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Boomerang
July 30th, 2012, 04:31 PM
Where do we find the times needed to qualify for 2013 short course and long course Nationals?

Bobinator
July 30th, 2012, 05:27 PM
I don't think they're out yet. To find them click on the "Competition" selection on the front page of the USMS site. You will find the "Nationals" selection on the pull down bar and you'll find them there when they are posted.

matysekj
July 30th, 2012, 05:44 PM
Yes, the qualifying times are dependent on the top ten times from the 3 years prior to the meet. Since the 2012 SCY top ten list is currently only a preliminary listing and LCM won't be posted for several months, the qualifying times for 2013 nationals can not be calculated yet.

orca1946
July 31st, 2012, 01:41 AM
If it goes like last year. they will be a bit FASTER than this year . OH OOOH
I had better stop eating popeye's chicken & start training now !!!

jroddin
September 18th, 2012, 03:58 PM
Qualifying times for Indy are now posted on the Meet Information page:
http://www.usms.org/comp/scnats13/

Here is a direct link to the Indy NQTs:
http://www.usms.org/comp/scnats13/nqt.pdf

And here is a direct link to the NQT FAQs:
http://www.usms.org/comp/NQT-FAQ.pdf

Jeff Roddin
USMS Championship Committee

PS. Mission Viejo NQTs should be available in late December or early January.

Bobinator
September 18th, 2012, 10:27 PM
Can a swimmer do the 1,000 and the 1,650?

jaadams1
September 19th, 2012, 12:56 AM
Can a swimmer do the 1,000 and the 1,650?

Sounds fun to me! :rolleyes: (sarcasm)

jroddin
September 19th, 2012, 08:59 AM
Can a swimmer do the 1,000 and the 1,650?

Not at this particular Nationals. There are two 8 lane courses vs Greensboro having the ability to offer two 11 lane courses.

Stay tuned for Mission Viejo, however. There are decent odds of being able to swim both the 800 and the 1500 (on separate days, too).

Jeff

orca1946
September 19th, 2012, 05:30 PM
2 distance races on the same day ??? OH MY!!! :cane:

orca1946
December 11th, 2012, 12:06 PM
It looks as if I qual for 4 events on this years time:applaud::banana:

jroddin
December 17th, 2012, 11:28 AM
Qualifying times for Mission Viejo are attached to this post. They will be available on the meet website once it is established.

Here is a direct link to the NQT FAQs:
http://www.usms.org/comp/NQT-FAQ.pdf

Jeff Roddin
USMS Championship Committee

ElaineK
December 17th, 2012, 07:29 PM
Qualifying times for Mission Viejo are attached to this post. They will be available on the meet website once it is established.

Here is a direct link to the NQT FAQs:
http://www.usms.org/comp/NQT-FAQ.pdf

Jeff Roddin
USMS Championship Committee


Thanks, Jeff! These NQT's now give me direction for my 2013 goal-setting. I am very much looking forward to Mission Viejo and going back "home" to So. Cal! :bliss:

Question: I read over the FAQ sheet, however, I do not see anything about time limits for making NQT's. If I remember right, Anna Lea said the window is two years. Is that still correct? My reason for asking is this: According to the Swimming World Conversion Utility, my SCM 100 breaststroke time at last year's St. Nick's meet (November 2011) was EXACTLY the NQT time for that event in my age group. It was my personal best time in that event, however, I have not been able to hit it since. But, would it count? Mission Viejo is in August 2013, less than two years from the date I made NQT's. If my times from that meet DO count, then I also made it in the 50 and 200 breaststroke events and get to swim six events. (I will hold off on using an appropriate Smilie until I have confirmation...)

aguins
December 17th, 2012, 08:43 PM
Anna Lea answered in a previous post like this:



ANYONE can enter Nationals, and enter up to three individual events, without meeting any qualifying times.
Swimmers who want to enter more than three individual events must meet qualifying times for those additional events.

The rationale behind these two rules is that we can still allow anyone to enter the meet, but by limiting the number of events swum by the slower swimmers, we can control the length of the meet days.

This system only works as long as everyone is honest. Beyond the first three events, swimmers are on the honor system when they enter the meet. USMS is relying on swimmers to be confident that they can actually achieve the qualifying times.

So there's the history and the rationale. Now I'm going to attempt to answer some common questions about the entry process.

Q: I can't make any of the qualifying times. Does this mean I can't go to Nationals?

A: No. Remember, anyone can enter THREE individual events without having to meet the qualifying times.


Q: When I enter Nationals, do I have to provide proof that I achieved a qualifying time?

A: No. Your entry times for Nationals are submitted on the honor system.


Q: Do I have to achieve my qualifying time in a swim meet?

A: No. You could use a time that you swam in a workout or time trial. Again, remember that this is all on the honor system.


Q: Can I submit the time that I swam 10 years ago as my qualifying time?

A: Only if you think you can still achieve that time! :)

ElaineK
December 17th, 2012, 10:57 PM
Anna Lea answered in a previous post like this:



ANYONE can enter Nationals, and enter up to three individual events, without meeting any qualifying times.
Swimmers who want to enter more than three individual events must meet qualifying times for those additional events.
Yes, I am aware of these points, as I have competed at four Nationals since joining Masters, in 2010. The only point I am unclear on is how long a qualifying time is good for. In other words, how far back from August 2013 can I go when using a qualifying time? I understand it is on the honor system, however, I would like to be 100% :angel: and do it right. And, I would like to make NQT's in all three of my core events, so I can add three more events to my list for Mission Viejo: 400 IM, 200 fly, and either 800 or 1500 free. These are new events for me and I am nowhere near making NQT's in them. But, if I earned my right to compete in them by making NQT's in my core events, then, darn it, I want to swim them! :banana:

aguins
December 17th, 2012, 11:56 PM
Anna Lea answered in a previous post like this:


Q: Can I submit the time that I swam 10 years ago as my qualifying time?

A: Only if you think you can still achieve that time! :)



I think people use times from the last 2 years but this posting from AnnaLea says 10 yrs! (.....f you think you can achieve it!) Was she kidding or is that "for real"?

Rob Copeland
December 18th, 2012, 09:31 AM
I think people use times from the last 2 years but this posting from AnnaLea says 10 yrs! (.....f you think you can achieve it!) Was she kidding or is that "for real"?At this time USMS does not validate your entered seed times against times achieved at sanctioned/recognized events. So I believe Anna Lea was kidding, somewhat.

However, your entered seed time should be realistic. For example, if you swam the 500 Free in 6:00 10 years ago and you now swim it in 8:00, out of respect for your fellow competitors and the event host please use the 8:00 seed time, even if the national qualifying standard is 7:00.

Yes, most people will use actual times achieved in the past year or 2. Some will adjust this up or down based on training, health and other factors.

knelson
December 18th, 2012, 12:00 PM
My reason for asking is this: According to the Swimming World Conversion Utility, my SCM 100 breaststroke time at last year's St. Nick's meet (November 2011) was EXACTLY the NQT time for that event in my age group. It was my personal best time in that event, however, I have not been able to hit it since.

Use the converted time and don't sweat it. Keep in mind these conversions are almost certainly determined by evaluating the times of elite USA Swimming athletes. They are strong and have great turns, therefore they are getting more "credit" for their turns than nearly all masters would. Based on this, you should expect to be closer to your short course time when swimming long course than they would.

ElaineK
December 18th, 2012, 03:53 PM
Use the converted time and don't sweat it. Keep in mind these conversions are almost certainly determined by evaluating the times of elite USA Swimming athletes. They are strong and have great turns, therefore they are getting more "credit" for their turns than nearly all masters would. Based on this, you should expect to be closer to your short course time when swimming long course than they would.

Thanks for your feedback on this, Kirk. :agree:

Karl_S
December 18th, 2012, 04:14 PM
Qualifying times for Mission Viejo are attached to this post.
Arrrrrgh! I missed the 100 free NQT by 0.02. Safely in three other events though. Oh well, pretty sure I'm not going to this meet.

orca1946
December 18th, 2012, 07:10 PM
I can't get times I did more than 3 years back ---- 10 years ???:cane:

secondheart
December 19th, 2012, 03:12 PM
Using the formula 5th time * 1.15 for qualifying times seems to bias participation in the shorter distances over the longer distances (100 vs 200). Is this intentional?

Using the qualifying times for the 100 vs the 200 breast -
Event Rankings 2012 (Long Course meters - Men)
Age 50-54 39 made the cut in the 100, 23 in the 200.
Age 55-59 35 in the 100, 26 in the 200.
Age 60-64 31 in the 100, 20 in the 200.

jroddin
December 20th, 2012, 09:09 AM
Using the formula 5th time * 1.15 for qualifying times seems to bias participation in the shorter distances over the longer distances (100 vs 200). Is this intentional?

Using the qualifying times for the 100 vs the 200 breast -
Event Rankings 2012 (Long Course meters - Men)
Age 50-54 39 made the cut in the 100, 23 in the 200.
Age 55-59 35 in the 100, 26 in the 200.
Age 60-64 31 in the 100, 20 in the 200.

A fairer question would be what percentage of the people in the Event Rankings database make the cuts for the events?

orca1946
December 22nd, 2012, 02:01 PM
I would think more as the age moves up & there are less in each older age bracket.:2cents:

secondheart
December 22nd, 2012, 08:33 PM
I would think more as the age moves up & there are less in each older age bracket.:2cents:

Thank you and Jeff Roddin for your responses.

I was showing how the qualification times in the 200 are harder relative to the 100 across multiple age groups (used 3 age group examples).

Jeff's point is for those who post times that the percentage of qualifiers will be about the same between the 100 and 200. This is true, but I contend that a 1:35.88 (100 breast 60+ time) is equivalent to a 3:33-34 for the 200 not 3:27.79. This may discourage seniors from doing the 200 as opposed to the 100 and 50. Anyway - I hope I haven't put you to:bed:

Chris Stevenson
December 24th, 2012, 05:06 PM
I contend that a 1:35.88 (100 breast 60+ time) is equivalent to a 3:33-34 for the 200 not 3:27.79. This may discourage seniors from doing the 200 as opposed to the 100 and 50.

According to the VA ratings calculator, you are correct: for a 62-year-old male the 1:35.88 time is equivalent to 3:33.76 in LCM.

http://www.vaswim.org/cgi-bin/rcalc.cgi

Of course the ratings calculator uses a much different algorithm (ie, FINA world record times in LCM) than the NQT formula.

Possibly it might discourage participation in the longer events. Then again, since one gets three "freebies" perhaps swimmers might be grateful that the shorter events have slightly easier NQTs than the longer ones in this particular case :)

secondheart
December 26th, 2012, 05:51 PM
According to the VA ratings calculator, you are correct: for a 62-year-old male the 1:35.88 time is equivalent to 3:33.76 in LCM.

http://www.vaswim.org/cgi-bin/rcalc.cgi

Of course the ratings calculator uses a much different algorithm (ie, FINA world record times in LCM) than the NQT formula.

Possibly it might discourage participation in the longer events. Then again, since one gets three "freebies" perhaps swimmers might be grateful that the shorter events have slightly easier NQTs than the longer ones in this particular case :)

Great calculator! Glad it agrees with my estimate:) (I simply used an average ratio of 200/100 times of a few 60+ top swimmers as the multiplier of 1:35.88). Maybe we should use your calculator for 200+ events based on 100 times.

orca1946
December 27th, 2012, 01:37 PM
I calculate that I will not be able to swim what the end times comes out to be ??? Old age creep is in full motion !

ElaineK
January 2nd, 2013, 06:17 PM
Thanks, Jeff! These NQT's now give me direction for my 2013 goal-setting. I am very much looking forward to Mission Viejo and going back "home" to So. Cal! :bliss:

Question: I read over the FAQ sheet, however, I do not see anything about time limits for making NQT's. If I remember right, Anna Lea said the window is two years. Is that still correct? My reason for asking is this: According to the Swimming World Conversion Utility, my SCM 100 breaststroke time at last year's St. Nick's meet (November 2011) was EXACTLY the NQT time for that event in my age group. It was my personal best time in that event, however, I have not been able to hit it since. But, would it count? Mission Viejo is in August 2013, less than two years from the date I made NQT's. If my times from that meet DO count, then I also made it in the 50 and 200 breaststroke events and get to swim six events. (I will hold off on using an appropriate Smilie until I have confirmation...)

I just received this from Jayhawk:

Here's the thread you probably remember:
http://forums.usms.org/showthread.ph...-for-Nationals (http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?13780-Qualifying-for-Nationals)

Yes, it sounds like your times from the St. Nick's meet would all count. Woo hoo!:applaud:

Her post August 13, 2009 post on that thread (#4) confirms what I was asking. :ohyeah:

Peter Cruise
January 6th, 2013, 02:34 PM
I hear the phrase "old age creep" from some of the age-groupers when I'm doing laps. They must be following this discussion...

orca1946
January 7th, 2013, 10:55 AM
O K If I use times from the last 2 years --- I can make one more event.

jroddin
January 10th, 2013, 11:35 AM
O K If I use times from the last 2 years --- I can make one more event.

ElaineK and Orca recently asked the same question about time limits. This is addressed under item 9 in the NQT FAQ. Here is a cut and paste from the FAQ (http://www.usms.org/comp/NQT-FAQ.pdf):

9. My LMSC does not always send in the meet results to the USMS national
database. Is this a problem?
The rule is that you have swum the event at the national qualifying time or faster at some
time in the past two years. You do not have to swim the event in a reported meet to the
USMS national database. You could have swum the meet at a USA Swimming meet, a YMCA
meet, a practice meet or in practice, but you should have swum the event.

ElaineK
January 10th, 2013, 02:06 PM
ElaineK and Orca recently asked the same question about time limits. This is addressed under item 9 in the NQT FAQ. Here is a cut and paste from the FAQ (http://www.usms.org/comp/NQT-FAQ.pdf):

9. My LMSC does not always send in the meet results to the USMS national
database. Is this a problem?
The rule is that you have swum the event at the national qualifying time or faster at some
time in the past two years. You do not have to swim the event in a reported meet to the
USMS national database. You could have swum the meet at a USA Swimming meet, a YMCA
meet, a practice meet or in practice, but you should have swum the event.

Thanks, Jeff. I got a clarification on that from Anna Lea in a PM. She pointed me to a past post she had written on the subject; the one I had trouble finding. :applaud: And, she also confirmed that I have qualified in all three of my breaststroke events for Mission Viejo. :ohyeah:

orca1946
January 27th, 2013, 05:23 PM
Thanks for an update on my/our question. That helps me in what I can q for .