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E=H2O
April 5th, 2012, 09:02 PM
I do not mean this as a heartless criticism of triathletes. I actually enjoy the sport. But many of them start doing triathlons with almost no knowledge or experience in swimming. Here are a couple of choice comments to the thread I linked below. Thank goodness I knew how to ride a bike and run before I started doing tris - but not well. Give them credit for taking it on, but I do think they should learn to swim before entering one.

"The swim is short ( 150 yards ), and I can make it..not without stopping a couple of times at the end of the pool."

"A lot of pool sprints are so newbie friendly that they let you get through the water any way you can. I have seen people water walk the 300 meters in a pool swim in my area."

"My wife did an indoor tri a few months ago and I think 1/4 of the people walked the swim."

I recommended that the person do breaststroke.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=433785&posts=7&start=1

ChrisM
April 6th, 2012, 12:38 AM
I guess some triathletes need to learn how to swim, not sure there's anything to be said for "triathletes" as a ... species? entire group? It seems that most triathletes' weakness is the swim. I think they think to themselves, "I grew up swimming in a pool, etc" and figure it can't be that hard. Add to that swimming in a crowd and a restrictive wetsuit, and it turns into something else entirely

And when something goes wrong in the water, the danger is compounded given the environment.

Attempting a tri without knowing how to swim is just stupid. At least they are doing a pool tri and not an OW swim tri. You may not have seen the threads on this issue, but there are on occasion the same types of posts where the race is in open water. Except for a few yahoos, the general consensus advice is always sound and forceful - learn how to swim first.

I've done tris for the last 7 years. There is on occasion the person that is not capable of completing the distance, and every race gets people pulled from the water for one reason or another. Same is true for many OW swims I've done. In my experience the vast majority of triathletes, however, are competent swimmers, some of them are quite fast.

E=H2O
April 6th, 2012, 12:41 AM
I just think when 1/4 of the field walks the swim, then we enter into a whole different discussion.

ChrisM
April 6th, 2012, 12:50 AM
Meh. Never mind.

E=H2O
April 6th, 2012, 02:17 AM
So how would the tri community (which I still consider myself be a part of) react to someone who said the same about the bike leg - and not because they were 100 miles into the IM bike leg. People walking the bike leg . . . able to cycle 400 yards before they either got off or fell off . . . You get the picture. I think universally it would be suggested they learn how to ride before they enter a tri. Just saying.

samo
April 6th, 2012, 12:27 PM
We see people walking the bike leg all the time in tris and duathlons. I mean, well, it is up hills, but still. :)

I think the biggest hurdle for triathletes and swimming (and why most triathletes list swimming as their weakest sport) is pool access. Running is free. Biking is almost free, but swimming costs every month for most age groupers. It takes a lot of dedication to the sport to pay for pool time. :/ Then there is the vicious cycle of not being any good because of lack of practice and not having a pleasant time in the pool because of not having a good technique because of lack of pool time... so they just don't feel excited about the pool workouts...

darrinlajoie
April 6th, 2012, 03:09 PM
Per Wikipedia an IM is 2.4-mi swim, 112-mi bike, 26.2-mi run in that order. Start at 7am, cut-off for swim at 9:20am, cut-off for bike at 5:50pm, cut-off for run at midnight.

My skill level would be more:
- 2.4-mi swim
- 112-yard bike (walking your bike is permitted and even encouraged)
- 26.2-yard run (well, not really run like you see on the jogging trail, more like it's raining and I'm trying to find my car, but faster than a walk).

The same IM cut-offs would be enforced as well.

Kevin in MD
April 6th, 2012, 04:20 PM
As background, I have been coaching swimming for triathletes for ten years now. Triathlon swim classes, well attended and people love them. I am quite proud of the fact that we have refined our technique to the point where, except for one case, we are taking brand new swimmers from the ability to swim a single 25 only, to swimming a continuous mile, in 5 weeks. We do this regularly, there has only been one exception.

So that's my background in this world, pretty extensive.

I think that the "You can do it!" can be and IS taken too far in certain situations. However, with the proper follow up "You can do it!" is almost certainly the right answer. So, if the question is from a couch potato who wants to do a triathlon in 5 weeks, let's say pool swim in this case, then the answer is almost certainly yes you can. But the follow up needs to be that you need to follow up with a training plan (many free ones out there) and get with an adult learn to swim expert. Unfortunately tyhere are not many of those around, but they exist.


On the other hand I will say something that I do like about the tri community is that most of the people are coming to it as adults and are doing it BECAUSE of the challenge. They know they won't necessarily be good at it yet aren't afraid to go out there and do it. Or to go out there and suck :-)

This is in contrast to a good chunk of swimmers on my own squad who won't go to a meet, or won't do this event or that event because they don't think they will do well at it or because it's hard. It' is a totally different mindset actually. I think the unfortunate part is that the swimmers might be missing out on some fun and rewarding experiences.

E=H2O
April 6th, 2012, 04:35 PM
We see people walking the bike leg all the time in tris and duathlons. I mean, well, it is up hills, but still. :)

I think the biggest hurdle for triathletes and swimming (and why most triathletes list swimming as their weakest sport) is pool access. Running is free. Biking is almost free, but swimming costs every month for most age groupers. It takes a lot of dedication to the sport to pay for pool time. :/ Then there is the vicious cycle of not being any good because of lack of practice and not having a pleasant time in the pool because of not having a good technique because of lack of pool time... so they just don't feel excited about the pool workouts...

I agree. These are all real obstacles. I am more sensitive to the issue of being able to get the pool when there is lap swimming (or getting to a pool at all for some). At heart I am a swimmer because I never stopped being a kid who loves to be in the water. That has been my greatest strength in becoming a good swimmer. As for the money issue, it can be a real problem for some, but for others they would rather spend it on a new bike.

E=H2O
April 6th, 2012, 04:39 PM
As background, I have been coaching swimming for triathletes for ten years now. Triathlon swim classes, well attended and people love them. I am quite proud of the fact that we have refined our technique to the point where, except for one case, we are taking brand new swimmers from the ability to swim a single 25 only, to swimming a continuous mile, in 5 weeks. We do this regularly, there has only been one exception.

So that's my background in this world, pretty extensive.

I think that the "You can do it!" can be and IS taken too far in certain situations. However, with the proper follow up "You can do it!" is almost certainly the right answer. So, if the question is from a couch potato who wants to do a triathlon in 5 weeks, let's say pool swim in this case, then the answer is almost certainly yes you can. But the follow up needs to be that you need to follow up with a training plan (many free ones out there) and get with an adult learn to swim expert. Unfortunately tyhere are not many of those around, but they exist.


On the other hand I will say something that I do like about the tri community is that most of the people are coming to it as adults and are doing it BECAUSE of the challenge. They know they won't necessarily be good at it yet aren't afraid to go out there and do it. Or to go out there and suck :-)

This is in contrast to a good chunk of swimmers on my own squad who won't go to a meet, or won't do this event or that event because they don't think they will do well at it or because it's hard. It' is a totally different mindset actually. I think the unfortunate part is that the swimmers might be missing out on some fun and rewarding experiences.

You left out that triathlons have my favorite sport to race, and when it is over I go for a nice bike ride and a little jog. Here in Oregon many times this is followed up with a couple of brews at the event. And you get to do it outside! How can you not like this sport.

Betsy
April 6th, 2012, 05:11 PM
There a number of triathletes who come to my workouts. For the most part, they buy into my approach: technique and pacing.
The best comments that I hear are that when they finish the swim they are not too tired for the rest of the race. I attribute that to better technique and pacing.
I offer options in practice but all have learned to do some non-free. Most can relate to the similarity of drills for back and free.
The word gets around that swim training with a group of swimmers really works.

slow
April 6th, 2012, 06:53 PM
I actually have had some triathletes ask me this question. They are thinking about technique or quick ways to cut their times but I always suggest learning survival mechanisms for when they get into trouble. Some protested that they wouldn't get into trouble, and I said that everyone eventually gets into trouble with each part of swim/bike/run -- be it a live event or just practice. But with bike/run, they only have to stop and put both feet on the ground and breathe and wait for the trouble to pass. Not so in the water. With swimming, they need to be sure of their equipment and practice some safety drills. Looking around for the nearest kayak is not much of a survival plan.

Haha, but I'm not a total jerk either -- I usually give them some pointers about either their pull or their body positioning.

E=H2O
April 6th, 2012, 07:04 PM
Some protested that they wouldn't get into trouble, and I said that everyone eventually gets into trouble with each part of swim/bike/run -- be it a live event or just practice.

I have been swimming in open water nearly 45 years and there has never been a time when I went in the water before going over a mental checklist of what I would do if things went wrong. The best always do this. It could be boats or jet skis, high surf, strong currents, just feeling bad or being surrounded by a lot of yahoos (happens more frequently than I'd like when body surfing sizable waves). You're simply foolish if you don't, and that is another thing I consider before I get in.

geog
April 7th, 2012, 12:02 AM
Per Wikipedia an IM is 2.4-mi swim, 112-mi bike, 26.2-mi run in that order. Start at 7am, cut-off for swim at 9:20am, cut-off for bike at 5:50pm, cut-off for run at midnight. <snip>

if the swim + T1 takes 1.5 hours, then that leaves about 9.5 hours for the bike, which requires at least a 12 mph bike speed.

orca1946
April 7th, 2012, 12:58 AM
I would offer ANYONE to not start out with an Ironman tri !!!!!
Enter shorter races to get a feel for you & the distances!

E=H2O
April 7th, 2012, 01:16 AM
I would offer ANYONE to not start out with an Ironman tri !!!!!
Enter shorter races to get a feel for you & the distances!

I had my most fun when I did sprints. You can have a great time racing even if your training time is limited by work, family or injury. I found one with a long swim to play on my strength.

Fresnoid
April 7th, 2012, 10:14 AM
Triathletes should learn to survive the swim, but you can't blame them for regarding that leg as being trivial. Most triathlons are completely biased against swimming. Far more time is spent on the other two legs.

Take a look at last years' IM splits. The rough average for the top ten finishers was 52 minutes for the swim, 4:30 for the bike, 2:45 for the run = around 8:07 (ignoring the transitions)

That means 55.4% of their time was on the bike, 33.9% was the run, but the swim was only 10.7%.

http://ironman.com/assets/files/results/worldchampionship/2011.htm

E=H2O
April 7th, 2012, 12:04 PM
Triathletes should learn to survive the swim, but you can't blame them for regarding that leg as being trivial. Most triathlons are completely biased against swimming. Far more time is spent on the other two legs.

Take a look at last years' IM splits. The rough average for the top ten finishers was 52 minutes for the swim, 4:30 for the bike, 2:45 for the run = around 8:07 (ignoring the transitions)

That means 55.4% of their time was on the bike, 33.9% was the run, but the swim was only 10.7%.

http://ironman.com/assets/files/results/worldchampionship/2011.htm

However on the other hand, they (should) spend more than 11% of their training time to swimming.

evmo
April 7th, 2012, 05:15 PM
Another issue to consider in apportioning training time is that running & cycling tend to respond more to volume (compared to swimming), and swimming tends to respond more to technique work (compared to running & biking).

Sure, to be a FOP swimmer you'll need to do some volume... but for the average age-grouper it's probably a rational choice to spend relatively little time on swimming. At the same time, I'd imagine the average age-grouper would benefit by spending what little time they do spend swimming primarily on technique work.

The reason most triathletes are sh**ty swimmers is because most triathletes have sh**ty technique, not that they don't do enough laps.

aquageek
April 7th, 2012, 08:32 PM
ChrisM is one of the good swimers to post on beginnertriathlete.com. Most of the swim advice on that forum is horrifying. However, use of the term "competent " is entirely dependent in the forum.

Trail.dog1
April 8th, 2012, 12:53 PM
How much do triathletes need to learn about swimming? Ones goals in a triathlon are most relevent. If someone is trying to complete the entire distance of the event, "survival" - or competence or adequacy - is all that is required of their swimming ability. Ditto the bike and the run. If you walk through a pool or float on your back, so be it. I dont see anything wrong with this. During my first triathlon I swam with my head above water the whole time - I believe they call that 'tarzanning'. Ones own subjective measure is the only important issue when it comes to completion of amatuer atheltic events - Am I happy with my performance today?

Now, if one is trying to win a triathlon, their swim has to be pretty darn good. There is a saying - one cannot win a triathlon during the swim leg, but one can certainly lose the race during the swim leg.

As a bit of a side note, it seems like pure swimmers give triathletes a lot of grief. Cyclists do this too (obviously not every swimmer/cyclist does this). I never really understood it. Haters gonna hate, I guess. :)

E=H2O
April 8th, 2012, 01:32 PM
Ones goals in a triathlon are most relevent. If someone is trying to complete the entire distance of the event, "survival" - or competence or adequacy - is all that is required of their swimming ability. . . . . If you walk through a pool . . . so be it.

The last time I checked the sport is SWIM, BIKE, RUN

"A triathlon is a multi-sport event involving the completion of three continuous and sequential endurance events.[1] While many variations of the sport exist, triathlon, in its most popular form, involves swimming, cycling, and running in immediate succession over various distances." - Wiki

If you walk the swim, walk the bike and walk the run, then it is a walk, not a multisport event.

E=H2O
April 8th, 2012, 01:41 PM
ChrisM is one of the good swimmers to post on beginnertriathlete.com. Most of the swim advice on that forum is horrifying. However, use of the term "competent " is entirely dependent in the forum.

Agreed. I'm on that forum from time to time (used to be more when I did them) and you can spend all your time trying to correct false beliefs. One of my favorites is that you should turn before you get to the wal because there are no walls in the swim leg. This one is repeatedly put forth as knowledge. I can't remember how many times I have tried to clear that one up. A corollary to that is that you should not do flip turns because you don't do flip turns in the swim leg.

Trifly on BT gives good advice, but the person who acts as the expert most of the time has a limited perspective. It is fairly sound, but does lead itself to be misunderstood by some triathletes. Frankly, I think for most of the people on that forum swimming needs to be simplified. I just hope that as they progress they expand their knowledge base beyond what is presented as expert advice.

Lui
April 8th, 2012, 02:41 PM
ChrisM is one of the good swimers to post on beginnertriathlete.com. Most of the swim advice on that forum is horrifying. However, use of the term "competent " is entirely dependent in the forum.

My experience is that many triathletes(at least on forums) don't know squat about swimming but think they know more than Michael Phelps.
I just read a thread in a triathlon forum where a 45 year old mom who just started running last year plans to do THREE triathlons this summer. She has zero experience in swimming and zero experience in cycling. She is just learning to swim/cycle and said she hopes to manage to swim 50 meters soon(no, I'm not kidding).
I mentioned if it wouldn't be better to learn more swimming first and then do a triathlon or at least start with one and see how it goes and go from there but she insists she is very ambitious. All the other triathletes just said "Go for it". Well, summer is in 3 months. One reason the other triathletes don't consider swimming as important is because they argue that even if you swim breast stroke(the version with your head above the water) and really suck, you will make the time on the bike and while running so it's more important to cycle a lot.

Oh, at the end I told her she should just try her best and in the beginning she will probably not be very good but she'll see how the procedure goes and can work from there. Her answer was "I intend to be one of the first five of my age group"......hmm

E=H2O
April 8th, 2012, 03:05 PM
"I intend to be one of the first five of my age group"......hmm

In some local races there may only be 5 in my AG

Betsy
April 8th, 2012, 05:02 PM
From these comments I believe the triathletes in my area are smarter than most. Any I have come in contact with take a year to prepare for an Ironman length Tri. Many work with a coach.
On the other hand, I have been the starter at a triathlon (with a swim of <1000 m) with the swim in the ocean. there are always some who turn back within 30 sec. They have never been in the ocean and didn't try it the day before or the morning of.

Lui
April 8th, 2012, 06:20 PM
From these comments I believe the triathletes in my area are smarter than most.

That's why I added "at least on forums". Obviously you don't notice the triathlete who just concentrates on training and prepares quietly. You just notice the ones on triathlons forums who say "I decided to to my first triathlon next week. Does anybody know how to swim?":D

Trail.dog1
April 10th, 2012, 05:57 PM
The last time I checked the sport is SWIM, BIKE, RUN

"A triathlon is a multi-sport event involving the completion of three continuous and sequential endurance events.[1] While many variations of the sport exist, triathlon, in its most popular form, involves swimming, cycling, and running in immediate succession over various distances." - Wiki

If you walk the swim, walk the bike and walk the run, then it is a walk, not a multisport event.

If you were to walk, say, half a mile, during the marathon portion of an Ironman event, does that mean you did not complete it?

E=H2O
April 10th, 2012, 06:42 PM
If you were to walk, say, half a mile, during the marathon portion of an Ironman event, does that mean you did not complete it?

I'll assume that this is not a serious question.

Trail.dog1
April 11th, 2012, 08:42 AM
I'll assume that this is not a serious question.

You know what they say about people who assume?

(except it isnt making an as* out of me)

aquageek
April 11th, 2012, 09:32 AM
I train with a few very accomplished triathletes. I only call them triathletes because it fits this topic. But, they are all really swimmers, bikers, and runners. They train like swimmers. The answer to the question of "how much do triathletes need to know about swimming" is really dependent on how competitive they want to be. If they are part of the 98% of triathletes who simply want to finish a race so they can put a sticker on their car and call themselves triathletes, the answer is "not much." If they are part of the 2% that really want to take their competition to the next level, the answer is "quite a lot."

E=H2O
April 11th, 2012, 10:52 AM
If they are part of the 2% that really want to take their competition to the next level, the answer is "quite a lot."
You might be surprised to find that there a good number of MOP & BOP that take it very seriously. Even the old farts like me train & race so hard we are completely blown at the end of the race. I joke about going for a nice bike ride and a bit of a jog after the swim, but I can assure you that racing the swim is easy part. I always had to spend the rest of the race trying hold my place. It takes a lot of mental toughness to continue to push the pain limit as people pass you. Thankfully, the field in my AG is relatively small.

E=H2O
April 11th, 2012, 11:03 AM
You know what they say about people who assume?

(except it isnt making an as* out of me)

Since you are relatively new to this forum, and apparently swimming as reflected in your other posts, I'll give you a pass on this one. You might find Slowtwitch more your liking. And before you go off, let me say that some of my best friends are mountain bikers

aquageek
April 11th, 2012, 11:32 AM
You might be surprised to find that there a good number of MOP & BOP that take it very seriously. Even the old farts like me train & race so hard we are completely blown at the end of the race. I joke about going for a nice bike ride and a bit of a jog after the swim, but I can assure you that racing the swim is easy part. I always had to spend the rest of the race trying hold my place. It takes a lot of mental toughness to continue to push the pain limit as people pass you. Thankfully, the field in my AG is relatively small.

I've done quite a few tris over the years and I sorta agree with you. However, the bluster is usually not on par with the actual training.

I also think MOP and BOP are two terms that need to be banished. I don't know why they are used so often, other than to simply annoy me.

E=H2O
April 11th, 2012, 11:43 AM
I've done quite a few tris over the years and I sorta agree with you. However, the bluster is usually not on par with the actual training.

lol. So true of many, but in the older (50+) AGs I think we have a more realistic view of what we've put in, and what we can expect back.


I also think MOP and BOP are two terms that need to be banished. I don't know why they are used so often, other than to simply annoy me.

I absolutely agree, but I think they need to add RUF (Right Up Front) so I can boast about my swim results.

Trail.dog1
April 11th, 2012, 12:41 PM
Brilliant, kind Sir! How fortunate I am to have been granted a pass by you! I shall spread news of your generosity! Noobs from the farthest reaches of the internet shall come to bask in the glory of your posting genius!


You might find Slowtwitch more your liking.

I doubt it. The internet is an awful mess of idiocy. Trying to find any semblance of reason is like playing the lottery.


Finding sarcasm, on the other hand...

E=H2O
April 11th, 2012, 12:53 PM
Finding sarcasm, on the other hand...

:duel::ohyeah:

lefty
April 11th, 2012, 02:45 PM
On the other hand I will say something that I do like about the tri community is that most of the people are coming to it as adults and are doing it BECAUSE of the challenge. They know they won't necessarily be good at it yet aren't afraid to go out there and do it. Or to go out there and suck :-)

This is in contrast to a good chunk of swimmers on my own squad who won't go to a meet, or won't do this event or that event because they don't think they will do well at it or because it's hard. It' is a totally different mindset actually. I think the unfortunate part is that the swimmers might be missing out on some fun and rewarding experiences.

This is a good and sound observation on the difference between the two groups. And geek kind of finished off the point talking about the difference between the 2% of triathletes (probably more like 10% ) who really want to race, compete and win.

So swimmers have something to learn from triathletes: Just do the event. Don't worry so much about being fast.

And triathletes ahve something to learn from swimmers: Don't be a poser. You didn't compete in an Ironman, you completed an Ironman. You can still be proud of the accomplishment though!

ChrisM
April 11th, 2012, 04:00 PM
Athough I swore off this thread, it's getting interesting.

Just trying to clarify, I don't think winning (being competitive) is a requirement to be a serious triathlete, or take swimming seriously. That's sort of a jaded viewpoint. One could, without thinking about it, say the exact same thing about OW swimmers that go do an alcatraz crossing, or a pier to pier, then check it off the list. My impression is that there are many more serious people in both tris and OW swimming, by an order of magnitude, than a 2% that wants to cross off a bucket list (there are those as well, as there are in every sport).

If having to be competitive were true, it wouldn't explain my story very well. But maybe I can just go home after work and eat chips rather than driving to masters workout.....:banana:

I am one of those that is one of the first out of the water, then spend the rest of the race trying to hold off those weaker swimmers that can bike and run faster than me. I'm getting better at it, this year I was 11th out of the water (AG), then 54 and 72 after bike and run at Oceanside 70.3. Last year I was 16th out of the water, and then 100-something after the bike and 150-something after the run. I am "competitive" on the swim, but it's not an open water swim. It's a swim/bike/run.

I swim 300K plus yards a year, and it's just enough to keep me out front for a little while (and nets me a top 30% or so at swim only events). I know folks that swim faster on less. But it's a helluva lot more than most people I see on BT and other boards, so that part of the point is fairly valid. Personally, I am just of the training opinion that being in good swim shape doesn't just get you a good swim time, it sets up a good day. If you get to the bike and/or run totally gassed, a fast swim is irrelevant. But I have worked my a$$ off the last year to get better at biking and running while trying to maintain a semblance of swim fitness.

There are only 3 (sometimes 5) podium slots. I'd have to go at least an hour faster overall to smell the podium at a 70.3 (and every year seems to get faster). That does not mean I don't take the swim (very) seriously, and enter every race trying to go as fast as I can, which in every case is not as fast as others. I really want to win, I am just not fast enough to actually do so

aquageek
April 11th, 2012, 04:58 PM
My impression is that there are many more serious people in both tris and OW swimming, by an order of magnitude, than a 2% that wants to cross off a bucket list (there are those as well, as there are in every sport).

My 2% figure was hyperbole but not by much. If you read the beginner tri forums they are chock full of "just want to finish" comments, which I cannot understand. Just finishing implies defeat. Even if you finish DFL you should give it your all and not just be satisfied you crossed the finish line. The vast majority of triathlons are not IMs, HIMs or Olys. They are sprints, or, worse yet, super sprints. If your goal is to simply finish one of those, time for some new goals, like developing the next great Taco Bell entre.

ChrisM
April 11th, 2012, 05:27 PM
Just my .02, I think that anything that helps someone adopt a healthier lifestyle, even if that starts out as "just finishing" is a really good thing, and not something to be scoffed at.

I personally think that finishing is a perfectly appropriate goal on a site like BT, which is called after all beginner triathlete, and where many people coming to tris (it's the new "thing") are middle aged, or have been out of competition since high school, etc.

I also personally think that just wanting to finish is perfectly fine no matter where you happen to lie on the training spectrum. My first tri, and my first HIM, and my first IM, my goal was simply to finish. And my first tri was [gasp] a super sprint (albeit with a .5 mile swim). For the longer races I had time goals as well, but goal #1 was get across the line. I started at 38, hadn't swam competitively since high school, had never run a 5K in my life, etc etc etc Since then I've lost about 75 pounds due to the healthier lifestyle. But I still haven't won a tri, so I suppose I should just stop altogether.

I am glad I didn't give up tris because I wasn't in it to win it from the first one. And because I don't make very good tacos.

ETA - I will give on this one though, someone just posted in a thread I am on that they don't do flip turns or push off the wall as they "don't want free speed." Can't defend that one.....

aquageek
April 12th, 2012, 04:55 AM
Just my .02, I think that anything that helps someone adopt a healthier lifestyle, even if that starts out as "just finishing" is a really good thing, and not something to be scoffed at.

We agree on this but it's more the mindset that I don't understand.

swimthegoodfight
April 12th, 2012, 11:48 AM
is it just me or does anyone else believe flipturns contribute to your swim fitness and therefore triathletes will actually improve their swim leg if committed to flipturns in their training...

swimthegoodfight
April 12th, 2012, 11:53 AM
in addition, i located a triathlon I am committed to doing in the very near future.

http://elephantmantriathlon.com/ elephant butte, new mexico - 1 mile swim; 26 mile bike; 6 mile run - late september

it is one of the very few mile open water swims in new mexico.

I wish more of them had the mile swim with this bike and run

ChrisM
April 12th, 2012, 12:43 PM
is it just me or does anyone else believe flipturns contribute to your swim fitness and therefore triathletes will actually improve their swim leg if committed to flipturns in their training...


God, don't even start with me on some triathletes and flip turning. I will join in on the bagging in some cases on this topic, I simply do not get the "there are no walls in OW so I am going to stop before the wall, turtle around, and start from a dead stop." As if that is a better way to train, or better yet that those that flip turn are actually swimming shorter distances and therefore aren't training as well.

Some triathletes suffer from this myopia that triathlons are not actually swimming, biking or running, but one sport consisting of S/B/R, so they refuse to train as swimmers do, or bikers do.

But usually the thread evolution on BT goes something like "I can't flip turn," to "I am poor at them" to "Thanks for encouraging me to flip turn, I do them now and am a better swimmer" Although there are those that are steadfast in their belief that flip turning is not relevant

There is a tri in Santa Barbara that is 1 mile swim, 34 mile bike, 10 mile run. There are also new tri formats being developed, the Leadman 125 and 250, in Vegas and Bend Oregon with 2.5K or 5K swims

E=H2O
April 12th, 2012, 12:54 PM
There is a tri in Santa Barbara that is 1 mile swim, 34 mile bike, 10 mile run.
I've done this one and it's terrific. It didn't hurt that I used to live there and knew every inch of the bike leg.

ChrisM
April 12th, 2012, 01:06 PM
I've done this one and it's terrific. It didn't hurt that I used to live there and knew every inch of the bike leg.

It is probably my favorite race. Longer than an Oly, not quite a half, but enough swimming to put some space in between me and the others. The bike is tough though, as is the first half of the run. I imploded there last year.

samo
April 12th, 2012, 05:23 PM
http://elephantmantriathlon.com/ elephant butte, new mexico - 1 mile swim; 26 mile bike; 6 mile run - late september


Those seem pretty close to Olympic Triathlon race distances which are 1500m (~100m short of a mile), 24.8 mile bike and 6.2 mile run... Hopefully, you'll see more of them in New Mexico in the future! Good luck!

harperfish
April 20th, 2012, 11:47 AM
Hi,

I'm writing for Swimmer magazine about integrating triathletes into pool workouts. What has been your experience with tris, both the races and the people? Send your phone number/email if you what to share your thoughts.

Regards,