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View Full Version : Tired mileage - worth it?



Fresnoid
July 20th, 2012, 12:42 PM
I was trying to do a distance set last night but was tired from hitting the gym earlier in the afternoon. I was going 3 seconds/100 slower than I had when recently doing the same set.

For some reason, I can't handle the same workload or recover as well at 49 as I did at 21. :cane:

My question - Does my swimming benefit from struggling through a workout like that? My intensity, effort and heart rate were comparable to when I did the set without weights first and swam much faster.

Glenn
July 20th, 2012, 01:19 PM
I don't know what your distance set was or your gym set, but yes, your recovery at 49 is different than at 21.

You can't compare the two workout days as they were very different. Just as you shouldn't compare a workout after a day at the office where you gave a three hour presentation to a group of investors.

The proof of what your workouts have done, is at the end of a taper. Right now you are working your body hard. When you give it a chance to recover, you will swim well. Trust your body. It knows better than you.

__steve__
July 20th, 2012, 01:22 PM
Supercompensation
http://www.mensjournal.com/everythin...ess-is-a-lie/4

Stolen from That's post

Don't expect much from yourself in the red zone (as seen in the wiki link)

knelson
July 20th, 2012, 01:41 PM
I think it's still worth it. Just make sure you concentrate on keeping good technique. When you're tired it's very easy to get sloppy.

Betsy
July 20th, 2012, 02:38 PM
Several years ago, I had a coach who was also an athletic trainer. When I went too many consecutive days, I had the same feeling that you have after weights. My coach asked me how it affected me mentally. If I could handle the slower repeats, okay. If it got me down too much, take a day off.
My advice is to keep swimming but be sure you are prepared for slower times. As mentioned above, when you taper you'll get the payoff. Also, your body will eventually adjust to weight workouts followed by the swim. You won't be as fast as on a rested day, but you will be better than now when you first do the double workout.

Allen Stark
July 20th, 2012, 03:04 PM
If you technique stays good,yes.If your stroke gets poor,no( unless you are overtraining,which you can usually tell by how you feel the next day and your resting heart rate.)

MickYoung
July 20th, 2012, 03:14 PM
Depends on your goals.

Probably won't help your 50 yd short course. Might even hurt.

Plan on doing swim marathons? Exactly what you need.

orca1946
July 21st, 2012, 05:34 PM
We ALL have off days combined with those workouts ,your body is telling you to take a break more often. If you like living in the red zone then go for it. Make sure you make it to 50 !!!

mcnair
July 21st, 2012, 10:21 PM
My strategy is to have a couple of focal points in the week... workouts I make sure I'm rested for b/c I want to test myself. On days when I know I'm going to be tired or worn out from too many hard days in a row, I schedule a lot of drills and some easy swimming to loosen up... still swimming, but I'm not expecting fast times.

james lucas
July 22nd, 2012, 12:21 PM
In the late 1970s and the early 1980s, massive over-work was all the rage in swimming. College teams that had been swimming 6,000 yards a day stepped up to 10,000 yards. I was lucky enough to swim before coaches were swept up by that mass hysteria, but even then, I had several seasons that were just awful because of, in hindsight, overwork - that is, overtraining. In hindsight, I say, because at the time I didn't connect the overwork with the slower times - it's sometimes hard to separate all the causes (excessive weights, or too much time in the library - or maybe it's because in my sophomore year of college I made the mistake of taking a math class, which I only belatedly learned is a leading cause of insanity). But the problems of overtraining came back to haunt me a few years ago when I first started swimming masters. After loading on the yardage for several months, I signed up for a mid-winter swimming meet; I got in the pool to warm up and was surprised that everything hurt, and I was being boiled in lactic acid, even in gentle warm-up sets. Around that time, I happened upon a chart by Doc Counselman (page 101 of a nice book, Swimming Past 50, by Mel Goldstein & Dave Tanner). It suggests that a goal of training is to push into the "fatigue" zone, and allow recovery to improve adaptation - but to avoid pushing harder, into the "failing adaptation" zone. In classic overtraining, rest will help restore the body, but the overtraining causes a loss in performance and, even after you rest and recover from the overtraining, the overtraining itself has taken a toll of performance - in other words, the training created a problem, not a benefit. For this reason, I wonder if it's wise to work past the point of failure - to hit the moment of overtraining that I hit several years ago - with the hope that the taper will fix the problem.

As we age, and as our metabolism slows, recovery takes longer, and overtraining becomes a bigger problem. There are some flaws, I think, in the high-intensity training approaches that some have favored, and some flaws in the critique of "garbage yardage," but particularly for the masters swimmer, those approaches might make more sense than the old and out-of-style approach of overload training ...

Celestial
July 22nd, 2012, 04:21 PM
While I agree that one must be careful not to over train, and also risk injury, I think there is always benefit in pushing yourself. For instance, if people stop moving when they develop arthritis, no matter how bad it hurts, if they stop moving, they will soon lose the ability to move. That being said, I also watch some of my triathlete friends - they always talk about certain times of the year when they are really ramping up the miles in & out of the pool, and how they look forward to when they taper back on the weights, because that's when their speed starts showing up. By doing weights and other strength training, increasing the distance in the pool with which you can go good quality swims without losing your stroke, you will certainly benefit at the end of the season. In fact, I personally think that after 4-6 weeks of adding in a new factor, you will acclimate & see an improvement in your strength and times. It's never easy to start something new. Just my 2:2cents:

__steve__
July 23rd, 2012, 05:59 AM
In Tour de France those riders are crazy overtrained, but they're
nearly nonhuman these days and that's what the race demands of them Can't expect anything less from worlds toughest event