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View Full Version : Importance of second kick in butterfly?



philoswimmer
June 14th, 2012, 01:20 PM
How important is the second kick? I'd like to hear what others think, but unfortunately, "second" is not an allowable search term on the forums ("too common").

Personally, I am starting to think that it is very important.

norascats
June 14th, 2012, 01:51 PM
The second dolphin is the up kick that gets your shoulders above the water so you can bring them across.

fmracing
June 14th, 2012, 02:15 PM
What ^^ said... gets you up out of the water for another cycle.

geochuck
June 14th, 2012, 02:46 PM
I prefer a big first kick then a smaller second kick. When I explain it to the any one, it is BOOM, boom. I have seen swimmers who do a one beat, a two beat or a three beat dolphin. The sucessful mostly do a two beat dolphin

smontanaro
June 14th, 2012, 03:24 PM
... unfortunately, "second" is not an allowable search term on the forums ("too common").

I will let other more expert people comment on its importance but suggest you just use Google. Search for

site:forums.usms.org butterfly second kick

or similar, and see if that does a better job.

Cheers,

Skip

Fins25
June 14th, 2012, 09:27 PM
I think the 2 kick is not only important for propulsion but also for the timing of the stroke. It helps me with my rhythm.

geochuck
June 14th, 2012, 11:24 PM
Here is a post I made in 2004
breaststroke, then somebody did the over the top recovery hence butterfly with a frog kick... in 1952 I saw Matt Mann jr (I think the third) do the butterfly using what he called the fish tail kick with one huge beat.... walla then they added another beat they called it the dolphin kick. Hence butterfly, my favorite other stroke.

taruky
June 15th, 2012, 08:51 AM
Here is a post I made in 2004
breaststroke, then somebody did the over the top recovery hence butterfly with a frog kick... in 1952 I saw Matt Mann jr (I think the third) do the butterfly using what he called the fish tail kick with one huge beat.... walla then they added another beat they called it the dolphin kick. Hence butterfly, my favorite other stroke.

Funny you write this, because thinking of the breast stroke as a modified butterfly has helped my breast stroke immensely.

philoswimmer
June 15th, 2012, 11:55 AM
I think the 2 kick is not only important for propulsion but also for the timing of the stroke. It helps me with my rhythm.

Yes, me too. Or to put the point another way, when I am not able to get a strong second kick in, my rhythm is off.

I seem to recall that when I first learned butterfly many years ago, the MO was to put most of the emphasis on the first kick and to let your legs just follow the undulation for the second one. It's seems as though that thinking has changed (like just about everything else!)

steph2kids
June 19th, 2012, 02:17 PM
I think some very smooth butterfliers can make that second kick look so smoothe that it SEEMS they're not kicking a second time, but they are. Whatever you do, like the others say, you have to do SOMETHING of a second kick within the rhythm of the stroke to get your upper body up and over successfully.

Herb
June 28th, 2012, 12:04 AM
Is it possible to have a 2nd kick and not know it?

pretty sure I had it in age group but as far as I can tell I am now down to one in my 2nd career. A coach told me I am doing it but I can't feel anything. ????

Seems it might be close to impossible to swim the stroke correctly without it but it all happens so fast I can never break it down. My legs and kick in general are now so weak that maybe it has reduced to a small portion of a kick or something??

geochuck
June 28th, 2012, 11:19 AM
Take a video in slow motion I am sure you will find it. If not add it.


Is it possible to have a 2nd kick and not know it?

pretty sure I had it in age group but as far as I can tell I am now down to one in my 2nd career. A coach told me I am doing it but I can't feel anything. ????

Seems it might be close to impossible to swim the stroke correctly without it but it all happens so fast I can never break it down. My legs and kick in general are now so weak that maybe it has reduced to a small portion of a kick or something??

Yosemite
July 12th, 2012, 08:44 PM
In a sprint, the extra speed is worth the energy expended for a second kick. But when I swim 1,000 yards of non-stop butterfly, I will only kick once, hard. What is a sprint depends on the swimmer I would say. But I am no expert.