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ande
June 7th, 2012, 12:18 PM
2012 Fina World Masters Championships (http://www.finamasters2012.org/)
Riccone, Italy

Swimming Schedule: Start Lists & Results (http://95.110.194.230/index.htm)

Sun 06/10
800 Free

Mon 06/11
200 Back
100 Free
100 Breast

Tue 06/12
400 Medley
200 Free
50 Fly

Wed 06/13
50 Free
200 Medley
100 Fly
50 Breast

Thu 06/14
4x50 Free
4x50 Medley

Fri 06/15
200 Breast
100 Back
200 Fly

Sat 06/16
50 Back
400 Free

Why Not
June 10th, 2012, 05:17 AM
The total number of participants is 12600! There are over 100 water polo teams and more than 2300 swimmers join the open water swimming in the sea. To give you an idea of the huge number of participants the following example: 100 m free is swum in a 50 m pool with 10 lanes. And there are 224 series !!. There are ONLY 106 series for women. Men's 400 free 91 series! Mens 50 free? 282 series.

sunruh
June 10th, 2012, 07:13 AM
The total number of participants is 12600! There are over 100 water polo teams and more than 2300 swimmers join the open water swimming in the sea. To give you an idea of the huge number of participants the following example: 100 m free is swum in a 50 m pool with 10 lanes. And there are 224 series !!. There are ONLY 106 series for women. Men's 400 free 91 series! Mens 50 free? 282 series.

Yes i am 641 in the 800

It is 1:10pm and im still at the hotel on the day i race.
Will go over at about 3pm and see when i actually do race.
They are ready room filling empty lanes as they go.

Consider what warmups will be like monday morning with 560 men in the 200 back. You know all of them will want to practice starts and flags. Never mind the 2200+ for the 100 free

Steve

ElaineK
June 10th, 2012, 10:14 AM
Consider what warmups will be like monday morning with 560 men in the 200 back. You know all of them will want to practice starts and flags. Never mind the 2200+ for the 100 free


:afraid: I wonder what it will be like in Montreal, in 2014?

Chris Stevenson
June 10th, 2012, 11:32 AM
:afraid: I wonder what it will be like in Montreal, in 2014?

Smaller, IMO. 80% of the swimmers here are from Europe. When Worlds were at Stanford, there were far fewer than here (between 3000 and 4000 I think).

ElaineK
June 10th, 2012, 02:38 PM
Smaller, IMO. 80% of the swimmers here are from Europe. When Worlds were at Stanford, there were far fewer than here (between 3000 and 4000 I think).

:applaud: That would be a relief! But, from what I have read, Montreal is expecting a lot more swimmers than that:
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/2014+World+Masters+Championships+swimming+event+wi ll+nothing+like+2005+debacle+organizers/6399787/story.html

sunruh
June 10th, 2012, 03:33 PM
Showed up at the pool at 3pm

Found Nadine and Denise and another usa lady
Sat with them inside for. Oh 2hrs after a warmup

Sat more

More

Way more

Almost missed my event from when they called my name.

Finally swam at 735pm

Bronze in my 1st 800m since 1983


Ran into chris on my way out
Meet a few more usa people
It was raining when i got back to my hotel

Fresnoid
June 10th, 2012, 03:43 PM
Showed up at the pool at 3pm

Found Nadine and Denise and another usa lady
Sat with them inside for. Oh 2hrs after a warmup

Sat more

More

Way more

Almost missed my event from when they called my name.

Finally swam at 735pm

Bronze in my 1st 800m since 1983

Nice job. Were you in the same heat as the Ausie & the German?

sunruh
June 11th, 2012, 02:47 AM
Nice job. Were you in the same heat as the Ausie & the German?

No
I was in heat 54 lane 1
Aussie was in 56 and german in 57
I split it 4:30.55 , 4:31.76

And they split it 426,434

Over 100 scratches in the mens race

The Fortress
June 11th, 2012, 09:57 AM
No
I was in heat 54 lane 1
Aussie was in 56 and german in 57
I split it 4:30.55 , 4:31.76

And they split it 426,434

Over 100 scratches in the mens race

Congrats on your 800 free, Steve!

Water Rat mentioned in his blog that there was a mix up on positive check in for the 800 so that some of those scratches were a mistake?

Chris Stevenson -- 2nd in 200 back, 2:17.64

ande
June 11th, 2012, 10:27 AM
No
I was in heat 54 lane 1
Aussie was in 56 and german in 57
I split it 4:30.55 , 4:31.76
And they split it 426,434
Over 100 scratches in the mens race

Hey Steve,

Congratulations.
Excellent swim, great splitting
3 UNRUH Steven 45-49 USA 54 1 1
31.74 1:05.86
2:14.27
3:22.32
4:30.55
5:38.16
6:45.88
7:53.79
9:02.31
not bad for a guy who went through shoulder surgery.
good luck with the rest of your races in that massive meet

Ande

sunruh
June 11th, 2012, 11:31 AM
Hey Steve,

Congratulations.
Excellent swim, great splitting
3 UNRUH Steven 45-49 USA 54 1 1
31.74 1:05.86
2:14.27
3:22.32
4:30.55
5:38.16
6:45.88
7:53.79
9:02.31
not bad for a guy who went through shoulder surgery.
good luck with the rest of your races in that massive meet

Ande

Thanks Ande
I wish i could post a pic of "the mosh pit" that was the 5 25m lanes of warmup for the 100 free
Part of it was walking only
Over 2hrs behind schedule when i swam in heat 105..... Got 6th 55.85
The guyfrom france that won was lezak sized 53.94 is wow

Adam Barley
June 11th, 2012, 12:31 PM
An absolutely comical number of swims aren't meeting the cut-off time to be included in the results. No wonder the meet is lasting so long! On the men's side, 50-60 swims in each age group are over the time limit. I guess this is the ugly side of honor system entries.

sunruh
June 11th, 2012, 12:37 PM
An absolutely comical number of swims aren't meeting the cut-off time to be included in the results. No wonder the meet is lasting so long! On the men's side, 50-60 swims in each age group are over the time limit. I guess this is the ugly side of honor system entries.

Yep 60 in my age group 100 free were over

Thats 6 heats of 10 lanes or 12min alone that should not have been taken

The mens 100 free finished at 6pm with 116 heats of 100 breast to go today

That Guy
June 11th, 2012, 12:45 PM
An absolutely comical number of swims aren't meeting the cut-off time to be included in the results. No wonder the meet is lasting so long! On the men's side, 50-60 swims in each age group are over the time limit. I guess this is the ugly side of honor system entries.

This phenomenon is not limited to swimming... :lmao: http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/page/USOpen-Reilly/bad-lies-us-open-qualifying

ElaineK
June 11th, 2012, 02:03 PM
An absolutely comical number of swims aren't meeting the cut-off time to be included in the results. No wonder the meet is lasting so long! On the men's side, 50-60 swims in each age group are over the time limit. I guess this is the ugly side of honor system entries.

Playing devil's advocate... Could the reason so many swimmers aren't making their seed times be that the warm-up conditions are so bad? Between not being able to get a proper warm-up and having to wait so long for your heat, I would think that would have a huge effect on most swimmers! :afraid:

Although I am sure there are plenty of people who fudged their seed times, I would guess there are plenty more who missed their times by a small margin, giving my theory some credibility. (I know from my own meet experiences that warm-ups, timing of my heat relative to my warm-up time, and heat/humidity conditions are some of the factors in my race performances.)

aguins
June 11th, 2012, 02:27 PM
Am I allowed to borrow a photo from facebook to put here? It's on Karlyn's facebook....a pic of the warmup pool. I've never seen anything like it. It makes Atlanta seem calm.

aguins
June 11th, 2012, 02:37 PM
I figure as long a I give credit, it's okay. (She set a WR in the 200 back)
From Karlyn Pipes-Neilson's facebook:

"This meet is not a carnival, it's a ZOO. Over 2,200 men warming up and cooling down in a 25-meter, five lane pool. Pure chaos."3459

ElaineK
June 11th, 2012, 02:48 PM
I figure as long a I give credit, it's okay. (She set a WR in the 200 back)
From Karlyn Pipes-Neilson's facebook:

"This meet is not a carnival, it's a ZOO. Over 2,200 men warming up and cooling down in a 25-meter, five lane pool. Pure chaos."3459

At times, it looked that bad at Greensboro. But, the numbers don't compare... What a mess!

sunruh
June 11th, 2012, 02:51 PM
I figure as long a I give credit, it's okay. (She set a WR in the 200 back)
From Karlyn Pipes-Neilson's facebook:

"This meet is not a carnival, it's a ZOO. Over 2,200 men warming up and cooling down in a 25-meter, five lane pool. Pure chaos."3459

That pic shows it empty

When i was in "the mosh pit" it was standing 7 deep at the wall and you walked about 10m of each 25
In a 500 i did 1 flip turn

8:54 pm and only 50 more heats of 100 breast

knelson
June 11th, 2012, 03:07 PM
8:54 pm and only 50 more heats of 100 breast

Now we know why the meet was scheduled close to the summer solstice!

Allen Stark
June 11th, 2012, 03:15 PM
It looks like Tim Shead broke the WR in the 60-64 100m BR in 1:14.32.Congrats Tim:cheerleader: .

sunruh
June 11th, 2012, 03:47 PM
It looks like Tim Shead broke the WR in the 60-64 100m BR in 1:14.32.Congrats Tim:cheerleader: .

Awesome

Heat 102 at 9:45pm

ElaineK
June 11th, 2012, 04:16 PM
Heat 102 at 9:45pm

:cry: :bed:

You deserve a gold medal for patience.

Allen Stark
June 11th, 2012, 04:27 PM
I have been looking forward to Worlds at Montreal,and I still am I guess,but after reading this I'm not so sure.I believe there were 4500 swimmers at Stanford,so with 4 warmup pools and a smaller number it went relatively smoothly.I doubt Montreal will get 8500,but 6000 is a reasonable prediction I guess.How many pools will Montreal have?

WPSWIMS
June 11th, 2012, 04:32 PM
Omaha is looking real good for warmups, plus I get to swim in the 65plus warm up lane! So glad it is only an 8 hour drive from Denver.

That Guy
June 11th, 2012, 04:43 PM
I have been looking forward to Worlds at Montreal,and I still am I guess,but after reading this I'm not so sure.I believe there were 4500 swimmers at Stanford,so with 4 warmup pools and a smaller number it went relatively smoothly.I doubt Montreal will get 8500,but 6000 is a reasonable prediction I guess.How many pools will Montreal have?

Here it is: http://binged.it/LSnJat

Worlds Survival Guide
1. Warmup and warmdown elsewhere
2. Don't enter the last event of the day
3. What am I missing?

Swimosaur
June 11th, 2012, 04:43 PM
How many pools will Montreal have?

Montreal has two 50 meter outdoor pools. Here (http://goo.gl/maps/rhJb) is a satellite image of the facility. It looks like the diving well is about 25 x 25 meters, and could be used for warmups. I don't know about that funky-shaped section of the center pool. I don't see anything else in the neighborhood that looks like a pool.

ElaineK
June 11th, 2012, 05:33 PM
I have been looking forward to Worlds at Montreal,and I still am I guess,but after reading this I'm not so sure.I believe there were 4500 swimmers at Stanford,so with 4 warmup pools and a smaller number it went relatively smoothly.I doubt Montreal will get 8500,but 6000 is a reasonable prediction I guess.How many pools will Montreal have?

You're going to Montreal? :applaud: I hope you're bringing Carol! We'll have to go to dinner together the night before your 200m breaststroke, so you can break another world record. Remember last time? You broke the world record the following day, after your spaghetti carbo load! :banana:

Stalyvegas
June 11th, 2012, 05:41 PM
Hi All,
I'm Phil from Stalybridge swimming club in England and I watch with great interest US Masters swimming,mainly because in general you guys are the best in the world and set some amazing times at all age groups.I very nearly entered this event but at the last minute I decided against.It would have been nice to meet some of you superstars and pick up a few tips.The event sounds a bit too big for its own good and as there are many opportunities for swimmers to compete regularly in their own country I think a qualifying time that has to be verified would be the best solution.Masters swimming seems to be getting bigger and faster each year so the original concept of encouraging all ages and standards to participate should be relaxed for an event that only occurs every two years.Although the conditions sound difficult I hope you will enjoy your vist to Europe and go back home with some fast times and good memories.

Good luck with the rest of the meet.

Phil

ElaineK
June 11th, 2012, 05:41 PM
Here it is: http://binged.it/LSnJat

Worlds Survival Guide
1. Warmup and warmdown elsewhere
2. Don't enter the last event of the day
3. What am I missing?
4. Bring your patience and pillow :bed:

Chris Stevenson
June 11th, 2012, 06:38 PM
Awesome

Heat 102 at 9:45pm

It ended at 10:30 with Heat 130. (I had to stay to the bitter end to take measurements of the indoor pool so the times would count for USMS.)

Warmup is essentially nonexistent. The only exception is to use the 25m pool during the pre-meet warmup. But we proly won't swim until mid-afternoon tomorrow, so that's of limited help.

The stands were absolutely packed even at 10 pm for the swimming, never seen anything like it. Lots of Italian breaststrokers (with friends cheering), seems like some heats had 8-9 ITA swimmers.

I just don't see Montreal with 6000. Where would they come from? How many masters swimmers in Canada? Roughly 3000 swimmers here are Italian, more than have ever attended a USMS nationals, and about the same number from other European countries. Worlds at Stanford was within driving distance of the two most populous LMSCs in USMS and didn't come close to 6000.

I mIght be wrong, of course. One doesn't come to such a meet with the primary goal of swimming fast, IMO.

Edward The Head
June 11th, 2012, 09:03 PM
That's amazing. When I was there in 2004 I don't remember it being so bad. I remember there being room in the warm up pools to swim, but then I don't think we had anywhere near 6000 people.

I ended up not qualifying for one time, but I think a lot of that was because I spent 8+ hours on the bus to Venice the day before.

Guess I'm glad I didn't try and go this year.

sunruh
June 12th, 2012, 03:30 AM
It ended at 10:30 with Heat 130. (I had to stay to the bitter end to take measurements of the indoor pool so the times would count.

Thats totally nuts!

Its no longer about being the fastest but the freshest!
If thats even possible

I am swimming later in the day here than i do at 530am back home, just the sun is all wrong

aguins
June 12th, 2012, 08:07 AM
This is why Stanford worked (see attached)3460

pwb
June 12th, 2012, 01:14 PM
How many pools will Montreal have?


Montreal has two 50 meter outdoor pools. Here (http://goo.gl/maps/rhJb) is a satellite image of the facility. It looks like the diving well is about 25 x 25 meters, and could be used for warmups. I don't know about that funky-shaped section of the center pool. I don't see anything else in the neighborhood that looks like a pool.

Having just been to Montreal recently, the good news is that there are plenty of other pools in relative proximity to Parc Jean-Drapeau where you could grab a warmup before heading over to the meet facility. The facility is where they held the 2005 FINA World Championships and, based upon what I've heard (though not yet swum there personally), it'll be a great place to race.

If the meet gets to be really large, a simply AWESOME idea (you heard it hear first) would be to have a shuttle running between Jean-Drapeau and Olympic Park (9km drive) and keep the 76 Olympic Pool (and its warmup pool) open for continuous warmups. If you had a shuttle running on the half an hour (it's probably only a 20-25 minute drive even in traffic), that would be awesome.

However, I agree with Chris ...


I just don't see Montreal with 6000. Where would they come from? How many masters swimmers in Canada? Roughly 3000 swimmers here are Italian, more than have ever attended a USMS nationals, and about the same number from other European countries. Worlds at Stanford was within driving distance of the two most populous LMSCs in USMS and didn't come close to 6000.

I might be wrong, of course. One doesn't come to such a meet with the primary goal of swimming fast, IMO.... with adding the other reason that USMS swimmers will have a Nationals LCM option that summer as well. I think we'll get more Europeans to Montreal than Stanford, both for its proximity and slightly more Euro-like culture/ambiance, but I doubt it'll be as large as Stanford was in total. I'd be surprised if it edges above 3,500 and would predict something more like 2,500. I'll be there for sure, regardless of how many people show up.

arthur
June 12th, 2012, 01:53 PM
Canadian Nationals in Montreal in 2011 had 1113 swimmers. For worlds I would guess around 1500 might sign up. I know many in BC and Alberta wouldn't travel to Montreal for nationals but would for worlds. Canadian nationals doesn't have any qualification times so some who went to Montreal probably won't go if they can't meet the qualification standards.

no200fly
June 12th, 2012, 02:33 PM
I just looked at the live results - it shows the men are on Men's 200 Fr *Heat 134*

knelson
June 12th, 2012, 02:45 PM
Canadian Nationals in Montreal in 2011 had 1113 swimmers. For worlds I would guess around 1500 might sign up.

Another consideration is short course vs. long course. It seems like more masters swimmers prefer swimming short course.

sunruh
June 12th, 2012, 02:51 PM
I think more than 3000 are italians
Guessing more like 4500
Seems like it was a national directive or loose your swim card thing

I love getting back from my 1 event at 6:30pm and its NOT the last event nor was it even over for all age groups

Steve

Ps have met so many great people here. Why cant we just have a massive party instead of a meet sometime?

Pps. It really sucks having the women at basically a different venue. No idea when they race or how they are doing just a wave or a smile is about all you can get in.

gdanner
June 12th, 2012, 03:39 PM
It appears there is a casino in Parc Jean-Drapeau :) right next to the pool.

no200fly
June 12th, 2012, 04:13 PM
It ended at 10:30 with Heat 130.

The stands were absolutely packed even at 10 pm for the swimming, never seen anything like it. Lots of Italian breaststrokers (with friends cheering), seems like some heats had 8-9 ITA swimmers.
I mIght be wrong, of course. One doesn't come to such a meet with the primary goal of swimming fast, IMO.

Masters swimming may save the European Union - the money spent on beer, pasta and fun may be enough to save the Italian economy.

Good luck on your races. I thought warm-up at Atlanta was bad. That looks horrible.

Chris Stevenson
June 12th, 2012, 04:35 PM
I thought warm-up at Atlanta was bad. That looks horrible.

It was a little better today (for me at least) in the outdoor arena (are there more lanes maybe? Didn't check.) It wasn't enough to be able to do 25s sprint or -- heavens forbid -- pace 50s, but I could sometimes get enough of a gap to do something like 10m bursts or hard SDKs, which can help with warmup.

Also, the sychro swimmers were practicing outdoors, so there was that.

I think tomorrow morning in the indoor pool is going to be the worst. 280+ heats of men's 50 free. That's about 2800 men -- and male sprinters tend to be large and make many waves -- warming up or warming down in a 4-hr block.

Today there were 29 heats of men's 200 free in my age group (45-49) alone. Yowza. I saw on the screen when heat 50 or so was swimming and saw the ages, and panicked because I thought I had mis-remembered my heat (71): no way, I thought, were there THAT many heats in my age group.


I think more than 3000 are italians
Guessing more like 4500

It really sucks having the women at basically a different venue. No idea when they race or how they are doing just a wave or a smile is about all you can get in.

I read somewhere that 40% of the swimmers were Italian, so that comes to about 3300 or so I think. But maybe I am not remembering right.

I wish they had odd heats in one pool and even heats in the other. As it is, the women's events finish much earlier than the men's, and the men's warmup pool is possibly more crowded since there are more of them here.

Rich Abrahams
June 12th, 2012, 05:17 PM
Just got an e-mail from Rich Burns. He said the men's 200 free ended at 8:45 pm and there were 220 heats of the 50 fly to go. On top of that, the 50 free is the first event tomorrow. That's a pretty quick turnaround for those swimming both, which would be a common combo I would suspect.

ElaineK
June 12th, 2012, 05:36 PM
If the meet gets to be really large, a simply AWESOME idea (you heard it hear first) would be to have a shuttle running between Jean-Drapeau and Olympic Park (9km drive) and keep the 76 Olympic Pool (and its warmup pool) open for continuous warmups. If you had a shuttle running on the half an hour (it's probably only a 20-25 minute drive even in traffic), that would be awesome.

I'll be there for sure, regardless of how many people show up.

Great idea, Patrick! I signed up here to receive e-mail updates: http://www.finamasters2014.org/ They requested I complete a survey, so I did mention the need for additional warm-up pools, in the last section of the survey. Running a shuttle between them would have been a great addition to my comment! I would suggest everybody who reads this and plans on going to sign up for the newsletter and complete the survey. Please request a shuttle!!!

I'll see you there, Patrick! :agree:

ElaineK
June 12th, 2012, 05:42 PM
Canadian Nationals in Montreal in 2011 had 1113 swimmers. For worlds I would guess around 1500 might sign up. I know many in BC and Alberta wouldn't travel to Montreal for nationals but would for worlds. Canadian nationals doesn't have any qualification times so some who went to Montreal probably won't go if they can't meet the qualification standards.

OK, I think it's about time for me to start my guess the attendance thread for 2014 Worlds. I'm sure pwb will win for the third time; he keeps rackin' them up! (:chug: or beverage-of-your-choice)

What do ya say, Patrick? :D

knelson
June 12th, 2012, 06:24 PM
OK, I think it's about time for me to start my guess the attendance thread for 2014 Worlds.

Are psych sheets out yet?

no200fly
June 12th, 2012, 06:32 PM
It was a little better today (for me at least) in the outdoor arena (are there more lanes maybe? Didn't check.) It wasn't enough to be able to do 25s sprint or -- heavens forbid -- pace 50s, but I could sometimes get enough of a gap to do something like 10m bursts or hard SDKs, which can help with warmup.

Also, the sychro swimmers were practicing outdoors, so there was that.

I think tomorrow morning in the indoor pool is going to be the worst. 280+ heats of men's 50 free. That's about 2800 men -- and male sprinters tend to be large and make many waves -- warming up or warming down in a 4-hr block.



I admire your patience. I know I wouldn’t be able to suffer through 220 heats of 50 fly. As I have gotten older I have lost most of my ability to put up with overwhelming things. Of course, I guess if you have traveled half way around the world you would feel some pressure to follow through.

Looks like you did well in the 200BK and 200FR. Are you swimming the 50 FLY?

Maybe tomorrow you can warm up with the synchro swimmers ... leg up, leg down, twirl...

no200fly
June 12th, 2012, 06:34 PM
Just got an e-mail from Rich Burns. He said the men's 200 free ended at 8:45 pm and there were 220 heats of the 50 fly to go. On top of that, the 50 free is the first event tomorrow. That's a pretty quick turnaround for those swimming both, which would be a common combo I would suspect.

Don't you wish you were there Rich?

ElaineK
June 12th, 2012, 06:37 PM
Are psych sheets out yet?

:D :banana:

Well, I'll be holding off on starting that thread until at least after 2013 LC Nationals, in Mission Viejo. But, the guesses sure are rolling in already, aren't they? I don't know who will be more accurate with their estimates: Montreal big-wigs, Chris, Patrick, Arthur, or??? My :2cents: is on Patrick; pwb has two wins so far! :cheerleader:

knelson
June 12th, 2012, 06:52 PM
For the record, here are the World Championship attendance figures from the USMS Rule Book (Appendix F):


Year Date Location Swimmers
1986 7/12–16 Tokyo, Japan 3,400
1988 10/9–16 Brisbane, Australia 3,594
1990 8/6–13 Rio de Janeiro, Brazil 1,685
1992 6/25–7/5 Indianapolis, Ind., USA 2,406
1994 6/4–10 Montreal, Canada 3,474
1996 6/23–7/2 Sheffield, England 3,837
1998 6/19–27 Casablanca, Morocco 1,954
2000 7/27–8/9 Munich, Germany 6,184
2002 3/21–4/3 Christchurch, New Zealand 2,386
2004 6/3–31 Riccione, Italy 6,306
2006 8/3–17 Stanford, Calif., USA 5,535
2008 5/15–25 Perth, Australia 5,104
2010 7/27–8/7 Goteburg and Boras, Sweden 5,233
2012 6/8–6/17 Riccione, Italy

By "swimmers" my assumption is participants in swimming, not the total number of competitors (i.e., including diving, water polo, etc.), but I could be wrong.

That Guy
June 12th, 2012, 07:07 PM
Just got an e-mail from Rich Burns. He said the men's 200 free ended at 8:45 pm and there were 220 heats of the 50 fly to go. On top of that, the 50 free is the first event tomorrow. That's a pretty quick turnaround for those swimming both, which would be a common combo I would suspect.

This post goes in the Forum Hall of Fame! :bow:

knelson
June 12th, 2012, 07:27 PM
This post goes in the Forum Hall of Fame! :bow:

You just haven't learned to think like a sprinter yet, have you?

The Fortress
June 12th, 2012, 07:41 PM
You just haven't learned to think like a sprinter yet, have you?

Bah!

I'm a night owl and swimming at 10:30 pm still seems unappealing. Can you be ready to race an event at Worlds and then, boom, go right to sleep minutes later? I'd be up a long time after ...

I'd like to go to Montreal. But I'd prefer a somewhat smaller meet. Carnival atmosphere? Yes. Complete zoo? No thanks.

That Guy
June 12th, 2012, 07:43 PM
You just haven't learned to think like a sprinter yet, have you?
I thought I had, but then Rich really kicked things up a notch! He has raised the standard for years to come.

Rykno
June 13th, 2012, 04:39 AM
I just scanned the results and there seems to be a large number of NT (no time) from people not making the qualifying time. Well over 50 men in the 200fr 40-44. That's 10 heats or nearly 30-40 minutes extra for one age group.

Maybe it's time to remove individual registration and require each country to submit times. For each NT the country would have to show an official result proving the time was met in the past two years or pay a fine?

I know some who just qualified might miss the QT at worlds because training hasn't been going well, sickness or jetlag. But there seems to be a large percent of NTs from Italian swimmers.

sunruh
June 13th, 2012, 06:22 AM
Yes saw an entire heat that was NT or dns

Its 12:15pm and they are getting close to finishing the 50 free for men.
Thats almost 5 hrs of 50 free

Talked with a few from RSA and Peru and Russia this morning at the "other" pool. That was interesting.
And the water was very cold to me - 72ish and goosebumps if you stopped

knelson
June 13th, 2012, 10:16 AM
Maybe it's time to remove individual registration and require each country to submit times. For each NT the country would have to show an official result proving the time was met in the past two years or pay a fine?

I guess the question is: how many swimmers is too many? I'm sure for the meet hosts it's the more the merrier. They must be rakin' in the dough! And it's a good thing for the meet to make money to ensure the event continues and there's continued interest in hosting the meet.

Allen Stark
June 13th, 2012, 11:19 AM
I have mixed feelings about the whole NT thing.My wife had a sore shoulder before Stanford and had a NT. I was upset that it was like she didn't swim.We had a woman in the 80-84 age group who I think finished 3rd and got NT.
ON the other hand if you have QTs and many swimmers are getting NTs in a huge meet maybe something needs to change.
USMS needs to find out what Italy is doing though ,since this much local participation is amazing.

knelson
June 13th, 2012, 11:27 AM
I have mixed feelings about the whole NT thing.My wife had a sore shoulder before Stanford and had a NT. I was upset that it was like she didn't swim.We had a woman in the 80-84 age group who I think finished 3rd and got NT.

Yes, that does sort of suck. Perhaps a better way to do it would be to still list the times for all swimmers who finished legally, but put an "X" for their placement.


USMS needs to find out what Italy is doing though ,since this much local participation is amazing.

Agreed! Hopefully Mr. Butcher is taking notes over there! I have a feeling one difference is the party atmosphere the Italians enjoy. The Italians really know how to swim AND have a good time. All that vacation time doesn't hurt, either. Can you imagine how many more American would make it to Nationals if we all had at least four weeks of paid vacation per year?

smontanaro
June 13th, 2012, 11:32 AM
I have a feeling one difference is the party atmosphere the Italians enjoy. The Italians really know how to swim AND have a good time. All that vacation time doesn't hurt, either.

Nothing like a big party to take your mind off your country's/continent's financial problems, if only for a little while... :D

Skip

ande
June 13th, 2012, 12:46 PM
FINA World Masters Championships: Six World Records Fall on Day Two (http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/Masters/30799.asp?q=FINA-World-Masters-Championships:-Six-World-Records-Fall-on-Day-Two)
June 11, 2012

gull
June 13th, 2012, 12:46 PM
Wow. That was close.

M45-49 100 Fly

1. Andrea ITA. 1:00.18
2. Stevenson USA 1:00.23
3. Unruh USA. 1:00.32

Great swimming!

jaadams1
June 13th, 2012, 01:13 PM
All that vacation time doesn't hurt, either. Can you imagine how many more American would make it to Nationals if we all had at least four weeks of paid vacation per year?

I'm up to 2 weeks a year, but day to day stuff with kids (and swim meets) whittle that down quickly. Another 1 1/2 years (completion of the 9th year) at work and I'll be at 3 weeks of vacation.

And don't get me started on the maternity/paternity PAID LEAVE that other countries offer as well! :bitching: Yeah, we get the leave here in the U.S., but unpaid!!!

Rich Abrahams
June 13th, 2012, 01:59 PM
This post goes in the Forum Hall of Fame! :bow:

Hey That Guy, thanks for the honor. That makes a hat trick for Halls of Fame this year!

On the issue of all the NT's, I agree that proving qual. times is not realistic. However, disqualifying a NT swimmer from their next event might have some swimmers thinking twice about entering unrealistic times. This could reduce the length of the meet and wouldn't necesarily cause a much smaller meet from the organizers' perspective.

sunruh
June 13th, 2012, 02:10 PM
Hey That Guy, thanks for the honor. That makes a hat trick for Halls of Fame this year!

On the issue of all the NT's, I agree that proving qual. times is not realistic. However, disqualifying a NT swimmer from their next event might have some swimmers thinking twice about entering unrealistic times. This could reduce the length of the meet and wouldn't necesarily cause a much smaller meet from the organizers' perspective.

Chris and i were discussing this before the 100 fly, i remember once a meet in City of Industry Hills where every .1 sec over that you were over the qual time was a dime (or $1 per sec) and you were out of the meet until you paid or proved.

Water Rat
June 13th, 2012, 02:16 PM
How have I missed this post?! Its just after 8pm here and I have another 100 heats to go before I swim my final event, the 50 breast. I'm not even remotely tired or warmed up but I'm psyched. Its been an amzing meet for me and the entire experience is great. Its a total party here. We stayed late last night drinking beer and watching 200+ heats of 50 fly. I love how big it is. I don't mind the long waits between events. Its time to peace out and relax. I'm afraid I'll feel like Montreal is a bust if only half the swimmers show. I dont care about warmup but then I'm a sprinter (yes, I am) so I just need to get wet and then warm my legs up in compression tights. Plus its great to really feel like you're competing against the World and not just a continent. I'd gladly trade warmup time for that experience. I think Montreal w-ill really draw. This masters swimming thing is snowballing! Look out!

Recommendations for USMS
- serve beer and encourage people to stay later than their events
- tweet from the coaches. Its hard to communicate. I get more info from this website than I do here.

Adam Barley
June 13th, 2012, 02:20 PM
I asked a friend of mine at the meet about all the NT swims, he said the biggest drawback is that if you go your seed time, there's no one to race. He went marginally faster than his seed in the 200 free and finished 10+ seconds ahead of most of the heat.

He also said there's a rumor going around that after Montreal, master's worlds may be held at the same venue immediately after the FINA world championships, meaning they would probably have to be smaller and the qualification standards tightened. I'm guessing this is just talk, but wouldn't it be interesting if it was true? I doubt they'd get 8000 swimmers in Kazan, Russia.

sunruh
June 13th, 2012, 02:40 PM
I asked a friend of mine at the meet about all the NT swims, he said the biggest drawback is that if you go your seed time, there's no one to race. He went marginally faster than his seed in the 200 free and finished 10+ seconds ahead of most of the heat

I posted in another thread about all the fake times.

How does a 30minflat time for a 3k openwater sound?
Or 2 more at 33min

And none of those 3 were in the 800m

Water Rat
June 13th, 2012, 02:53 PM
Its 8:50pm. 50 more heats to go and MY SUIT RIPS!

Bye bye brand new fastskin3. It was great while it lasted. Let's see what ur B70 neroXII can do!

knelson
June 13th, 2012, 02:53 PM
I guess you've got your sandbaggers and your reverse sandbaggers.

That Guy
June 13th, 2012, 02:57 PM
I posted in another thread about all the fake times.

How does a 30minflat time for a 3k openwater sound?


That's easy, I can do that!

* in a swift river

sunruh
June 13th, 2012, 03:13 PM
Its 8:50pm. 50 more heats to go and MY SUIT RIPS!

Bye bye brand new fastskin3. It was great while it lasted. Let's see what ur B70 neroXII can do!

Dollars per meters swam in it was?

Loving my tyr ap12
It has gone 1200m so far and many hours of sitting in it

Steve

Water Rat
June 13th, 2012, 03:19 PM
Dollars per meters swam in it was?

Loving my tyr ap12
It has gone 1200m so far and many hours of sitting in it

Steve
Steve, Steve, Steve, we don't do that math. It will just make me cry. But uh...450 meters. 4 PBs though in 4 races!

The Fortress
June 13th, 2012, 03:23 PM
Steve, Steve, Steve, we don't do that math. It will just make me cry. But uh...450 meters. 4 PBs though in 4 races!

Did you not read the negative press about all the suit rips with the FS3s? I'll be interested to see how you like it compared to the new B70 jammer.

I guess your mid-D training works better for long course sprinting than short course sprinting. C'mon, you know you love the 200 free now that you've collected some bling!

Water Rat
June 13th, 2012, 03:29 PM
Did you not read the negative press about all the suit rips with the FS3s? I'll be interested to see how you like it compared to the new B70 jammer.

I guess your mid-D training works better for long course sprinting than short course sprinting. C'mon, you know you love the 200 free now that you've collected some bling!
I'm def calling Patty Kast when I get back to see if there's any kind of warranty but I doubt it.
And fort, you know I'll never admit that...publicly. ;)
Incidentally, here's a pic of the crowd at 930pm. Standing room only.
Gotta go. 20 heats to go. Back to Maroon5...don't judge! :)

smontanaro
June 13th, 2012, 03:33 PM
Steve, Steve, Steve, we don't do that math. It will just make me cry. But uh...450 meters. 4 PBs though in 4 races!

That would be a better metric - $/PB. Looks like you got your money's worth to me. :D

qbrain
June 13th, 2012, 03:34 PM
I dont care about warmup but then I'm a sprinter (yes, I am)

You don't have to convince anyone here what you truly are. The fear of tapering, the addiction to short rest sets, actually capable of swimming a 200... yep definitely a sprinter.

knelson
June 13th, 2012, 03:38 PM
Let's see what ur B70 neroXII can do!

I'm not too surprised your FS 3 ripped. I am somewhat surprised you've got a B70 Nero XII as a backup!

sunruh
June 13th, 2012, 03:44 PM
Steve, Steve, Steve, we don't do that math. It will just make me cry. But uh...450 meters. 4 PBs though in 4 races!

I know i know

Hey 4 pb'sis pretty awesome congrats!

Im 3 of 4

Ps i have a b70 as a backup as well brand new, but its not mine its a friends that he will wear in omaha

swimcat
June 13th, 2012, 04:11 PM
That's amazing. When I was there in 2004 I don't remember it being so bad. I remember there being room in the warm up pools to swim, but then I don't think we had anywhere near 6000 people.

I ended up not qualifying for one time, but I think a lot of that was because I spent 8+ hours on the bus to Venice the day before.

Guess I'm glad I didn't try and go this year.

i was there in 2004. there were 7000 all toll including the other water sports. I missed one of my times got a NT bc when i went off the blk, i had an asthma attack and swam the 200 IM like a practice swim. glad not there this time whatta zoo

swimcat
June 13th, 2012, 04:22 PM
Italy actively recruited for this meet. Lots of europeans taking holidays right now too. They are way more layed back about these meets than americans. World qualifying times are generous. I think they wants lots of folks because that equals money. I doubt Canada will be as big. But who knows?
I have learned to stay out of breastroke events in europe. You wanna win gals go with the 200 fly or distance. Everybody in europe swims breasstroke.
Somebody went 1.15 WR. (100 Br) in my age group yesterday. My coaches response was incredulous.

The Fortress
June 13th, 2012, 05:01 PM
I'm not too surprised your FS 3 ripped. I am somewhat surprised you've got a B70 Nero XII as a backup!

I'm not surprised. If you're doing a taper travel meet, you need a good back up suit! I have two. :D The B70 obviously worked just as well for Mark as he just took 1.3 seconds off his 50 breast PR.

Mark, no warranty at all on tech suits. Many places won't accept returns at all even if you've just tried it on.

Swimcat, Monica Caro's breaststroke times were amazing for a 50 year old.

sunruh
June 13th, 2012, 05:20 PM
11:20pm and still on the 50 breast

Chris Stevenson
June 13th, 2012, 05:25 PM
11:20pm and still on the 50 breast

No, the meet's over, the last heat swam at about 11pm. Stands were still packed at the end.

sunruh
June 13th, 2012, 05:34 PM
No, the meet's over, the last heat swam at about 11pm. Stands were still packed at the end.

Realtime updates arent then

Water Rat
June 13th, 2012, 05:39 PM
I have learned to stay out of breastroke events in europe. You wanna win gals go with the 200 fly or distance. Everybody in europe swims breasstroke.
Somebody went 1.15 WR. (100 Br) in my age group yesterday. My coaches response was incredulous.
That is for sure. I thought I was the only one thinking it. The breaststroke depth is incredible here

Water Rat
June 13th, 2012, 05:42 PM
I'm not surprised. If you're doing a taper travel meet, you need a good back up suit! I have two. :D The B70 obviously worked just as well for Mark as he just took 1.3 seconds off his 50 breast PR..
I just cldnt decide between the two so I took both. The FSR fit much better but the result in the B70 was well ridiculous.

swimcat
June 13th, 2012, 08:28 PM
I was toldby germans and italians, they learn breaststroke first then free.
I think monica coro was an ex national team

I am in bed by 11. Could not have swam that late

knelson
June 13th, 2012, 11:37 PM
I am in bed by 11. Could not have swam that late

Yeah, but 11:00 p.m. in Italy is 5:00 Eastern time and 2:00 Pacific!

gdanner
June 14th, 2012, 08:52 AM
I was toldby germans and italians, they learn breaststroke first then free.


Interesting. The kick is so unnatural, but the arms and lifting your head up to breathe is pretty easy (compared to side to side in free).

knelson
June 14th, 2012, 10:14 AM
Interesting. The kick is so unnatural, but the arms and lifting your head up to breathe is pretty easy (compared to side to side in free).

Breaststroke was the original racing stroke in the Western world.

In the Western world, the front crawl was first seen in a swimming race held in 1844 in London, where it was swum by Native North Americans, who easily defeated all the British breaststroke swimmers.[3][4] However, the English gentlemen considered this style, with its considerable splashing, to be barbarically "un-European". The British continued to swim only the breaststroke in competition.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_crawl#History

Now that takes balls. You get blown out of the water, but claim the other guy's stroke is barbaric. Ain't racism great?

ande
June 14th, 2012, 10:45 AM
FINA World Masters Championships:
Ten World Records Fall on Days Three and Four --
June 13, 2012 (http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/Masters/30818.asp?q=FINA-World-Masters-Championships:-Ten-World-Records-Fall-on-Days-Three-and-Four)

2012 Fina World Masters Championships (http://www.finamasters2012.org/)
Riccone, Italy

Swimming Schedule: Start Lists & Results (http://95.110.194.230/index.htm)

knelson
June 14th, 2012, 12:27 PM
It is better described as elitism.

I'm not sure. It sounds like the crawl stroke was finally embraced when Trudgen learned it and coupled it with a scissor kick. So the English finally embraced it when another Englishman started using it.

PatrickJM
June 14th, 2012, 08:15 PM
I'm hoping there's a mild current in the St Lawrence River in Montreal so we can warm-up swimming in place. Everyone should have plenty of room. Stay upstream of the moose crossing though.

ElaineK
June 14th, 2012, 11:09 PM
I'm hoping there's a mild current in the St Lawrence River in Montreal so we can warm-up swimming in place. Everyone should have plenty of room. Stay upstream of the moose crossing though.

:lmao:

Awww, Patrick, moose may be mean, but surely you can out swim 'em with that backstroke of yours! :bolt:

White Lightning
June 15th, 2012, 04:32 AM
Just got an e-mail from Rich Burns. He said the men's 200 free ended at 8:45 pm and there were 220 heats of the 50 fly to go. On top of that, the 50 free is the first event tomorrow. That's a pretty quick turnaround for those swimming both, which would be a common combo I would suspect.


Agreed.
I had heard the women were finishing early, but wasn't sure about the men, so I came down from Rimini early. Ended up waiting until 10:00 P.M. to swim the 50 fly, struggling all day to find some decent shade to rest. It was fun under the lights with the crowd, but I put up a below average time for me.
I decided to bag the 50 free and 50 breast the next day. Opted to enjoy the strand in Rimini before heading back home through the Alps. One of the best swimming decisions I have ever made.

Midas
June 15th, 2012, 12:33 PM
Congrats to my boys Rich Burns, Ken Frost, Greg Tull and Tate Holt of Tamalpais Aquatic Masters for their World Record in the Men's 240-279 200 Medley Relay! Great job guys.