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knelson
June 21st, 2012, 02:12 PM
OK, I figured that title would get peoples' attention! I think this is an interesting topic and I debated posting it to the non-swimming related forum, but it is swimming related.

Anyway, here's the story. A woman in Seattle has been fighting the rule that women need to wear tops while swimming in Seattle pools. She had a double mastectomy and her contention is that the suit rubbing against her scars is very uncomfortable. The city Parks & Rec department finally decided she can swim topless--but only her:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2018485244_swimmer.html

havepoolwillswim
June 21st, 2012, 02:40 PM
This would definitely increase the popularity of the sport.

knelson
June 21st, 2012, 02:53 PM
This would definitely increase the popularity of the sport.

Allowing women with no breasts and mastectomy scars to swim topless would make the sport more popular? Gee, not sure about that.

Indianaman79
June 21st, 2012, 03:10 PM
i understand the health issues you brought up, but, from a swimming point of view - why would you want to? a suit that would cover your upper body and make you more bouyant vs a jammer?

in college i had a wart removed on my inner leg. when i would kick, i could feel the wart rubbing against my other leg so i had it removed. The sports medicine people put a clear plastic sticky thing over that part of my leg after the wart was removed to keep the area dry and to prevent rubbing. the reason i am bringing this up is because i would find a way around an uncomfortable suit that would provide more speed (like preventing the rubbing with that plastic sticky stuff i had) vs wearing a slower suit designed for men (good luck finding one that fits with womens hips).

__steve__
June 21st, 2012, 03:13 PM
If the tissue is still healing and tender to the point of requiring topless attire, perhaps she shouldn't be in the pool yet.

knelson
June 21st, 2012, 03:20 PM
the reason i am bringing this up is because i would find a way around an uncomfortable suit that would provide more speed (like preventing the rubbing with that plastic sticky stuff i had) vs wearing a slower suit designed for men (good luck finding one that fits with womens hips).

Hold the phone. Ever hear of a bikini? They make training bikinis for women, you know.


If the tissue is still healing and tender to the point of requiring topless attire, perhaps she shouldn't be in the pool yet.

As many have pointed out in the comments section for that article, aren't there other alternatives, such as swim shirts, etc.? From the story it's difficult to know if she explored other options, but there does seem to be an undercurrent that she was just looking for a fight. OTOH we haven't been in her shoes.

So presumably a rule requiring women must wear tops in the pool is due to our societal mores that women's breasts should be covered. This woman has no breasts, so why does she still need to cover her chest? Simply because she's a woman? In the big picture if we didn't have these puritanical hangups about nudity this would never have been a story.

__steve__
June 21st, 2012, 03:51 PM
At least hangup a figleaf.

knelson
June 21st, 2012, 03:54 PM
At least hangup a figleaf.

Yeah, I've got to admit I can't really imagine allowing people to swim completely nude in a public session, but I don't see the big deal about women going topless. I doubt that many would, anyway.

ourswimmer
June 21st, 2012, 04:24 PM
If the tissue is still healing and tender to the point of requiring topless attire, perhaps she shouldn't be in the pool yet.

Scars from major surgery can be painful or sensitive for years. And depending on just what she had done, she could have a pretty big scar, or scars on her back as well. It seems perfectly plausible to me that a woman would find no form of swim top tolerable even after she had recovered fully in every other way from mastectomy surgery.

wave
June 21st, 2012, 05:22 PM
I don't understand. This woman originally raised the request because of her special situation. She got what she wanted and can swim the way she wants now. Glad? Nope. Now she's asking for more. What next? Advocating for the same on behalf of non-cancer survivors?

taruky
June 21st, 2012, 06:16 PM
I don't understand. This woman originally raised the request because of her special situation. She got what she wanted and can swim the way she wants now. Glad? Nope. Now she's asking for more. What next? Advocating for the same on behalf of cancer survivors.

I fixed your post to help answer your question.

wave
June 21st, 2012, 06:35 PM
I fixed your post to help answer your question.

Sorry, but you are wrong. I did mean "non-cancer survivors". Note I said "what next". She's already advocating on behalf of the cancer survivors.

knelson
June 21st, 2012, 06:57 PM
I don't understand. This woman originally raised the request because of her special situation. She got what she wanted and can swim the way she wants now.

Yes, she can, but what about others with similar issues? As things stand now they are out of luck, or--I guess I should say--they must follow the existing rules. To me the worst possible outcome is this woman gets her own special rule that only applies to her.

Bill Sive
June 21st, 2012, 08:48 PM
Firstly, a woman with a double mastectomy, without a shirt on is not a pretty sight. I feel for the lady. I could never imagine where she is emotionally.

Secondly, I believe this woman is just seeking special treatment. There is an entire industry that has built up around women who had had a singular or double mastectomy. She can easily purchase an Mastectomy swimsuit.

http://www.exava.com/shop?lddisa=104503723&q=mastectomy+bathing+suits&gclid=CKSq-4fN4LACFQ5rhwodnm1X0w&refdisa=gsm&adid=12194405952

http://www.mastectomyshop.com/categories/Swimwear/

http://www.hapari.com/hapari-mastectomy-swimwear/

Lastly, you have to give this lady credit for being courageous enough to want to swim topless after having a double mastectomy.

__steve__
June 21st, 2012, 09:06 PM
Swimsuit manufacturers do in fact make suits specifically designed for women who've had mastectomy

wonder if she knew

knelson
June 21st, 2012, 09:35 PM
There is an entire industry that has built up around women who had had a singular or double mastectomy. She can easily purchase an Mastectomy swimsuit.

So are any of these suits actually suitable for someone who wants to swim laps seriously or are they mainly designed so women can wear prosthetics under them? Serious question--I don't know.

msgrupp
June 21st, 2012, 10:40 PM
As someone pointed out--the scar tissue can be sensitive for quite a long time after it appears to be healed. Think along the lines of someone having "phantom pain" from an amputation. The scars itch and are raised for sometime after the surgery and you've healed. Even the suits designed for post mastectomy patients can't be that comfortable.

do you think a man would want to have to stick on parts of his anatomy to look "normal" if he had something removed? The products are either stuck to the skin with a surgical tape or the roughness of the fabric in the cups can be very irritating to somewhat raw skin.

And how come most of the people responding appear to be males?

jaadams1
June 22nd, 2012, 12:21 AM
Kinda along this line, but opposite. I've seen a number of MEN that should wear some kind of top/shirt/etc. as well. Pool, backyard, beach, whatever. Sometimes they're bigger than the women, yet can go without any covering. :afraid:

havepoolwillswim
June 22nd, 2012, 01:53 AM
Allowing women with no breasts and mastectomy scars to swim topless would make the sport more popular? Gee, not sure about that.

Those are minor details which I like to avoid thinking about. I'd rather focus on the bigger picture of the title of your thread- like topless Kate Upton competing in masters.

Queen
June 22nd, 2012, 06:42 AM
Why on earth should she have to wear anything if she has no breasts, and why does it bother ANY of you? The prohibition against bare breasts is codified by law most places, she now meets the same criteria as a male swimmer.

If someones scars make you uncomfortable, that is your issue, not theirs. As far as "special treatment" goes, there isn't any being afforded, she simply meets the male standard now.

All this puritanical crap is irritating.

gobears
June 22nd, 2012, 09:27 AM
Why on earth should she have to wear anything if she has no breasts, and why does it bother ANY of you? The prohibition against bare breasts is codified by law most places, she now meets the same criteria as a male swimmer.

If someones scars make you uncomfortable, that is your issue, not theirs. As far as "special treatment" goes, there isn't any being afforded, she simply meets the male standard now.

All this puritanical crap is irritating.

Exactly.

aquageek
June 22nd, 2012, 09:51 AM
All this puritanical crap is irritating.

Maybe, maybe not, but it is no more irritating than pretending to be some liberated libertine and all Euro-fancy. Then again, this ranks high on the first world problems list.

Queen
June 22nd, 2012, 10:00 AM
Maybe, maybe not, but it is no more irritating than pretending to be some liberated libertine and all Euro-fancy. Then again, this ranks high on the first world problems list.
If you're saying I'm pretending, you're wrong. Thankfully I spent a large portion of my youth in Europe; it was great living where the human body isn't completely sexualized.

knelson
June 22nd, 2012, 10:01 AM
topless Kate Upton competing in masters.

I suspect backstroke would be her best stroke.

knelson
June 22nd, 2012, 09:11 PM
The picture in this story makes it even more clear cut in my book:
http://todayhealth.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/21/12343787-breast-cancer-survivor-can-now-swim-topless-in-seattles-public-pools?lite

She has no breasts. What's the problem?

gigi
June 22nd, 2012, 09:35 PM
The picture in this story makes it even more clear cut in my book:
http://todayhealth.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/21/12343787-breast-cancer-survivor-can-now-swim-topless-in-seattles-public-pools?lite

She has no breasts. What's the problem?

I agree totally. If the problem with topless bathing for women is a concern over exposed breasts, then this woman clearly doesn't need to wear a top.

jaadams1
June 22nd, 2012, 11:13 PM
The picture in this story makes it even more clear cut in my book:
http://todayhealth.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/21/12343787-breast-cancer-survivor-can-now-swim-topless-in-seattles-public-pools?lite

She has no breasts. What's the problem?

Not a problem. Go swim!


And from the article...

"It wouldn't be an issue for us because any woman can swim topless here," says Jodi Jay, the aquatics division program manager for the Austin, Texas Parks and Recreation Department

May have to check this out...

Thrashing Slug
June 23rd, 2012, 11:23 PM
The picture in this story makes it even more clear cut in my book:
http://todayhealth.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/21/12343787-breast-cancer-survivor-can-now-swim-topless-in-seattles-public-pools?lite

She has no breasts. What's the problem?

OK I have to take issue with the previous comment that a woman with a mastectomy is "not a pretty sight". This woman looks beautiful to me, and strong.

gobears
June 24th, 2012, 09:07 AM
OK I have to take issue with the previous comment that a woman with a mastectomy is "not a pretty sight". This woman looks beautiful to me, and strong.

QFT.

lapswimmr
June 24th, 2012, 06:25 PM
Linda McGill swam the Engklish Channel topless in 1967, She also swam the round Manhatten swim about 1974 the same way, she did not like chafing from her suits on these long swims. look her up on google she was a great swimmer and probably still is. Shes a Assuie so there probably long used to the look down under.

breastroker
June 29th, 2012, 11:57 PM
The greatest woman freestyle swimmer ever always tried to swim topless if possible, but she really wanted to race topless. Back then womens suits had to have a skirt included.

2fish&1whale
July 1st, 2012, 06:05 PM
Why on earth should she have to wear anything if she has no breasts, and why does it bother ANY of you? The prohibition against bare breasts is codified by law most places, she now meets the same criteria as a male swimmer.

If someones scars make you uncomfortable, that is your issue, not theirs. As far as "special treatment" goes, there isn't any being afforded, she simply meets the male standard now.

All this puritanical crap is irritating.
THANK YOU!
I am somewhat baffled that people on here would actually have an issue with this.This woman is athletic,wants to train,and has found that swimming gives her an outlet after going through the ordeal she endured.But having a double mastectomy traumatizes nerves and tissue-often times for ever.And thus wearing anytype of suit that fits snugly on the body,would agravate her pain.I aplaud her for persevering and finding something that gives her purpose-and seing her body should be no worse then a swimmer entering the pool with missing limbs.
Consider this-your discomfort in seing her without a full suit is going to be a fraction of what she has had to deal with in fighting cancer.

Mirabella
July 2nd, 2012, 08:49 PM
OK I have to take issue with the previous comment that a woman with a mastectomy is "not a pretty sight". This woman looks beautiful to me, and strong.
She had an excellent aesthetic result (and hopefully addressed the cancer as well) compared to what I have seen in the past (nurse).