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View Full Version : Average Masters swimmer against rowboat



Edward The Head
May 3rd, 2012, 08:46 AM
Could an average, me, Masters swimmer beat an average person in a rowboat? You know this started as a bet and I think I might be able to do it. The race would be around 400 meters in open water with a turn around. I'm going to ask for a start from the dock as well.

I'm pretty much an average swimmer, for Masters anyway. I can do 1:25-1:30 100 meters and 6-6:15 for a 400 meters in practice. He would be in an older metal, flat bottom, triangular rowboat.

I've tried to see how fast a rowboat goes, but I've seen way too much variation, usually between 1-5 knots, with the average being 2-3.

Do you think it's possible I can beat him? I think I can take him, especially with the start and turn around. Has anyone else attempted such a race, and did you win?

knelson
May 3rd, 2012, 09:48 AM
I'm just guessing, but I think the rowboat will be faster once it gets moving. You need to build up a lead at the start and on the turn. The turn, especially, is going to slow the boat down.

fmracing
May 3rd, 2012, 10:11 AM
Some would also depend on if they have ever rowed before. Someone that has never rowed before may work to your advantage.

ALM
May 3rd, 2012, 10:51 AM
Could an average, me, Masters swimmer beat an average person in a rowboat? You know this started as a bet and I think I might be able to do it.

By making this known on the forums you are aware, I'm sure, that we will be expecting video documentation...

Allen Stark
May 3rd, 2012, 12:05 PM
If the person in the rowboat knows what they are doing they should win.If they are sloppy you might get enough lead on the start and turn to hold them off.
The race is not always to the swift nor the battle to the strong,but that's the way the smart money bets.

Sojerz
May 3rd, 2012, 12:10 PM
By making this known on the forums you are aware, I'm sure, that we will be expecting video documentation...

Edward might be on to something new here - instead just taking on runners and cyclists in triathlons, let's go after the rowers too. :banana:

jaadams1
May 3rd, 2012, 10:56 PM
I'm just guessing, but I think the rowboat will be faster once it gets moving. You need to build up a lead at the start and on the turn. The turn, especially, is going to slow the boat down.

In high school, our coach used to bring his remote control speedboat to the pool to do races against us. It was a head to head 50, completed in the width of a lane with lanelines. The turn was definitely the toughest part for the coach with the boat. The straightaways, that boat would haul butt, but he'd have to time the turn just right to graze the wall with the side of the boat, but also not peg the laneline! Only a few of us were ever able to beat "DAS BOAT". I wasn't lucky enough. :( Most who beat the boat where because of laneline crashes on the turn.

__steve__
May 3rd, 2012, 11:17 PM
Get ahead on the start. If the boat passes and is going too fast, jump into its draft. At the turn, do a flip using the back of the boat as a wall. This will push it further away and might give you a chance.

200M would be better.

Edward The Head
May 4th, 2012, 07:50 AM
I think it might be pretty close. Doing some rough calculations I should be able to keep 1.6-1.8 knots. From what I've seen rowboats do 2-3 knots. I know I can't do more then 2.5-3 knots in my kayak, though I'm not that good with it.

I think I can take him, though I need to find ways to get the advantage, like make him touch the other side with an oar. My biggest problem is that I don't sight well. I don't think that will be too big of a problem at less then 200 yard each way.

Any other ideas on how to gain an advantage?

pmccoy
May 4th, 2012, 09:33 AM
I think it might be pretty close. Doing some rough calculations I should be able to keep 1.6-1.8 knots. From what I've seen rowboats do 2-3 knots. I know I can't do more then 2.5-3 knots in my kayak, though I'm not that good with it.

I think I can take him, though I need to find ways to get the advantage, like make him touch the other side with an oar. My biggest problem is that I don't sight well. I don't think that will be too big of a problem at less then 200 yard each way.

Any other ideas on how to gain an advantage?Get ahead on the dive, wait for him to catch up and then hold on to the front of the rowboat. Push off at the finish line. No effort, sure win.

Here's my take on this:
Your time is pretty much known. It will take you roughly 360 seconds to complete the course. If you shave, taper, warm up and get an illegal full body suit, you might improve on that time a bit but 360 seconds is good to start with. 360s is 2.18 knots btw.

We don't know much about the rowboat but we can get a general idea of what it will take for the rowboat to beat you. The rowboat will lose some time (x) during the turn and during acceleration. That leaves it 360 - x seconds to complete 400 meters. Put another way, it will have to go 400/(360 - x) m/s. 1 knot = .5144 m/s so the required rowboat speed would be:

777.6/(360 - x) knots

x is a complete estimate but we can take a look at required speeds for different values of x:

x = 10s, boat speed = 2.22 knots
x = 20s, boat speed = 2.29 knots
x = 30s, boat speed = 2.36 knots
x = 40s, boat speed = 2.43 knots

So, if you think the rowboat can make 2.5 knots and you can't make 360s, I'd look at ways to cheat alternative paths to victory.

Edit: I agree with the above.... a video is required at this point.

smontanaro
May 4th, 2012, 09:42 AM
So, if you think the rowboat can make 2.5 knots and you can't make 360s, I'd look at ways to cheat alternative paths to victory.

Maybe you could surreptitiously tie a small anchor to the rowboat. There must be eyelets on it for mooring purposes...

I agree about the video. We need to see this one...

Skip

fatboy
May 4th, 2012, 12:51 PM
I think it might be pretty close. Doing some rough calculations I should be able to keep 1.6-1.8 knots. From what I've seen rowboats do 2-3 knots. I know I can't do more then 2.5-3 knots in my kayak, though I'm not that good with it.

I think I can take him, though I need to find ways to get the advantage, like make him touch the other side with an oar. My biggest problem is that I don't sight well. I don't think that will be too big of a problem at less then 200 yard each way.

Any other ideas on how to gain an advantage?

Fins and paddles :)

Debugger
May 4th, 2012, 01:48 PM
Fins and paddles :)
+ this http://www.elitat.ru/m_stat/505/1.jpg :D
(http://www.elitat.ru/m_stat/505/1.jpg)

Allen Stark
May 4th, 2012, 02:44 PM
+ this http://www.elitat.ru/m_stat/505/1.jpg :D
(http://www.elitat.ru/m_stat/505/1.jpg)

Or even better The dolphin jetpack that lets you swim like one - YouTube

Celestial
May 4th, 2012, 03:53 PM
Any other ideas on how to gain an advantage?

Good Wetsuit might give you a bit of an advantage too. I like the idea of pushing off the wall of the boat as well - sneaky & underhanded!! :bump:

Sojerz
May 4th, 2012, 04:06 PM
Running/flying start from the dock or buy/rent one of these jet packs:banana:

Debugger
May 5th, 2012, 10:19 AM
Or even better The dolphin jetpack that lets you swim like one - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-7RlL3YtiQ)
It depends how high was the stake - if more than 4900 euro than buying the jetpack would be a reasonable investment :D

orca1946
May 5th, 2012, 12:11 PM
Make it UP river !!

ViveBene
May 5th, 2012, 11:18 PM
He would be in an older metal, flat bottom, triangular rowboat.



Mortar bed. That should do it.

Fins25
May 6th, 2012, 06:32 AM
The things people do when they bet with their mates! I can't say I have raced against a boat before but having swam in lots of races and also rowed a few boats, I would say the boat has the upper hand.

Definitely have a wetsuit and make it over a shorter distance. If you can get the race into the breeze also this will help as the height of the boat will increase the amount of resistance. And maybe......find a way to cheat

Debugger
May 7th, 2012, 04:02 AM
If you swim 400m under 4:50 I think you have quite good chances esp. if to count advantage in the start and the turn.
Allen was right - it depends a lot on the one who is in the boat if he's professional boat racer you'd better step out :bolt:

Edward The Head
May 7th, 2012, 09:15 AM
If you swim 400m under 4:50 I think you have quite good chances esp. if to count advantage in the start and the turn.

I wish I could swim a 400 in under 4:50.

He is a mid 40s out of shape guy so I do think it will be close. Not sure if I want to stick a video up on the internet though. I'll have to see what kind of shape I can get into by late July.