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sickfish
March 2nd, 2012, 04:21 PM
Is there a specific "rule" (unwritten or otherwise) regarding swimming non-freestyle in a freestyle event? I've entered myself in the 500 free at a meet tomorrow with the intent of doing a 400IM (there's no separate 400IM event at this meet). It's not going to be a "good" 400IM (in fact I'm sure it's going to be very, very bad), I don't need an official split time, I just want to check it off The List for my own personal check-off challenge before I get stuck having to do it long course.

[This is legal, right? As long as I do strokes and turns and everything legally, and complete the full distance?]

Do I:
a) Inform someone at the check-in for the 500
b) Inform some other official (whom?)
c) Tell the other swimmers in my heat so they don't freak out when one guy is suddenly going out way too fast for a seven-minute 500, and butterfly at that
d) Just keep my mouth shut and do it
e) Some combination of the above

aquageek
March 2nd, 2012, 04:32 PM
It is a freestyle event so the rules of freestyle apply and the time will count as a 500 free, unless you get out at the 400 in which case the swim won't count and you will be DQ'd.

I would tell everyone within ear and eye shot what you are going to do, especially those beside you and maybe even the head ref. It isn't required.

I think the only two poor forms of etiquette when doing this are:

1. Putting an unrealistic seed time and finishing well before or after your heat mates.
2. Getting out at the 400 simply because you can. Hit the wall at the 400 and then do an easy 100 to finish.

See you tomorrow at the meet I suspect. Best of luck.

Rob Copeland
March 2nd, 2012, 04:38 PM
There is no written rule. But I suggest you:
- inform the referee (the person standing next to the starter, blowing the whistle)
- mention it to the swimmers next to you in the heat
- make sure you swim the entire 500

Note: As long as you dont violate freestyle rules, you cant be DQed for stroke infractions. E.g. you can legally 1-hand fly/breast turns, etc.

fmracing
March 2nd, 2012, 04:45 PM
Distance swimmers might hate you afterwards though because it messes up their "pace". Whatever that is. :P

sickfish
March 2nd, 2012, 04:55 PM
It is a freestyle event so the rules of freestyle apply and the time will count as a 500 free, unless you get out at the 400 in which case the swim won't count and you will be DQ'd.


Ok cool, that's what I thought.



1. Putting an unrealistic seed time and finishing well before or after your heat mates.
2. Getting out at the 400 simply because you can. Hit the wall at the 400 and then do an easy 100 to finish.


I seeded myself with seven minutes... the more I think about it, the more pessimistic I get (yes, sprinter whining), but I think it's realistic enough. My last (and only) 200IM was just under a 2:30, so I doubled that, added some padding for even more abominable breaststroke and tacked on another 1:30 for the last 100. If I go under 7, I'll be satisfied, and if not, well, all the more reason to never do it again :)



As long as you dont violate freestyle rules, you cant be DQed for stroke infractions. E.g. you can legally 1-hand fly/breast turns, etc.


No worries there. I'm going to do everything as legally as possible.



Distance swimmers might hate you afterwards though because it messes up their "pace". Whatever that is. :P


Well, when they're lapping me while I'm swimming backstroke and breaststroke, they can feel really fast :)

Redbird Alum
March 2nd, 2012, 05:03 PM
Freestylers should not have an issue... they are the only stroke where the rules come down to:

Stay off the bottom
Touch the wall at each end

fmracing
March 2nd, 2012, 05:09 PM
Well, when they're lapping me while I'm swimming backstroke and breaststroke, they can feel really fast :)

Don't worry, I think they find ways to be mad at you whether you're significantly faster or slower than they are. ;)

aquageek
March 2nd, 2012, 05:11 PM
Freestylers should not have an issue... they are the only stroke where the rules come down to:

Stay off the bottom
Touch the wall at each end

It is perfectly legal to stand on the bottom of the pool in freestyle.

Standing on the bottom during a freestyle race shall not disqualify a swimmer, but a swimmer must not leave the pool, or walk, or spring from the bottom. Standing on the bottom during any other stroke shall result in disqualification. But, since it is freestyle, you can stop during any of the strokes you are doing and hang out and catch your breath.

sickfish
March 2nd, 2012, 05:17 PM
Standing on the bottom during a freestyle race shall not disqualify a swimmer, but a swimmer must not leave the pool, or walk, or spring from the bottom.


Sweet. Although, just knowing that I'm allowed to stop and stand around is going to drastically increase the likelihood of there being a guy stopped in the middle of the pool during one of the 500 heats at Greensboro tomorrow. I expect that the pool will be too deep for me to effectively stand, though :(

rxleakem
March 2nd, 2012, 05:24 PM
Thanks for the post, Sick. I am planning to do the same thing in April - never done one in a meet before. Swim fast! :)

ourswimmer
March 2nd, 2012, 05:39 PM
Freestylers should not have an issue... they are the only stroke where the rules come down to:

Stay off the bottom
Touch the wall at each end


Don't forget the 15m rule. I have seen someone DQ'd swimming breaststroke during a freestyle race because the swimmer's whole body went under (as the breaststroke rules permit) during the last 10m of a length.

You may not care, as long as the swim gives you the information you need. After all, even if you do not DQ it will go down in your USMS Permanent Record as a meh 500 rather than as a fantastic 400IM + 100EZ. I have a lot of 50s and 100s "free" in the USMS database that are really 50s and 100s backstroke. Just let others know, and no one will mind that you get what you want out of the swim.

sickfish
March 2nd, 2012, 05:48 PM
I have seen someone DQ'd swimming breaststroke during a freestyle race because the swimmer's whole body went under (as the breaststroke rules permit) during the last 10m of a length.


Yeah, my breaststroke is nowhere near good enough to do that. I'm not even going to attempt any of that newfangled underwater pull and kick stuff. Just push off, maybe glide until I need air (two seconds, tops), and start "swimming" "breaststroke".


fantastic 400IM

For me, just having finished it will be fantastic enough :D

pwb
March 2nd, 2012, 06:26 PM
Sickfish -- I'm doing essentially the same thing at a meet on March 11th, swimming the 400 IM in a 1000 free event because the meet organizers saw fit to add silly, illegitimate 25s* into the meet program instead of the 400 IM!

I'm doing what Rob suggests:

- inform the referee (the person standing next to the starter, blowing the whistle)
- mention it to the swimmers next to you in the heat
- make sure you swim the entire 500


*To show my support for the illegitimate events, though, I'll be racing my 25 fly and 25 free in the greatest swimsuit ever invented (http://blueseventy.com/products/detail/nero_comp/).

sickfish
March 2nd, 2012, 07:37 PM
Cool. I'll be informing the ref and my heatmates. Thanks everyone!

The Fortress
March 2nd, 2012, 07:58 PM
(yes, sprinter whining)

Just let's be clear that a real sprinter would never engage in this foolishness.:)

TRYM_Swimmer
March 2nd, 2012, 08:38 PM
Just let's be clear that a real sprinter would never engage in this foolishness.:)

Ah, Fort, we'll miss seeing you tomorrow! Coming down next month for the big one?

jaadams1
March 2nd, 2012, 08:43 PM
I've done the same thing as all Fly for 500s and a 1000. I've also done a 1000 Reverse IM as well.

Like others said: Tell your neighbors, and possibly the ref.

Also...no pulling on the lanelines...that's another DQable offense. :D

sickfish
March 2nd, 2012, 08:51 PM
Just let's be clear that a real sprinter would never engage in this foolishness.

Indeed. I am definitely conflicted. And two months of HIT does not a sprinter make. Someday! Complaining seems to come naturally, though :D

That Guy
March 2nd, 2012, 11:38 PM
so swimming the 800/1000 for a split during the 1500/1650 is awesome. Do that each year in each course and that's 6 events for the price of 3! But wait... what about the Checkoff Challenge? Ya need the 800/1000 as a standalone event amirite? So that's an awesome excuse to swim an 800 IM! :banana:

orca1946
March 3rd, 2012, 04:27 PM
O K- Let us know how this turns out!!??
Tell all & ref. what your intentions are & you should be ok.

The Fortress
March 3rd, 2012, 04:46 PM
Ah, Fort, we'll miss seeing you tomorrow! Coming down next month for the big one?

I would have come down but for a local meet this Sunday! I will definitely be there for Nationals in April. :)

sickfish
March 3rd, 2012, 06:23 PM
O K- Let us know how this turns out!!??


It went pretty well. I don't have my "split" yet, but now that I am an Expert, just having swum the best and most spectacular 400 IM that I will ever swim, I will definitively say that the 400 IM is a lot easier than the 200 fly. At least the way I do it :D

Nobody complained that I know of. The ref asked if I was doing it for fun or if I needed a split request. I said I was doing it for "fun". The one guy next to me (I was in lane 1) seemed cool with it too. I would expect any complaints to be coming from the spectators who had to witness my open backstroke turns and whatever it is that I do that technically counts as breaststroke. They may never un-see it. My sincerest apologies to them :)