PDA

View Full Version : I am doing the 200 fly for the first time. RUH OH!!!



Couroboros
March 21st, 2012, 12:15 AM
It's gonna be next weekend on April 1 at the 2012 Pacific Masters SCY Champs in Moraga, CA.

Please help me out! What do I do? What's the best strategy? My 100 fly PB is 1:04.2, but my in-season time is currently at 1:08.86.

I will also be doing the 200 back and breast. I haven't done the 200 breast in ages. The last time I did it (Jan '11) was absolutely horrible- I got a 3:17 when my 100 time at the same meet was 1:29. My 100 time has since gone down to 1:17. I just really, really want to go under 3 minutes in the event. What do you guys think will help?

As for the 200 back, my PB in that event is a 2:31.72 from a taper meet last July. My converted scy time from a meet close to that one is about a 2:47, but I'm getting down pretty close, in the 100 at least, to my taper time at this stroke. Last month, I went 1:09.6, which was just a second off my taper time of 1:08.6.

All suggestions, strategies, condolences... are welcome! If I don't survive, James Thornton gets to have all my posts.

jaadams1
March 21st, 2012, 01:08 AM
200 Fly:

Take it out relaxed, I'd say approx. 3-4 seconds slower than your 100 time, just to be conservative. From the start of the race, pick a breathing pattern and stick with it. This is one way I keep myself from thinking about other things (like ouchy). I try to maintain a 2 up, 1 down breathing cycle throughout the race. I find that if I go to breathing every stroke, my body position starts to get more and more vertical as the race goes on. That stroke with head down helps to maintain my hips up at the surface.


As for the 200 Breast and 200 Back:

Build them. I did this last December in SCM and actually had some fun doing it. I took them out EXTREMELY slow, and built each one. My 200 Breast actually ended up being my fastest of the season that way as well! Good enough for a TT. :)
And remember that in backstroke, it's very leg driven, so the legs will hurt for sure. I personally think the 200 Back is one of the hardest events out there when done correctly.

Good luck, and hopefully the 200 Fly is near the beginning of the event order for you. I usually get stuck doing it near the end of most meets. :bouncing:

sickfish
March 21st, 2012, 04:09 AM
I haven't tried the other 200s, but everyone told me to take out the first part of the 200 fly really really easy, and I think that's definitely the way to go. Going out five seconds slower on the first 100 will save you ten seconds of struggle on the back half. It's a long, rough race no matter what, but it's a lot more fun when you can still breathe on the last length.

couldbebetterfly
March 21st, 2012, 09:37 AM
200 Fly:

Take it out relaxed, I'd say approx. 3-4 seconds slower than your 100 time, just to be conservative. From the start of the race, pick a breathing pattern and stick with it. This is one way I keep myself from thinking about other things (like ouchy). I try to maintain a 2 up, 1 down breathing cycle throughout the race. I find that if I go to breathing every stroke, my body position starts to get more and more vertical as the race goes on. That stroke with head down helps to maintain my hips up at the surface.




Do as James says, not as he does ;)

Yes, take it easy - you can always push it harder on the second 100 if you feel like it. I also find that I need to breathe every 2 or 2 up 1 down to prevent vertical fly.

Good Luck! I too will be racing my very 1st SCY 200 fly on April 1. I did complete one in LCM last summer, very slowly :cane:

ande
March 21st, 2012, 10:48 AM
Is it a taper meet or train through?

SHAVE, you're a hairy dude

Correct splitting is critical

Tip 345 Correct Splitting


Tip 266 how to correctly split & incorrectly split a 200 (revisited)


Tip 74 How to Correctly Split the 200 Breast and 200 Fly


Tip 12 Correct Splitting


2 fly:

EASY SPEED SDKs but not many, maybe 4 or 5 off your dive & off your turns like 2 or 3

Swim your first 50 relaxed and smooth, maybe around 85% effort

Breathe every stroke

Save your legs, do small kicks
I have a sprint fly where I do 2 kicks per stroke and an easy speed fly where I do one kick per stroke
keep your hips high
your goal is for your last 3 50's to be very close
to do this you must do your 1st 50 correctly
you want to feel OK at the 100 & decent at the 150
on your last 50: do more SDKs & sprint


Wear a speedy suit

knelson
March 21st, 2012, 11:41 AM
From the start of the race, pick a breathing pattern and stick with it.

Totally agree with this advice. I also use a 2 up, 1 down pattern. You will want to start breathing every stroke, but if you're like most people breathing every stroke will just drop your hips and slow you down more. Also avoid breathing off the walls. This is another mental thing. You will want to, but that really kills your momentum.

orca1946
March 21st, 2012, 01:39 PM
As a flyer of note ,all the above is true. Have you done some 200 flys in practice? It feels much better the 2nd half if you take it easy the 1st 100.

That Guy
March 21st, 2012, 02:34 PM
Totally agree with this advice. I also use a 2 up, 1 down pattern. You will want to start breathing every stroke, but if you're like most people breathing every stroke will just drop your hips and slow you down more. Also avoid breathing off the walls. This is another mental thing. You will want to, but that really kills your momentum.
I do switch to breathing every stroke at some point in the race, but when I do that I also force myself to kick harder so that I don't go vertical. Totally agree about breathing off walls. Just don't.

no200fly
March 21st, 2012, 05:37 PM
All suggestions, strategies, condolences... are welcome!


My suggestion ... No 200 Fly

Allen Stark
March 21st, 2012, 06:16 PM
I'll be at the meet so see you there(I'm not going to Greensboro so it's my taper meet.) Since you are swimming the 200 BR also I have one word of advice for the 200 fly-"butterfrog."
You can start out fly but if you find you went out too fast or have a good BR kick switch to butterfrog,it beats going vertical.

rxleakem
March 21st, 2012, 10:12 PM
First of all - swim it fast, and have fun! :D

I did my first ever 200 fly a few weeks back, and I found this post in the butterfly lane very helpful. All of the helps above are great, too. It was hard for me to resist doing some one-arm fly around the 125 mark, but I made it through and I am sure you will, too. Having some friends there to cheer you on will make it easier. :cheerleader:

That Guy
March 21st, 2012, 10:25 PM
First of all - swim it fast, and have fun! :D

I did my first ever 200 fly a few weeks back, and I found this post in the butterfly lane (http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=255214&postcount=342) very helpful. All of the helps above are great, too. It was hard for me to resist doing some one-arm fly around the 125 mark, but I made it through and I am sure you will, too. Having some friends there to cheer you on will make it easier. :cheerleader:

I'm glad that post was helpful for you! Now in regards to dropping down to one-arm fly, I think a better mitigation for swimming with a piano on your back is to drop down to DPS fly (where you take 3 or more dolphin kicks per stroke) since it won't get you DQ'd. :angel:

Couroboros
March 22nd, 2012, 01:33 AM
Thanks for all the advice so far! My 200 fly is going to be my second event on April Fools' Day, with just the 100 free before it. I'm training through this meet, no taper.

What I'm taking away from it all:

-NO breathing off the wall. Just don't. That shouldn't be too tough, I don't do that on the 100 fly.
-take it out at about 85%, on that first 50
-establish breathing pattern, perhaps at least one up and one down to prevent verticality
-correct splitting is crucial
-ez speed SDKs off walls, don't take too many. This one might be hard for me to resist doing. I am notorious for staying underwater a long time off every wall in the 100 fly, though I've been working on surfacing earlier.

Allen Stark, I look forward to seeing you there! Good luck!

Couroboros
March 31st, 2012, 01:31 AM
First day of the meet tomorrow! Well, for me, at least. Technically, today was the first day. I'll be swimming the 200 breast, 100 IM, and 200 back. 200 fly is on Sunday!

philoswimmer
March 31st, 2012, 01:38 AM
First day of the meet tomorrow! Well, for me, at least. Technically, today was the first day. I'll be swimming the 200 breast, 100 IM, and 200 back. 200 fly is on Sunday!

I'm a little worried about the weather forecast...

Couroboros
March 31st, 2012, 06:23 PM
Hello! Hey, Philoswimmer, what are you swimming at the meet?

The rain was annoying for the first few hours, but then it went away just in time for my last race of the day, the 200 back. :) I managed to find a dry spot underneath the covered area in front of where the ribbons and results were posted.

Today, I did the 200 breast, 100 IM, and 200 back, in that order. I got to the pool early and did a 2550 yard warm-up. I got out, waited around in the wet and cold for a while, then with my heat approaching, I got back in the warm-up pool and swam a quick 450 yards.

So, my goal in the 200 yard breaststroke, an event that I've only done twice in the last two years, was to go under 3:00 for the first time. The first time I swam this event was almost two years ago for a taper meet, where my coach put me in it to snag an extra point or two in a consolation final. Back then, I went 3:09. I swam it a second time, mid-season, in January of last year. That was a really painful swim, where I went 3:17.

I'm happy to report that the third time is the charm... today, I went 2:52.26! My splits:

38.91
1:22.65 (43.74)
2:07.94 (45.29)
2:52.26 (44.32)

I could probably iron out these splits a little more even.

Second event was 100 IM, which I've never before done in SCY. I did it in SCM last year, in 1:22.46. I was really out of shape for that swim. My time today was 1:07.75. Splits: 31.63, 36.12.

My 200 back clocked in at 2:37.83, which is about 5.5 seconds off my taper time last July. Splits:

36.81
1:16.8 (39.99)
1:57.19 (40.39)
2:37.83 (40.64)

Tomorrow, I do the big one! 200 fly!

Allen Stark
March 31st, 2012, 06:40 PM
Hello! Hey, Philoswimmer, what are you swimming at the meet?

The rain was annoying for the first few hours, but then it went away just in time for my last race of the day, the 200 back. :) I managed to find a dry spot underneath the covered area in front of where the ribbons and results were posted.

Today, I did the 200 breast, 100 IM, and 200 back, in that order. I got to the pool early and did a 2550 yard warm-up. I got out, waited around in the wet and cold for a while, then with my heat approaching, I got back in the warm-up pool and swam a quick 450 yards.

So, my goal in the 200 yard breaststroke, an event that I've only done twice in the last two years, was to go under 3:00 for the first time. The first time I swam this event was almost two years ago for a taper meet, where my coach put me in it to snag an extra point or two in a consolation final. Back then, I went 3:09. I swam it a second time, mid-season, in January of last year. That was a really painful swim, where I went 3:17.

I'm happy to report that the third time is the charm... today, I went 2:52.26! My splits:

38.91
1:22.65 (43.74)
2:07.94 (45.29)
2:52.26 (44.32)

I could probably iron out these splits a little more even.

Second event was 100 IM, which I've never before done in SCY. I did it in SCM last year, in 1:22.46. I was really out of shape for that swim. My time today was 1:07.75. Splits: 31.63, 36.12.

My 200 back clocked in at 2:37.83, which is about 5.5 seconds off my taper time last July. Splits:

36.81
1:16.8 (39.99)
1:57.19 (40.39)
2:37.83 (40.64)

Tomorrow, I do the big one! 200 fly!
Good job!:applaud::applaud:
Sorry I didn't see you,but I found a small dry spot and only ventured out to swim my race and then hustled back to the hotel for a long hot bath.Maybe tomorrow ,if it gets warm enough for me to stick my head out(the forecast isn't promising since it estimates the 9 AM temp to be 45-feels like 39 ,ouch!)

ElaineK
March 31st, 2012, 06:54 PM
Good luck to all of you! :cheerleader:

philoswimmer
March 31st, 2012, 07:25 PM
I did 200 breast, 100 IM, 50 fly, plus the 400 free relay. I got PBs in 200Br and 100 IM; 50 fly was :afraid:. (I used to be a flyer, but I've been recreating myself as a breaststroker since I seem to have much more success at that).

I'm nowhere near as good as you guys, but here goes: 3:17.26 for 200 Br (in 2011 I was 3:19.2 and in 2010 I was 3:18.82, so while I still think I could do much better, I'm happy with the improvement). Splits were: 45.14 51.18 51.81 49.13. So, not too great for splitting, right? I think I should have picked it up in the 3rd 50 a bit more. Tomorrow I am supposed to swim 50 breast and 100 breast, so that should give me some more benchmarks to judge the 200 by.

100 IM beat my time from two years ago (didn't swim it last year) by about 1.4 secs, so again, I am happy.

50 fly: just no gas left in the tank after freezing all day plus doing the other events. And I think my timing is off. Every now and then it feels good in practice, but not today. I was probably too high out of the water, too.

So, tomorrow, in addition to 50 br and 100 br, I am supposed to do 1000 free (don't ask me why) and two relays. There will undoubtedly be some scratching! (Particularly hoping for a scratch in the 400 MR -- I don't think I want to do *that* much breaststroke, and of course it comes right after the 100 br).

Good luck to both of you!!! :cheerleader:

Couroboros
March 31st, 2012, 08:25 PM
Swim it all! If you want, find a guy wearing a blue swim parka sitting or standing near the results and I'll cheer you on your breaststroke.

Couroboros
April 1st, 2012, 06:10 PM
All over!

Today's weather was slightly better than yesterday's. There was not a cloud in the sky, so thankfully no rain, but it was way colder.

Today, I did the 100 free, 200 fly, 50 free, and 100 breast. I did a 1700 yard warm-up, then got out and waited for my heat of the 100 free. I swam it in 57.66, which is okay, I guess. It was slightly faster than a week ago (by slightly I mean .14 milliseconds). My split was 27.78.

The 50 free was much better. I went 25.07, and I would've probably gone under 25. I started my turn too early, otherwise I probably would've been at least 24.9 something. It's still a 22 millisecond drop from my in-season best, so I'm cool with it.

100 breast was 1:18, a hair faster than I did it in February. It was my last race, and I wanted to get home, so I didn't wait around for the split.

So. The whole reason I started this thread. The 200 yard butterfly.

200 yard butterfly.

200 yard butterfly is Love At First Sight. This is the event swimmers fear so much? I loved it! I went 2:44.33. I didn't die or anything, no piano on my back. My Splits:

34.41
1:15.36 (40.95)
2:00.26 (44.90)
2:44.33 (44.07)

I want to do it again asap. I was certainly hesitant on the second 100, because I wasn't sure of how much I could put the pedal to the metal at different points of the race. Come to think of it, I was hesitant on the first 100, too. I can probably get this race in the 2:30s very easily. *knock on wood* Today, I swam the race like I was in a minefield. Looking at the splits, my first 100 was faster than the first 100 of my 200 back yesterday.

In conclusion, I think the 200 fly will become one of my staples.

ElaineK
April 1st, 2012, 06:22 PM
Congratulations! It sounds like you had a terrific meet! :applaud:

Allen Stark
April 1st, 2012, 06:43 PM
Great ,fantastic:banana::banana:.That is a very good time for a first 200 fly.Cold was right.I froze on the way from the warmups to the lockers.I was is the 50 BR (second event after the 100 Free.I stayed bundled up until 1 heat before mine,then I wore my boots and parka to the blocks and didn't take them off til the long whistle.Something worked as I went faster than last year at Mesa in much better conditions(31.14 down from 31.27.)Sorry to deflect a minute to crow,your 200 Fly was great :cheerleader:.

scyfreestyler
April 1st, 2012, 07:19 PM
I don't know that I've ever heard somebody speak so enthusiastically about the 200 fly before. Nice swimming! Are you swimming the Quicksilver Meet later this month?

It was a bit cold this morning which on its own isn't too bad, but the wind that came along with it...

Nice meeting you today, Allen. I hope the rest of your meet went as well as your 50 BR!

philoswimmer
April 1st, 2012, 07:42 PM
Well done, everyone, and sorry I didn't bump into any of you! I looked, but apparently in the wrong places.

I was a model of consistency today, scoring within hundreths of what I did last year. I guess that is better than doing worse!

I am glad (?) to hear you say that you were cold -- good to know it wasn't just me. Everyone around me kept saying how much nicer it was today. Yeah, it was nice to have it be sunny and not get rained on, but I still froze my :mooning:off. I've done this meet other years where it was beastly hot and we were all huddled in the shade. You never know what you're going to get in CA.

Good tip about the Quicksilver meet... I hadn't heard about that one. Maybe I'll see if I can make that.

couldbebetterfly
April 1st, 2012, 10:09 PM
:applaud: Nice 200 fly!

rxleakem
April 1st, 2012, 10:55 PM
Great job! I am planning to swim it again, too, just not soon. :bouncing:

jswim
April 1st, 2012, 11:56 PM
Congrats!! Nicely done! :applaud::cheerleader:

jaadams1
April 2nd, 2012, 01:10 AM
200 yard butterfly.

200 yard butterfly is Love At First Sight. This is the event swimmers fear so much? I loved it! I went 2:44.33. I didn't die or anything, no piano on my back. My Splits:

34.41
1:15.36 (40.95)
2:00.26 (44.90)
2:44.33 (44.07)

I want to do it again asap. I was certainly hesitant on the second 100, because I wasn't sure of how much I could put the pedal to the metal at different points of the race. Come to think of it, I was hesitant on the first 100, too. I can probably get this race in the 2:30s very easily. *knock on wood* Today, I swam the race like I was in a minefield. Looking at the splits, my first 100 was faster than the first 100 of my 200 back yesterday.

In conclusion, I think the 200 fly will become one of my staples.

Nice job!! Now just start ramping up the effort a bit until you find your breaking point. Then you just have to keep practicing and trying different techniques to get past that breaking point. Yes, it will hurt, but when you're done and you've swum fast, it feels great!!
Lots of people think I'm crazy for doing as many 200 Fly's (and 500 Flys) as I do, but I've really enjoyed them. I even do them occasionally in the 200 Free event to race the freestylers. :applaud:

Congratulations on your success. And keep the good times rolling!