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View Full Version : Paddle vs Propellor - Science of Swimming (+ New Swimmer)



Ryn
June 20th, 2012, 09:04 AM
Hi All,

I've been lurking for a while and decided to become a member to become more active, even though I'm not a US Masters Swimmer nor do I even live in North America. The primary reason I decided to join up is that I've not been able to find a European community with as much know-how as this one. More acutely, I've just come across a nice piece of research that I think will serve to act as a good topic for discussion. So, thanks for having me and without further ado:

http://releases.jhu.edu/2012/06/19/paddle-vs-propeller-which-olympic-swimming-stroke-is-superior/


A team supervised by a Johns Hopkins fluid dynamics expert has found that the deep catch stroke, resembling a paddle, has the edge over sculling, the bent-arm, propeller-inspired motion.

Question: what does this mean for the vaunted high-elbow catch?

arthur
June 20th, 2012, 10:52 AM
Hi All,

I've been lurking for a while and decided to become a member to become more active, even though I'm not a US Masters Swimmer nor do I even live in North America. The primary reason I decided to join up is that I've not been able to find a European community with as much know-how as this one. More acutely, I've just come across a nice piece of research that I think will serve to act as a good topic for discussion. So, thanks for having me and without further ado:

http://releases.jhu.edu/2012/06/19/paddle-vs-propeller-which-olympic-swimming-stroke-is-superior/



Question: what does this mean for the vaunted high-elbow catch?
Welcome to the forums. I read the article and watched the video. The sculling style of swimming with the deliberate S pull he talks about that was popular in the 60s and 70s has not been recommended for a while. It looks like he has verified it is not efficient with his computer model. Most high level swimmers who swim with the high elbow, early vertical forearm style try to pull as straight as possible.

ande
June 20th, 2012, 11:06 AM
the high elbow is alive & well, even with a straight arm pull

Don't think too much
watch the best in the world &
copy what they do

Michael Phelps freestyle multi angle camera - YouTube


Eamon Sullivan Underwater Slow Motion - YouTube

ande

knelson
June 20th, 2012, 11:41 AM
Question: what does this mean for the vaunted high-elbow catch?

I think it verifies it. The idea of a high-elbow catch is to get your hand and forearm into a position that is perpendicular to you direction of motion as quickly as possible so that you can maximize the backward force (drag) of your pull.

That Guy
June 20th, 2012, 12:47 PM
Do not think too much
watch the best in the world &
copy what they do


Fixed. Now it's a haiku! :banana:

__steve__
June 20th, 2012, 03:07 PM
my avitar describes an example

Ryn
June 20th, 2012, 03:15 PM
Thanks guys. I'm new to swimming, but quite serious about getting better and it's sometimes hard to filter out the noise and make out what's really going on. I'm videotaping myself in the pool (not in dirty way, not yet) to see if how I'm feeling really is how I'm moving. Turns out it's not, so there is plenty of room for improvement. Lurking here has been a big help, and so have the Go Swim drills and other Youtube materials.

The quoted research to me seemed to claim that a vertical straight arm was *better* than the high elbow, but apparently I misunderstood. Thanks for clearing that up!

smontanaro
June 20th, 2012, 03:19 PM
... it's sometimes hard to filter out the noise ...

Despite what other people might suggest there is no noise here. It's all signal. Sometimes you just have to apply the proper convolution filter to see that. :D

Welcome...

That Guy
June 20th, 2012, 04:01 PM
Despite what other people might suggest there is no noise here. Type louder!

__steve__
June 20th, 2012, 04:22 PM
That's not noise, it's feedback.

rock and roll ..

knelson
June 20th, 2012, 05:02 PM
The quoted research to me seemed to claim that a vertical straight arm was *better* than the high elbow, but apparently I misunderstood. Thanks for clearing that up!

I think we'd need to see a more complete summary of the results to fully understand, but the take away for me was that exaggerated sculling motions do not increase propulsion.