PDA

View Full Version : Breathing on the first stroke in distance free



gull
May 22nd, 2012, 02:06 PM
In the finals of the 1500 at Worlds, I noticed that all of the swimmers were breathing on the first stroke coming out of their turns instead of taking a pull with the deeper arm and breathing on the second stroke. Any thoughts?

pwb
May 22nd, 2012, 02:10 PM
Must ... get ... air ...

Yes, I've noticed that as well. In the old school days, I was always taught not to breathe off the wall, but I was also taught to breathe every 3. I have abandoned both of this ideas, convinced that my coaches were just masochists.

tjrpatt
May 22nd, 2012, 02:31 PM
I try to do that but, sometimes you need the air. Plus, if you are doing some SDK action(1 or 2 kicks), you definitely need the air.

pendaluft
May 22nd, 2012, 02:37 PM
I have abandoned both of this ideas, convinced that my coaches were just masochists.

Maybe sadists.

ande
May 22nd, 2012, 02:55 PM
In the finals of the 1500 at Worlds, I noticed that all of the swimmers were breathing on the first stroke coming out of their turns instead of taking a pull with the deeper arm and breathing on the second stroke. Any thoughts?

Hey Gull,

Yes, in longer swims, I breathe the 1st stroke off each wall & every 2 while swimming. (except for the start)
When I'm really hurting I'll breathe the 1st & 2nd stroke off each wall,
Did that in my Aug 2011 10k, I know I did it in the recent 1650 I swam, may have done it in a 500 & 400 IM. Breathing the 1st stroke off the wall is a bad idea for 50's, 100's 200s, 400's & 500's

Asked Eddie Reese about it and I think he said it's OK for distance swimmers to do that. I'll ask again.

Ande

btw You don't live too far from the swim center now, drop in for some work outs
right now Mon, Wed & Fri mornings are LCM
Usually Saturday is too and the focus is distance.
You'd enjoy FAST FRIDAYS

ElaineK
May 22nd, 2012, 03:06 PM
Must ... get ... air ...


:agree: I have tried and tried to take a stroke off the wall before breathing and can only do it on the first turn or two before I must...get...air! Even on easy swims, I give up on that idea after the first few laps.

Back in high school, I did it every time and breathed every 4 strokes regularly. But, as I have aged, I MUST breathe every stroke, due to diminished lung capacity. :cane:

As a breaststroker, the most difficult thing for me is the last pullout on a 200 race. :afraid:

smontanaro
May 22nd, 2012, 03:12 PM
As a breaststroker, the most difficult thing for me is the last pullout on a 200 race.

Good thing you don't do the 400IM. :D I had a masters coach who was an IMer in college. he said the pull-out at 275 was the worst.

aquageek
May 22nd, 2012, 03:31 PM
It could be worse, I yell at my swimmers not to breathe off the walls and they noted I breathed off every wall on my 500 and 1650 in Greensboro. Oh, that went over like a pregnant pole vaulter with them. That dang oxygen is addictive.

ElaineK
May 22nd, 2012, 03:43 PM
Good thing you don't do the 400IM. :D I had a masters coach who was an IMer in college. he said the pull-out at 275 was the worst.

I am definitely a sprinter. My 50 breaststroke is the best and it gets worse as the distance increases. So, I am out of my element even swimming a 200.

One of these days, just to challenge myself, I am going to do a 400 IM, though. This year, my challenge is to swim the 3K in the Georgia Games Open Water Swim. (Geek, I will dedicate this swim to your "Both Sides of the Lane" column. ;)) And, hopefully, I will make it back in time to turn around and start the 1K with everybody else, one hour later! (I heard the 3K is much longer than a true 3K, so who knows?)

aquageek
May 22nd, 2012, 03:58 PM
(I heard the 3K is much longer than a true 3K, so who knows?)

What does that mean? A 3K is 3K. In open water you often get incorrect distances measured so it could be more or less.

__steve__
May 22nd, 2012, 04:53 PM
If I feel deprived of air after the turn I get sloppy and loose speed whether I breath on the first or not. If I'm not despirate for air and keep my cool I can actually breath on the first without much loss of momentum, but in order to do this I have to hold as much as I can while flipping to the point of taking water through the nose.

mlabresh
May 22nd, 2012, 05:14 PM
I am definitely a sprinter. My 50 breaststroke is the best and it gets worse as the distance increases. So, I am out of my element even swimming a 200.




I have the same issue! I can handle the 50 pretty well, but the more I go beyond that, the worse I do. :cane:

orca1946
May 22nd, 2012, 06:20 PM
If you can --- then by all means do it! Most of us will try to do this till our brain overrides thought for need of AIR!!!

Celestial
May 22nd, 2012, 06:30 PM
:agree: As a breaststroker, the most difficult thing for me is the last pullout on a 200 race. :afraid:

I thought that last turn was bad for everybody!
One thing I started doing Elaine, after my race in Feb @ Auburn, when I thought I was going to just die on the last turn of the blasted 200 breast (why, oh why do I enter that race?) - in practice, as much as possible I will do 2 kicks on my pullout and then the pull. I also do that drill where you take two underwater kicks and then a pull - and do three underwater kicks instead. Due to a severe illness as a child I only have 1 1/4 lungs left - which is how I got into swimming to begin with. You can increase your lung power, even as you age, even as you loose the elasticity of your tissues - but you have to be stubborn & persistent. I've noticed quite a difference already., and during my race at the end of March, it was still a ruff turn, but much better.

swimcat
May 22nd, 2012, 06:35 PM
When i swim OW, i breath every stroke and sight every 7th.
Right now, today in practice- i am breathing alot as i am back indoors in the tomb of chlorine death.

swimcat
May 22nd, 2012, 06:37 PM
Hey Gull,

Yes, in longer swims, I breathe the 1st stroke off each wall & every 2 while swimming. (except for the start)
When I'm really hurting I'll breathe the 1st & 2nd stroke off each wall,
Did that in my Aug 2011 10k, I know I did it in the recent 1650 I swam, may have done it in a 500 & 400 IM. Breathing the 1st stroke off the wall is a bad idea for 50's, 100's 200s, 400's & 500's

Asked Eddie Reese about it and I think he said it's OK for distance swimmers to do that. I'll ask again.

Ande

btw You don't live too far from the swim center now, drop in for some work outs
right now Mon, Wed & Fri mornings are LCM
Usually Saturday is too and the focus is distance.
You'd enjoy FAST FRIDAYS


Dumb question but every 2 Strokes aka hand hits ?

jaadams1
May 22nd, 2012, 07:03 PM
It could be worse, I yell at my swimmers not to breathe off the walls and they noted I breathed off every wall on my 500 and 1650 in Greensboro. Oh, that went over like a pregnant pole vaulter with them. That dang oxygen is addictive.

For my first practice after Canadian Nats, I did part of the "Ode to Geek" workout from PWB, and yes, I did breathe first right off the turns. Air is very necessary.

Pregnant Pole Vaulter - something to look for, that would be a sight! :applaud:

qbrain
May 22nd, 2012, 07:18 PM
:agree: I have tried and tried to take a stroke off the wall before breathing

It's ok for a breaststroker to breath off the wall in all distances.

jaadams1
May 22nd, 2012, 07:27 PM
It's ok for a breaststroker to breath off the wall in all distances.

As long as they don't skip out on the underwater pull and kick!! :agree:

quicksilver
May 22nd, 2012, 07:34 PM
In the finals of the 1500 at Worlds, I noticed that all of the swimmers were breathing on the first stroke coming out of their turns instead of taking a pull with the deeper arm and breathing on the second stroke. Any thoughts?


Staying oxygenated obviously has its benefits.

Sun Yang has been know to breathe not just every stroke but every arm cycle. You can see him do that right after the first turn in this clip. And on every turn after that.

Shanghai Aquatics 2011 - Sun Yang is the new 1500M world record holder (Part 2 of 2) - YouTube

ElaineK
May 22nd, 2012, 08:00 PM
What does that mean? A 3K is 3K. In open water you often get incorrect distances measured so it could be more or less.

Well, it is supposed to be a "3K" at a lake. But, according to a few swimmers who swam it in past years, it wasn't a correct measurement and the 3K is actually longer.

ElaineK
May 22nd, 2012, 08:08 PM
I thought that last turn was bad for everybody!
One thing I started doing Elaine, after my race in Feb @ Auburn, when I thought I was going to just die on the last turn of the blasted 200 breast (why, oh why do I enter that race?) - in practice, as much as possible I will do 2 kicks on my pullout and then the pull. I also do that drill where you take two underwater kicks and then a pull - and do three underwater kicks instead. Due to a severe illness as a child I only have 1 1/4 lungs left - which is how I got into swimming to begin with. You can increase your lung power, even as you age, even as you loose the elasticity of your tissues - but you have to be stubborn & persistent. I've noticed quite a difference already., and during my race at the end of March, it was still a ruff turn, but much better.

Yeah, I ask myself the same thing! :doh: But, after thinking about it after Nationals, I realized that the more regret I experience during a race, the more satisfaction I feel afterwards at having successfully completed it! Success, of course, is relative. At Nationals, I felt successful just having completed it without completely ripping apart my already-strained right adductor muscle!

Thanks for the lung training ideas; I will have to give them a try!

Fresnoid
May 23rd, 2012, 12:54 PM
In the finals of the 1500 at Worlds, I noticed that all of the swimmers were breathing on the first stroke coming out of their turns instead of taking a pull with the deeper arm and breathing on the second stroke. Any thoughts?

What do you mean by first stroke? I always breath on the first hand strike, which is the third arm pull.

smontanaro
May 23rd, 2012, 01:09 PM
I always breath on the first hand strike, which is the third arm pull.

No wonder you're so fast. Just how many arms do have??? :D

Fresnoid
May 23rd, 2012, 01:38 PM
No wonder you're so fast. Just how many arms do have??? :D

Funny guy. No one's ever accused me of being fast before.

Seriously, I push off on the left side, pull with the bottom arm (left), pull with the right arm (left arm is now in the air) then breathe when the left hand hits. Is that the first stroke or the third?

qbrain
May 23rd, 2012, 01:43 PM
Funny guy. No one's ever accused me of being fast before.

Seriously, I push off on the left side, pull with the bottom arm (left), pull with the right arm (left arm is now in the air) then breathe when the left hand hits. Is that the first stroke or the third?

3rd

slow
May 23rd, 2012, 02:19 PM
I have been experimenting with sneaking a breath right before the turn versus breathing on the first stroke. Right now I am thinking breathing on the first stroke seems better.

Rich Abrahams
May 23rd, 2012, 03:19 PM
Staying oxygenated obviously has its benefits.

Sun Yang has been know to breathe not just every stroke but every arm cycle. You can see him do that right after the first turn in this clip. And on every turn after that.

Shanghai Aquatics 2011 - Sun Yang is the new 1500M world record holder (Part 2 of 2) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-ZMbiem-V8&feature=related)

Thanks for posting the video. Sun Yang's swim is a thing of beauty. Technically flawless. 27 strokes a length LCM is unreal. I'm waiting to see what he does in London. Maybe he'll start picking up the pace before his last 100!

quicksilver
May 23rd, 2012, 04:54 PM
You're very welcome. He's an amazing swimmer. Flawless technique, like TI but at a very unique level.

How anyone can bring home the last 100 of the mile in :54.2 is beyond remarkable. The podium definitely awaits him this summer.

Back to the thread topic, staying fresh probably helped him crank it up a knotch at the end.

smontanaro
May 23rd, 2012, 05:05 PM
Funny guy. No one's ever accused me of being fast before.

Seriously, I push off on the left side, pull with the bottom arm (left), pull with the right arm (left arm is now in the air) then breathe when the left hand hits. Is that the first stroke or the third?

I only count two pulls. Pull with the left, pull with the right, breathe. I don't see how you can take three strokes and only have one hand entry. I must be missing something. I'll have to mess around at the pool in the AM...

Skip

knelson
May 23rd, 2012, 05:32 PM
You're very welcome. He's an amazing swimmer. Flawless technique, like TI but at a very unique level.

I love the overhead shots. His body line is incredible. He's like an arrow in the water.

quicksilver
May 23rd, 2012, 10:38 PM
I love the overhead shots.

Same here. Unlike the standardized camera angle from the bleachers, the overhead view dramatically changes the perspective of each race. You really get a sense of how fast they're actually moving.

Hope they do lots of this during the broadcast this summer.

qbrain
May 24th, 2012, 09:18 AM
Same here. Unlike the standardized camera angle from the bleachers, the overhead view dramatically changes the perspective of each race. You really get a sense of how fast they're actually moving.

Hope they do lots of this during the broadcast this summer.

Someone took all the underwaters shots, strung them together and saved it in slow motion. If you want to get your stroke distance close to 2m/stroke, it is quite educational.

Sun Yang Front Crawl Technique (Under Water & Slow Motion) - YouTube

__steve__
May 24th, 2012, 11:12 AM
His position resembles someone with a pull buoy. Feet and hips high without much effort to maintain this position, even with looking slightly forward. I guess he his the perfect build for distance swimming

slow
May 24th, 2012, 03:26 PM
I think Sun Yang is similiar to The Albatross. Here is that crazy 1984 4x200 where Hayes pulled out an amazing performance, but I am linking it so you can see Michael Gross breathing on the first stroke.

1984 Olympic Men's 4x200m Freestyle Relay final - YouTube


6:25, 6:52

Gross was listed at 6'7" with a wingspan of nearly 7', and I understand Sun Yang is 6'6" with a notably big wingspan as well.

Fresnoid
May 26th, 2012, 12:54 AM
I think Sun Yang is similiar to The Albatross. Here is that crazy 1984 4x200 where Hayes pulled out an amazing performance, but I am linking it so you can see Michael Gross breathing on the first stroke.

1984 Olympic Men's 4x200m Freestyle Relay final - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX2XSPXGKOo)


6:25, 6:52

Gross was listed at 6'7" with a wingspan of nearly 7', and I understand Sun Yang is 6'6" with a notably big wingspan as well.

I never get tired of watching that race. I was never very good, but I was at USC in the early 80's and trained with both Float and Fahrner.

__steve__
May 26th, 2012, 11:22 AM
As conclusion you breath for optimal results when racing. Practice will cover finding what is optimal, an ongoing experiment, but useless unless I learn how to breath efficiently. Otherwise I'll be better off holding my breath, which is slower for anything over a length.

As standard for efficient breathing it is safe to say Sun Yang's approach is the the ideal model. Scott Tucker is another.

Fresnoid
May 26th, 2012, 01:09 PM
As conclusion you breath for optimal results when racing. Practice will cover finding what is optimal, an ongoing experiment, but useless unless I learn how to breath efficiently. Otherwise I'll be better off holding my breath, which is slower for anything over a length.

As standard for efficient breathing it is safe to say Sun Yang's approach is the the ideal model. Scott Tucker is another.

What is distinctive about Tucker's breathing? (he was my roommate at the last USS meet I did in 1995)

__steve__
May 26th, 2012, 06:06 PM
That's cool !

In the footage I've seen he manages to take a breath while the top goggle lense is still partially submerged. I keep the bottom one under, but not both.

Fresnoid
May 26th, 2012, 08:04 PM
That's cool !

In the footage I've seen he manages to take a breath while the top goggle lense is still partially submerged. I keep the bottom one under, but not both.

That guy was the most talented swimmer I ever encountered. He just skimmed across the top of the water. When I knew him, he wasn't particularly interested in pushing himself, but would do whatever the coach told him to without complaint. Since this is a distance thread, I'll make a relevant tie in. One time, 100 meter guy Scott Tucker did LCM 12x400 on 5:00 with me.

That Guy
May 26th, 2012, 08:31 PM
That guy was the most talented swimmer I ever encountered. Why thank you! You should probably encounter more swimmers, however.

Fresnoid
May 26th, 2012, 10:51 PM
Why thank you! You should probably encounter more swimmers, however.

After I hit "submit reply" I thought crap, I better edit that. Then decided nah, he won't catch it. So every time you log in, you do a search for those two words?

jaadams1
May 27th, 2012, 12:31 AM
So every time you log in, you do a search for those two words?

I'm sure he's got a macro set up that send him a text message/email/phone call/fire alarm every time "that" and "the other word" show up next to each other.

ddskier63
May 27th, 2012, 01:06 AM
This isn't a question relating to distance freestyle but it is a question about breathing in a freestyle event. In a 50m long course freestyle event, I'm taking a single breath. My question: where in the course of the swim should I take my breath? At the 25m mark? Will that quick breath at 25m allow enough time for the oxygen to reach my muscles before the end of the race? If I take my breath sooner than the 25m mark will I feel like my lungs will explode prior to finishing the race? Will my streamline and technique fall apart as I focus solely on my desperate desire to seek oxygen? Thoughts?

__steve__
May 27th, 2012, 12:13 PM
The guys head is almost completely submerged

http://www.megabody.com/popov-fan/swimming-go-swim-straight-arm-freestyle-with-scott-tucker-video_0483ca610.html

guppy
May 27th, 2012, 04:57 PM
Note: "The guy"