)
42.32 (14.98) 57.92 (15.60)

pwb
February 24th, 2012, 01:52 PM
WHOA! Breeja Larson just blasted this awesome prelim swim:She's been rocking fast all year ... it will be interesting to see if she can be in the mix behind Soni for the #2 spot in Omaha.

That Guy
February 24th, 2012, 05:19 PM
She's been rocking fast all year ... it will be interesting to see if she can be in the mix behind Soni for the #2 spot in Omaha.

For this morning's swim, she was untapered and unshaven! :eek:

http://theswimmerscircle.com/2012/02/24/a-becomes-2nd-woman-under-58-seconds/

(link found on pwb's blerg)

ande
February 27th, 2012, 03:52 PM
WHOA! Breeja Larson just blasted this awesome prelim swim:

Event 25 Women 100 Yard Breaststroke
================================================== ================
Big 12 Meet: ! 58.83 2011 Laura Sogar, Texas
Big12 Conf: * 58.51 2011 Breeja Larson, Texas A&M
NCAA 'A': ~ 59.65
NCAA 'B': + 1:02.98
NCAA: # 58.06 2010 Ann Chandler, Arizona
Name Age School Seed Prelims
================================================== ================
=== Preliminaries ===

1 Breeja Larson 19 Texas A&M 58.68 57.92#q
r:+0.82 12.71 27.34 (14.63)
42.32 (14.98) 57.92 (15.60)

her 2 BR was quite impressive too & not far from the NCAA record

Event 37 Women 200 Yard Breaststroke
================================================== ================
Big 12 Meet: ! 2:07.66 2011 Laura Sogar, Texas
Big12 Conf: * 2:06.18 2011 Breeja Larson, Texas A&M
NCAA 'A': ~ 2:09.25
NCAA 'B': + 2:16.20
NCAA: # 2:05.48 2009 Rebecca Soni, So. California
Name Age School Seed Prelims
================================================== ================
=== Preliminaries ===

1 Breeja Larson 19 Texas A&M 2:07.06 2:06.82!q
28.24 59.81 (31.57) 1:32.69 (32.88) 2:06.82 (34.13)

aggie women's coach Steve Bultman's (http://www.aggieathletics.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=636856&SPID=93236&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=27300&ATCLID=205236266&Q_SEASON=2011) done an impressive job with her & many other swimmers

ande
February 28th, 2012, 10:37 AM
Impressive

California's Caitlin Leverenz Continues To Impress, Moves to Second All Time in 200 Breast -- (http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/College/29790.asp?q=California%27s%20Caitlin%20Leverenz%20 Continues%20To%20Impress,%20Moves%20to%20Second%20 All%20Time%20in%20200%20Breast)
February 25, 2012

NCAA Records Fall to California, Texas A&M Swimmers over Weekend (http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/College/29810.asp?q=NCAA%20Records%20Fall%20to%20Californi a,%20Texas%20A&M%20Swimmers%20over%20Weekend) --
February 26, 2012

That Guy
February 28th, 2012, 03:33 PM
D1 Women's Uncut Psych Sheet (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/43ac46e5-036a-43fa-9219-e162354c9baf/DI%20Women%20Entry%20List.pdf)

Chris Stevenson
February 28th, 2012, 03:40 PM
I forget, where do they usually cut? I know it is approximate...

That Guy
February 28th, 2012, 03:55 PM
I forget, where do they usually cut? I know it is approximate...
For the women's meet, individual events usually cut at #36. I don't remember how many relays get invited.

slowcat
February 28th, 2012, 04:12 PM
For the women's meet, individual events usually cut at #36. I don't remember how many relays get invited.

Thought it was closer to #32 the past few years...

Rob Copeland
February 28th, 2012, 04:36 PM
I forget, where do they usually cut? I know it is approximate...
Just follow the simple easy to understand Selections criteria:
Number of Participants. The number of participants in the Division I championships cannot exceed the following limits: Men—270 participants; and women—322 participants. All swimmers and divers that are invited to the meet will be counted toward the total number of participants allowed. If an invited athlete does not swim or dive in the championships, then the participation cap will not be met thus precluding an opportunity from another student-athlete. It is imperative that coaches notify the NCAA of any circumstances that arise inhibiting an athlete from competing. In these circumstances the committee will make every effort to invite an alternate to the meet to maintain the participation cap. {Please note: relay only athletes that are selected to the meet count towards the participation cap, therefore those athletes must swim on the selected relay or the entire relay becomes ineligible to compete in that event.}

Selection of Participants:
Step 1: A total of 35 divers for men and 41 divers for women will be entered in to the championships.
Step 2: All individual swimmers and all relays that have achieved “A’’ time standards will be entered in the meet
Step 3: All events will be filled, one entry time per event, until each event has the same number of competitors up to 16 places. Only 16 relays will be selected during this process. Teams will still have the opportunity to submit optional entry relays, but 16 will remain the cap on selected relay marks, unless more than 16 relay teams have met the “A” standard. Any events that already exceed this number of places due to “A” qualifiers will not receive additional entrants at this time.
Step 4: One entry will be added to each individual swimming event in event order. No entrants will be added to an event that exceeds this number of places because of “A” qualifiers until all individual events even out. This process will be repeated as long as each individual event in the entire order of events can receive an additional entry and the number of total competitors will remain below the cap (270 for the men’s meet and 322 for the women’s meet).
Step 5: At some point, the addition of one competitor per event to the entire order of individual events will put the field over the total number of competitors cap. At this point, the remaining spaces will be allocated by comparing each events percentage (Division I championships record time for that event divided by entry time). The competitor who has the highest percentage (closest to the record) will be taken first.
Step 6: If we are in compliance with the formula below (we are into the listed individual row or greater) then go on to Step 7. If we are not in compliance with the formula, then subtract 1 relay (used in Step 3) and redo the entire process. We will not accept less than 12 relays for the men’s meet or 13 relays for the
women’s meet.
Men
16 relays - 26 individual rows
15 relays - 24 individual rows
14 relays - 22 individual rows
13 relays - 20 individual rows
12 relays - guaranteed
Women
16 relays - 32 individual rows
15 relays - 30 individual rows
14 relays - 28 individual rows
13 relays - guaranteed
Step 7: Enter optional entries for those individuals who are invited to the meet.
Step 8 An alternate list of qualifiers will be created by individual event row. This list will be in row order and then by percentages (calculated in Step 5) within each row. This list will be used in case a swimmer who has been invited to the championships has become ineligible or unavailable.

That Guy
February 28th, 2012, 09:57 PM
http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/605cdcfd-e190-4eb3-ab16-6d5af759e664/DIII%20Entry%20List.pdf

D3 uncut psych sheet.

That Guy
February 28th, 2012, 11:26 PM
http://www.usaswimming.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=1494&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en

All the D2 psych sheets are posted now as well.

That Guy
February 29th, 2012, 05:11 PM
D1 women's invite list: http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/a5637bba-e087-41b2-91e2-82915187e003/DI%20Women%20-%20Psych%20Sheet.pdf

ande
February 29th, 2012, 05:32 PM
D1 women's invite list: http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/a5637bba-e087-41b2-91e2-82915187e003/DI%20Women%20-%20Psych%20Sheet.pdf

but if swimmers who weren't invited, have the B cut and get in the meet with another event or on their teams relay they are IN the meet and may swim those events.

400 IM has to be one of the most exciting events at Women's Div NCAAs, there's 3 women seeded right around 3:58
Event 8 400 Individual Medley
1 Beisel, Elizabeth SO Florida A 3:58.35
2 Leverenz, Caitlin JR Cal Berkeley A 3:58.46
3 Hosszu, Katinka SR Southern Cali A 3:58.86

also the 2 IM
Event 3 200 Individual Medley
1 Hosszu, Katinka SR Southern Cali A 1:52.37
2 Leverenz, Caitlin JR Cal Berkeley A 1:52.43

& 500 fr too with
1 McDermott, Amber FR Georgia A 4:34.55
2 Peacock, Stephanie SO UNC A 4:35.73
3 Trott, Wendy SR Georgia A 4:36.32
4 Anderson, Haley JR Southern Cali A 4:36.52
5 Anderson, Alyssa SR Arizona A 4:36.78

knelson
February 29th, 2012, 06:10 PM
500 fr too with
1 McDermott, Amber FR Georgia A 4:34.55
2 Peacock, Stephanie SO UNC A 4:35.73
3 Trott, Wendy SR Georgia A 4:36.32
4 Anderson, Haley JR Southern Cali A 4:36.52
5 Anderson, Alyssa SR Arizona A 4:36.78

Cool! Amber is a Cascade Swim Club alumni, although she left to train at Georgia before I started swimming with the team last year.

jaadams1
February 29th, 2012, 11:51 PM
Cool! Amber is a Cascade Swim Club alumni, although she left to train at Georgia before I started swimming with the team last year.

It looks like you're probably training in her former lane too! :bolt:

ande
March 1st, 2012, 03:26 PM
2012 MENS PAC12 SWIMMING CHAMPS
2/29/2012 - 3/3/2012

PSYCH (http://www.pac-12.org/portals/7/images/pac-12/championships/mswim/psych-sheets.pdf)

Real Time Results (http://www.socalswim.org/htresults/2012MensPac12/)


Event 1 Men 200 Yard Medley Relay

1 CAL-PC 'A' 1:26.23 1:25.09 NCAA 40
1) Gydesen, Mathias SR 2) Koon, Nolan SR
3) Shields, Tom JR 4) Fleming, Shayne SO
21.75
45.81 (24.06)
1:06.13 (20.32)
1:25.09 (18.96)

2 STAN-PC 'A' 1:27.07 1:25.46 CONS 34
1) Nolan, Dave FR 2) Lovelace, Curtis SR
3) Lane, Jack FR 4) Wayne, Aaron JR
21.46
45.90 (24.44)
1:06.63 (20.73)
1:25.46 (18.83)

3 ARIZ-AZ 'A' 1:24.34 1:25.60 CONS 32
1) Friedemann, Mitchell SO 2) Wyman, Kelley SR
3) Smith, Giles JR 4) Small, Adam SR
22.02
45.83 (23.81)
1:06.28 (20.45)
1:25.60 (19.32)

4 USC-CA 'A' 1:25.83 1:26.08 CONS 30
1) Karpov, Nick JR 2) Lujan Rivera, Sergio FR
3) Voell, Matt JR 4) Morozov, Vlad SO
22.41
46.58 (24.17)
1:07.65 (21.07)
1:26.08 (18.43)

Event 2 Men 800 Yard Freestyle Rela


1 STAN-PC 'A' 6:28.36 6:18.99 NCAA 40
1) Nolan, Dave FR 2) Andrews, Rob SR
3) Stephens, Thomas FR 4) Mosko, David SR
22.01 46.10 (46.10)
1:10.27 (1:10.27) 1:34.40 (1:34.40)
1:55.70 (21.30) 2:19.72 (45.32)
2:44.08 (1:09.68) 3:08.40 (1:34.00)
3:30.18 (21.78) 3:54.31 (45.91)
4:18.71 (1:10.31) 4:43.59 (1:35.19)
5:05.77 (22.18) 5:30.07 (46.48)
5:54.57 (1:10.98) 6:18.99 (1:35.40)

2 USC-CA 'A' 6:23.26 6:19.71 NCAA 34
1) Colupaev, Dimitri SO 2) Bobrosky, Chad FR
3) Wagner, Jack SO 4) Quintero, Cristian FR
22.02 46.05 (46.05)
1:09.78 (1:09.78) 1:33.97 (1:33.97)
1:55.59 (21.62) 2:19.68 (45.71)
2:44.23 (1:10.26) 3:08.89 (1:34.92)
3:31.07 (22.18) 3:55.14 (46.25)
4:19.99 (1:11.10) 4:44.80 (1:35.91)
5:06.44 (21.64) 5:30.95 (46.15)
5:55.73 (1:10.93) 6:19.71 (1:34.91)

3 CAL-PC 'A' 6:26.30 6:20.20 NCAA 32
1) Shields, Tom JR 2) Messerschmidt, Tyler FR
3) Metz, Samuel SO 4) Hinshaw, Ben JR
22.32 46.14 (46.14)
1:09.98 (1:09.98) 1:33.82 (1:33.82)
1:54.64 (20.82) 2:18.51 (44.69)
2:43.18 (1:09.36) 3:09.30 (1:35.48)
3:30.55 (21.25) 3:54.11 (44.81)
4:18.71 (1:09.41) 4:44.17 (1:34.87)
5:06.33 (22.16) 5:30.98 (46.81)
5:55.76 (1:11.59) 6:20.20 (1:36.03)

ande
March 6th, 2012, 10:42 AM
2012 NCAA Division I Men's Championships -
03/22/2012 to 03/24/2012 SCY

2012 DI Men - Preselections Entry List Updated (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/0c687491-0338-4244-8524-3176bf932d55/DI%20Men%20-%20Entry%20List.pdf)


2012 NCAA Division I Women's Championships
3/15/2012 to 3/17/2012 SCY

2012 NCAA Division I Women's Championships -
3/15/2012 to 3/17/2012 SCY
Psych Sheet (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/d6ca6941-f5ae-4236-b469-1327649f17b4/DI%20Women%20Psych%20-%20Updated%20LSU%20Scratch.pdf) updated Mon 3/5/12

Invited Swimmers by team (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/38a6af29-dbd1-4b63-b9f8-a21e45a3c384/DI%20Women%20Invited%20Swimmers%20By%20Team%20-%20Updated%20LSU%20Scratch.pdf)


From USA Swimming's NCAA info (http://www.usaswimming.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=1494&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en)

jim thornton
March 6th, 2012, 02:02 PM
I see our homestate boy, David Nolan, is seeded first in the 100 back and second in the 200 IM and 200 Back.

I wonder if he will drop his time from high school in the 200 IM?

That Guy
March 7th, 2012, 06:18 PM
D1 Men's Invite List: http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/1e08a17c-c463-45ce-a12e-812f3a675f74/DI%20Men%20-%20Psych%20Sheet.pdf

17-18 athletes invited per event...

jim thornton
March 7th, 2012, 08:59 PM
Can someone explain what Invited means? Have the qualifying times not kept up with the suit change times, forcing the meet officials to allow more swimmers in who did not make the official standards?

Rob Copeland
March 7th, 2012, 09:19 PM
Can someone explain what Invited means?See the post on Feb 28th.

Rich Abrahams
March 7th, 2012, 09:32 PM
Can someone explain what Invited means? Have the qualifying times not kept up with the suit change times, forcing the meet officials to allow more swimmers in who did not make the official standards?

Jim,
The rules would confound a talmudic scholar. Someone like Skip Thompson may have some understanding. It revolves around the "A" standard (which only a few swimmers per event achieve) and the much more lenient "B" standard. Maybe 80 or 90 swimmers achieve the "B" standard but there is an invited cutoff number (this year between 17 and 18 for men and 30 for women) of the top "B" qualifiers. It really becomes confusing when relays are taken into consideration. If you qualify on a relay (i.e. invited) you can swim any event in which you achieved the "B" standard even if you're ranked 90th. This really hoses an outstanding swimmer from a weaker team who had the 18th top time but no relay to swim on. No relay, no invite. To add more confusion, teams are limited to the total number of athletes they can bring. Actually, there are expetions to this rule also. If you really want to immerse yourself in the arcane check this out: http://forum.collegeswimming.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5640

jaadams1
March 7th, 2012, 11:01 PM
Jim,
The rules would confound a talmudic scholar. Someone like Skip Thompson may have some understanding. It revolves around the "A" standard (which only a few swimmers per event achieve) and the much more lenient "B" standard. Maybe 80 or 90 swimmers achieve the "B" standard but there is an invited cutoff number (this year between 17 and 18 for men and 30 for women) of the top "B" qualifiers. It really becomes confusing when relays are taken into consideration. If you qualify on a relay (i.e. invited) you can swim any event in which you achieved the "B" standard even if you're ranked 90th. This really hoses an outstanding swimmer from a weaker team who had the 18th top time but no relay to swim on. No relay, no invite. To add more confusion, teams are limited to the total number of athletes they can bring. Actually, there are expetions to this rule also. If you really want to immerse yourself in the arcane check this out: http://forum.collegeswimming.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5640


Back in the day, this is the exact reason why I enjoyed swimming college nationals in the NAIA division. You didn't have to be a mathematics/statistician/whatever to figure out who was in the meet. Those that qualified, went. At least I believe so. Probably because the sheer numbers of qualifiers/swimmers was much less that the NCAA too.

Rob Copeland
March 8th, 2012, 08:12 AM
The rules would confound a talmudic scholar...The short answer is that NCAA D1 invites 270 men and 322 women to the NCAA championship meet, D2 and D3 have a few more invitees.

35 men’s divers (41 women’s), any swimmer with an “A” time, the top 16 in every individual event and top 12 relays are guaranteed spots. At this point Rich’s Talmudic scholars start “adding rows” to get to 270-men and 322-women.

ande
March 8th, 2012, 11:20 AM
2012 NCAA Division I Men's Championships
03/22/2012 to 03/24/2012 SCY


2012 DI Men - Psych Sheet (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/1e08a17c-c463-45ce-a12e-812f3a675f74/DI%20Men%20-%20Psych%20Sheet.pdf)


2012 DI Men - Invited Swimmers By Team (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/a67cbf8c-21da-4010-8f37-3edf898c0f72/Men%20DI%20ISBT.pdf)


2012 NCAA Division I Women's Championships
3/15/2012 to 3/17/2012 SCY

2012 NCAA Division I Women's Championships -
3/15/2012 to 3/17/2012 SCY

Psych Sheet (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/d6ca6941-f5ae-4236-b469-1327649f17b4/DI%20Women%20Psych%20-%20Updated%20LSU%20Scratch.pdf) updated Mon 3/5/12

Invited Swimmers by team (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/38a6af29-dbd1-4b63-b9f8-a21e45a3c384/DI%20Women%20Invited%20Swimmers%20By%20Team%20-%20Updated%20LSU%20Scratch.pdf)


From USA Swimming's NCAA info (http://www.usaswimming.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=1494&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en)

That Guy
March 8th, 2012, 06:41 PM
NJCAA's are this weekend. This is rather impressive; an NJCAA record leadoff and an NJCAA record relay. Also, @ 1:17.70, these guys would be #8 on the D1 psych sheet!

Event 8 Men 200 Yard Freestyle Relay
================================================== ================================
NJCAA: 1:18.78 2009 , Indian River SC
E Walling, K Wyman, N Hein, N Schwartz
School Seed Finals Points
================================================== ================================
1 Indian River Sta 'A' 1:23.11 1:17.70 64
1) Tandy, Bradley 20 2) Mosley, Logan 20
3) Flores, Luis 17 4) Weir, Caleb 20
19.06 38.86 (19.80)
58.36 (19.50) 1:17.70 (19.34)

jim thornton
March 9th, 2012, 01:36 PM
The short answer is that NCAA D1 invites 270 men and 322 women to the NCAA championship meet, D2 and D3 have a few more invitees.

35 men’s divers (41 women’s), any swimmer with an “A” time, the top 16 in every individual event and top 12 relays are guaranteed spots. At this point Rich’s Talmudic scholars start “adding rows” to get to 270-men and 322-women.

What accounts for the gender discrepancy in invitees? Is it a reflection of there being more women's swimming programs? Or did fewer women make the cut? Or something else?

Frank Thompson
March 9th, 2012, 03:41 PM
What accounts for the gender discrepancy in invitees? Is it a reflection of there being more women's swimming programs? Or did fewer women make the cut? Or something else?

The figure of 270 men and 322 Women has been around since 2006. But in the past 6 years, the NCAA never invites this amount. This year its 235 Men from 42 teams and 281 women from 64 teams. I believe you are right on the first point about the greater number for the Women being that there are more Women College Swimming programs. This year more Women made the cut than Men but you could figure it out by each event by taking the 30 Women invitees divided by the total amount of Women making the B cut. In some events its up to 72 swimmers and it can be as low as 33 swimmers as is the case of the 1650 Free. All relays for Women are restricted to 15 this year according to the psych sheets.

It appears that in the Men's events, 17 swimmers will be invited per event and again its different by event. For example, the 50 Free has 17 invited swimmers divided by 82 swimmers that ended the B cut for a % lower than 25%. I have a feeling a lot more swimmers will swim this event because if they are part of the relay invitation, then they will swim this event. You will see larger numbers in the 100 Free, 200 Free, and the 100 Back if a swimmer is committed to a relay in the entry. An event like the 400 IM that has 17 invited swimmers out of 28 that made the B cut has one of the largest % of men invited by event. All relays for Men are restricted to 12 except the 200 Medley Relay at 13 because of a tie between Tennessee and Louisville for the 12 place seed time.

The bottom line in all this is that the NCAA Division 1 meet does not want to have more than 5 to 6 heats of swimmers. Now Rich had mentioned that there is kind of a discrimination if you are not part of a relay but have say the 20th time and you are not invited to the meet. This statement is true to a certain extent but in some cases would not be true if a swimmer had a significantly slower time than others on the team, you would be committed to swimming this person in a relay and you might not make top 8 because of this. The times are so close in both the 100 Free and 200 Free that a person would have to be in the running in the event otherwise you could become a casualty of not qualifying top 8 or not even top 16 in the relay event.

For both NCAA meets, if you qualify as a relay swimmer, you can swim any event that you make a B time standard cutoff time. But you must swim that relay that the team committed you to or you will not be permitted to swim the other events. You are only committed to swim the prelims of that event. For most of the big schools, I think they want to maximize the talent they bring and with the cap of 18 swimmers, I don't think there is more than 4 to 5 swimmers per team because you do not want to get in a situation where you have to use these swimmers when you have swimmers on your roster that made either an A or B cut and with relays being double the points, a coach is not going to risk that.

I would have to honestly say that the NCAA rules do favor the big, successful, college programs and this is probably one of the reasons why swimmers choose to be with these programs. Since 1985, on the Men side, if you take Michigan, Cal, and Arizona out of the NCAA picture, you have 3 schools that have won the championship and those are Texas with 9, Auburn with 8, and Stanford with 7. On the Women's side you have 4 schools in 28 years that have won the majority of the championships with Stanford at 8, Texas at 7, Auburn at 5, Georgia at 4, Florida at 2, and Southern Cal and California at one each. Of course type of school, coach, facilities, and swimming history are the other reasons.

jim thornton
March 9th, 2012, 04:07 PM
This year more Women made the cut than Men...

...Now Rich had mentioned that there is kind of a discrimination if you are not part of a relay but have say the 20th time and you are not invited to the meet. This statement is true to a certain extent but in some cases would not be true if a swimmer had a significantly slower time than others on the team, you would be committed to swimming this person in a relay and you might not make top 8 because of this. The times are so close in both the 100 Free and 200 Free that a person would have to be in the running in the event otherwise you could become a casualty of not qualifying top 8 or not even top 16 in the relay event.

For both NCAA meets, if you qualify as a relay swimmer, you can swim any event that you make a B time standard cutoff time. But you must swim that relay that the team committed you to or you will not be permitted to swim the other events. You are only committed to swim the prelims of that event. For most of the big schools, I think they want to maximize the talent they bring and with the cap of 18 swimmers, I don't think there is more than 4 to 5 swimmers per team because you do not want to get in a situation where you have to use these swimmers when you have swimmers on your roster that made either an A or B cut and with relays being double the points, a coach is not going to risk that....

Skip, you never cease to amaze me with your knowledge of swimming minutiae, history, and lore.

Question 1: does the fact that women appear to have qualified at higher rates then men support my contention that changes in FINA legal swimwear has affected men's times more deleteriously than women's? And if so, could you please communicate to dearest Leslie just how much things have changed for us fellows--and how little they have changed for the womenfolk?

Question 2: Given your expertise in deciphering NCAA regulations, I was hoping you might deconstruct a few quotes from the Talmud that I find puzzling.

Beware of too much laughter, for it deadens the mind and produces oblivion. (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/2314.html) http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_info.gif (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/2314.html)http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_plus.gif (http://www.quotationspage.com/myquotations.php?add=2314)http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_email.gif (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/2314.html#email)http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_blank.gif
The TalmudInstinctively, I sense this is true. But why then are there so many great Jewish comedians? Is this a prophetic smackdown of Seinfeld, Louie, and Curb Your Enthusiasm? Why would God do such a thing to the Chosen People?Until a child is one year old it is incapable of sin. (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/20950.html) http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_info.gif (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/20950.html)http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_plus.gif (http://www.quotationspage.com/myquotations.php?add=20950)http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_email.gif (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/20950.html#email)http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_blank.gif
The TalmudIs there some sort of book end to this? I am about to enter my first FINA 60-64 age group competition, God be willing and I do not ruin myself with laughter's oblivion before then. I am FINA-Three Score. Surely, as one approaches the years of ones dotage, there comes a time when his cognitive and moral capacities decline--bell-shaped curve-like--back towards the capacities of his toddler years.
When, I ask you, will I once again be incapable of sin? (It cannot happen too soon!)

Thanks, Skip! And Rich, please feel free to contribute your own Talmudic insights to these two puzzling passages.

Karl_S
March 9th, 2012, 04:13 PM
Whoever thinks up NCAA rules must be first cousin to those who write the tax code. This makes me wonder if NCAA can get anything right. They have the BCS bowl-game mess that almost nobody likes. Then there is the canceling of mens sports in the name of title IX. (It's like they are trying to make us all hate what was inherently a very good idea that was tremendously beneficial to women, women's sports, public health, and probably until recently beneficial to mens sports as well.) Then there are contrived rules about "professionalism" that prevent college kids from having jobs in the summer doing the one thing that they are best qualified to do, and numerous other ludicrous consequences. ...Well I guess the NCAA basketball tournament selection, while controversial, does result in a tournament that is widely enjoyed.

I guess the problem with NCAA sports stems from the same root as the problems in politics: $

The Fortress
March 9th, 2012, 04:31 PM
Skip, you never cease to amaze me with your knowledge of swimming minutiae, history, and lore.

Question 1: does the fact that women appear to have qualified at higher rates then men support my contention that changes in FINA legal swimwear has affected men's times more deleteriously than women's? And if so, could you please communicate to dearest Leslie just how much things have changed for us fellows--and how little they have changed for the womenfolk?

Skip is amazing.

:dedhorse:

I highly doubt that even potential male NCAA qualifiers have noticed or advanced this thesis, Jimby ... And there is one way that males can drop more time at taper than women -- shaving. Shaving makes virtually no difference for women and a huge difference for men. :-P

If I can swim faster now than I did with tech suits, so can you. You just may have to add some HIT yards to the slow il garbagio.

That Guy
March 9th, 2012, 04:35 PM
An event like the 400 IM that has 17 invited swimmers out of 28 that made the B cut has one of the largest % of men invited by event.

According to the uncut psych sheet (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/0c687491-0338-4244-8524-3176bf932d55/DI%20Men%20-%20Entry%20List.pdf), 103 swimmers made the B cut in the 400 IM. Not 28.

jim thornton
March 9th, 2012, 04:43 PM
Skip is amazing.

:dedhorse:

I highly doubt that even potential male NCAA qualifiers have noticed or advanced this thesis, Jimby ... And there is one way that males can drop more time at taper than women -- shaving. Shaving makes virtually no difference for women and a huge difference for men. :-P

If I can swim faster now than I did with tech suits, so can you. You just may have to add some HIT yards to the slow il garbagio.

Point 1. There are many endeavors, including but not limited to, Internet entertainment, where shaving makes a substantial difference in women's performance.

Point 2. My argument, Leslie, is that you women are still swimming in virtually unchanged tech suits! There is a little less floatation, yes, and the lower legs are not covered, and (until the closed back suits) you have a bit less coverage on the back, but the suits you now wear are essentially indistinguishable from early to mid-term high tech body suits. It is the percentage of the body covered that is the single most important factor! You are comparing Granny Smiths to Red Delicious Apples. We guys are comparing Granny Smiths to wildebeests.

Point 3:
Hold no man responsible for what he says in his grief. (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/36412.html) http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_info.gif (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/36412.html)http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_plus.gif (http://www.quotationspage.com/myquotations.php?add=36412)http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_email.gif (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/36412.html#email)http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_blank.gif
The Talmud

Rob Copeland
March 9th, 2012, 04:54 PM
The figure of 270 men and 322 Women has been around since 2006. But in the past 6 years, the NCAA never invites this amount. This year its 235 Men from 42 teams and 281 women from 64 teams.Skip, the 272 and 322 are for swimming AND diving.

As noted before, 35 men’s and 41 women’s divers are invited.

Men’s: 235 swimmers + 35 divers = 270 men
Women’s: 281 swimmers + 41 divers = 322 women

And yes the difference between men’s total and women’s total is based on the number of Division 1 men’s and women’s swimming programs, relative to the number of other Division 1 varsity sports programs.

The Fortress
March 9th, 2012, 05:06 PM
Point 2. My argument, Leslie, is that you women are still swimming in virtually unchanged tech suits!

Now, this is just false. Gone are: lower leg coverage, back coverage, zippers (which provide much more compression for the parts that must legally be covered), compression from the different material, and float. Most women have, in fact, been swimming slower.

You need to make your peace with the fact that you can't dress like a woman. Be happy you get the big shaving time drop and move on!

Frank Thompson
March 9th, 2012, 05:37 PM
According to the uncut psych sheet (http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/0c687491-0338-4244-8524-3176bf932d55/DI%20Men%20-%20Entry%20List.pdf), 103 swimmers made the B cut in the 400 IM. Not 28.

Mr. That Guy:

I have linked where I got this information and it was the DIV 1 Men's psych sheet that I believe Ande linked and its here on page 3

http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/1e08a17c-c463-45ce-a12e-812f3a675f74/DI%20Men%20-%20Psych%20Sheet.pdf

The uncut psych sheet that you are referring to here http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/d8dd94a7-41e9-43ab-b14f-6d9036b11d34/DI%20Men%20-%20Entry%20List.pdf

What I was referring to is the individuals that made the B cut that were invited. The A standard time in the 400 IM is 3:43.68 and the B standard is 3:54.86 and the last swimmer invited was a 3:47.48 for the 17th spot. They only went 10 deep for consideration and my guess is that these other swimmers either made an A or B cut in another event or were part of a relay and made a cut as well.

The point I was trying to make and maybe poorly is that not all events will have the same % of entrants that make the B cut invited into the meet. The 400 IM has 28 swimmers in the event out of 103 that made the cut for a 27.2% invitation rate. The 50 Free has 83 swimmers in the event out of 139 that made the cut for a 59.7%. Why is that? I really don't know. I don't think they are discriminating against distance swimmers and favoring sprinters and it might be a time line issue with the meet.

The relays are a fixed amount so that % is consistent throughout.

Frank Thompson
March 9th, 2012, 05:56 PM
Skip, the 272 and 322 are for swimming AND diving.

As noted before, 35 men’s and 41 women’s divers are invited.

Men’s: 235 swimmers + 35 divers = 270 men
Women’s: 281 swimmers + 41 divers = 322 women

And yes the difference between men’s total and women’s total is based on the number of Division 1 men’s and women’s swimming programs, relative to the number of other Division 1 varsity sports programs.

I forgot about the diving and I shouldn't because that is 3 scored events and can make a difference in the outcome and I remember both Texas and Auburn being helped by this in one of there Championships.

Jazz Hands
March 9th, 2012, 06:40 PM
NJCAA's are this weekend. This is rather impressive; an NJCAA record leadoff and an NJCAA record relay. Also, @ 1:17.70, these guys would be #8 on the D1 psych sheet!

Event 8 Men 200 Yard Freestyle Relay
================================================== ================================
NJCAA: 1:18.78 2009 , Indian River SC
E Walling, K Wyman, N Hein, N Schwartz
School Seed Finals Points
================================================== ================================
1 Indian River Sta 'A' 1:23.11 1:17.70 64
1) Tandy, Bradley 20 2) Mosley, Logan 20
3) Flores, Luis 17 4) Weir, Caleb 20
19.06 38.86 (19.80)
58.36 (19.50) 1:17.70 (19.34)

Wait, what? Where did you find this? Who is Bradley Tandy?

That Guy
March 9th, 2012, 07:33 PM
Wait, what? Where did you find this? Who is Bradley Tandy?
http://www.sportstiming.com/LiveResults/NJCAA-IRSC/2012-03-07/

Frank Thompson
March 9th, 2012, 07:43 PM
Skip, you never cease to amaze me with your knowledge of swimming minutiae, history, and lore.

Question 1: does the fact that women appear to have qualified at higher rates then men support my contention that changes in FINA legal swimwear has affected men's times more deleteriously than women's? And if so, could you please communicate to dearest Leslie just how much things have changed for us fellows--and how little they have changed for the womenfolk?

Question 2: Given your expertise in deciphering NCAA regulations, I was hoping you might deconstruct a few quotes from the Talmud that I find puzzling.

Beware of too much laughter, for it deadens the mind and produces oblivion. (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/2314.html) http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_info.gif (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/2314.html)http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_plus.gif (http://www.quotationspage.com/myquotations.php?add=2314)http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_email.gif (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/2314.html#email)http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_blank.gif
The TalmudInstinctively, I sense this is true. But why then are there so many great Jewish comedians? Is this a prophetic smackdown of Seinfeld, Louie, and Curb Your Enthusiasm? Why would God do such a thing to the Chosen People?Until a child is one year old it is incapable of sin. (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/20950.html) http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_info.gif (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/20950.html)http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_plus.gif (http://www.quotationspage.com/myquotations.php?add=20950)http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_email.gif (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/20950.html#email)http://www.quotationspage.com/icon_blank.gif
The TalmudIs there some sort of book end to this? I am about to enter my first FINA 60-64 age group competition, God be willing and I do not ruin myself with laughter's oblivion before then. I am FINA-Three Score. Surely, as one approaches the years of ones dotage, there comes a time when his cognitive and moral capacities decline--bell-shaped curve-like--back towards the capacities of his toddler years.
When, I ask you, will I once again be incapable of sin? (It cannot happen too soon!)

Thanks, Skip! And Rich, please feel free to contribute your own Talmudic insights to these two puzzling passages.

To answer question 1, the Women's meet is going to be larger because of the larger NCAA swimming programs as compared to Men like Rob said. The way they set the A and B standards reflect that because there are more Women qualifiers and with that they make the invitation at 30 for Women and 17 for Men. After the 30 and 17 invitation marks it depends on if a swimmer qualified in other events or if they made a relay and made the B standard, then he or she gets invited regardless of where they rank. The NCAA draws the line at where that B cut will stop and its different for different events.

I have always believed that suits made a bigger difference in the Long Course World Championship events. Most of the colleges did not race with tech suits during the dual meet season. The times for the NCAA Championship Meets were obviously faster but only in 2009 and only a few teams had access to the Jaked suits.

To prove this if you look at the NCAA Records, most of the neoprene records have been broken but there are some that may be there for a while. Tyler Clary's 400 IM record of 3:35.98 that just barely broke the Phelps American Record at 3:36.26 is one where the suit made a difference. Some swimmers swam better than others and some are very close to what they did with the suits. Most of the rest of the Men's records swimmers have been within a half a second without the suits.

In the women, Vollmer in the 200 Free, Breeden in the 200 Fly, and Soni in the 200 Breast have tech suit records from 2009 and I don't believe any of these records are out of reach for any of the current swimmers now.

Two relay records from 2009 went down with Stanford going 1:15.26 last year in the Men's 200 Free Relay and Cal going 6:52.69 in the Women's 800 Free Relay.

I think with Men master swimmers, especially with yourself and myself is that we could use covered suits for years. Until the summer of 2010, I had always worn a covered suit for any tapered meet and the last time I didn't was the 1994 Buffalo Nationals. It went from S2000, Aquablade, FS1, FS2, LZR, and then Neoprene. The big adjustment for us was going uncovered from the belly up and that was an adjustment for some not so for others.

Since Women have always worn covered suits, the adjustment was the material change and I don't know what value to put on that if any. There was a rumor that covered suits were going to come back for Men about 2 years ago and FINA maybe would consider it but since that time I do not believe that is going to happen and Men will never be able to swim with covered suits like the past.

I will let others answer question 2 because I am not intellectual enough.

Frank Thompson
March 9th, 2012, 07:55 PM
Wait, what? Where did you find this? Who is Bradley Tandy?

Both of the 200 Relays are impressive with the 200 FR a bit better. It will be interesting to see if these times (200 FR - 1:17.70 220 MD- 1:26.65) score in the consolation heats at NCAA. Bradley Tandy will be a good recruit if he transfers and maybe we will see him at some top Div 1 program.

That Guy
March 10th, 2012, 09:36 PM
Both of the 200 Relays are impressive with the 200 FR a bit better. It will be interesting to see if these times (200 FR - 1:17.70 220 MD- 1:26.65) score in the consolation heats at NCAA. Bradley Tandy will be a good recruit if he transfers and maybe we will see him at some top Div 1 program.

He led off the 400 free relay with a 42.76 to go with that earlier 19.06. I'm sure there's room for him somewhere :)

jaadams1
March 10th, 2012, 11:41 PM
I'm sure there's room for him somewhere :)

Like on top of the 1st place podium? :applaud:

Daaaave
March 13th, 2012, 03:09 PM
Mr. That Guy:


The point I was trying to make and maybe poorly is that not all events will have the same % of entrants that make the B cut invited into the meet. The 400 IM has 28 swimmers in the event out of 103 that made the cut for a 27.2% invitation rate. The 50 Free has 83 swimmers in the event out of 139 that made the cut for a 59.7%. Why is that? I really don't know. I don't think they are discriminating against distance swimmers and favoring sprinters and it might be a time line issue with the meet.

The relays are a fixed amount so that % is consistent throughout.


It's not a timeline issue at all, just an artifact of how swimmers' ability across multiple events is concentrated or spread.

The 400 IM has fewer entrants because relatively few people will have been invited to the meet as part of a relay and/or a non-400IM individual event and also happen to have swum a B-cut in the 400 IM.

Whereas for the 50 free, many more swimmers will have been invited to the meet as part of, say, the 200 free relay or any of the 100s and also have swum a B-cut 50 free at some point during the year.

Think about the 200 Free relay alone. If 12 relays are guaranteed an invite, and you believe that most (if not all) swimmers on a top-12 relay are faster than the b-cut in the individual 50, you already have up to 48 swimmers on the psych scheet in that event: those above the invite line, and the others with the B-cut who are at the meet via their relay.

Put another way, the 33-rd fastest 50 freestyler is likely to be on his team's invited 200 free relay and/or be fast enough to be invited in a 100 fr/bk/fl/br. The 33rd fastest 400 IM'er is not nearly as likely to be on a top-12 relay or top 17-20 in another solo event. This is why college recruiting favors sprinters.

Broadly, once you establish the selection constraints (A cuts, B cuts, finite max/mins of swimmers and relays) there aren't really any subjective "judgement calls" -- there aren't "snubs" like in basketball. It's quantitative and replicable; the psych sheet would be the same if different people administered it again.

gdanner
March 13th, 2012, 03:22 PM
He led off the 400 free relay with a 42.76 to go with that earlier 19.06. I'm sure there's room for him somewhere :)

I'm guessing Frank meant whether or not the kid can meet eligibility requirements.

That Guy
March 13th, 2012, 04:53 PM
I'm guessing Frank meant whether or not the kid can meet eligibility requirements.
Here is a bit more information about him: http://www.collegeswimming.com/news/2012/mar/12/yes-you-are-reading-correctly/

ande
March 15th, 2012, 12:47 PM
Women's Swimming & Diving Division I Championship - NCAA.com (http://www.ncaa.com/championships/swimming-women/d1) start today

March 15 - 17, 2012 in Auburn, AL (Central Time)

RESULTS (http://results.teamunify.com/nsss/results/NCAA/2012Women/)

That Guy
March 15th, 2012, 01:53 PM
Event 3 Women 200 Yard IM
================================================== ================
NCAA: ! 1:52.31 2/25/2010 Julia Smit, Stanford
American: @ 1:52.31 2/25/2010 Julia Smit, Stanford
U.S. Open: # 1:52.31 2/25/2010 Julia Smit, Stanford
Auburn Pool: $ 1:55.18 2/19/2009 Ava Ohlgren, Auburn
1:56.13 A Standard
2:01.93 B Standard
Name Year School Seed Prelims
================================================== ================
=== Preliminaries ===

1 Leverenz, Caitl JR Cal Berkeley 1:52.43 1:53.31$qA
25.20 54.02 (28.82)
1:25.79 (31.77) 1:53.31 (27.52)
2 Hosszu, Katinka SR Southern Cali 1:52.37 1:53.43$qA
24.75 53.23 (28.48)
1:27.13 (33.90) 1:53.43 (26.30)
-- Beisel, Elizabe SO Florida 1:54.83 DQ
25.15 53.23 (28.08)
1:26.64 (33.41) DQ (27.23)

That Guy
March 15th, 2012, 02:39 PM
New NCAA record for Cal... :applaud:

Event 6 Women 400 Yard Medley Relay
================================================== ==================
NCAA: ! 3:28.26 2/24/2012 California
C Tran, C Lenerenz, S Isakovic, L Jensen
American: @ 3:28.31 3/20/2009 Arizona
A Agy, A Chandler, L Jackson, J Schluntz
U.S. Open: # 3:28.26 2/24/2012 California
C Tran, C Leverenz, S Isakovic, L Jensen
Auburn Pool: $ 3:04.58 2/20/2009 Auburn
Goh, Lawrence, Ohlgren, Vanderpool-Wallace
3:32.56 A Standard
3:43.18 B Standard
School Seed Prelims
================================================== ==================
=== Preliminaries ===

1 Cal Berkeley 'A' 3:28.26 3:28.14!qA
1) Cindy Tran SO 2) Caitlin Leverenz JR
3) Sara Isakovic SR 4) Katherine Raatz SR
24.09 50.98 (50.98)
1:18.16 (27.18) 1:49.04 (58.06)
2:12.63 (23.59) 2:40.07 (51.03)
3:02.59 (22.52) 3:28.14 (48.07)

knelson
March 15th, 2012, 03:13 PM
Did you notice what they've got listed as the pool record for the medley relay? Looks like they might have listed the free relay instead.

pwb
March 15th, 2012, 03:49 PM
New NCAA record for Cal... :applaud:

Event 6 Women 400 Yard Medley Relay
================================================== ==================
NCAA: ! 3:28.26 2/24/2012 California
C Tran, C Lenerenz, S Isakovic, L Jensen
American: @ 3:28.31 3/20/2009 Arizona
A Agy, A Chandler, L Jackson, J Schluntz
U.S. Open: # 3:28.26 2/24/2012 California
C Tran, C Leverenz, S Isakovic, L Jensen
Auburn Pool: $ 3:04.58 2/20/2009 Auburn
Goh, Lawrence, Ohlgren, Vanderpool-Wallace
3:32.56 A Standard
3:43.18 B Standard
School Seed Prelims
================================================== ==================
=== Preliminaries ===

1 Cal Berkeley 'A' 3:28.26 3:28.14!qA
1) Cindy Tran SO 2) Caitlin Leverenz JR
3) Sara Isakovic SR 4) Katherine Raatz SR
24.09 50.98 (50.98)
1:18.16 (27.18) 1:49.04 (58.06)
2:12.63 (23.59) 2:40.07 (51.03)
3:02.59 (22.52) 3:28.14 (48.07)
Come over to The Swimmer's Circle and let me know what you think about the implications of the splits for the individual events ... http://theswimmerscircle.com/2012/03/15/reading-the-medley-relay-split-tea-leaves/

That Guy
March 15th, 2012, 04:03 PM
Did you notice what they've got listed as the pool record for the medley relay? Looks like they might have listed the free relay instead.
My guess is that it is the men's 400 medley relay pool record. :anim_coffee:

Rob Copeland
March 15th, 2012, 04:29 PM
My guess is that it is the men's 400 medley relay pool record. :anim_coffee:Good guess!!! Auburn Pool record of 3:04.58 is from Auburn’s Men’s 400 Medley Relay at the 2009 SEC championships

1 Auburn University 3:04.58
1) Wollach, Pascal JR 2) r:0.31 Klein, Adam SO
3) r:0.28 Madson, Logan SR 4) r:0.08 Targett, Matt SR
58 22.22 46.20 24.21 52.37 20.70 45.48 18.78 40.53

That Guy
March 15th, 2012, 09:58 PM
A 19-year-old NCAA record fell tonight at Division II's. John Keppeler now swims for the Bainbridge Aquatic Masters here in the Pacific Northwest. :applaud:

Event 17 Men 200 Yard Freestyle
================================================== =======================
Division II: R 1:35.81 3/11/1993 John Keppeler, UC Davis
Name Year School Prelims Finals Points
================================================== =======================
=== Championship Finals ===

1 Seryy, Andrey SR Wayne State 1:36.61 1:35.61R 20
r:+0.74 21.58 45.93 (24.35)
1:10.99 (25.06) 1:35.61 (24.62)
2 Denysenko, Iaroslav SO Wingate 1:36.36 1:35.63R 17
r:+0.80 22.68 46.93 (24.25)
1:11.05 (24.12) 1:35.63 (24.58)

smontanaro
March 15th, 2012, 10:33 PM
New NCAA record for Cal... :applaud:

Making up for their men's basketball team...

S

That Guy
March 15th, 2012, 10:45 PM
Event 3 Women 200 Yard IM
================================================== =======================
NCAA: ! 1:52.31 2/25/2010 Julia Smit, Stanford
American: @ 1:52.31 2/25/2010 Julia Smit, Stanford
U.S. Open: # 1:52.31 2/25/2010 Julia Smit, Stanford
Auburn Pool: $ 1:55.18 2/19/2009 Ava Ohlgren, Auburn
1:56.13 A Standard
2:01.93 B Standard
Name Year School Prelims Finals Points
================================================== =======================
=== A - Final ===

1 Leverenz, Caitl JR Cal Berkeley 1:53.31 1:51.77!A 20
24.75 53.22 (28.47)
1:24.34 (31.12) 1:51.77 (27.43)
2 Hosszu, Katinka SR Southern Cali 1:53.43 1:51.80!A 17
24.39 52.29 (27.90)
1:25.01 (32.72) 1:51.80 (26.79)

:bow:

pwb
March 16th, 2012, 10:22 PM
Simply awesome swimming tonight across the board -- 4 American records and Cal is unstoppable. 2 of those American records -- Leverenz in 400 IM and Larson in 100 breast set by former Arizona age groupers. Note that Breeja Larson also trained with Mesa Masters.

Great write-up here -- http://theswimmerscircle.com/2012/03/17/womens-ncaa-championships-fast-swims-and-records-already-through-the-first-four-events/.

knelson
March 16th, 2012, 11:25 PM
Cal is unstoppable.

I don't know, Patrick. Although Cal is still ahead, Georgia won the 800 relay and they are going to score lots of points in the 1650 and stroke 200s tomorrow. They've also got Megan Romano who broke the AR in the 200 free tonight. I think it could end up being close!

edit: just looked at tomorrow's heat sheet and Georgia is really going to be hurt by the 200 fly. They only have one swimmer in the event and she is well outside the circle seeded heats. Georgia could win a couple events tomorrow night, but I doubt they have the depth to cut into Cal's lead by much.

gobears
March 17th, 2012, 09:25 PM
Go Bears! :applaud:

ande
March 19th, 2012, 10:58 AM
Men's Swimming & Diving Division I Championship - NCAA.com (http://www.ncaa.com/championships/swimming-men/d1)
Begin this Thu.

March 22 - 24
Weyerhaeuser King County Aquatic Center
Seattle, WA

RESULTS (http://www.swmeets.com/Realtime/NCAA/2012/)

PSYCH SHEET (http://usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/ee95c664-5249-495a-94a5-f97a166523dd/DI%20Men%20-%20Psych%20Sheet%20Updated%203-13.pdf)

Team Scores Based on the PSYCH SHEET Seed Times (http://swimswam.com/2012/03/scoring-the-2012-mens-ncaa-championship-psych-sheets/)

JimRude
March 19th, 2012, 11:04 AM
Men's Swimming & Diving Division I Championship - NCAA.com (http://www.ncaa.com/championships/swimming-men/d1)
Begin this Thu.

March 22 - 24
Weyerhaeuser King County Aquatic Center
Seattle, WA

RESULTS (http://www.swmeets.com/Realtime/NCAA/2012/)

Got our tix, heading up Thu morning early.

GO BEARS!

Sojerz
March 19th, 2012, 11:48 AM
Day
Date
Time (ET)
Round
Site
Network
Air
Friday
3/23/2012
10:00 PM
Day 2
Weyerhaeuser King County Aquatic Center - Federal Way, WA
ESPN3
Live
Saturday
3/24/2012
10:00 PM
Day 3
Weyerhaeuser King County Aquatic Center - Federal Way, WA
ESPN3
Live
Sunday
4/1/2012
12:30 PM
Championship
Weyerhaeuser King County Aquatic Center - Federal Way, WA
ESPNU
Tape Delay

Sojerz
March 19th, 2012, 12:01 PM
Thursday, March 22

Trials:
2 p.m.
1. 200-yard Freestyle Relay
10-minute intermission starting immediately at the conclusion of the relay
2. 500-yard Freestyle
3. 200-yard Individual Medley
4. 50-yard Freestyle
20-minute intermission
6. 400-yard Medley Relay
5. One-meter Diving—Trials*




Finals
10 p.m.
1. 200-yard Freestyle Relay
2. 500-yard Freestyle
3. 200-yard Individual Medley
4. 50-yard Freestyle
5. One-meter Diving—Finals*
6. 400-yard Medley Relay



Friday, March 23


Trials
2 p.m.
7. 200-yard Medley Relay
10-minute intermission starting immediately at the conclusion of the relay
8. 400-yard Individual Medley
9. 100-yard Butterfly
10. 200-yard Freestyle
11. 100-yard Breaststroke
12. 100-yard Backstroke
20-minute intermission
14. 800-yard Freestyle Relay—All but last three heats of time finals
13. Three-meter Diving—Trials*




Finals
10 p.m.
7. 200-yard Medley Relay
8. 400-yard Individual Medley
9. 100-yard Butterfly
10. 200-yard Freestyle
11. 100-yard Breaststroke
12. 100-yard Backstroke
13. Three-meter Diving—Finals*
14. 800-yard Freestyle Relay—Last three heats of time finals



Saturday, March 24

Trials
2 p.m.
16. 200-yard Backstroke
17. 100-yard Freestyle
18. 200-yard Breaststroke
19. 200-yard Butterfly
20-minute intermission
21. 400-yard Freestyle Relay
20. Platform Diving—Trials*
15. 1,650-yard Freestyle—All but last heat of time finals




Finals
10 p.m.
15. 1,650-yard Freestyle—Last heat of time finals
16. 200-yard Backstroke
17. 100-yard Freestyle
18. 200-yard Breaststroke
19. 200-yard Butterfly
20. Platform Diving—Finals*
21. 400-yard Freestyle Relay

[Note 1: A consolation final immediately shall precede the championship final for each event except the 1,650-yard freestyle and diving events. Eight lanes will be used in all swimming events.]
[Note 2: The 1,650-yard freestyle event will begin at approximately 4:45 p.m., with the last heat of the preliminaries to end at approximately 6 p.m.]
[Note 3: Preliminaries for both men and women will begin at 11 a.m. Finals for both men and women will start at 7 p.m.]
[Note 4: Awards ceremonies will be held immediately after the championship final of that given event.]
[*Note 5: For a detailed schedule of diving, refer to Rule 6-2-2.]

hofffam
March 19th, 2012, 02:09 PM
Once again, the Texas Longhorn women underperformed. They swam badly at the Big12s, and disappoint again. They are no better than they were before Jill Sterkel was replaced.

Otherwise some impressive swimming by Cal (Cindy Tran especially), Texas A&M (Breeja's 100 breast US and NCAA record) and A&M's divers.

pwb
March 20th, 2012, 10:01 AM
Maybe someday we swimmers will have a bracket challenge where we pick winners by events, but, until that time, enter your team picks and play along here: http://theswimmerscircle.com/2012/03/20/you-pick-em-mens-2012-ncaa-swimming-and-diving-bracket-challenge/.

Hook 'Em!

Frank Thompson
March 21st, 2012, 02:41 PM
Maybe someday we swimmers will have a bracket challenge where we pick winners by events, but, until that time, enter your team picks and play along here: http://theswimmerscircle.com/2012/03/20/you-pick-em-mens-2012-ncaa-swimming-and-diving-bracket-challenge/.

Hook 'Em!

This is a game I play with others.

3317

ande
March 22nd, 2012, 07:27 AM
Men's Swimming & Diving Division I Championship - NCAA.com (http://www.ncaa.com/championships/swimming-men/d1)
Begin this Today
Prelims: Noon (Pacific Time) Finals: 7:00 pm (PST)

Thu March 22 - Sat 24
Weyerhaeuser King County Aquatic Center
Seattle, WA

WATCH LIVE (http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2012-03-03/winter-championship-multimedia)

RESULTS / Heat Sheets (http://www.swmeets.com/Realtime/NCAA/2012/)

PSYCH SHEET (http://usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/ee95c664-5249-495a-94a5-f97a166523dd/DI%20Men%20-%20Psych%20Sheet%20Updated%203-13.pdf)

Team Scores Based on the PSYCH SHEET Seed Times (http://swimswam.com/2012/03/scoring-the-2012-mens-ncaa-championship-psych-sheets/)

ande
March 22nd, 2012, 02:19 PM
Thu Prelim Heat Sheet

Event 1 Men 200 Yard Freestyle Relay
================================================== =======
Championship: 1:14.08 03/26/09 Auburn
J Andkjaer, G Louw, K Norys, M Targett
American: 1:15.26 03/24/11 Stanford, Stanford
A Coville, A Staab, J Allen, A Wayne
U. S. Open: 1:14.08 03/26/09 Auburn
J Andkjaer, G Louw, K Norys, M Targett
School
================================================== =======
Heat 1 of 3 Prelims
1 Harvard 'B' 1:19.17
2 UNC 'B' 1:18.35
3 Purdue 1:17.71
4 Texas 1:17.55
5 Arizona 1:17.59
6 Louisville 1:17.74
7 Tennessee 'B' 1:19.05
8
Heat 2 of 3 Prelims
1 Georgia 'B' 1:19.16
2 Minnesota 'B' 1:18.26
3 Ohio St 1:17.70
4 Cal Berkeley 1:17.53
5 Southern Cali 1:17.58
6 Florida St 1:17.73
7 Princeton 'B' 1:18.92
8 Penn St 'B' 1:20.03
Heat 3 of 3 Prelims
1 Texas A&M 'B' 1:19.13
2 Michigan 'B' 1:17.84
3 U of Iowa 1:17.61
4 Auburn 1:16.38
5 Stanford 1:17.56
6 Florida 1:17.73
7 Virginia 'B' 1:18.91
8 Virginia Tech 'B' 1:19.39

Event 2 Men 500 Yard Freestyle
================================================== =======
Championship: 4:08.60 03/23/06 Peter Vanderkaay, Michigan
American: 4:08.54 02/09/08 Peter Vanderkaay, Club Wolverine
U. S. Open: 4:08.54 02/09/08 Peter Vanderkaay, Club Wolverine
Name Year School
================================================== =======
Heat 1 of 6 Prelims
1
2
3 Stephen Schmuhl FR Indiana 4:24.86
4 John Stilley SO UNC 4:22.49
5 Michael Pryor JR Louisville 4:24.64
6
7
8
Heat 2 of 6 Prelims
1 Robert Andrews SR Stanford 4:22.10
2 Craig Hamilton JR Louisiana St 4:22.01
3 Kyle McNeilis SR Texas 4:21.82
4 Samuel Metz SO California 4:21.43
5 Carlos Omana FR Stanford 4:21.82
6 Robert Bollier SR Stanford 4:21.94
7 Clayton Smith FR Minnesota 4:22.09
8
Heat 3 of 6 Prelims
1 Michael McBroom JR Texas 4:20.75
2 Connor Signorin SO Florida 4:20.59
3 Adam Hinshaw FR California 4:19.71
4 Andrew Gemmell SO Georgia 4:19.45
5 William Freeman SO Georgia 4:19.64
6 Brent Hitchcock SR Ohio State Unive 4:20.48
7 Clay Youngquist FR Texas 4:20.71
8 Andrew Cosgarea FR Stanford 4:21.01
Heat 4 of 6 Prelims
1 Paul Nolle SO Princeton 4:18.92
2 Eegan Groome FR Missouri 4:18.47
3 William Hamilton FR California 4:17.50
4 Connor Jaeger SO Michigan 4:15.65
5 Martin Grodzki JR Georgia 4:16.94
6 Riley Martin SR Louisville 4:18.16
7 Chad Bobrosky FR Southern Cali 4:18.65
8 Alex Miller SO Ohio State Unive 4:19.13
Heat 5 of 6 Prelims
1 Bryan Offutt SO Stanford 4:18.77
2 Jacob Ritter FR Texas 4:18.33
3 Jeremy Bagshaw SO California 4:17.45
4 Mateo De Angulo SR Florida St 4:15.43
5 Matthew Barber SO Arizona 4:16.55
6 David Mosko SR Stanford 4:18.00
7 Zane Grothe SO Auburn 4:18.57
8 Nicholas Caldwell FR Florida 4:19.12
Heat 6 of 6 Prelims
1 Jackson Wilcox SR Texas 4:18.75
2 James Barbiere JR Indiana 4:18.23
3 Chad La Tourette SR Stanford 4:17.38
4 Ryan Feeley JR Michigan 4:15.12
5 Sean Ryan SO Michigan 4:16.47
6 Cristian Quintero FR Southern Cali 4:17.83
7 Frank Dyer SO Notre Dame 4:18.50
8 Michael Weiss JR Wisconsin 4:19.07

Event 3 Men 200 Yard IM
================================================== =======
Championship: 1:40.49 03/26/09 Bradley Ally, Florida
American: 1:40.08 11/29/07 Ryan Lochte, Daytona Beach
U. S. Open: 1:40.08 11/29/07 Ryan Lochte, Daytona Beach
================================================== =======
Heat 1 of 7 Prelims
1
2 Albert Lloyd SO Louisville 1:48.91
3 Lucas Gerotto FR Kentucky 1:47.91
4 Matthew Salig SO Penn St 1:47.80
5 Brandon Fischer SR Wyoming (M) 1:47.91
6 Brendan McHugh SR Penn 1:48.11
7 Jacob Jarzen JR Mich State 1:49.21
8
Heat 2 of 7 Prelims
1 Matthew Swanston JR Stanford 1:47.64
2 Evan Browning FR Auburn 1:47.49
3 Samuel Trahin JR Indiana 1:47.42
4 Benjamin Hinshaw JR California 1:47.05
5 Thomas Luchsinger JR UNC 1:47.17
6 Jonathan Edwards FR Stanford 1:47.43
7 William Wagner JR Texas A&M 1:47.49
8 Juan Sequera FR Florida St 1:47.78
Heat 3 of 7 Prelims
1 Alex Burtch JR Louisville 1:46.86
2 Markus Sievers SR Ohio State Unive 1:46.58
3 Nathaniel Savoy FR Penn St 1:46.46
4 Charles Katis FR Harvard 1:46.34
5 Eirik Ravnan SR Stanford 1:46.37
6 Nolan Koon SR California 1:46.57
7 Drew Onken JR Davidson 1:46.69
8 Matthew Elliott FR Florida 1:46.96
Heat 4 of 7 Prelims
1 Peter Benner SR Georgia 1:46.14
2 Miles Joye SO Arizona 1:45.79
3 John Lane FR Stanford 1:45.77
4 Samuel Rowan JR Arizona 1:45.66
5 Jonathan Christensen SR Princeton 1:45.71
6 Matthew Curby FR Florida 1:45.77
7 Carlos Almeida SR Louisville 1:46.05
8 John Wojciechowski SO Michigan 1:46.20
Heat 5 of 7 Prelims
1 Austin Surhoff JR Texas 1:45.37
2 Nicolas Fink FR Georgia 1:44.86
3 Martin Liivamagi SR California 1:44.28
4 Marcin Cieslak SO Florida 1:43.01
5 Austen Thompson SR Arizona 1:43.42
6 Daniel Lester JR Wisconsin 1:44.48
7 Greg Mahon JR Virginia Tech 1:45.06
8 Matthew Thompson JR Stanford 1:45.62
Heat 6 of 7 Prelims
1 Dan Wallace FR Florida 1:45.33
2 Cody Miller SO Indiana 1:44.81
3 David Karasek SR Virginia 1:44.25
4 David Nolan FR Stanford 1:42.52
5 Kyle Whitaker SO Michigan 1:43.40
6 Daniel Madwed SR Michigan 1:44.47
7 Marcin Tarczynski SO California 1:45.00
8 Nicholas D'Innocenzo JR Texas 1:45.40
Heat 7 of 7 Prelims
1 Eduardo Solaeche-Gomez FR Florida 1:45.10
2 William Bass JR Notre Dame 1:44.81
3 Dimitri Colupaev SO Southern Cali 1:44.10
4 Cory Chitwood SR Arizona 1:41.92
5 Kyle Owens JR Auburn 1:43.30
6 James Lendrum JR Southern Cali 1:44.42
7 Scott Marino SR Penn St 1:44.97
8 Jacob Hanson JR Eastern Mich 1:45.38

Event 4 Men 50 Yard Freestyle
================================================== =======
Championship: 18.47 03/27/08 Cesar Cielo, Auburn
American: 18.66 03/24/11 Nathan Adrian, Cal Berkeley
U. S. Open: 18.47 03/27/08 Cesar Cielo, Auburn/BRA
Name Year School
================================================== =======
Heat 1 of 10 Prelims
1
2
3 Benjamin Tuben SR Duke 20.28
4 Cody Roberts JR UNLV (M) 20.26
5 Benjamin Griggs JR Minnesota 20.27
6
7
8
Heat 2 of 10 Prelims
1
2 Benjamin Wachtel SR Purdue 20.21
3 Cameron Owen SR Arizona 20.14
4 Zachary Birnbrich JR Ohio State Unive 20.11
5 Evan Reed SR UNC 20.13
6 Kameron Chastain SO Louisville 20.19
7 Gianni Sesto SO U of Iowa 20.26
8
Heat 3 of 10 Prelims
1 Zachary Holmes JR Ohio State Unive 20.07
2 Caryle Blondell FR Louisville 20.05
3 Fabio Gimondi FR California 20.04
4 Oliver Lee SO Harvard 19.99
5 Nicholas Popov JR Arizona 20.03
6 Geoffrey Cheah SR Stanford 20.05
7 Sean Fletcher JR Michigan 20.05
8 Arni Arnason SR Old Dominion 20.10
Heat 4 of 10 Prelims
1 Seth Stubblefield FR California 19.98
2 Edward Walsh JR Tennessee 19.97
3 Tyler Reed SR Kentucky 19.94
4 Zachary Bolin SR Minnesota 19.93
5 Bjoern Hornikel SO Alabama 19.93
6 Benjamin Ziolkowski JR Purdue 19.96
7 Kyle Troskot SO Texas A&M 19.97
8 Samuel Hoekstra JR Louisville 19.98
Heat 5 of 10 Prelims
1 James Turner SR Florida 19.92
2 Shayne Fleming SO California 19.90
3 Zachary Bailey JR Florida St 19.89
4 Griffin Schumacher FR Harvard 19.87
5 Mitchell Friedemann SO Arizona 19.89
6 Stephen Saeta JR Stanford 19.90
7 Charles Moore SO Texas 19.91
8 Thomas Gutman SO Arizona 19.93
Heat 6 of 10 Prelims
1 Shane Austin SO Penn St 19.86
2 Matthew Schlytter JR Louisville 19.83
3 Jeffery Daniels SR Southern Cali 19.82
4 Matthew Friede SO Purdue 19.80
5 Daxon Hill JR Texas 19.80
6 Jonathan Boffa SO NC State 19.82
7 Christopher Satterthwaite SO Harvard 19.84
8 Mindaugas Sadauskas JR SMU 19.87
Heat 7 of 10 Prelims
1 Giles Smith JR Arizona 19.79
2 Tofey Leon SO Auburn 19.76
3 Evan Gregg JR Michigan 19.72
4 Paul Gordon SR U of Iowa 19.71
5 Kyle Ficker SO UNC 19.72
6 Tyler Messerschmidt FR California 19.75
7 Derek Toomey SO Minnesota 19.79
8 Paul Murray SO Florida St 19.80
Heat 8 of 10 Prelims
1 Daniel Tucker SO Purdue 19.66
2 James Disney-May SO Auburn 19.57
3 Christopher Manning SO Auburn 19.47
4 James Feigen SR Texas 19.26
5 Adam Small SR Arizona 19.34
6 Ryan Phelan SR U of Iowa 19.52
7 Miguel Ortiz JR Michigan 19.63
8 Duncan Partridge SR U of Iowa 19.68
Heat 9 of 10 Prelims
1 John Dalton JR Texas A&M 19.63
2 Marcelo Chierighini SO Auburn 19.57
3 Karl Krug SR Auburn 19.38
4 Bradley Deborde SO Florida 19.25
5 Drew Modrov SR Auburn 19.32
6 Michael Arnold SR Georgia 19.49
7 Mark Weber JR Florida St 19.62
8 Brendon Andrews SR Louisville 19.68
Heat 10 of 10 Prelims
1 Harrison Wagner FR Princeton 19.63
2 Aaron Wayne JR Stanford 19.55
3 Eric Bruck JR Clemson 19.35
4 Jason Schnur JR Ohio State Unive 19.12
5 Vladimir Morozov SO Southern Cali 19.27
6 Kelley Wyman SR Arizona 19.47
7 Steven Cebertowicz SR UNC 19.59
8 Matthew Norton SR Florida 19.67

Event 6 Men 400 Yard Medley Relay
================================================== =======
Championship: 3:01.39 03/26/09 Auburn
P Wollach, A Klein, T McGill, M Targett
American: 3:01.91 03/26/09 Stanford
E Godsoe, P Kornfeld, A Staab, A Coville
U. S. Open: 3:01.39 03/26/09 Auburn
P Wollach, A Klein, T McGill, M Targett
School
================================================== =======Heat 1 of 3 Prelims
1
2 Indiana 'B' 3:12.23
3 Southern Cali 3:09.18
4 Stanford 3:07.32
5 Louisville 3:08.84
6 Georgia 3:10.27
7 UNC 'B' 3:14.19
8
Heat 2 of 3 Prelims
1
2 Princeton 'B' 3:11.38
3 Penn St 3:09.09
4 Michigan 3:07.32
5 Auburn 3:08.36
6 Texas 3:09.41
7 Virginia 'B' 3:13.03
8
Heat 3 of 3 Prelims
1
2 Florida 'B' 3:10.45
3 Texas A&M 3:08.92
4 Arizona 3:06.98
5 Cal Berkeley 3:07.70
6 Ohio St 3:09.37
7 Tennessee 'B' 3:12.25
8

Rob Copeland
March 22nd, 2012, 03:09 PM
It looks like there are some technical difficulties with the take-off platforms in lane 6.
200 Free Relay:
5 Louisville 1:17.74 1:17.62
1) Andrews, Brendon SR 2) r:-0.32 Schlytter, Matt JR
3) r:-0.16 Hoekstra, Sam JR 4) r:-0.31 De Lucca, Joao SO

7 Florida 1:17.73 1:17.67
1) Deborde, Bradley SO 2) r:-0.57 Norton, Matthew SR
3) r:+0.00 Turner, James SR 4) r:+0.22 Curby, Matthew FR

9 Florida St 1:17.73 1:17.92
1) Murray, Paul SO 2) r:-0.51 Bailey, Zachary JR
3) r:-0.48 Sanders, David FR 4) r:-0.65 Weber, Mark JR

Gotta love the Federal Way pool.

Some good 500 times, nothing great. It will be interesting to see who brings it at finals. IT looks like Barber and De Angulo held back a little too much in heat 5 and didn’t make top 8.

knelson
March 22nd, 2012, 03:23 PM
Some good 500 times, nothing great. It will be interesting to see who brings it at finals. IT looks like Barber and De Angulo held back a little too much in heat 5 and didn’t make top 8.

And the top seed, Ryan Feeley of Michigan, added four seconds and ended up 24th. Ouch.

Charge
March 22nd, 2012, 10:58 PM
Cal looks like they got a good one in Seth Stubblefield. Freshman clocked a 19.00 anchor on the relay and a 19.4 flat start.

Kid is a good butterflier too.

That Guy
March 23rd, 2012, 12:24 AM
1 California 3:06.70 3:03.24 40
1) Gydesen, Mathias SR 2) r:+0.16 Koon, Nolan SR
3) r:+0.10 Shields, Thomas JR 4) r:+0.20 Messerschmidt,yler FR
r:+0.64 21.90 46.07 (46.07)
1:09.81 (23.74) 1:38.00 (51.93)
1:58.15 (20.15) 2:21.56 (43.56)
2:41.04 (19.48) 3:03.24 (41.68)

43.56

43.56

pwb
March 23rd, 2012, 01:18 AM
1 California 3:06.70 3:03.24 40
1) Gydesen, Mathias SR 2) r:+0.16 Koon, Nolan SR
3) r:+0.10 Shields, Thomas JR 4) r:+0.20 Messerschmidt,yler FR
r:+0.64 21.90 46.07 (46.07)
1:09.81 (23.74) 1:38.00 (51.93)
1:58.15 (20.15) 2:21.56 (43.56)
2:41.04 (19.48) 3:03.24 (41.68)

43.56

43.56I got the privilege of seeing this live ... it was a work of art ... he crushed every wall nearly to the 15M mark, but the last wall, in particular, was stunning.

I hate to say it again ... but ...


Cal swimmers looked the best as a team in the pool tonight ... and
... why does Cal still not have any divers?

vimier
March 23rd, 2012, 03:43 AM
What strange hormones are they putting in collegiate waters these days?

Unbelievable times. It makes you feel like you are from a separate and decidedly inferior species.

I know first hand as a slower D1 male swimmer.

JimRude
March 23rd, 2012, 11:05 AM
I got the privilege of seeing this live ... it was a work of art ... he crushed every wall nearly to the 15M mark, but the last wall, in particular, was stunning.

I hate to say it again ... but ...


Cal swimmers looked the best as a team in the pool tonight ... and
... why does Cal still not have any divers?


Cal is again in good form, but it remains to be seen if they can overcome a lack of participants in the cannonball competition.

Q: Why no divers?
A: One outdoor 50m pool with no diving well; no tower; sketchy weather from October to April; water polo and swimming are the culture.

ande
March 23rd, 2012, 12:09 PM
Day 2 Div 1 Men's NCAAs

Session 3 - 12:00 PM Friday 03/23/12
#7 Men 200 Medley Relay Prelims
#8 Men 400 IM Prelims
#9 Men 100 Fly Prelims
#10 Men 200 Free Prelims
#11 Men 100 Breast Prelims
#12 Men 100 Back Prelims
#14 Men 800 Free Relay
#13 Men 3 mtr Diving Prelims


Men - Team Rankings - Through Event 6

01. Cal Berkeley 157.5
02. Stanford 140
03. Texas 128.5
04. Arizona 118
05. Auburn 106.5
06. Michigan 84
07. Southern Cali 79
08. Florida 58
09. Louisville 46
10. Texas A&M 43
11. Ohio St 42
12. Indiana 40
13. Arizona State 31
14. Georgia 25.5
15. Florida St 25
16. Penn St 22
17. UNC 20.5
18. Missouri 13
19. Clemson 12.5
20. Virginia Tech 12
21. Minnesota 10
22. Kentucky 6
22. Virginia 6
24. U of Iowa 4
25. Brigham Young 3
25. Tennessee 3
27. Wisconsin 2
27. Purdue 2



Men's Swimming & Diving Division I Championship - NCAA.com (http://www.ncaa.com/championships/swimming-men/d1)
Begin this Today
Prelims: Noon (Pacific Time) Finals: 7:00 pm (PST)

Thu March 22 - Sat 24
Weyerhaeuser King County Aquatic Center
Seattle, WA

WATCH LIVE (http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2012-03-03/winter-championship-multimedia)

RESULTS / Heat Sheets (http://www.swmeets.com/Realtime/NCAA/2012/)

PSYCH SHEET (http://usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/ee95c664-5249-495a-94a5-f97a166523dd/DI%20Men%20-%20Psych%20Sheet%20Updated%203-13.pdf)

Team Scores Based on the PSYCH SHEET Seed Times (http://swimswam.com/2012/03/scoring-the-2012-mens-ncaa-championship-psych-sheets/)

knelson
March 23rd, 2012, 12:15 PM
43.56

He's definitely got a shot at breaking the NCAA and American record in the individual event. Austin Staab has it with a 44.18.

I remember when Staab swam that time someone who was at the meet told me he basically swam the last 30 yards no breath. He didn't breathe into the third turn, didn't breathe at the wall, and did the last 25 no breath!

ande
March 23rd, 2012, 12:30 PM
Highlights from 2011 NCAAs & a walk down NCAAs memory lane (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/swimming_champs_records/2011-12/2011md1_swim.pdf)

That Guy
March 23rd, 2012, 03:55 PM
New American record in the prelims!

Event 11 Men 100 Yard Breaststroke
================================================== ================
Championship: C 50.86 3/27/2009 Damir Dugonjic, California
American: A 51.35 12/3/2010 Michael Alexandrov, Northwestern
U. S. Open: O 50.86 3/27/2009 Damir Dugonjic, Cal/SLO
Name Year School Seed Prelims
================================================== ================
=== Preliminaries ===

1 Cordes, Kevin FR Arizona 51.76 51.32A
r:+0.72 10.99 24.02 (13.03)
37.52 (13.50) 51.32 (13.80)

havepoolwillswim
March 23rd, 2012, 09:34 PM
He's definitely got a shot at breaking the NCAA and American record in the individual event. Austin Staab has it with a 44.18.

I remember when Staab swam that time someone who was at the meet told me he basically swam the last 30 yards no breath. He didn't breathe into the third turn, didn't breathe at the wall, and did the last 25 no breath!

amazing

That Guy
March 23rd, 2012, 10:14 PM
Another American record for Arizona:

Event 7 Men 200 Yard Medley Relay
================================================== ================================
Championship: C 1:22.36 3/27/2009 Auburn
J White, M Silva, M Targett, G Louw
American: A 1:23.97 3/27/2009 University of Texas
S Jostes, A Magruder, H Taylor, J Feigen
U. S. Open: O 1:22.36 3/27/2009 Auburn
J White, M Silva, M Targett, G Louw
School Prelims Finals Points
================================================== ================================
=== A - Final ===

1 Arizona 1:24.23 1:23.53A 40
1) Friedemann, Mitchell SO 2) r:+0.12 Cordes, Kevin FR
3) r:+0.21 Smith, Giles JR 4) r:+0.24 Small, Adam SR
r:+0.63 10.57 21.28 (21.28)
31.85 (10.57) 44.53 (23.25)
53.67 (9.14) 1:04.75 (20.22)
1:13.61 (8.86) 1:23.53 (18.78)
2 California 1:24.51 1:23.91 34
1) *Gydesen, Mathias SR 2) r:+0.10 *Liivamagi, Martin SR
3) r:+0.43 Shields, Thomas JR 4) r:+0.23 Messerschmidt,yler FR
r:+1.07 10.88 21.67 (21.67)
32.09 (10.42) 45.28 (23.61)
54.37 (9.09) 1:05.08 (19.80)
1:14.02 (8.94) 1:23.91 (18.83)

knelson
March 24th, 2012, 02:18 AM
I was there tonight. Very exciting! A couple observations. Tom Shields has incredible underwaters. Texas is behind, but they sure aren't going away. Great come from behind victory tonight in the 800 relay. It could be a barn burner tomorrow!

One more thing, Austen Thompson split 1:00 on the breast leg of his 400 IM. This was the easiest looking 1:00 100 breast I've ever seen in my life. Honestly it looked like he was loafing.

Sojerz
March 24th, 2012, 02:20 PM
Last night was a milestone for ND men's swimming when So. Frank Dyer placed 4th in the 200 Fr, (1:34.00) and scored the first ND men's points ever in the championships. I think only a handful of male swimmers have qualified in the past.

Thanks Ande for posting the links to watch it happen, and good luck to all of you Texas, Cal, Arizona, Auburn, MI, and other fans and alums. Looks like quite a battle today and likely to produce incredible swims today, both prelims and finals tonight.

knelson
March 24th, 2012, 02:25 PM
Here are a few photos I took last night.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/35423702@N08/sets/72157629658228317/

ElaineK
March 24th, 2012, 02:42 PM
Here are a few photos I took last night.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/35423702@N08/sets/72157629658228317/

Fantastic photography; thanks for sharing! :applaud:

knelson
March 24th, 2012, 03:06 PM
Thank you Elaine!

And I should mention that--with apologies to Tennessee Williams--I owe the great seat I had to the kindness of forumites. Well, one forumite in particular, Mr. PWB! The seat is in the second row near the turn end of the pool.

ElaineK
March 24th, 2012, 04:30 PM
Thank you Elaine!

And I should mention that--with apologies to Tennessee Williams--I owe the great seat I had to the kindness of forumites. Well, one forumite in particular, Mr. PWB! The seat is in the second row near the turn end of the pool.

Nice going, Patrick! That was a great vantage point for some close-up action photography. :applaud:

pwb
March 24th, 2012, 04:58 PM
Here are a few photos I took last night.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/35423702@N08/sets/72157629658228317/Those are awesome shots; I guess you're not just using your Blackberry camera like I was!

Sojerz
March 24th, 2012, 06:05 PM
Thanks Kirk, terrific photos, especialy liked your shots of starts and br.

jaadams1
March 24th, 2012, 08:23 PM
Thank you Elaine!

And I should mention that--with apologies to Tennessee Williams--I owe the great seat I had to the kindness of forumites. Well, one forumite in particular, Mr. PWB! The seat is in the second row near the turn end of the pool.

It's looks like you owe Patrick a :chug: just like Elaine!! :D

Awesome shots. It's almost like I'm there live!

That Guy
March 24th, 2012, 10:22 PM
That was an epic 1650. And there were no commercial breaks during the race on ESPN3!

Event 15 Men 1650 Yard Freestyle
================================================== =======================
Championship: C 14:26.62 3/24/2001 Chris Thompson, Michigan
American: A 14:26.62 3/24/2001 Chris Thompson, Michigan
U. S. Open: O 14:26.62 3/24/2001 Chris Thompson, Michigan
Name Year School Seed Finals Points
================================================== =======================
1 *Martin Grodzki JR Georgia 14:48.26 14:24.08C 20
r:+0.72 24.08 49.89 (25.81)
1:16.14 (26.25) 1:42.47 (26.33)
2:08.97 (26.50) 2:35.45 (26.48)
3:01.91 (26.46) 3:28.24 (26.33)
3:54.52 (26.28) 4:20.70 (26.18)
4:46.93 (26.23) 5:13.24 (26.31)
5:39.52 (26.28) 6:05.78 (26.26)
6:32.19 (26.41) 6:58.61 (26.42)
7:25.04 (26.43) 7:51.47 (26.43)
8:18.07 (26.60) 8:44.52 (26.45)
9:11.00 (26.48) 9:37.41 (26.41)
10:03.75 (26.34) 10:29.96 (26.21)
10:56.35 (26.39) 11:22.79 (26.44)
11:49.06 (26.27) 12:15.04 (25.98)
12:41.06 (26.02) 13:07.07 (26.01)
13:33.13 (26.06) 13:59.12 (25.99) 14:24.08 (24.96)
2 Chad La Tourette SR Stanford 14:41.90 14:24.35C 17
r:+0.81 24.19 49.89 (25.70)
1:16.16 (26.27) 1:42.49 (26.33)
2:08.96 (26.47) 2:35.46 (26.50)
3:02.15 (26.69) 3:28.60 (26.45)
3:54.93 (26.33) 4:21.18 (26.25)
4:47.41 (26.23) 5:13.75 (26.34)
5:40.12 (26.37) 6:06.32 (26.20)
6:32.66 (26.34) 6:59.14 (26.48)
7:25.42 (26.28) 7:51.81 (26.39)
8:18.15 (26.34) 8:44.38 (26.23)
9:10.87 (26.49) 9:37.12 (26.25)
10:03.34 (26.22) 10:29.60 (26.26)
10:56.20 (26.60) 11:22.82 (26.62)
11:49.24 (26.42) 12:15.69 (26.45)
12:41.70 (26.01) 13:07.82 (26.12)
13:34.15 (26.33) 14:00.29 (26.14) 14:24.35 (24.06)

jaadams1
March 25th, 2012, 12:29 AM
That was an epic 1650. And there were no commercial breaks during the race on ESPN3!

Event 15 Men 1650 Yard Freestyle
================================================== =======================
Championship: C 14:26.62 3/24/2001 Chris Thompson, Michigan
American: A 14:26.62 3/24/2001 Chris Thompson, Michigan
U. S. Open: O 14:26.62 3/24/2001 Chris Thompson, Michigan
Name Year School Seed Finals Points
================================================== =======================
1 *Martin Grodzki JR Georgia 14:48.26 14:24.08C 20
r:+0.72 24.08 49.89 (25.81)
1:16.14 (26.25) 1:42.47 (26.33)
2:08.97 (26.50) 2:35.45 (26.48)
3:01.91 (26.46) 3:28.24 (26.33)
3:54.52 (26.28) 4:20.70 (26.18)
4:46.93 (26.23) 5:13.24 (26.31)
5:39.52 (26.28) 6:05.78 (26.26)
6:32.19 (26.41) 6:58.61 (26.42)
7:25.04 (26.43) 7:51.47 (26.43)
8:18.07 (26.60) 8:44.52 (26.45)
9:11.00 (26.48) 9:37.41 (26.41)
10:03.75 (26.34) 10:29.96 (26.21)
10:56.35 (26.39) 11:22.79 (26.44)
11:49.06 (26.27) 12:15.04 (25.98)
12:41.06 (26.02) 13:07.07 (26.01)
13:33.13 (26.06) 13:59.12 (25.99) 14:24.08 (24.96)
2 Chad La Tourette SR Stanford 14:41.90 14:24.35C 17
r:+0.81 24.19 49.89 (25.70)
1:16.16 (26.27) 1:42.49 (26.33)
2:08.96 (26.47) 2:35.46 (26.50)
3:02.15 (26.69) 3:28.60 (26.45)
3:54.93 (26.33) 4:21.18 (26.25)
4:47.41 (26.23) 5:13.75 (26.34)
5:40.12 (26.37) 6:06.32 (26.20)
6:32.66 (26.34) 6:59.14 (26.48)
7:25.42 (26.28) 7:51.81 (26.39)
8:18.15 (26.34) 8:44.38 (26.23)
9:10.87 (26.49) 9:37.12 (26.25)
10:03.34 (26.22) 10:29.60 (26.26)
10:56.20 (26.60) 11:22.82 (26.62)
11:49.24 (26.42) 12:15.69 (26.45)
12:41.70 (26.01) 13:07.82 (26.12)
13:34.15 (26.33) 14:00.29 (26.14) 14:24.35 (24.06)


I wish I could've been watching it. MY ISP doesn't have the ESPN3 thing set up or something, so I was in the dark waiting for the real-time results! The whole meet has been pretty amazing!

pwb
March 25th, 2012, 01:13 AM
I wish I could've been watching it. MY ISP doesn't have the ESPN3 thing set up or something, so I was in the dark waiting for the real-time results! The whole meet has been pretty amazing!I was out to dinner. A great dinner, but that must have been an awesome race to watch. Simply awesome swims. It'd be great to see if La Tourette and some other guys can re-establish American distance swimming on the world scene.

jaadams1
March 25th, 2012, 01:51 AM
I was out to dinner. A great dinner, but that must have been an awesome race to watch. Simply awesome swims. It'd be great to see if La Tourette and some other guys can re-establish American distance swimming on the world scene.

...and to come home in a 24.06 on the final 50!! :bow: I can't even do that for a 50 Free from the blocks anymore!! :bitching:

Fresnoid
March 25th, 2012, 01:54 AM
I was out to dinner. A great dinner, but that must have been an awesome race to watch. Simply awesome swims. It'd be great to see if La Tourette and some other guys can re-establish American distance swimming on the world scene.

Not likely. Since the addition of the NCAA 200 relays, US distance swimming is doomed to eternal negligence.

Any NCAA coach who wants his team to place has to get sprinters. They have very few scholarships to give. Get guys who can do 50-100 free or stroke. Train them hard so some of them can do 200 stroke.

Cal won tonight. Finalists they had in 200-500-1650 free and 400 IM? One

jaadams1
March 25th, 2012, 02:04 AM
I just found this video of the Pac 12 Conference Champs 400 Free Relay a few weeks ago. Wait for the 4th and final leg of the relay and watch Cal in Lane #2!
PAC 12 2012 4 X 100 Free Relay - YouTube
Amazing underwaters by Tom Shields! :bow:

knelson
March 25th, 2012, 02:10 AM
It was exciting to watch. La Tourette's not a big guy so he turns it over pretty good. He was taking 15 strokes per 25. He's listed as six feet, but I don't buy it! Maybe it's just that so many other swimmers are so tall. Anyway, Grodzki definitely has a slower turnover. I believe he was taking 12 strokes per 25, at last early on. Grodzki tried to pull away after the 1000 but La Tourette just wouldn't let him get too far ahead. La Tourette definitely gave it everything he had on that last 25, but Grodzki held him off. It's about time that record finally went down!

Jazz Hands
March 25th, 2012, 08:53 AM
Rowdy Gaines is still awful. There must be at least one famous swimmer out there who can speak clearly into a microphone instead of repetitively jabbering about how various unimportant things are "so important."

smontanaro
March 25th, 2012, 10:21 AM
Amazing underwaters by Tom Shields! :bow:

Holy smokes! Was that SC in lane 4? On that last length their guy had already taken seven or eight strokes before Shields broke the surface.

Skip

Swimosaur
March 25th, 2012, 10:41 AM
How the pros do it:

= Prelims =

1. Nolan ..... 50.17 + 50.37 = 1:40.54 ... delta = 0.20!
2. Chitwood .. 49.05 + 51.70 = 1:40.75 ... delta = 2.65

= Finals =

1. Chitwood .. 49.14 + 50.52 = 1:39.66 ... delta = 1.38
2. Nolan ..... 49.43 + 50.31 = 1:39.74 ... delta = 0.88

Event 16 Men 200 Yard Backstroke

=== Preliminaries ===

1 David Nolan FR Stanford 1:40.70 1:40.54
r:+0.64 11.68 24.17 (12.49)
37.23 (13.06) 50.17 (12.94)
1:03.08 (12.91) 1:15.67 (12.59)
1:28.32 (12.65) 1:40.54 (12.22)

2 Cory Chitwood SR Arizona 1:38.85 1:40.75
r:+0.68 11.51 23.66 (12.15)
36.23 (12.57) 49.05 (12.82)
1:01.99 (12.94) 1:14.98 (12.99)
1:28.20 (13.22) 1:40.75 (12.55)

=== A - Final ===

1 Cory Chitwood SR Arizona 1:40.75 1:39.66 20
r:+1.19 11.44 23.66 (12.22)
36.45 (12.79) 49.14 (12.69)
1:01.86 (12.72) 1:14.42 (12.56)
1:27.27 (12.85) 1:39.66 (12.39)

2 David Nolan FR Stanford 1:40.54 1:39.74 17
r:+0.68 11.44 23.65 (12.21)
36.57 (12.92) 49.43 (12.86)
1:02.22 (12.79) 1:14.73 (12.51)
1:27.46 (12.73) 1:39.74 (12.28)

That Guy
March 25th, 2012, 12:51 PM
Not likely. Since the addition of the NCAA 200 relays, US distance swimming is doomed to eternal negligence.

Any NCAA coach who wants his team to place has to get sprinters. They have very few scholarships to give. Get guys who can do 50-100 free or stroke. Train them hard so some of them can do 200 stroke.

Cal won tonight. Finalists they had in 200-500-1650http://forums.usms.org/data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABAAAAAQCAYAAAA f8/9hAAAACXBIWXMAAA7EAAAOxAGVKw4bAAAAIGNIUk0AAHolAACA gwAA+f8AAIDpAAB1MAAA6mAAADqYAAAXb5JfxUYAAAKLSURBVH jadJPfS5NhFMe/21xvuhXRyJAZroiSrJnbRdT7vrAf5HBaK5RABmEEwQIvkpZ/QRcWXdSFw5soKaF0F7qZeLO13mGBDpQsf5CoxVKHOt0Pctp2uv EdrzG/V+c553w/54HnPDIiQiGpPMETABoB2AAYd9MRAMMAvGmX+RcAyAoBVJ7gZQ DtABworH4AHWmX+bOMZdkjCoXiUzabvcAwzPSsob5p/VTNY9GcdpnxdmYZ9wJThSCtCr1e/4XjuNPd3d1KjUZzaGbI27ysqzGQoggAsLa1A7ehArrDxfDNr0o BlQB+wmKxbJFEL968SxoamsjkHaPU9l9piUo6A0RE1DG2QCWdA SrpDAzJM5kMI8XecdjVxfEl+K9dxFgsgUvvR6HyBKHyBAEATyK LeGSsENuNcqk5kUjEGm7fzcYqr0ClVODl99+YXEvl6+c1amjVe +ahiGGYaUEQKnmeh91uL43rqheixjpdmzCL11er0PcjhrTLvMf UJsyKYUSeyWQ6enp6tgCgrKxsfbP8bB8AdE1G89cOReMAgOv+C ag8QXRNRkXAsDwcDr+am5tLCYKA3t7eo2dG+1vVK/MfpRPtA+MIReMYaKj+/xm9MiICx3EmpVL5wefzFavValis1u1vvHMkdfykCQC0kSGUTo+ Ajmnx1dSC7IGD+UUCEYGIwLKsyWazrSeTSSIiMpnNf7Ttz5+ec 96fr7/VnE0mk+QfHMzV3WjcKH/4rEr05QGFIA6HY4llWRLPRER+v3/HYrFMFQSIkNra2tVQKJSlfcSyLO0LECFWq3XF6XRGA4HAptTsd rsXeZ6fEHtl+31nAOA4rkUulz/I5XL63dQGgHEAN8Ph8AYA/BsAt4ube4GblQIAAAAASUVORK5CYII= (http://forums.usms.org/#) free and 400 IM? One

Not to take anything away from La Tourette, but he's a two-event swimmer in terms of scoring potential. He was third in the 500, second in the 1650, DFL in the 4IM, and was not on any relays. Swimmers like Tom Shields and David Nolan are far more valuable to their teams because of their versatility (and, ok, also because of their speedy speedy speed speed :D).

Midas
March 26th, 2012, 12:09 PM
What strange hormones are they putting in collegiate waters these days?

Unbelievable times. It makes you feel like you are from a separate and decidedly inferior species.

It took these guys less time than expected to overcome the tech suits. Bodes well for some new records in London...

james lucas
March 26th, 2012, 02:22 PM
Any NCAA coach who wants his team to place has to get sprinters. They have very few scholarships to give. Get guys who can do 50-100 free or stroke. Train them hard so some of them can do 200 stroke.
It looks like, this year, Cal gained an edge in the stroke events. For example, four kids from Cal scored in the 200 IM and 100 breast; three Cal swimmers scored in the 200 breast, 100 back and the 100 and 200 fly.

It's been said that, in Div. III, the team that owned the 200 free was best positioned to win the national meet. But this year in Div. I - and maybe Div. III - you couldn't win with a one-dimensional team that skewed toward either sprint free or 200 free:

Cal out-scored Texas in the meet, 535-491. It had a narrow advantage in the 50 free, 21-20 points, and won the 200 free relay. But Texas won the 200 free (20-12), and beat Cal in the 400 free relay and the 800 free relay (6:15.55 for Texas to Cal’s 6:15.70).

Meanwhile, in Div. III, the winning team dominated, among other events, backstroke and diving - but not the sprint free.

The sprints were won by the second-place team: Kenyon's men set Div. III records in the 200 and 400 free relays, won the 200 medley, placed first and second in the 50 free and out-scored meet-winning Denison in the 100 free by 76 to 11 (plenty of sprint records without tech suits!).

The 200 free, however, belonged to Denison, which won the 800 free relay (6:30.40, a Div. III record, with Kenyon at 6:31.78) and placed three kids in the top eight in the 200 free (a Kenyon sprinter, who went :19.38 in the 50, led the 200 at the 150-yard mark but slipped into third place behind a rare first-place tie):


Name Year School Prelims Finals Points
================================================== =======================
=== Championship Final ===

1 Degayner, Jordan SR COLORADO COLL...1:38.70 1:37.51 18.5
23.02 47.55 (24.53) 1:12.55 (25.00) 1:37.51 (24.96)
1 Harp, Tyler SR U REDLANDS...........1:37.69 1:37.51 18.5
22.59 47.07 (24.48) 1:12.16 (25.09) 1:37.51 (25.35)
3 Turk, Zachary SR KENYON.............1:38.90 1:37.66 16
21.47 45.75 (24.28)1:11.14 (25.39) 1:37.66 (26.52)
4 Chabot, Sean SO DENISON.............1:38.16 1:37.72 15
22.98 47.72 (24.74)1:12.54 (24.82) 1:37.72 (25.18)
5 Maciel, Carlos SO DENISON...........1:38.91 1:39.26 14
23.52 49.34 (25.82)1:14.20 (24.86) 1:39.26 (25.06)
6 Vieth, Thomas JR WILLIAMS............1:38.81 1:39.44 13
23.59 48.82 (25.23)1:14.12 (25.30) 1:39.44 (25.32)
7 Fronk, Spencer SO DENISON............1:39.04 1:39.57 12
23.33 48.64 (25.31)1:14.03 (25.39) 1:39.57 (25.54)

It seems that the winning combination - sprinters or stroke or mid-distance swimmers - can change from one meet to the next (and it all makes you wonder if tech suits ever really did have the effect that was advertised) ...

knelson
March 27th, 2012, 01:44 AM
I added more photos from Saturday night to my set on Flickr. Check 'em out!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/35423702@N08/sets/72157629658228317/