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backstroker53
June 3rd, 2012, 01:17 PM
A swimmer recently raised a point of concern about event schedule ‘C’ of the Northwest Zone Order of Events Schedule for Zone Championship meets. This is the order to be used for the 2013 SCM Meet. Primarily a breaststroker, the swimmer was concerned that there is only one event separating the 50 and 100 Breast.

I decided to look at the schedule a little closer and noticed that the same thing occurs in 4 out of the 6 schedules used for Zone Championship meets. Schedules ‘A’, ‘B’, ‘C’, and ‘CC’ all have the same problem with one stroke or another. That is, only one event separating races involving the same stroke.

Last year, Tim Waud of Oregon LMSC tackled this same problem with the 6-schedule rotation used by Oregon. He came up with a pretty good solution which ensures that at least two events separate races involving the same stroke for the six different orders of events. The schedule was subsequently adopted by Oregon and is now used to provide the order of events for all Oregon meets.


I would like to propose that the Northwest Zone review and consider the schedule developed by Tim and adopt it for Zone Championship meets. It is attached. The current Zone Schedule is also attached so you might compare the two.

Please provide comments no later than Friday, June 22nd. Thanks!

Wes Edwards
Northwest Zone Chair

jaadams1
June 3rd, 2012, 01:28 PM
What about the break and relay event in between those particular races as well. That seems to be sufficient rest.

We don't always get what we want in a lot of event lineups. Sometimes this means signing up for back to back events. It's not only breaststrokers that are hurt by these things. At times we have to pick other events, or just go with it.

I'm game for whatever lineup is out there. And yeah, while I prefer to the the 200 Fly or 400 IM first thing on the first day, I'll do it anywhere as well.

That Guy
June 3rd, 2012, 02:50 PM
What about the break and relay event in between those particular races as well. That seems to be sufficient rest.
And the one individual event in between the two breaststroke events is the 200 free, which is a sneaky-long event due to the high number of heats.

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BobBruce
June 3rd, 2012, 02:59 PM
Feeling somewhat like a broken record (anyone remember what that means?), I'll say this yet as I have many times in the past 12 years: If the Meet Director uses the current order of events as intended, and responsibly uses the relays and particularly the IMs to space individual events of the same stroke, there is no problem.

Kathy Casey
June 4th, 2012, 02:52 AM
Thank you to the 3 previous replies that said what I intended to say. As the author of these championship orders of events, my goal was to spread the back-to-backs evenly among all 6 orders of events. I did this all mathematically. Each order of events is designed to make a little over half of the swimmers happy and spread the happiness and complaints fairly evenly over all 6 orders of events. The count of back-to-backs for each order of events needs to be added to the attachments sent by Wes. I will send my original worksheet with the back-to-back count for each column near the bottom of the page to everyone through Wes, so you can see the back-to-back counts for each order of events. It's too big to attach to this. The breaks between quads are there specifically to place relays, IMs, and breaks creating more rest time between quads. When I proposed this to the zone, I also proposed that, should any problems be discovered, revisions might be made if they didn't destroy the distribution of back-to-backs among the 6 orders of events. Wes, please add the back-to-back counts to the current NW Zone Orders of Events and do the back-to-back count for the proposed order and add it to that document (I would do it, but I'm getting ready for Italy). No revisions can be made without doing the back-to-back counts for each order.

gingerp
June 4th, 2012, 08:09 PM
I was the breaststroker who requested a revist of the order of events. Tim's order makes complete sense as does Kathy's original 6 rotations (I still have them). I would never suggest a revisit for my favorite events that are so close to each other; i.e.; breast - fly. It's the single events breast, back, fly, and free, that concern me. Why in a championship meet would we allow/consider back to back or almost back to back in the single events when solutions are already in place?:

Kathy Casey
June 4th, 2012, 11:16 PM
The spots between quads for relays, IMs, and breaks create more time between the third event in the previous quad and the first event in the next quad. Because of the spots reserved for relays, breaks, and IMs, the thrid event in the previous quad and the first event in the next quad are not a back-to-back. There are 8 back-to-backs in each order of events.

Allen Stark
June 13th, 2012, 12:34 PM
Using a relay as the break just compounds the problem,especially if it is a MR.Then you have to either skip a relay,which may be a hardship for your teammates,or swim 3 back to back swims.I am OK with Tim's solution.

Allen Stark
June 13th, 2012, 12:44 PM
Here is my (tongue slightly in cheek) solution-the 50 and 100 BR should be on the same day and the 200 BR on the other day.The 50 BR should be the 2nd event of the day and the 100 BR the last event of the day or right before the final relay.The other events can be randomly assigned except that one event of 400M or more must be the first event each day so I can get more sleep.:bolt:

Kathy Casey
June 13th, 2012, 03:46 PM
Have the back-to-back counts been added to both the original championship orders of events and Tim's? Back-to-back counts have to be done.

gingerp
June 13th, 2012, 06:17 PM
There were no back to backs in Tim's rotation. Every stroke has at least 3 events between the same stroke. (i.e; sample: 100 fly, 3 events, 50 fly)

Kathy Casey
June 14th, 2012, 05:17 PM
The back-to backs have to be counted. If the back-to-backs are spread evenly among the 6 orders of events and there are 3 races between the fly events, the free events, etc., that's OK, BUT the back-to-backs have to be counted and be evenly spread out so the complaints and joy are spread evenly among all swimmers across all 6 orders of events. It is impossible to make everyone happy at the same time. Would somebody please count the back-to-backs in Tim's orders, and please list the back-to-back tables with each set of orders of events.