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View Full Version : In your first workout after a multi-day meet...



philoswimmer
April 3rd, 2012, 05:12 PM
.... you feel like ____________________ (fill in the blank).

Jazz Hands
April 3rd, 2012, 05:38 PM
Dancing.

ElaineK
April 3rd, 2012, 05:50 PM
taking a nice, slowww, recovery swim. :agree:

Celestial
April 3rd, 2012, 05:50 PM
Relays!
Day 2, however, I feel like C***!

pwb
April 3rd, 2012, 06:49 PM
complete dog-crap, particularly so because I love to end a multi-day meet by NOT warming down ... so I can enjoy the lovely lactic acid burn for a few more days ;)

jaadams1
April 3rd, 2012, 07:07 PM
complete dog-crap, particularly so because I love to end a multi-day meet by NOT warming down ... so I can enjoy the lovely lactic acid burn for a few more days ;)

I always say "cool down on Monday morning". I still haven't swam since this last weekend's meet, so it'll be fun whenever that may be.

That Guy
April 3rd, 2012, 08:11 PM
if I really hit my taper, then I will still feel like racing after the meet. Once I go fully into thorobred mode (which, regrettably, doesn't always happen when I taper) it's actually difficult to get back into donkey mode.

couldbebetterfly
April 3rd, 2012, 08:39 PM
a slug, or this...
complete dog-crap, particularly so because I love to end a multi-day meet by NOT warming down ... so I can enjoy the lovely lactic acid burn for a few more days ;)

swimshark
April 3rd, 2012, 08:43 PM
a slug, or this...

I was going to say slug as well. But I always go the day after to work out the kinks.

ddskier63
April 4th, 2012, 12:39 AM
:troll_with_sign::cane:

philoswimmer
April 4th, 2012, 01:39 AM
Loving this! Seems like most of us react the same way.:notworking:

knelson
April 4th, 2012, 10:04 AM
if I really hit my taper, then I will still feel like racing after the meet.

I agree. Sometimes you are still pumped up and just can't seem to swim slow even with the fatigue. Give it a couple days, though, and you always relearn how to swim slow.

gigi
April 4th, 2012, 02:15 PM
putting on a flower-petal-covered bathing cap and swimming super slow and floppy.

jim thornton
April 4th, 2012, 02:49 PM
I found myself wondering the other day if anyone has ever tried "non-stop meet-simulated-style training"?

The idea would be to take your typical taper meet, say, a 3-4 day thing where you swim a couple events all out each day plus relays and warm up and cool down.

You do this, say, from Thursday to Sunday, then drive home.

On Monday, you repeat the exact same 3-4 day sequence, with the exact same excruciating effort interspersed with warm up and cool down.

This would bring you to Thursday or Friday (depending on whether you are on the 3-day or 4-day taper meet schedule.)

You begin the meet over again, no rest.

And so on throughout the entire next four months.

The benefits of such training would be:

* You are swimming only the events that really mean much too you, and you are practicing these events, over and over again, at full meet speed/effort

* The other swimming you are doing is warm up and cool down, where presumably you can throw in some drills and kicking, etc. if you want to.

* Fatiguing and difficult as this might prove to sustain, you will almost certainly derive the Nietzscheian strengthening promised to those who avoid being killed in the process.

The drawbacks of such training would be:

* Monotony

* Possible orthopedic catastrophe

* Inability to lollygag around in the hot tub and/or swimming desultory garbage yards for the next few months out of a sense of entitlement and putative need for rest.

* The lack of a nonswimming life.

One reason why I have been wondering about this approach to training is that I have been, in a modified way, living it out.

I went to the Albatross meet on March 17th, swimming the 100, 200, 400 SCM freestyles plus 2 x 50 SCM freestyles in relays

This past weekend, March 31-April 1, I swam our Y championships at Clarion U.--the 1000, 500, 200, 100, 50, and 25 freestyles, and a 25 fly.

On April 10th, I go to Florida where I will try to stay even with Ryan Lochte for 3 or 4 feet of what will be a cool down for him, and all out sprint for me.

From April 13-15th, I will swim the 1000, 500, 200, 100, 50 freestyles and bunch of relays at Colony Zones.

Then, I will be swimming at Nationals April 27-29th.

Granted, these meet experiences include 11-12 days between the end of one and the start of the next (leaving out the Lochte thrashing), which is a lot more "recovery" than my proposed "non-stop meet-simulated-style training" allows.

But I am thinking that by the end of Nationals, I will have habituated my body a bit towards this new approach, at which point I will be able to begin whittling down the "regular swimming practice" interludes from 11-12 days down to, say, 5-7 days, then after a month, 2-3 days, then finally, all meet training, no days off, all the time.

Who's with me?

smontanaro
April 4th, 2012, 03:02 PM
On April 10th, I go to Florida where I will try to stay even with Ryan Lochte for 3 or 4 feet of what will be a cool down for him, and all out sprint for me.

Now wait just a gosh darn minute there, Jimbo... You said you were going to interview Mr. Lochte :bow:, not try some sort of Petros Papadakis vs. Ous Mellouli - 50m Sprint - YouTube (which, as you can see, has already been done). We should have gotten some input on the race you intend to challenge him to, not just the questions you plan to ask him.

Skip

jim thornton
April 4th, 2012, 03:28 PM
Now wait just a gosh darn minute there, Jimbo... You said you were going to interview Mr. Lochte :bow:, not try some sort of Petros Papadakis vs. Ous Mellouli - 50m Sprint - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTyXLs0ObXA) (which, as you can see, has already been done). We should have gotten some input on the race you intend to challenge him to, not just the questions you plan to ask him.

Skip


Skip, an Olympiad ago, I got to go down and swim with/interview Dara Torres. Part of our practice was 10 x 100 LCM warm up on 1:45 or 2:00. I wanted to stay up with Dara so I could watch her stroke, but she would quickly outdistance me. Not that this was bad. I could watch her turns pretty well this way. Oh, and for some of them, she did up free and back back.

So anyhow, I decided my best chance would arrive on the 9th 100. I knew she would be expecting me to swim fast on the last one. I figured I might have lulled her into complacency, however, by the 9th, when Save-it-up-Sallies like me tend to loaf completely.

I also got her breathing pattern down by then and knew that on the final length, she would be breathing away from my lane adjacent to hers.

Oh, I should add at this point that she NEVER knew I was intending to race her. There was nothing said officially or unofficially.

So, on the 9th x 100 warm up 100, she took her predictable lead, and I got to watch her push off the wall and head back in my direction. I was sure she was utterly complacent at this point, no hint whatsoever of my plan.

As soon as she went by, I sprinted to the wall and did my turn and began to stalk my way up to where I was only a body length behind her, but hiding out in her blind side. I knew if she even sensed I was going to try to beat her to the wall, that she would increase her speed and make quick work of your humble though somewhat duplictous schemer of a correspondent.

With about 15 meters to go, I picked up the pace.

With 8 meters to go, I began to sprint.

I touched her out, though I doubt to this day she knows because as soon as she touched the wall, she lifted her head towards the lane away from mine and began talking to another swimmer.

Anyhow, that's my strategy in a nutshell for beating an Olympic great.

The No. 1 Pointer by far: they must have no idea whatsoever you are racing them. It is not quickness but stealth that wins these duels!

--Jim, by some measures Olympic Silver Medalist in the Women's 50 LCM Freestyle

philoswimmer
April 4th, 2012, 03:39 PM
I found myself wondering the other day if anyone has ever tried "non-stop meet-simulated-style training"?


Am I crazy for thinking this isn't totally crazy? If so many of us are sore, wiped out, etc., from multi-day meets, then perhaps we're not training for them right.

philoswimmer
April 4th, 2012, 03:45 PM
putting on a flower-petal-covered bathing cap and swimming super slow and floppy.

Love this!! :joker:

The Fortress
April 4th, 2012, 03:54 PM
Am I crazy for thinking this isn't totally crazy? If so many of us are sore, wiped out, etc., from multi-day meets, then perhaps we're not training for them right.

That's basically what Jazz Hands and Speedo do now -- only race simulation training. I couldn't do that every single day without breaking down. Though I will do back to back AFAP speed workouts very week. It's still hard to simulate the mix of adrenaline and real racing at meets in practice. But, yeah, doh, you should practice racing in practice!

I feel like utter crap after multi-day meets. It's not just racing fatigue and muscle soreness; it's the adrenaline and the lack of good sleep that contribute. But I sometimes still swim well during my first workout.

Celestial
April 4th, 2012, 06:43 PM
I found myself wondering the other day if anyone has ever tried "non-stop meet-simulated-style training"?

The idea would be to take your typical taper meet, say, a 3-4 day thing where you swim a couple events all out each day plus relays and warm up and cool down.

You do this, say, from Thursday to Sunday, then drive home.

On Monday, you repeat the exact same 3-4 day sequence, with the exact same excruciating effort interspersed with warm up and cool down.

This would bring you to Thursday or Friday (depending on whether you are on the 3-day or 4-day taper meet schedule.)

You begin the meet over again, no rest.

And so on throughout the entire next four months.

Isn't this sort of what the High School & College schedules are like? Granted they don't have a multi-day meet every week, but they certainly do MANY of the weeks. My sons HS schedule his last year included at LEAST one meet a week, and at least one of those was multi-day. Fortunately he graduated.

That Guy
April 4th, 2012, 08:45 PM
That's basically what Jazz Hands and Speedo do now -- only race simulation training. I couldn't do that every single day without breaking down. Though I will do back to back AFAP speed workouts very week. It's still hard to simulate the mix of adrenaline and real racing at meets in practice. But, yeah, doh, you should practice racing in practice!

I feel like utter crap after multi-day meets. It's not just racing fatigue and muscle soreness; it's the adrenaline and the lack of good sleep that contribute. But I sometimes still swim well during my first workout.

I rehearse events in practice prior to competitions. For the longest events, rehearsing them on the same day of the week as your race is helpful. Case in point, I've got a 1650 coming up on the 15th, so I'm going to rehearse it on the 8th. I've never rehearsed race-day combinations of events in the same practice but this thread has me considering it.

jim thornton
April 4th, 2012, 08:47 PM
Isn't this sort of what the High School & College schedules are like? Granted they don't have a multi-day meet every week, but they certainly do MANY of the weeks. My sons HS schedule his last year included at LEAST one meet a week, and at least one of those was multi-day. Fortunately he graduated.

Yeah, I guess I remember doing a lot of dual meets during the season in high school, too.

We have a Y league around here that has meets every 2 weeks from September to March, then a championship meet in late March/early April.

I try to go to as many as I can easily drive to--they are great "sprint" practices, and a good place to test out different race strategies, gauge what kind of shape you are in, etc.

When Leslie made the point that Jazz and Speedo train like I was suggesting now, I think she's probably right. However, to my knowledge, Jazz rarely if ever goes further than a 50, though Speedo will swim 200s.

I was suggesting something along last weekend's shedule:

1650 warm up (1000; 8 x 50 on :50 accelerate second 25; 4 x 50 sprint 25/ez 25; easy 50)

1000 for time

break

650 warm up

100 all out

300 loosening swim

50 all out for time

25 fly all out for time

250 cool down
---------------------
next day:
1650 warm up(1000; 8 x 50 on :50 accelerate second 25; 4 x 50 sprint 25/ez 25; easy 50)

500 for time

break

650 warm up

25 free for time

300 loosening swim

200 all out

250 cool down

----------------------------

repeat the two above practices every other day for the next six months!

jim thornton
April 4th, 2012, 08:56 PM
I rehearse events in practice prior to competitions. For the longest events, rehearsing them on the same day of the week as your race is helpful. Case in point, I've got a 1650 coming up on the 15th, so I'm going to rehearse it on the 8th. I've never rehearsed race-day combinations of events in the same practice but this thread has me considering it.

By rehearsing, do you mean swimming them as hard as you plan to swim in the meet? Or more of a leisurely "swim through"--like a pro golfer checking out a new course?

That Guy
April 4th, 2012, 09:27 PM
By rehearsing, do you mean swimming them as hard as you plan to swim in the meet? Or more of a leisurely "swim through"--like a pro golfer checking out a new course?

Swim all out, but under practice conditions. Practice suit, no cap, starting from a pushoff, warm shallow pool, no one to race against.

jaadams1
April 4th, 2012, 10:28 PM
I rehearse events in practice prior to competitions. For the longest events, rehearsing them on the same day of the week as your race is helpful. Case in point, I've got a 1650 coming up on the 15th, so I'm going to rehearse it on the 8th. I've never rehearsed race-day combinations of events in the same practice but this thread has me considering it.

I did this today (http://www.usms.org/forums/blog.php?b=21649)(in a way).

I did a 500 Pull, Fast 400 IM (4:54), 300 Pull, Fast 200 Fly (2:19), Fast 100 Free (1:00), all on somewhat extended, but short rest.

It wasn't meant to be a race condition type swim, or prep for one. Just a set focusing on speed in my best two events. From a push of course, in the shallow YMCA 84 degree water. I do like the pool...it's where I swam for most of my age group career for practices.